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Sword & shield in new melee


(XBOX)KayAitch
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Swords and shields are a cool idea and weapon type, and in the latest version of melee they can be pretty powerful, but they don't feel like they're defensive.

In older versions blocking only stopped some damage and shields blocked more, but that was kind of useless so we now have a blocking angle mechanic where sword & shield get the widest angle.

That's great and all, but doesn't feel very unique - you're going to be turning towards enemies anyway. Shields don't feel any more defensive than just swords, apart from being slightly easier to block with (and it is very slight).

So, two suggestions for sword and shield:

1) Shields should continue to block during melee attacks (that's the purpose of them IRL) though possibly only during blocking combos and maybe for dual daggers/swords too (again, the main reason to have a weapon in your off-hand is blocking).

2) When using a non-dual secondary the shield should continue to block (and build combo-counter) though maybe with reduced effective angle. You would have to drop the block to reload or aim down sights.

 

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3 hours ago, (XB1)ELM0Damian said:

Do they not block when attacking in a block combo anymore?

I don't think so, as I've taken damage from the front while mid attack, but I'd be happy of that was just a bug/glitch.

It also puts me into Wisp's floaty walk animation so is very buggy on X1.

4 hours ago, (XB1)ELM0Damian said:

Or at least the ack and brunt with its augment could

Doesn't that redirect everyones' damage while blocking?

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6 hours ago, (XB1)ELM0Damian said:

Yeah it redirects damage to allies to you Only while blocking. It worked while using block combos before the rework still haven't checked if it still does. 

Shields didnt actually block mid attack frames, like all other weapons, its more that augments were likely coded to be on keypress since you could GD break ai with the forced taunt mid attacks, but didnt reduce damage.

Still its a good idea that IMO shields only get the "block during block attacks" property (tis true that offhands were used defensively, parrying daggers or a arming sword as offhand over shield when not out of necessity was a intentional aggressive options choice).

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On 2020-02-03 at 4:47 AM, Andele3025 said:

Still its a good idea that IMO shields only get the "block during block attacks" property (tis true that offhands were used defensively, parrying daggers or a arming sword as offhand over shield when not out of necessity was a intentional aggressive options choice).

Yup! If you look at a lot of the dual swords they're really sword+parrying dagger.

I would give them the same perk (if shields also get the offhand blocking for one-handed secondaries) but maybe only on a new stance that uses the offhand for blocking.

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2 hours ago, DidacoJack said:

block while you are aiming (blocking while idle too would be too op)

I'd go the other way round - passive block (with reduced angle) when shooting from the hip, but dropped to aim or reload. You already passively block when in melee, which feels a little clunky at the moment (fire your pistol, swipe so you get passive block, run around a bit, shoot something, swipe once to get passive blocking back).

I think blocking while aiming has a problem for scopes (or almost any weapon with zoom) as you won't see that you're blocking. We could take those away to show you blocking, but that's going to feel broken with weapons like the Arca Sisco and Knell.

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20 hours ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

I'd go the other way round - passive block (with reduced angle) when shooting from the hip, but dropped to aim or reload. You already passively block when in melee, which feels a little clunky at the moment (fire your pistol, swipe so you get passive block, run around a bit, shoot something, swipe once to get passive blocking back).

I think blocking while aiming has a problem for scopes (or almost any weapon with zoom) as you won't see that you're blocking. We could take those away to show you blocking, but that's going to feel broken with weapons like the Arca Sisco and Knell.

Yes, but the point is people (especially on pc) barely use aim for anything. By making it work while hip firing would be way too easy and "brain dead".

Player input to obtain a "reward" has to be there, imho.

Actually though, I was specifically talking about Spearguns because you look like an absolute unit while wielding them with a shield (...ahem) and the Shedu because it doesn't need to be held with 2 hand even if it's a primary.

By the way, I logged in just to remind myself how cool a warframe looks like with a spear and a shield, only to find out that the default shield placement got completely messed up XD

They sit right through the arm in a completely wrong angle, and there's no way to put it right with the editor, WTF.

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1 hour ago, DidacoJack said:

Yes, but the point is people (especially on pc) barely use aim for anything. By making it work while hip firing would be way too easy and "brain dead".

Player input to obtain a "reward" has to be there, imho

I get that, and agree it can't be all the time, but you already block passively all the time the melee is out.

Maybe the blocking angle could be reduced when pistol is equipped. Maybe the accuracy could be reduced when hip-firing with a shield but not aiming - you're either suppressing from cover or popping out to aim, similar to how a riot shield would be used IRL.

I also think shield blocking should be passive - I mean, it's a shield; it's protecting you if you're just standing behind it. A nikana or whatever you have to wave about and cut bullets out of the air (or whatever it is you're supposed to be doing blocking gunfire), but a shield - is it between you and the gun? Then it's blocking.

1 hour ago, DidacoJack said:

They sit right through the arm in a completely wrong angle, and there's no way to put it right with the editor, WTF

That seems to depend on the frame and holster location, but yeah it's totally bugged. Shields also get locked in their closed state, and a weird bug where the sword in ½ the size it should be.

Edited by (XB1)KayAitch
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