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UI Variants: Abilities Section.


LeaserResael
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Since the post made by Pablo about the UI (if you haven't seen it, here's the link below), there has been a lot of feedback and comments made by several people both here and in reddit,

Cita

 


So I took the time to create my own End of Mission mockup, which you can see here:

KtJ853M.png

 

But after all that, I wanted to create my own variants from all the other sections of the game. As the title of this thread already suggests, I started with the abilities screen.
Most of the complains about the current UI it's the lack of information or how hidden it is, so I tried to keep both the dioramas while also showing what everyone wants to see: the abilities and their stats.

Here's the animated version of it:

The idea was to keep a similar distribution to the one we have right now, having both passives and tips on their respective sides but making them visible at all times. Then, I simply displayed the 4 abilities on the middle, showing their complete stats. When hover over one of the abilities, its video is displayed where the icon is.

As an extra, I added a button at the bottom to see the diorama without the UI on top.

Here's a few screens showing it all:
fgoNB90.png

aKa4oup.png

Lb1Keyy.png

XHhmTXv.png

Any suggestions and feedback is welcomed.

That's it for now. I'll be doing other sections of the UI too so any recommendations of what other UI variants you wanna see would be appreciated.

Edited by LeaserResael
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I'm here just for the mission screen.

I like the current UI's transparency and borderless boxes. Here's a random screenshot I already have uploaded:
afSz78F.jpg

Notice on Item Rewards, there's even no boxes. Not even lines. Each item just has its own background shade.
However, text beside loot icons is a waste of space. I very much prefer your version with icons only.

Mod rewards, I dislike both versions. On the current version, I can only see two at a time. In your version, they're in square boxes. Putting them in a square is a waste of space. They're wider than they're tall.

I like seeing squad stats without having to switch screens. Damage, kills and maybe accuracy/headshot kills when someone is subtly willing to compete. In the Index, those should be Index stats on the top here. Score banked and points you caused to drop (killing a point carrier is worth more).

Gear, I like seeing all of it. 3x3 or a single column, I don't care. But no scrolling. 2-3 lines of text beside an icon seems efficient use of space. Gear that's max rank without a focus lens shouldn't have an XP bar.

Syndicate standings are also welcome. In the current screen, gear takes up too much space. In your version, Item Rewards is too big. Remove the box and its border. Make the icons a bit smaller and put the text on top of the icon. Example:
- number of the item in the top-left corner
- Chroma Prime - bottom-right
- Systems - bottom-right, line above/below Chroma Prime. Justified right.

Notice how mods have their names and item counts seemlessly integrated into the icon. And it doesn't look cluttered. That's good design.

Edited by Uthael
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hace 1 hora, TarekMansur dijo:

Better than current one. I hope they take serious this suggestion.

Thank you!! 
Do you have any other section of the UI you'd like to see a variant of?
 

hace 55 minutos, Uthael dijo:

I like the current UI's transparency and borderless boxes. Here's a random screenshot I already have uploaded:
afSz78F.jpg

Notice on Item Rewards, there's even no boxes. Not even lines. Each item just has its own background shade.
However, text beside loot icons is a waste of space. I very much prefer your version with icons only.

Mod rewards, I dislike both versions. On the current version, I can only see two at a time. In your version, they're in square boxes. Putting them in a square is a waste of space. They're wider than they're tall.

I like seeing squad stats without having to switch screens. Damage, kills and maybe accuracy/headshot kills when someone is subtly willing to compete. In the Index, those should be Index stats on the top here. Score banked and points you caused to drop (killing a point carrier is worth more).

Gear, I like seeing all of it. 3x3 or vertical, I don't care. 2-3 lines of text beside an icon seems efficient use of space. Gear that's max rank without a focus lens shouldn't have an XP bar.

Syndicate standings are also welcome. In the current screen, gear takes up too much space. In your version, Item Rewards is too big. Remove the box and its border. Make the icons a bit smaller and put the text on top of the icon. Example:
- number of the item in the top-left corner
- Chroma Prime - bottom-right
- Systems - bottom-right, line above/below Chroma Prime. Justified right.

Notice how mods have their names and item counts seemlessly integrated into the icon. And it doesn't look cluttered. That's good design.

