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VenomousValentine

Let's talk about conclave.

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more appropriately suited in the actual Conclave section, but w/e.

 

having trouble finding Players is ofcourse just the end result of having literally negative Rewards (yes, actually worse than no Rewards), among a couple other ancillary things but really so very much that even if you like Conclave you have to play the game twice as many hours as you would already be playing it since you can't get anything for playing Conclave, you have to spend hundreds of hours per month to acquire things. so you have to double your playtime to play it which is just asking something ridiculous of Players.
and it's negative Rewards because of that facet, that playing it means not playing the rest of the game which means not collecting any of the 25825829365 types of Credits that you need to collect to collect trinkets to store in your Inventory.

your suggested Reward amounts wouldn't fly in a million years, since it would be competitive at worst with the entire rest of the game, and that's just not going to work. Conclave should give actually useful Rewards, but they HAVE to be inefficient compared to playing the rest of the game (unfortunately, for the most part). we're talking half as efficient at best, probably 25-30% as efficient.
but that's okay, being able to accrue that stuff at some passable rate is already leagues ahead of where we are and means you wouldn't need to double your play time just to play Conclave. you could already remove most of your playtime of the rest of the game. so people that can't just play Video Games during all waking hours could play it if they wanted to.

 

next, is Gamemode options - the stuff already offered is alright, but Variants are just straight nonexistent even though they already add so much extra variety but you're just not allowed to play them. and then all sorts of new things can be created, following the 'DNA' of Variants already has a lot of options. Rocket Launchers only, Guns only, you can go off the deep end too and make truly strange modifiers that add or change features, doesn't have to only be Equipment restrictions.
and as i've tried to note many times, Conclave doesn't need to be exclusively PvP Gamemodes, it can also house competitive type Gameplay. where Players compete against each other, but in an indirect way. that is so sorely missing from being an option to let the toxic Players possibly play Conclave a bit and perhaps even pull that stick out of where it is.

 

 

but Rewards is really the big one honestly - the game is fundamentally about collecting stuff, and you need to collect stuff to play Conclave too - but the game doesn't respect the Player about this, even practically the opposite.
you'll never grow the popularity of something in a game about collecting stuff if the game asks you to first collect everything and then play even more than already to play __ thing too.

19 hours ago, AlmightyPancake said:

and likely to create more toxicity in their game than they want.

the Conclave Community are literally the least toxic Players in the game.
the 99% of the Community are incredibly toxic. that definition applies to more than just whether or not people say certain words or Et Cetera, you know. actions matter too. 

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9 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Are you sure about that? Have you seen Overwatch’s competitive match chat and LoL? Reading them is disgusting. I believe the toxic PvE part you are saying is probably come Raid Missions, where that mode means “No mistake on the slightest or lose”.

All PvP games are subject to high level of toxicity because of Rank and K/D pressure. Even if you rework Conclave the “friendly” state will only last for a brief moment after that it will be a toxic wasteland.

I was expecting a toxic environment when going into the conclave, I've been playing for 3 days now. I was really surprised when that turned out NOT to be the case.

The first thing someone said when speaking directly to me was "ns", I was actually taken a back. I've seen a little bit of banter that goes back and forth between players in conclave matches, the most toxic thing I've seen was someone referring to someone else's kit as a "coward's load-out", which is nothing when it comes to how toxic people get in PvE. I actually feel welcome in the matches.

When it comes to the regular game (PvE) half the time when someone enters something in chat it's just basically telling someone off or some other toxic remark. I don't really need to go into detail, but people talk crap all the time in pubs (me included). In Warframe PvE is much more toxic than PvP.

 

How about instead of talking about how toxic other PvP games are and applying that to conclave you figure it out for yourself. Saying that conclave is toxic because players in a completely different game (Overwatch) are toxic doesn't make sense.

Edited by SpringRocker

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57 minutes ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

It's underrepresented because it's literally the worst pvp I've ever seen in my life. 

This isn't just because PVP is objectively a bad thing, which it is, it's just, the worst, at being something that isn't good to begin with. I would all together be more interested in a system where your goal is to complete objectives. Some of your objectives if you complete them first cause a setback to other teams objectives. The team that completes the objectives first wins. 

Wargame scenarios don't just involve running around shooting at each other. That's literally only target practice and is by far the least relevant of anything you would be doing in a wargame scenario. It's mostly about completing the objectives you have in the time allowed. That's a kind of competition i could get into where the goal isn't who can donkypunch someone dead fastest, but rather how good you personally are at doing what needs to be done. 

Standard shooter pvp of one player shooting another is derivative, and a little pathetic. While people will talk about "tactics" it's mostly just "rush and maybe they'll miss more shots than we do".

No one should feel pride at managing to keep a crosshair on another target in a videogame. It's entirely superior to have competitive be about completing objectives rather than specifically having one player shooting at another. 

Which is something that I would be open to seeing. Dont remove deathmatch, but if there were competitive objective based pvp with combat in between I would be perfectly satisfied with that. So long as Im competing against another human that's enough to keep it from getting stale for me.

