Jump to content
Jade Shadows: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Suggestion for Titania's upcoming changes


Braneman
 Share

Recommended Posts

Titania's changes look incredible, her 1 is going to be more useful, her 2 isn't going to be dependent on hunting down the most fragile enemies in the game and hoping they stay alive long enough for you to get the thorns buff, and her 3 is going to be really really useful now.

There is only one change I'd like to request for her 3, I'd like it so that you can tap 3 to move the lantern to a certain point dictated by your ability range, like it costs half the energy of casting it and you can perfectly position an enemy where you want them to be or something. Just something so that if an enemy moves to an undesirable spot during casting they can be repositioned.

The other change I would like to see is if you could set it so that the buffs you get work on your companion, having her 2's thorns on a dog/cat/moa would make it a lot more practical to keep one around on a frame that lacks armor. I am aware that this works on allies in range and I'm assuming this means it works on your dog, but it would make the ability really useful if your dog/cat/moa could act as a second source of that, keeping them safe, provided you don't get a double bonus from having the ability active on Titania and her pet.

Edited by Braneman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Braneman said:

I'd like it so that you can tap 3 to move the lantern to a certain point dictated by your ability range,

Or, and just spit-balling here, you can cast another Lantern? She can have up to 4 at once, so you could make a whole field of them and cover an entire half of a Defense area with them.

I mean, she also has free de-cast so you can drop the one that you don't want and hit another enemy where you do want... so these options are already there.

Not trying to be rude, but I don't think DE are going to give you a 'move here' function for less energy when they've already given you the other two options.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These are normal QoL's that will change very little. Maximum, you will now get 50% of the DR at will and this is the only useful change and it is very small. Spellbind-CC remains useless in most situations. Status immunity - it could be a buff from the Tribute, it would be more useful. Lantern-the bug is still not fixed. They even showed it on devstream, the enemies are still shooting at you. But who cares, right? In fact, DE changed one problem to another. Now the Lantern doesn't fly away, but small objects will block the Lantern and it will kill you. 

The changes are good, but they should have been made 3 years ago. Now these changes are simply not enough.

 

Edited by zhellon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Minor improvements I guess, but still not really what a lot of people wanted.  

I hate cycled abilities because cycling controls are clunky as hell and annoying to use on every ability that has them. Better than the mechanic it had before, but still not ideal. 

Razorfly respawn mechanics should have been improved. 

I feel like the logic they brought up in a dev stream about why immolate doesn't have a constant drain so that Ember can cast her other abilities more should apply to razorwing as well.

They seemed to not want lantern to float away, but didn't add a snare or any mechanic to her 1 to keep spellbound enemies from flying off into space? 

After over three years of feedback I think I'm just going to assume she'll never be in a place I think she should be. At least she can fly around fast with an augment, it's a better identity than some frames have I guess. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Or, and just spit-balling here, you can cast another Lantern? She can have up to 4 at once, so you could make a whole field of them and cover an entire half of a Defense area with them.

I mean, she also has free de-cast so you can drop the one that you don't want and hit another enemy where you do want... so these options are already there.

Not trying to be rude, but I don't think DE are going to give you a 'move here' function for less energy when they've already given you the other two options.

Lantern costs 75 energy, it's not something I want to keep casting again and again, I want it to either sit around killing everything if it's a low level mission, or gather up all the enemies into a big group. Also you can't really tell a grineer "go here, stand here, don't let the warframe over there ragdoll you into the startosphere or kill you" they tend to stand behind cover(blocks lantern from being as effective) or move towards objectives(I want them directly in a chokepoint) I mean I'd love to be able to tell them to do that, it would make setting up lantern in the perfect spot trivial, but outside of working for the queens it seems easier to just tap a button and the lantern anchors here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 часов назад, Braneman сказал:
Lantern costs 75 energy, it's not something I want to keep casting again and again, I want it to either sit around killing everything if it's a low level mission, or gather up all the enemies into a big group. Also you can't really tell a grineer "go here, stand here, don't let the warframe over there ragdoll you into the startosphere or kill you" they tend to stand behind cover(blocks lantern from being as effective) or move towards objectives(I want them directly in a chokepoint) I mean I'd love to be able to tell them to do that, it would make setting up lantern in the perfect spot trivial, but outside of working for the queens it seems easier to just tap a button and the lantern anchors here.

