The Kuva Bramma and the dangers of self damage!

[-Krism-]

2 hours ago, Miser_able said:

Probably because ignis falls into the special weapon category, which is mostly explosive weapons. Same reason you can use the explosion range mod on it. 

But an explosive bow isn't considered special?

[Miser_able]

28 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

But an explosive bow isn't considered special?

*shrug *

[ShadowHound15]

Kuva Bramma is latest weapon to have self damage, and will kill you even unmodded with lots of frames. The thing can't even use Cautious shot, while the Ignis can? Come on DE just remove self damage already. It shouldn't be a thing in a game where you can jump around and move fast like a ninja, and this game is promoted with that in mind. In the past when Warframe was slower and more frames had 'set and forget abilities' it made sense. But now as you have shown time and time again you want to move away from that and give the players more freedom of movement, why have a mechanic that forces you to slow down or stand in place? Please for the love of Clem just remove self damage.

[taiiat]

it's there to keep Players from using Explosive type Weapons for AFKfarming, whether it's effective at that or not being a different matter.

you don't have to stand still to use an Explosive Weapon, the simple way to avoid shooting yourself is to not shoot Enemies that are within a few Meters of you and to not shoot a Projectile directly forwards from you when you're flying through the air. as obviously you're going to just shoot yourself with it.
you can totally use Parkour without shooting yourself with an Explosive.

[Aekhon]

12 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Why should it work with a bow anyway?

Why shouldn't it?

Cautious Shot should work with every single weapon that does self-damage, imo.  If you don't want to use it, then don't.  If others want to sacrifice 15% of their damage to avoid accidental deaths due to BS, why shouldn't they be allowed to?

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

3 hours ago, ShadowHound15 said:

Come on DE just remove self damage already. It shouldn't be a thing in a game where you can jump around and move fast like a ninja, and this game is promoted with that in mind

Self damage makes a lot of sense, it adds weapons personality and gives a negative you can compensate for, which feels skillful.

Loads of games have self-damage. Doom has it. Destiny has it. CoD has it. TF2 has it. Almost every first or third person shooter of any type has self damage.

The problem is DE's implementation of self damage, which is broken AF. Warframe's weapons do much more damage than you can take, and enemies are very tough with relatively weak weapons (they can't really hurt each other). This leads to every worthwhile AoE explosion also being lethal.

The fix is simple (though probably not easy) just do what every other game with self damage does: none for hitting friendly AI or teammates, significant but non lethal for close enemies and walls, and maybe a lethal range with falloff (so shoot your feet or wall within 1m you die, but 3m leaves you with 5% health).

[xcrimsonlegendx]

Its so a strong weapon like the bramma can't be spammed mindlessly.

[ShadowHound15]

1 hour ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

Self damage makes a lot of sense, it adds weapons personality and gives a negative you can compensate for, which feels skillful.

Loads of games have self-damage. Doom has it. Destiny has it. CoD has it. TF2 has it. Almost every first or third person shooter of any type has self damage.

The problem is DE's implementation of self damage, which is broken AF. Warframe's weapons do much more damage than you can take, and enemies are very tough with relatively weak weapons (they can't really hurt each other). This leads to every worthwhile AoE explosion also being lethal.

The fix is simple (though probably not easy) just do what every other game with self damage does: none for hitting friendly AI or teammates, significant but non lethal for close enemies and walls, and maybe a lethal range with falloff (so shoot your feet or wall within 1m you die, but 3m leaves you with 5% health).

Yeah, now that I think about it my initial argument is very stupid. But I really like your idea on how it should be changed, not dying because of teammates jumping in front of you all the time would be nice.

[SpicyDinosaur]

3 hours ago, Aekhon said:

Why shouldn't it?

Cautious Shot should work with every single weapon that does self-damage, imo.  If you don't want to use it, then don't.  If others want to sacrifice 15% of their damage to avoid accidental deaths due to BS, why shouldn't they be allowed to?

Because that is how mods work, if you want the most basic answer, different ones for different weapons. If you want that changed, then come up with a reason instead of just parroting the question back.

[(XBOX)Umbra Howl]

In devstream 137 space  mom said just use cautious shot

Oh wait we can't because it bugged

I want use bow so bad

Edited February 6, 2020 by (XB1)Umbrahowl

[Gailus]

I would really like to see a Cautious Shot equivalent for pistols as well. The Akarius may have an arming distance, but since most frames can move faster than the bullets it hardly matters. Some stagger/knockdown and a slap on the wrist for playing wrong I can understand, but instantly dying is just absurd.

Heck, there are even Melee weapons with self damage, so why can't we get something for those too?

[Sergent-Qc]

21 hours ago, z3us32610 said:

Please make Cautious Shot available for the Kuva Bramma.

Thank you!

I agree .... Please DE !!  Self damage is NOT fun ... 

[z3us32610]

8 hours ago, Aekhon said:

Why shouldn't it?

Cautious Shot should work with every single weapon that does self-damage, imo.  If you don't want to use it, then don't.  If others want to sacrifice 15% of their damage to avoid accidental deaths due to BS, why shouldn't they be allowed to?