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10 minutes ago, VenomousValentine said:

Which is something that I would be open to seeing. Dont remove deathmatch, but if there were competitive objective based pvp with combat in between I would be perfectly satisfied with that. So long as Im competing against another human that's enough to keep it from getting stale for me.

I'm sure they have competitive escape rooms somewhere... The idea is things one team does can either set back the other team and slow them down, or if you don't do it or do it wrong, you can actually speed them up in reaching the objective. 

Someone once said the only way to take out an integrated defense system is to dis-integrate it. Taking out power grid here, a rocket there, little by little by nibbling at the edges you collapse the infostructure that allows for rapid response to a threat. For tenno, that kind of training would be very valuable because regardless of the hoard shooter this has become, the game did get it's origin in stealth mechanics. Especially if it actually relies on team work.

I'd rather this be a hybrid of PVE and pvp, only... not S#&$ like Destiny's gambit is. Use pve elements like defense, spy, etc... only make some of them require individual ability, while others require team work. Control the point, if you fail the enemy will gain ground. Your team must now reach the objectives I have marked, once you arrive you will have to gain access, setting off alarms will lower your score, once you have gained access you will have to hack and gain access to the consoles in the order I specify. Regroup, you must escort a target... Rapid changes to game play modes that some demand individual skill and others demand teamwork...  You're competing against four other teams, anything they do better than you is a potential set back for you, because it can cause more powerful enemies to appear or put up barriers that cost you time, anything you do better can set them back... Making the whole situation very fluid.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

I'm sure they have competitive escape rooms somewhere... The idea is things one team does can either set back the other team and slow them down, or if you don't do it or do it wrong, you can actually speed them up in reaching the objective. 

Someone once said the only way to take out an integrated defense system is to dis-integrate it. Taking out power grid here, a rocket there, little by little by nibbling at the edges you collapse the infostructure that allows for rapid response to a threat. For tenno, that kind of training would be very valuable because regardless of the hoard shooter this has become, the game did get it's origin in stealth mechanics. Especially if it actually relies on team work.

I'd rather this be a hybrid of PVE and pvp, only... not S#&$ like Destiny's gambit is. Use pve elements like defense, spy, etc... only make some of them require individual ability, while others require team work. Control the point, if you fail the enemy will gain ground. Your team must now reach the objectives I have marked, once you arrive you will have to gain access, setting off alarms will lower your score, once you have gained access you will have to hack and gain access to the consoles in the order I specify. Regroup, you must escort a target... Rapid changes to game play modes that some demand individual skill and others demand teamwork...  You're competing against four other teams, anything they do better than you is a potential set back for you, because it can cause more powerful enemies to appear or put up barriers that cost you time, anything you do better can set them back... Making the whole situation very fluid.

I would be open to having it, but not if you're going to be closed minded to the alternative. I would love to see pvpve, competitive objectives (especially those with combat still a staple for impeding others) but to say that those who enjoy the fast twitch quick time reactions of straight deathmatch pvp are somehow lesser because "anyone can do it" is just callous.

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2 minutes ago, VenomousValentine said:

I would be open to having it, but not if you're going to be closed minded to the alternative. I would love to see pvpve, competitive objectives (especially those with combat still a staple for impeding others) but to say that those who enjoy the fast twitch quick time reactions of straight deathmatch pvp are somehow lesser because "anyone can do it" is just callous.

I didn't say "anyone can do it", I said simply shooting at each other is only target practice. Saying that any PVP gameplay has to have you directly against another player is just as bad as saying you absolutely can't have it. I'm suggesting an alternative for people who specifically don't want what you want. The simple truth is that part of why pvp doesn't get much love is because not enough people in this fanbase want what it is you want. 

If you give people things to do that are competitive but not player kill centered, it will get more people interested in conclaive and less *@##$ing about it. And maybe, just maybe, it'll get more people INTO matches if they feel like giving it a shot. 

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31 minutes ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

I didn't say "anyone can do it", I said simply shooting at each other is only target practice. Saying that any PVP gameplay has to have you directly against another player is just as bad as saying you absolutely can't have it. I'm suggesting an alternative for people who specifically don't want what you want. The simple truth is that part of why pvp doesn't get much love is because not enough people in this fanbase want what it is you want. 

If you give people things to do that are competitive but not player kill centered, it will get more people interested in conclaive and less *@##$ing about it. And maybe, just maybe, it'll get more people INTO matches if they feel like giving it a shot. 

These things aren't mutually exclusive. And yeah the people already in the fanbase are mostly set into the gameplay loop. A revitalized conclave would bring in new people who DO want this. But obviously having both would be ideal.

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4 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

I was expecting a toxic environment when going into the conclave, I've been playing for 3 days now. I was really surprised when that turned out NOT to be the case.

