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Make Equinox's 'Rage' ability useful


Hectoncheir
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Equinox is love, Equinox is life.

All her abilities in their current state are satisfactory to me. All except one.
Rage - Equinox's Day-Form second ability.

In its current state, it is nothing short of a double-edged sword; it applies a %% damage taken increase to enemies whilst increasing their speed*
*Exactly like how Speed Nova functions, minus the %% damage increase

Rage's current main purpose is to be used against packs, or a group, of enemies to increase the damage they would take from the re-cast (or second-cast if you call it that) portion of Maim's accumulated damage.

 

My proposition is mostly to put forth my 2 cents to give Rage greater up-front/instant viability, instead of its current double-edged sword use. My proposition would make using Rest and Rage's augment, [Calm & Frenzy] viable for both the Rest's half of Equinox's second ability, and Rage's other half.

 

My suggestion is as follows:
The casting parametres (cast range, cast radius) for Rage is unchanged
The %% damage taken increase and movement speed is unchanged

What is changed is the affects Rage applies:

Rage now applies an instant impact proc (or slash, electric or blast; whatever applies brief crowd control (Its purpose it to stagger the enemy, so it should deal 0 damage)) to all affected targets within radius, and once that proc wears off, it now now resets the affected enemies' targeting priorities; it now attacks the nearest enemy in sight, friend or foe.

 

For balance reasons, the enemy affected by Rage could instead have Tenno a their #1.5 priority; if a Tenno is their closest enemy, the enemy won't hesitate to change targets until that Tenno is no longer the closest enemy.
Or perhaps scrap that idea and make it so that if 'Tenno A' becomes their nearest target at least once, that enemy will have 'Tenno A' as their #1 priority; the enemy will gladly die trying to kill that Tenno. Even if 'Tenno B' becomes the enemies nearest target once, or multiple times.

When the duration of my proposed Rage expires, all affected enemies will have their targeting priorities reset and the damage taken increase and movement speed increase will be removed.

 

This is a suggestion more than anything; Digital Extremes changed Mend to have an up-front reward so that it was on par with Maim.
I am hoping Digital Extremes will do the same to Rage -- Rest offers so much, and Rage offers so little.

 

I'm not a developer. I am not a balance... person/nerd/thing. I'm just a player. A player who uses Equinox all the time. All the damn time.

I want Rage to have a greater purpose than its current iteration.

Consider this a thread to also put up your wanted changes to Equinox, I suppose. She's absolutely not my Warframe. She's our Warframe.
 

Edited by Hectoncheir
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1 hour ago, Tyreaus said:

Have pushed for Rage to Rad proc before, so +1 for that.


I've been thinking that Radiation should stack to cause Equinox Rage. lol I'm good with both.
(They attack faster and take greater damage? Good, let em' attack each other. Might matter for a change.)

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Radiation procs will do exactly what I've suggested, but there is a difference between radiation procs and Warframe ability-induced confusion.

Oberon's overall thematic is about radiation damage and radiation procs, of which all radiation procs from his abilities are independent to the duration of Oberon's 1(Smite), 2(Hallowed Ground), and 4(Reckoning) -- in short, Warframe Ability Duration does not affect the duration of ability-sourced radiation procs. Oberon's radiation thematic is, uhh... I'm not gonna say anything 'cause I rarely play him, so no comment. Radsradsardsards.

Nyx's third ability, Chaos, is a unique form of radiation proc that is affected by ability duration. It has a higher priority than radiation procs do; radiation procs will only come into effect once Chaos times out, if it does. Nyx's unique radiation is thematic to her; she warps the minds of lesser beings to cause chaos on the battlefield.

Both choices are fine, but there's a clear difference between both approaches:

  1. Going with the Oberon route (Radiation proc) would mean that enemies will only be confused for 12 seconds. I agree that that is sufficient time, but the only point in grabbing ability duration would be for the purposes of [Calm & Frenzy] to spread the abilities affects around. If we want to be petty, we can argue "Why should Equinox apply radiation procs when weapons do just that? Warframes are meant to be super-ultra-giga powerful techno-babble suits. Give her something unique."
     
  2. Going with the Nyx route (Unique radiation) would mean that enemies will be confused for as long as your ability duration dictates. Ability duration would be a worthwhile investment, doubly so for [Calm & Frenzy]


I don't want a gorgeous ability affect to be added to Rage -- nothing of the sort.

I, personally, prefer to have an affect that mimics Nyx's Chaos, more so than Oberon (and consequently all Warframe weapons) with their radiation procs.