This should be done using the Lantern object, which could be used as Volt shields by simply taking the Lantern in hand. The flying enemy that you command from afar has a lot of problems. You can control flying enemies using the method you suggested, but I feel it is useless because in most situations it will just get stuck in the wall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Her changes are okay. But there is so much more that can be done to reduce the mechanical clunkiness of her abilities.

  1. Spellbind targets can't have Lantern cast on them. Lantern should cancel Spellbind on the target and now root it to the ground below.
  2. Spellbind targets aren't auto-targeted by Diwata swings. You would want to have snappy melee strikes when your targets are floating randomly away into the air.
  3. Tribute doesn't cast on enemies you already extracted a soul from. It should still "Soul Punch" enemies away to make use of its damage, damage penalty and ragdoll effect, but just don't produce a soul to renew the aura (if it must be kept for thematic reasons).
  4. Make Spellbind enemies float towards the nearest Lantern. Scattering enemies away to float off somewhere you can't reach doesn't make for good team gameplay. Alternatively just limit the range enemies can float off to from the cast point.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Braneman said:

Lantern costs 75 energy

Efficiency is a thing... magic...

In fact, at the very least, a good Titania mod setup would include a little Efficiency to help out the Duration in reducing her Razorwing costs. So, at the very most that should be 52 energy on a frame that can have an energy pool of 637 energy and has now got a Vacuum on her to pick up orbs without too much effort. (Actually, there's also builds that benefit from having a Fleeting in place of that Streamline, which reduces the cost of Razorwing down to just 1.25 energy per second, and then her Lantern only costs 30, while both her 1 and 2 only cost 10.) It's quite the way of freeing up more casts.

8 hours ago, Braneman said:

Also you can't really tell a grineer "go here, stand here, don't let the warframe over there ragdoll you into the startosphere or kill you" they tend to stand behind cover

Lancers and other ranged enemies do cover. It would make for a good counter. Except for every single unit that charges you, tries to grapple you, or already stands up in front of you to try and out-tank you with either a Shield, a Gorgon or an Ogris coincidentally also rallying the cowering ranged enemy to group up behind it. Right smack in the places where enemies are going to walk again in the future, exactly where you'd want to place a Lantern.

No, you can't prevent your own team from killing them, but the whole point of 'draw' abilities like Lantern is that they do rely on you casting them and then on the enemies going to them, not the ability going to the enemies. And if that draw has a large range, or huge aggro, then you do have to re-cast it when you want it somewhere else. Loki's Decoy and Saryn's Molt are two of the best and you can't do anything about where they are without either a re-cast, or Loki's switch teleport which costs more than the recast would.

Or you have abilities that draw aggro that you can't control at all, her previous Lantern was the example of that, and Nyx's Mind Control is another. The Aggro draw subject follows its own rules and while you can give it a nudge every now and then, that's it, it's not yours to control.

Octavia's Resonator is another good one, because unless you specifically Augment it, the base ability not only roams around where you can't predict, it also steals your source of damage and takes that around too. Heck, maybe you could campaign to change Titania's Lantern augment to allow this instead? That might work.

There are drawbacks to all of these aggro-draw abilities. Before, the drawback was that the ability did move, that it did float around, which was actually DE's solution to this exact problem; you could literally hit the enemy to make it go somewhere more useful and, because you could fly around in Razorwing, pushing it down to the ground again was supposed to be easy.

Players wanted that to stop, they wanted it to be tethered, they didn't care that you could manually reposition it, and if you'll notice DE listened. But there you see DE built in that drawback to the ability again, it now doesn't move, like the other stationary aggro draw abilities.

DE have given you the option for multi-cast and for de-cast, they aren't going to change the overall design philosophy of an Aggro draw ability just because you want them to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 часа назад, Birdframe_Prime сказал:

In fact, at the very least, a good Titania mod setup would include a little Efficiency to help out the Duration in reducing her Razorwing costs. So, at the very most that should be 52 energy on a frame that can have an energy pool of 637 energy and has now got a Vacuum on her to pick up orbs without too much effort. (Actually, there's also builds that benefit from having a Fleeting in place of that Streamline, which reduces the cost of Razorwing down to just 1.25 energy per second, and then her Lantern only costs 30, while both her 1 and 2 only cost 10.) It's quite the way of freeing up more casts.

Even full energy efficiency and 637 energy reserve, zenuric and 1 AE do not save you from situations where you are left without energy. If you play in party-this saves, but only if mobs less 200 levels. If you play solo, there is a lack of energy.

And you can't well spam abilities when in razorwing, otherwise you will be left without energy.