Thanks for taking the time to write such an in-depth reply!

I made that one trying to retain some of the concepts of DE's official proposed new End of Mission UI, which if you didn't see it, this is it:

b25e3cfd2b562d17ab311ec8cba22780.png

9f1140fbbbc63668cb9e6ffb26a6c431.png

So, to break things down into sections:
- As you can see, they're thinking of separating mission stats from the rewards, so that's why it isn't in my version.
- The same goes for the icons and boxes' sizes, I took their proposed ones and went with those. It could certainly be scaled down (both icons and boxes) to allow more space for the equipment and syndicates sections. I can see why some people might prefer more space in those two sections.
- It may not be as prominent as it is in mine, but their new boxes for gear use outlines. They're darker, but I thought that a little bit brighter would be fine.
- Mods section I made it that way to keep it consistent with the rewards/pickups sections and to also keep it consistent with DE's proposed UI (they mix everything there but all in boxes and with the same size). 

If I made the whole End of mission without following their proposed one it would most likely look different, as I would adjust the icons' sizes and more. But I tried to maintain some consistency with what they proposed.

Thanks again for your reply and if you have any suggestions about which other sections of the UI you'd like to see variants of, let me know!

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This is something that I was thinking of, so I'm glad that you were able to design a better version of it compared to what I was thinking of. Specifically:

  • The "View Diorama" checkbox was something that I was thinking of based on the demo of Pokémon Mystery Dungeon Rescue Team DX, where they have an "Admire Illustration" button where you can hide the UI elements in order to see the background illustration.
Spoiler

EPkrGhpUEAAQqmg?format=jpg&name=large

  • Someone on Reddit made a mockup of the EoM screen (and an additional person made a slight improvement on it). It looks similar to yours. I mentioned that the mod section was too small as the text would be unreadable by those who wouldn't be able to read small text and the cursor won't be able to properly hover over the mod itself to see more of those details. Your suggestion fixed it for the most part.

A number of things to note:

  • In the Abilities screen, the names of the abilities (for accessibility reasons; think dyslexic people) won't be able to read it. It should be changed into a more readable font (the font can stay on the top-left corner, though).
    • If we truly need that font to stay, though, players should have the option of changing the font to a pre-made set of fonts (a couple of sans-serif fonts, DE's default fonts, and a couple of dyslexic-friendly fonts). That way, no matter who it is, we should be able to have that information in-tact.
    • I think we can merge your UI with what DE currently has, using your "Show Diorama" checkbox: What I like about the current one is that I can focus on one ability at a time, instead of having them all reach for my attention. Using your idea where hovering over the ability to display the video works, but I don't think it's enough. I think that the way the Intrinsics menu works (where you have the name of the Intrinsic and then clicking on it flips it around in order to display more details) works the best; I can focus on one at a time, others can have them flipped all at once (of course, a toggle of displaying all of them at once or all of them flipped over when arriving to this section should be available, either in the Options menu or in the Abilities section itself).
    • I don't like where the Tips section is placed. In fact, I think that it's best if all of the tips go to the appropriate abilities tab (though, I can't think of a way to do that currently, so this should be fine for now).
    • There should be an option to make the background opaque (I don't mind it, personally, but some others may not tolerate it) in the Options menu. 
  • As I mentioned in the Reddit comment, a compromise that DE can have is that, they can have their Warframe showcase on the screen at the end of the mission, but it only lasts a few seconds (maybe 2 seconds). Then it rolls up and disappears completely, just to give more space (so basically, where your image comes in. On top of that, we can remove the "Squad Showcase" button and move it into a location that makes more sense (so that the bottom section can have another section for any additional information (example: Railjack mission-specific results)).
    • There's no logical placement where you can put the button list without ruining the consistency (I'm going by the Nintendo Switch controls; don't know the bindings for PC "'B button' = Exit"), but that's just me.
    • I disagree with Pablo with respect to syndicates. The most that people look for in terms of information are "Equipment," "Mission Rewards & Pickups," "Mods." So I think that those should be moved elsewhere (this is probably the one that people will disagree with me the most, though).