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9 hours ago, taiiat said:

Rage is great. Enemies take more Damage, and they also come to you faster so you can Kill them more efficiently.

I have to disagree. Most of the enemies in the game are ranged, using Rage will only get you and your squad mates killed faster.

It has happened to me plenty of times, from my experience. And especially on higher leveled missions.

11 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Have pushed for Rage to Rad proc before, so +1 for that.

I do think she needs more work overall but that seems to be a dead horse so I won't beat on it.

I agree, and I'll gladly beat on that horse right here.

The main problem with Equinox is that her unique mechanic of swapping between forms has a lot of wasted potential, due to how her abilities are designed to not only not work with the mechanic, but also against each other even if swapping forms was allowed without causing 2/3 of her abilities, if not counting Metamorphosis, to deactivate.

For example, Equinox's Rest ability, which has a health threshold for the enemy to wake up, when used before Maim, the slash damage over time effect from Maim can possibly cause the enemies health to hit that health threshold and wake them up. Another example, one that is within Night Form, is how Pacify encourages Equinox to stay close to her enemies, while Mend encourages her to stay close to her allies. These are just a couple of examples from off the top of my head.

Most of the posts and threads I read about Equinox from other players who mention wanting to make the transition between her forms be easier, also don't mention those problems from above. They often talk about making quality of life changes to make Metamorphosis simply not interrupt her other abilities, but fail to consider how her abilities interact with each other, negatively. Which still makes transitioning between her forms a problem, due to how her abilities counteract each other in terms of function. 

I really do believe she needs a rework. One that takes her form change mechanic, from being a gimmick where it has a few niche uses, into a necessary element of her game-play. Which could be done, by leaving intentional gaps between the abilities within each of her forms, but being able to fill the gaps by switching her forms and using their abilities one by one, in tandem, with each ability having a level of interplay with the next ability. Through giving the player the ability to link together the kits of both forms to perform various combinations of abilities in game-play, is what I believe to be a great way to encourage the player to use both her forms and all of the abilities in each of her forms.

Here's an example from a post I made yesterday.

  • Equinox in Day Form uses Rage, which has been turned into taunt ability that still increases enemy's melee, fire-rate, and movement speed, but causes the enemies to focus their attacks on Equinox and not on her squad mates.
  • Change Equinox into Night Form and use an new ability which casts a protective veil that not only protects her, but absorbs and stores the incoming damage as additive Ability Strength for when she swaps into Day Form. On deactivation, either after her protection's duration ends, or she swaps to Day Form, it will result in a short to mid-ranged burst that knocks nearby enemies off balance, giving Equinox an chance to retaliate.
  • Change Equinox into Day Form, and use the stored additive Ability Strength from her Night Form, on either a buff ability that increases the damage output of herself and allies, or on an ability that inflicts damage.

She has the potential of being a very technical support frame, that can help the squad in both damage output and tanking. As well as being more active in her game-play, by making her continuously swap forms and cast abilities to string together potential combos throughout a mission, and her effectiveness based entirely on her player's skill and understanding of her abilities and combinations of said abilities, across both forms, to achieve an desired effect.

Building her game-play around her form changes is really something I believe that would work well with her.

Edited by A-keras
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All she needs is being able to carry % from her 3 when changing forms without damn augment (or even her 4 so you could switch from charged 4 in day form to night form and instantly pop heal if needed). Her Rage is very helpful if you not playing with bunch of potaotes that die left and right to lvl 50 mobs. Also super helpful for Hemocyte and survival if you farming for resources and camping one spot.

Its like complaining about speed nova speeding up mobs that are killing some scrubs in my team, couldnt care less really 😹

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9 hours ago, Hectoncheir said:

Going with the Oberon route (Radiation proc) would mean that enemies will only be confused for 12 seconds.

Not necessarily if it (quietly) reprocs for (duration - 12) seconds. Granted, we're kind of talking technical semantics and I think we all at least hope DE would be smart enough not to add just a vanilla Rad proc to the ability's initial cast.

3 hours ago, A-keras said:

Which could be done, by leaving intentional gaps between the abilities within each of her forms, but being able to fix the gaps by switching her forms and using their abilities one by one, in tandem

Just to say something on this:

One of the things I enjoyed about playing Equinox pre-minmax was how her technical sophistication revolved around the situation. If things got too dangerous, e.g. when reviving an ally, one would switch forms and sleep enemies. If someone needed healing, night form -> pop 4.