Edited by zhellon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The changes Titania is receiving is good but she needs a lot more than that. Here is what I would do to improver her abilities;

 

1st ability:

·       Increase ability radius from 5m to 10m.

·       Instead of them rag dolling, make them just hover in the air.

·       Enemies affected are vulnerable to damage.

·       Shooting enemies will have a 50% chance to drop health orbs. When picked up, it will send out a 15m wave of health regeneration giving her and allies 10 health a second for 5 seconds.

Synergy: if you use the 2nd ability on an enemy affected by the 1st ability, they have a 75% chance to drop energy orbs. It can also move the hovering enemy.

 

2nd ability:

·       All buffs effectiveness will be increased to 75%.

·       The range of enemies affected should be in a 50m radius.

·       Thorns – the damage reflection should be 1000+ to make it useful. This can be increased by strength mods

·       Full Moon – it should also increase companion’s and butterfly’s movement speed.

·       Buffs should be absorbed into her no matter the distance.

·       Enemies that survive the hit their damage output is reduced by 50%.

Synergy: dust & thorns applies to 4th ability butterflies.

 

3rd ability:

·       Each enemy affected will increase the range by 2m to a cap of 10m.

·       You can shoot at affected enemy loading elemental damage into it depending on what mods you have on your weapons. The butterflies and the explosion will release the elemental damage. Visually loading fire damage will show the butterflies and enemies on fire and will show fire explosion upon deactivation.

 

4th ability:

·       While using 4th ability, make the other ability cost half the energy.

·       While having the diwata (exalted sword) equipped, you can close the gap on enemies within 35m. This makes it to where you can reach the enemies quicker.

·       She is able to interact with the environmental objects while in this form. (hacking, opening doors)

·       (Synergy) If you cast the 1st ability on enemies, it will give the diwata 30% more damage when used on them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the idea of razorwing having two phases, where the first activation of the ability does not cost energy drain and allows you to use normal weapons, the second activation of the ability or the first activation with hold activates Dex Pixia/Divata and evasion, but includes energy drain, and button hold while in razorwing provides an exit from razorwing. Energy drain does make a lot of dirt, while I agree that Dex Pixia/Divata should cost energy drain, but I don't need them all the time.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She needs more synergy with her own kit. Spellbind is being used as a hard cast for Razorwing blitz, not for its CC. A synergy can be introduced where being near a lantern while under the effects of spellbind will heal the player. This also gives her more into a support role, ie  healing allies.

Entangle needs to put enemies to a dead stop. 25% movement speed debuff does literally nothing in ANY mode.

Edited by Aadi880
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Efficiency is a thing... magic...

In fact, at the very least, a good Titania mod setup would include a little Efficiency to help out the Duration in reducing her Razorwing costs. So, at the very most that should be 52 energy on a frame that can have an energy pool of 637 energy and has now got a Vacuum on her to pick up orbs without too much effort. (Actually, there's also builds that benefit from having a Fleeting in place of that Streamline, which reduces the cost of Razorwing down to just 1.25 energy per second, and then her Lantern only costs 30, while both her 1 and 2 only cost 10.) It's quite the way of freeing up more casts.

Lancers and other ranged enemies do cover. It would make for a good counter. Except for every single unit that charges you, tries to grapple you, or already stands up in front of you to try and out-tank you with either a Shield, a Gorgon or an Ogris coincidentally also rallying the cowering ranged enemy to group up behind it. Right smack in the places where enemies are going to walk again in the future, exactly where you'd want to place a Lantern.

No, you can't prevent your own team from killing them, but the whole point of 'draw' abilities like Lantern is that they do rely on you casting them and then on the enemies going to them, not the ability going to the enemies. And if that draw has a large range, or huge aggro, then you do have to re-cast it when you want it somewhere else. Loki's Decoy and Saryn's Molt are two of the best and you can't do anything about where they are without either a re-cast, or Loki's switch teleport which costs more than the recast would.

Or you have abilities that draw aggro that you can't control at all, her previous Lantern was the example of that, and Nyx's Mind Control is another. The Aggro draw subject follows its own rules and while you can give it a nudge every now and then, that's it, it's not yours to control.

Octavia's Resonator is another good one, because unless you specifically Augment it, the base ability not only roams around where you can't predict, it also steals your source of damage and takes that around too. Heck, maybe you could campaign to change Titania's Lantern augment to allow this instead? That might work.