 

That's all I can think of for now. If I think of anything else, I'll update my comment, but great start! (Though, to be honest, I wish I had thought of making these UI suggestions, but now that at least 3 people have done it already, it's too late to make my own suggestions. Oh well.)

Edited by (NSW)MasterJ93
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hace 1 hora, (NSW)MasterJ93 dijo:

This is something that I was thinking of, so I'm glad that you were able to design a better version of it compared to what I was thinking of. Specifically:

  • The "View Diorama" checkbox was something that I was thinking of based on the demo of Pokémon Mystery Dungeon Rescue Team DX, where they have an "Admire Illustration" button where you can hide the UI elements in order to see the background illustration.
  Revelar contenido oculto

EPkrGhpUEAAQqmg?format=jpg&name=large

  • Someone on Reddit made a mockup of the EoM screen (and an additional person made a slight improvement on it). It looks similar to yours. I mentioned that the mod section was too small as the text would be unreadable by those who wouldn't be able to read small text and the cursor won't be able to properly hover over the mod itself to see more of those details. Your suggestion fixed it for the most part.

A number of things to note:

  • In the Abilities screen, the names of the abilities (for accessibility reasons; think dyslexic people) won't be able to read it. It should be changed into a more readable font (the font can stay on the top-left corner, though).
    • If we truly need that font to stay, though, players should have the option of changing the font to a pre-made set of fonts (a couple of sans-serif fonts, DE's default fonts, and a couple of dyslexic-friendly fonts). That way, no matter who it is, we should be able to have that information in-tact.
    • I think we can merge your UI with what DE currently has, using your "Show Diorama" checkbox: What I like about the current one is that I can focus on one ability at a time, instead of having them all reach for my attention. Using your idea where hovering over the ability to display the video works, but I don't think it's enough. I think that the way the Intrinsics menu works (where you have the name of the Intrinsic and then clicking on it flips it around in order to display more details) works the best; I can focus on one at a time, others can have them flipped all at once (of course, a toggle of displaying all of them at once or all of them flipped over when arriving to this section should be available, either in the Options menu or in the Abilities section itself).
    • I don't like where the Tips section is placed. In fact, I think that it's best if all of the tips go to the appropriate abilities tab (though, I can't think of a way to do that currently, so this should be fine for now).
    • There should be an option to make the background opaque (I don't mind it, personally, but some others may not tolerate it) in the Options menu. 
  • As I mentioned in the Reddit comment, a compromise that DE can have is that, they can have their Warframe showcase on the screen at the end of the mission, but it only lasts a few seconds (maybe 2 seconds). Then it rolls up and disappears completely, just to give more space (so basically, where your image comes in. On top of that, we can remove the "Squad Showcase" button and move it into a location that makes more sense (so that the bottom section can have another section for any additional information (example: Railjack mission-specific results)).
    • There's no logical placement where you can put the button list without ruining the consistency (I'm going by the Nintendo Switch controls; don't know the bindings for PC "'B button' = Exit"), but that's just me.
    • I disagree with Pablo with respect to syndicates. The most that people look for in terms of information are "Equipment," "Mission Rewards & Pickups," "Mods." So I think that those should be moved elsewhere (this is probably the one that people will disagree with me the most, though).

 

That's all I can think of for now. If I think of anything else, I'll update my comment, but great start! (Though, to be honest, I wish I had thought of making these UI suggestions, but now that at least 3 people have done it already, it's too late to make my own suggestions. Oh well.)

First of all, thanks for taking the time to write all that! Now, onto each point:
- Yes, the show diorama button would be for people who likes to see them. And for DE to show their art. Being an option, no one should mind it being there.

- There has been lots of EoM UI mockups, I took ideas from most of them when creating my own. The idea of putting mods into those boxes (besides consistency with the rest of the UI) is for when you hover over them and they expand. So each one is correctly inside their own slots.

- I completely agree that there should at the very least be an option to put default fonts for anyone that can't read special fonts. That's a no brainer and I agree fully. I still think having both available allows for more stylish options while having that default font for anyone that needs it.
- I think the best solution for that would be the opposite actually. Whenever you hover the cursor over any ability the opacity of the rest lowers to half or 3/4 (making them a lot more transparent) so that the focus is entirely on the ability you're hovering. But I think that by default the four abilities should be completely visible (more so for frames with abilities that are linked). But still, a toggle for lowering the opacity when hovering should work, and I can see why would work for some people.
- I personally like having both passives and tips on that bar, it's a clear place where you can see all the available tips, instead of having to search them on different places (if they were placed in their respective abilities). 