Exactly. I have been posting threads ever since we got weapon exilus mods about this issue and every time, a community of people come out and tell me why I shouldn't be able to use this mod. I have never understood that. 

"Don't shoot point blank" is a common argument.

Yeah so... don't make a single effing mistake in a fast paced looter shooter where efficiency and speed are the key? Come on. They're all extremely weak arguments coming from people who want to argue just for the sake of it. Which is why I don't engage with them.

I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to put Cautious Shot on any weapon I choose. If I want to spend the forma, weapon exilus slot, mod capacity etc... to mod it on my Strun Wraith, Stradavar, Braton Vandal etc... then I should be able to. I mean, I realize the Ignis/Wraith is a "launcher" but it does ZERO self damage and Cautious Shot is available as an exilus mod.

The best explanation for why Cautious Shot is not available is down to easy programming. It seems DE used similar coding to the Firestorm mod for Cautious Shot, that's why it's only available for these weapons. At the time they released it, it made sense. But with all the new self-damaging weapons out, I feel it is time to expand the ability to use this mod.

[z3us32610]

5 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Because that is how mods work, if you want the most basic answer, different ones for different weapons. If you want that changed, then come up with a reason instead of just parroting the question back.

Come on. What is the reason for the mod? As in, what is the function of Cautious Shot?

Edited February 6, 2020 by z3us32610

[RS219]

Kuva Bramma can do much more raw damage than Kuva Ogris, but lacks access to Cautious Shot. It's easier to gauge a safe distance to shoot the bow safely since the charge can be held down and distance planned as opposed to the semi-auto shot of the Kuva Ogris, but an option to allow Cautious Shot on K.Bramma would be great. At least the mortar bomblets don't deal self-damage so that's a consolation.

Other critiques of Bramma would be its low ammo count combined with reliance on the rarest sniper ammo type while lacking the innate ammo mutation of the Lenz, requiring Carrier or a mutation mod to guarantee a steady supply of ammo.

Suggest to increase the Bramma's max ammo to 20~30, and allow it to use Cautious Shot. The mod's inaccessibility seems more like an oversight rather than intentionally done.

[Drachnyn]

I'd rather cap or remove self damage entirely than to further our array of badly designed bandaid mods but apperently DE agrees with you. 

 

[Marcooose]

Thanks for the feedback! We've heard the requests to negate the self-damage of the Bramma, so expect something to that extent. Cautious Shot doesn't work on bows outright so expect a bow specific version! 

[(XBOX)Thang Hung]

3 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

I'd rather cap or remove self damage entirely than to further our array of badly designed bandaid mods but apperently DE agrees with you. 

 

This is beyond hot garbage! Cautious Shot is a 10 point mod so roughly 2 million credits and 40k endo. So now we have to level up a second version just for the 3 weapons that it MIGHT actually be used on? @[DE]Marcus 

[xRufus7x]

7 minutes ago, [DE]Marcus said:

Thanks for the feedback! We've heard the requests to negate the self-damage of the Bramma, so expect something to that extent. Cautious Shot doesn't work on bows outright so expect a bow specific version! 

I mean that is cool and all but couldn't it just be enabled for bows?

Also secondary version when?

[Madway7]

7 minutes ago, [DE]Marcus said:

Thanks for the feedback! We've heard the requests to negate the self-damage of the Bramma, so expect something to that extent. Cautious Shot doesn't work on bows outright so expect a bow specific version! 

Very sad times when the solution is just more bandaid mods.

At least change the self damage negation mods to cap it to a certain amount rather than lowering it by a %

[Cradicias]

9 minutes ago, [DE]Marcus said:

Thanks for the feedback! We've heard the requests to negate the self-damage of the Bramma, so expect something to that extent. Cautious Shot doesn't work on bows outright so expect a bow specific version! 

Yeah, no need to add a NEW mod when we have one that does what you want and you can just make it work for the Lenz and Bramma as well.

[Gailus]

15 minutes ago, [DE]Marcus said:

Thanks for the feedback! We've heard the requests to negate the self-damage of the Bramma, so expect something to that extent. Cautious Shot doesn't work on bows outright so expect a bow specific version! 

Are there any plans for a Secondary specific version of Cautious Shot in the works, or just the Bow one?

[DarkSkysz]

Here comes the oh...here comes the ohhhhhh, here comes the people complaing about suicide with a bow.

Edited February 6, 2020 by DarkSkysz

[chaotea]

On 2020-01-31 at 9:34 PM, NoggDog117 said:

I have always felt self damage in Warframe is detrimental to the gameplay.

Im a huge supporter of scrapping self damage all together. I get it in certain games, but it just doesnt seem like a good fit in warframe.

[Drachnyn]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Thang Hung:

This is beyond hot garbage! Cautious Shot is a 10 point mod so roughly 2 million credits and 40k endo. So now we have to level up a second version just for the 3 weapons that it MIGHT actually be used on? @[DE]Marcus 

There are also self damage weapons that are neither bow nor launcher. Acceltra for example, prisma angstrum aswell. So expect more bad bandaid mods in the future.