There are drawbacks to all of these aggro-draw abilities. Before, the drawback was that the ability did move, that it did float around, which was actually DE's solution to this exact problem; you could literally hit the enemy to make it go somewhere more useful and, because you could fly around in Razorwing, pushing it down to the ground again was supposed to be easy.

Players wanted that to stop, they wanted it to be tethered, they didn't care that you could manually reposition it, and if you'll notice DE listened. But there you see DE built in that drawback to the ability again, it now doesn't move, like the other stationary aggro draw abilities.

DE have given you the option for multi-cast and for de-cast, they aren't going to change the overall design philosophy of an Aggro draw ability just because you want them to.

Here I'll repeat what I'm asking for a couple times so you can kinda get what I'm saying and can't quote it out, and try and explain it in the simplest terms possible. I want, that is to say me, the ability to move the anchored lantern, that is to say Titania's 3 which is dependent on enemy position and not your cursor like Molt or Decoy, 3-5m so that if an ally does a slam attack I can move the enemy out from behind the wall they were slammed into, because Lantern, Titania's 3, is tied to enemy position, limited to line of sight, and costs the most out of any decoy ability. Octavia's costs 50 energy and she regens energy and resonator is even cheaper and has a huge radius, Saryn's costs 50 energy and can heal her with an augment so she tends to use rage, Loki's costs 25 energy and can save him from death(in theory, it has so little health).

Basically I want some kind of compromise between "the lantern keeps being flung away because everybody can have a knife with 5m+ of range, get ready to play bubble ghost again" and "too bad, you just wasted your energy because the line of sight is picky and an ally flung them behind a wall, now no enemy is even going to see the lantern". It has too many drawbacks to be useful, right now it costs the most out of similar abilities, is on a frame that's designed to be in an exalted weapon all the time constantly draining energy, is dependent on enemy positioning, line of sight, only passively does damage inside of 2.5m, and has a cast animation of 1.3 seconds(mag's crush is 1.5) on an ability heavily dependent on that enemy being alive and in the position you want.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Braneman said:

I want, that is to say me

Yes, we know.

8 hours ago, Braneman said:

the ability to move the anchored lantern

Something that DE deliberately removed.

8 hours ago, Braneman said:

so that if an ally does a slam attack I can move the enemy out from behind the wall they were slammed into

The anchored enemy? The one that now doesn't move if an enemy does a slam attack? And will always stay where that enemy was when you cast it on them? So all you have to do is pick an enemy that's not in cover like the ones that I mentioned? The ones that stand in the middle of the road and try to shoot you, or the ones that charge directly to your location and you can physically lead them to where you need them if you want?

8 hours ago, Braneman said:

Octavia's costs 50 energy and she regens energy

Her passive, not her ability. And as I said, unless you augment her ability it is AI controlled and takes your damage ability with it so that your placement of that is also going to be ruined.

8 hours ago, Braneman said:

Saryn's costs 50 energy and can heal her with an augment

The base doesn't, it's an augment, I already said if you want to campaign to change Titania's augment then you might get that. Molt costs more than Decoy because it offers a speed boost on cast, scales like Iron Skin and the de-cast or destruction deals radial damage.

8 hours ago, Braneman said:

Loki's costs 25 energy and can save him from death(in theory, it has so little health)

The lack of health is why it costs 25 and doesn't scale like Molt nor does it deal damage.

Titania's, on the other hand, creates an invulnerable lure that doesn't just draw, it will now (because of the consistent tether) deal reasonable damage to all enemies it draws, plus you can detonate it for reasonable damage at any time like Molt as well.

What you may have missed from my point is this, then:

When the only drawback to an ability is it relies on you picking out the correct enemy to cast it on and that the cast then doesn't move (just like more than half the other draw casts in game), then as a result it creates an immortal lure that enemies are drawn towards in a non-aggressive state (like Djinn's Fatal Attraction) rather than firing weapons or even moving fast, it deals damage over time to them and can be detonated at any time for further damage, and you can have up to 4 of these running at once? That's worth 75 Energy in the balance of Draw Abilities.

I mean, it could be worse, you could have Spectrorage.

Despite your opinion on wanting to move it, it's something DE actually took out. They aren't going to put in a manual move function when you have the other options available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 часов назад, Braneman сказал:

Loki's costs 25 energy and can save him from death(in theory, it has so little health).

23 минуты назад, Birdframe_Prime сказал:

The lack of health is why it costs 25 and doesn't scale like Molt nor does it deal damage.