- I agree with them putting the Squad showing first a few seconds and then going into the EoM screen. That's how I pictured in my head actually. But I still think that there's no downside to having the show squad button for anyone that liked some player's fashionframe and wants to take a look. As always as it is an option and it's not forced, I'm all for it.

- Yeah, with the distribution I've used, the only place where the usual buttons wouldn't look out of place would be on the below the options bar (mission rewards, squad showing and mission stats) in the middle. But I would have to see how's the UI on the switch first to have a better idea.

- In regards to that, the alternative is to unify both the equipment and syndicates into one vertical space where you have everything together (kinda like Pablo's one) but instead of being above everything else, putting them below every other piece of equipment. That way you only see them if you scroll down (if you have lots of things equipped that cover the entire vertical space).

No! It's never late, the more people suggesting things to DE, hopefully they'll end up taking some of those suggestions into account. And even then, if you have suggestions about other UI sections you'd like to see changed, let me know. I'll be doing variants of many of them.

Again, thanks for your awesome reply!

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11 minutes ago, LeaserResael said:

No! It's never late, the more people suggesting things to DE, hopefully they'll end up taking some of those suggestions into account. And even then, if you have suggestions about other UI sections you'd like to see changed, let me know. I'll be doing variants of many of them.

I can understand that. But I believe that if we give out way too many ideas, then I fear that DE will go in a wrong direction. I think that there should be one or two very good ideas that the community should gravitate on so that DE has a clear understanding of what the community is asking for. Not too sure if that makes sense, but that's my reasoning.

I guess, with respect to my own suggestions, it would have to be more in-line with UX and accessibility (since I focus a lot on those two, moreso than just UI), so perhaps I'll make something along those lines. I do want to incorporate some of your ideas and a couple of others in order to make sure that everything is streamlined and all works have some kind of direction to give DE pointers. I want to make sure that it's as 100% clear as possible (on top of that, I'm so busy with work, so it'd have to be on my own (limited) time).

I hope that makes sense (if not, please me know). Thanks for looking through my comment (and as for your responses, I can understand where you're coming from and I've since changed my stance a bit, so we're pretty much in alignment now). Thanks again and thank for your efforts.

Edited by (NSW)MasterJ93
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Whoa, this is so cool! I really dig the "show diorama" idea, I think it would be a great way to appease both sides of the aisle.

A few points (pardon me if these have been mentioned already):

1. Your Tips section is going to NEED a tab / alternate navigation option, like L1 / R1, because there is 0 way a controller cursor is going to be able to hit those tiny points, potentially some mice, too, if a user's hand is unsteady or they're just moving too quickly or the mouse is bad. Even with what we have right now, like in the Arsenal for colours, half the time I wind up picking the wrong box for the dual-energy colours because the boxes are so damn small. I am 100% certain I wouldn't even bother with that section if the Tip pips could only be operated by click and I had to hover on those tiny shapes. I'd be complaining in the Forums about it in a heartbeat.

2. I would make the ability cards a little more opaque, too. Transparency is fun, but if the colours are bright or strong enough, it will bleed through the card and make the text very difficult to read. In particular you can see it in this screen shot, there is a big difference between the readability of Spectral Scream versus Effigy. You can see / feel the red of Effigy's energy cost vibrate against the background colours. I would bump up the opacity for sure to keep the viewing plane more constant:

fgoNB90.png

2a. Watch your midtones. I mentioned this in my own feedback thread. A massive problem with transparency is the clashing of midtones to make things extremely difficult to read. Your abilities screen, while very enamouring to look at, is going to be a disaster zone of midtones if the diorama has bright or very strongly coloured lights. To prove my point, this is the same screen, but desaturated:

png

You can see the readability progressively get worse from Ability 1 to Ability 4 due to the lighting in the background. Don't invest too heavily into pretty transparencies, it's a massive design trap. You've got the "Show Diorama" button, let that do the job of showing off the "NEAT!" background for you, don't let the background spoil your accessibility.