What would not nail that is having to require switching forms just to accommodate the drawbacks of the other form's ability. It stops being a tactical decision and becomes a sequence of button presses to enact one ability safely and optimally. It's the same sort of thing as activating day 3 to start her day 4: there's not much tactical decision behind it 90% of the time, it's just a sequence of button presses the player does when using her day 4, because the minute boost to power strength is borderline free.

It runs the risk of being convoluted and convolution runs the risk of having steps that aren't worth it. Just for the example in your post: why use her Rage ability if she can hop into a crowd of enemies, become their main target anyway, and pop her protective veil? Very similar effect (less incoming damage probably doesn't make a huge difference because scaling) and cuts down on an entire cast. Likewise, why would she use her Rage ability by itself? It sounds like a suicide button. Compare that to Nidus's 2 and 1 combo, both abilities of which are just fine on their own.

Edited by Tyreaus
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10 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

What would not nail that is having to require switching forms just to accommodate the drawbacks of the other form's ability. It stops being a tactical decision and becomes a sequence of button presses to enact one ability safely and optimally. It's the same sort of thing as activating day 3 to start her day 4: there's not much tactical decision behind it 90% of the time, it's just a sequence of button presses the player does when using her day 4, because the minute boost to power strength is borderline free.

It runs the risk of being convoluted and convolution runs the risk of having steps that aren't worth it. Just for the example in your post: why use her Rage ability if she can hop into a crowd of enemies, become their main target anyway, and pop her protective veil? Very similar effect (less incoming damage probably doesn't make a huge difference because scaling) and cuts down on an entire cast. Likewise, why would she use her Rage ability by itself? It sounds like a suicide button. Compare that to Nidus's 2 and 1 combo, both abilities of which are just fine on their own.

I agree about your thoughts on my version of Rage. The idea was Equinox's protective veil ability would benefit from the increased amount and rate of damage hitting it. And to be fair, Rage originally is already, in your terms, a suicide button, but for the whole squad. I thought there could be another way of using the enemy's increased aggression against them, and limit their targets from everyone to just Equinox so not everyone is in danger. Thinking back on it, Rage would work better as a way to get enemies to attack each other, killing their own allies with their increased damage and speed.

Then while they're busy fighting among themselves, Equinox can use her new defensive ability to jump into the thick of the affected enemy group, and absorb their incoming damage. The faster and higher the rate of damage, the more is absorbed and converted into additive power strength for the next ability cast, for only when she transitions into Day Form. When she does, the additive power strength can be used for an buffing ability like Provoke, or an ability that inflicts outright damage.

I do have to disagree with you on a couple of things though. I don't see the rest as convoluted. Seeing as Equinox is made up of two frames basically fused together, and thanks to that they have not only different forms to switch between, but also have almost twice the abilities of any other frame in the game. There has to be some drawback on their powers, so having their forms be required to work together is pretty fitting. In both gameplay and theme. They already share the same health, energy, etc.

So it's in their best interest, and for the player, for them to work as a cooperative team. Sure, you can still focus on one half of Equinox, but her forms are a package deal. She shouldn't be all that effective when using only one of her forms, otherwise there's no point in swapping them.   

Edited by A-keras
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7 hours ago, A-keras said:

I don't see the rest as convoluted.

I don't have "the rest" to work with, so I can't form an opinion beyond "this kind of forced interplay can make things convoluted". Emphasis on "can". I'm guessworking with abstractions.

7 hours ago, A-keras said:

having their forms be required to work together is pretty fitting.

As I said: see Nidus's 1 and 2 combo. If the abilities work fine independently, sure. If one requires the other to have any use, not so great.

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Rage is extremely useful, virtually guarantees enemies dying from Maim release and aside from making enemies die faster it angers them to give you free energy through Rage/Hunter Adrenaline.

Day form is offensive, comparatively very squishy, she doesn't need much more CC than what Maim has to offer.

If you want Rage without drawbacks, sleep the enemies before or after using it.

If pressing Rage is suicide when the mission level is too high, then the mission level is too high, abort or adopt more defensive tactics.

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How about switching the functionalities of her 2 and 3 on DAY form?make her 2 give strength to allies on cast for a duration, an the aura buff/debuff enemies like 2 does now. Doing that on Night form would be cool too, but maybe too much? x)

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I'd rather DE take a look at her night form instead. All of it. Day is perfect for the most part. Some players even boo-hoo about it because it's too good. Night on the other day, provides mediocre defense increase with only saving grace being the sleep and the bandaid augment for its DR.

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