Titania's, on the other hand, creates an invulnerable lure that doesn't just draw, it will now (because of the consistent tether) deal reasonable damage to all enemies it draws, plus you can detonate it for reasonable damage at any time like Molt as well.

Only you forgot one thing. Decoy works through walls, so you can just shoot down ranged mobs because they just won't be able to shoot Decoy. Or you can actually use walls to set up the route of enemies. In any case, you know that enemies will not shoot at you if you are further than 7 meters and decoy is alive, no matter where it is.

Lantern - has a radius, depends on the position of the enemy, does not pass through walls and even small irregularities on the floor and has aggression in the form of small ticks, so a small fps bug and you will die. Oh, and the nullifier will just ignore this unlike decoy.

You are comparing a powerful tactical tool against a meh ability. If razorfly could be hidden behind a wall, it would work better than Lantern. 

Now let's compare this to Wisp's 2.

 

Edited by zhellon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Lantern -

The aggro pings per second were because of the free-floating mechanic to update the position enemies should go to as it moved. It's just about to be updated to work on the same mechanic as Gara's Blood Altar, meaning it won't be a free-floating object that changes position, so should, logically, no longer need any form of aggro ping per second. So... what?

And again with trying to make relying on enemy position a down side, you cast the ability where the enemies are and... wait, that means more enemies are likely to be within its range more regularly because you aren't trying to make them path to somewhere different, they're literally running into it anyway because you've cast it where they would normally path.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 минут назад, Birdframe_Prime сказал:

The aggro pings per second were because of the free-floating mechanic to update the position enemies should go to as it moved. It's just about to be updated to work on the same mechanic as Gara's Blood Altar, meaning it won't be a free-floating object that changes position, so should, logically, no longer need any form of aggro ping per second. So... what?

And again with trying to make relying on enemy position a down side, you cast the ability where the enemies are and... wait, that means more enemies are likely to be within its range more regularly because you aren't trying to make them path to somewhere different, they're literally running into it anyway because you've cast it where they would normally path.

I'm talking to the fact that you are comparing 2 different tools. I would compare Lantern to mag gravity shields. But, mag protects from bullets, so same collects enemies in together, passes through wall and is worth 50 energy. So does nuck. The only problem is that the gravity shield has a small radius, but you're OK with that, because long-range attacks aren't able to hit you while you're in it. At the same time, Lantern can only collect enemies in a pile and do small damage for 75 energy. Yes, Lantern has a sooo good radius, but most of the missions are about narrow corridors and many shelters in open areas, and since the Lantern does not pass through walls, this is a useless radius in most cases.

People correctly say that Titania must be able to place her Lantern without an enemy in order to be able to place the Lantern so that the walls will no longer be a problem. And razorwing gives flight, so you can place the Lantern at a height covering a large area and ignoring small walls and shelters. The problem is that Lantern is an ability that needs to be positioned, but we don't have any ways to do it other than harpoon guns. Or do they want us to use spellbind to position enemies when it's not physically possible?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 час назад, yles9056 сказал:

Everyone here is discussing about Lantern, but I just hope DE could buff Diwata.

I wouldn't mind if DE given the option to use a normal weapon + damage buff, instead of an exalted weapon that doesn't have anything unique. Divata Buff? Yes, it will be cool, but it is always possible a situation like with Wukong, when the weapon will look good, and then the system will change and the weapon will be located underground in terms of utility. This can never happen with normal weapons, because the problem of normal weapons is a global problem.

Edited by zhellon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My thoughts are:

First of all: Diwata needs a buff, at least if they don't plan on allowing certain mods on Exalted weapons in the near future finally.

Lantern is good and its a good Quality of Life change.

Tribute gets a nice quality of life change/update for abilities that function like this. Assuming this is also applied to Grendel's 2, because it wouldn't make any sense if it's not, as simply the new way abilities like that work.

Tribute however still needs 2 more useful auras, or at least the ability for Entangle's slow to scale and Full Moon to apply to more things.

Spellbind right now is purely a status blocking buff, there is no reason to use it as crowd control over what Lantern provides in my experience. Keeping the status immunity is nice of course, but it either needs to compromise affected enemies further while also keeping them steadier, or it needs a major overhaul. Personally I'd change it to be more akin to Harrow's 1, wherein Titania shoots a swarm of Razorflies forward that grab onto and hold the enemies, nesting in them, and killing such infested enemies spawns 1-3 razorflies that seek out nearby enemies and suicide bomb into them, inflicting them with bleed (but no initial damage).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...