3. Where would you put Focus gain for your End-Of-Mission screen? The lack of space for Focus was a big bone of contention in the main thread last I took a peek.

4. This would require testing, but text size for the ability screen might need to be bumped up by a size or two to accommodate those who play while sitting away from their screen - like us console / television plebs. The distance might make some of the text difficult to read, in particular my mind goes to the Passive and Tips bar on this point, the text feels incredibly small.

5. Don't be afraid to use bold text! Crisp text looks more "refined" and "delicate", appropriate for sci-fi, but bold can be a whole lot more accessible even if it feels more cave-man aesthetically. Sometimes the pixel size and kerning on crisp text is... well, total pants and it can make your delicate text look like a soup of lines and, if it's especially bad, make some of the characters seem to bleed into one another or just seem to disappear. This is most evident in characters like "i". Bold helps to mitigate this in some ways. If the text is only 1 pixel wide, that's probably not a good sign for the readability of your screen. If you take a look, you'll see that a lot of Warframe's current UI text is in bold or a very close relation called "Strong". The two are alike but not the same.

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hace 14 horas, (NSW)MasterJ93 dijo:

I can understand that. But I believe that if we give out way too many ideas, then I fear that DE will go in a wrong direction. I think that there should be one or two very good ideas that the community should gravitate on so that DE has a clear understanding of what the community is asking for. Not too sure if that makes sense, but that's my reasoning.

I guess, with respect to my own suggestions, it would have to be more in-line with UX and accessibility (since I focus a lot on those two, moreso than just UI), so perhaps I'll make something along those lines. I do want to incorporate some of your ideas and a couple of others in order to make sure that everything is streamlined and all works have some kind of direction to give DE pointers. I want to make sure that it's as 100% clear as possible (on top of that, I'm so busy with work, so it'd have to be on my own (limited) time).

I hope that makes sense (if not, please me know). Thanks for looking through my comment (and as for your responses, I can understand where you're coming from and I've since changed my stance a bit, so we're pretty much in alignment now). Thanks again and thank for your efforts.

That's a good point actually. But I don't think that 2, 3 or 4 people suggesting things is too much. If it were 50 people doing it yeah, it could become confusing and counterproductive. So you should really go ahead with your suggestions too, I think a dedicated UX thread focused on accessibility would be really helpful. And of course if I can help with anything, just let me know! 

You also made very good points before so I'm glad we're kinda in a similar place now. Thanks again for taking the time to reply!

 

hace 13 horas, (PS4)Maunstre dijo:

Whoa, this is so cool! I really dig the "show diorama" idea, I think it would be a great way to appease both sides of the aisle.

A few points (pardon me if these have been mentioned already):

1. Your Tips section is going to NEED a tab / alternate navigation option, like L1 / R1, because there is 0 way a controller cursor is going to be able to hit those tiny points, potentially some mice, too, if a user's hand is unsteady or they're just moving too quickly or the mouse is bad. Even with what we have right now, like in the Arsenal for colours, half the time I wind up picking the wrong box for the dual-energy colours because the boxes are so damn small. I am 100% certain I wouldn't even bother with that section if the Tip pips could only be operated by click and I had to hover on those tiny shapes. I'd be complaining in the Forums about it in a heartbeat.

2. I would make the ability cards a little more opaque, too. Transparency is fun, but if the colours are bright or strong enough, it will bleed through the card and make the text very difficult to read. In particular you can see it in this screen shot, there is a big difference between the readability of Spectral Scream versus Effigy. You can see / feel the red of Effigy's energy cost vibrate against the background colours. I would bump up the opacity for sure to keep the viewing plane more constant:

2a. Watch your midtones. I mentioned this in my own feedback thread. A massive problem with transparency is the clashing of midtones to make things extremely difficult to read. Your abilities screen, while very enamouring to look at, is going to be a disaster zone of midtones if the diorama has bright or very strongly coloured lights. To prove my point, this is the same screen, but desaturated:

You can see the readability progressively get worse from Ability 1 to Ability 4 due to the lighting in the background. Don't invest too heavily into pretty transparencies, it's a massive design trap. You've got the "Show Diorama" button, let that do the job of showing off the "NEAT!" background for you, don't let the background spoil your accessibility.

3. Where would you put Focus gain for your End-Of-Mission screen? The lack of space for Focus was a big bone of contention in the main thread last I took a peek.

4. This would require testing, but text size for the ability screen might need to be bumped up by a size or two to accommodate those who play while sitting away from their screen - like us console / television plebs. The distance might make some of the text difficult to read, in particular my mind goes to the Passive and Tips bar on this point, the text feels incredibly small.

5. Don't be afraid to use bold text! Crisp text looks more "refined" and "delicate", appropriate for sci-fi, but bold can be a whole lot more accessible even if it feels more cave-man aesthetically. Sometimes the pixel size and kerning on crisp text is... well, total pants and it can make your delicate text look like a soup of lines and, if it's especially bad, make some of the characters seem to bleed into one another or just seem to disappear. This is most evident in characters like "i". Bold helps to mitigate this in some ways. If the text is only 1 pixel wide, that's probably not a good sign for the readability of your screen. If you take a look, you'll see that a lot of Warframe's current UI text is in bold or a very close relation called "Strong". The two are alike but not the same.

Hey, thanks for such an in-depth reply! I appreciate people taking the time to read and respond in full detail.
Also, I couldn't fully read your own thread but from what I've read, there's some excellent suggestions in there, I'll take a look as soon as I can. 

Now onto your points:

1. Agreed, and I actually was going to add a Tab icon there. I just forgot to with the rendering of the video and all. But yes, I agree there needs to be a way to cycle through them. My original idea was that they would cycle on a timer, but you could also switch it manually with tab. So we're in the same page here (more so because it does happen to me when trying to click the second box for both energy and emissive, if you miss them it takes you to change the first color instead of the second).

2. Yes! Agreed too. My explanation for that is that I've used DE's colors instead of doing my own thing, below I will post some screens with all these things to show how I would do it if I didn't base anything on the current UI. I'm completely on the same page here. 

3. On the same place the exp is displayed. Since you only gain focus when you're at max level, you don't receive exp anymore but focus instead. Some decisions I took on that mockup were mainly to keep some consistency with what Pablo's shown. For example, you could actually do what he did and fuse Equipment and syndicates, but instead of putting syndicates first (like he did on his mockup) it could go below all of the equipment, so you scroll down if you want to see it. And that would make that whole vertical space unified and dedicated to equipment. 
The boxes and icon sizes are another point I made it that way to keep it consistent with their mockup, but if I made it from scratch I would make those boxes a little bit smaller, as well as the icons too. That way there'd be more space for everything else.

4. I've used almost the same size as the current UI (took screenshots in game to have around when creating it). So at the most it would require a few tweaks but the idea is that it should scale the same as it does now in game. And it's obviously important that everyone can read text no matter where you're sitting at.

5. Very good points, and I'll keep then in mind for when I make the next UI sections.

Now, here's an edited version with the red and green I would use (with also another variant with a darker background):

A. Brighter red/green (on the 4th ability) but same background.
qO60dZr.png

 

B. Brighter red/green (on the 4th ability) and darker background:oAbnenF.png

C. Colored and midtones (both with the same background and the darker one):
hoM8fYp.pngievc6gg.pngLZKWElk.png


Thanks again for taking the time and read and reply and making excellent points!

Edited by LeaserResael
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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi. I googled to find similar ideas from past, but more about lack of information, most importantly Ability screen. Some people back in 2013-2018 were discussing it, but its 2020 now and couldnt find thread pointing this out.

Can someone maybe tell me, perhaps developers have explained their reasoning in streams or whatever - why is it that we have to read everything on WIKI how abilities work. There is TONS of information, numbers, multipliers etc that or not shown in ability. Any chance it happens with the new UI they working on - like adding buttons to unhide those numbers, info under ability.

Does anybody actually now their reasoning, not here to complain, because its not hard to open wiki. 

Cheers.

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On 2020-02-27 at 4:35 PM, fakeplayerr said:

Does anybody actually now their reasoning, not here to complain, because its not hard to open wiki. 

"It would be overwhelming to new players" is the reason.

 

Also, have my upvote.

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