The first thing someone said when speaking directly to me was "ns", I was actually taken a back. I've seen a little bit of banter that goes back and forth between players in conclave matches, the most toxic thing I've seen was someone referring to someone else's kit as a "coward's load-out", which is nothing when it comes to how toxic people get in PvE. I actually feel welcome in the matches.

When it comes to the regular game (PvE) half the time when someone enters something in chat it's just basically telling someone off or some other toxic remark. I don't really need to go into detail, but people talk crap all the time in pubs (me included). In Warframe PvE is much more toxic than PvP.

 

How about instead of talking about how toxic other PvP games are and applying that to conclave you figure it out for yourself. Saying that conclave is toxic because players in a completely different game (Overwatch) are toxic doesn't make sense.

Conclave is a ghost town, it’s obvious toxicity level is “lower than average”. Will that change if millions of people play the game mode right now? I’ve played popular competitive PvP games and Casual PvP since day 1 of release before stumbling into Warframe. They all suffer the same fate.

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Yep. Warframe PvE often has a very nice atmosphere in which people are just happy to help a player along if they're struggling with something or have questions, in part because it's an ego boost to be able to do that. In an environment where just showing up means you have a shared niche interest in something, you're going to see some of that attitude there too.

In PvE, of course, we also have things like that feeling of "ugh, it's another Rhino with a Catchmoon, how exciting" or the player who starts that next excavator in a fissure when you all have three reactant. 

So when PvP isn't already a special occasion just for being there anymore, and you get nailed for the sixth time in a row by the latest meta cheese you can't stand....

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1 hour ago, CopperBezel said:

Yep. Warframe PvE often has a very nice atmosphere in which people are just happy to help a player along if they're struggling with something or have questions, in part because it's an ego boost to be able to do that. In an environment where just showing up means you have a shared niche interest in something, you're going to see some of that attitude there too.

In PvE, of course, we also have things like that feeling of "ugh, it's another Rhino with a Catchmoon, how exciting" or the player who starts that next excavator in a fissure when you all have three reactant. 

So when PvP isn't already a special occasion just for being there anymore, and you get nailed for the sixth time in a row by the latest meta cheese you can't stand....

 

1 hour ago, DrivaMain said:

Conclave is a ghost town, it’s obvious toxicity level is “lower than average”. Will that change if millions of people play the game mode right now? I’ve played popular competitive PvP games and Casual PvP since day 1 of release before stumbling into Warframe. They all suffer the same fate.

But moreover, why does people being S#&$ty mean we can't have something cool and fun?

People are $&*^weeds everywhere. Why let that get in the way of content?

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From my perspective, it's not so much that we can't have nice things, just that I don't think there's a strong case for why Warframe would get out of any of those problems free, either. The last PvP squad shooter I played, I had to leave chat turned off. On the scale of "Conclave players are perfect angels so Conclave could never be toxic" to "Getting a decent number of players into PvP will create too much toxicity for DE to handle", I'm sitting at "It's a reasonable concern to have and something that's going to require attention to manage." 

As for the topic more generally, whether I think reworking Conclave would be a good use of resources, I really think that right now, DE have a lot of outstanding commitments to attend to, and Conclave has this issue of being almost a separate game like Railjack does, one that all of our equipment from PvE has to be translated over into, but plays completely differently, etc. To me, even the attention taken to maintain it in its present state is a bit questionable. It's not that I don't think PvP or competitive PvE stuff in some form could be fun and worth doing, I'm just not sure that Conclave as it is really even provides a very good starting point for it.

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8 hours ago, taiiat said:

more appropriately suited in the actual Conclave section, but w/e.

 

having trouble finding Players is ofcourse just the end result of having literally negative Rewards (yes, actually worse than no Rewards), among a couple other ancillary things but really so very much that even if you like Conclave you have to play the game twice as many hours as you would already be playing it since you can't get anything for playing Conclave, you have to spend hundreds of hours per month to acquire things. so you have to double your playtime to play it which is just asking something ridiculous of Players.
and it's negative Rewards because of that facet, that playing it means not playing the rest of the game which means not collecting any of the 25825829365 types of Credits that you need to collect to collect trinkets to store in your Inventory.

your suggested Reward amounts wouldn't fly in a million years, since it would be competitive at worst with the entire rest of the game, and that's just not going to work. Conclave should give actually useful Rewards, but they HAVE to be inefficient compared to playing the rest of the game (unfortunately, for the most part). we're talking half as efficient at best, probably 25-30% as efficient.
but that's okay, being able to accrue that stuff at some passable rate is already leagues ahead of where we are and means you wouldn't need to double your play time just to play Conclave. you could already remove most of your playtime of the rest of the game. so people that can't just play Video Games during all waking hours could play it if they wanted to.

 

next, is Gamemode options - the stuff already offered is alright, but Variants are just straight nonexistent even though they already add so much extra variety but you're just not allowed to play them. and then all sorts of new things can be created, following the 'DNA' of Variants already has a lot of options. Rocket Launchers only, Guns only, you can go off the deep end too and make truly strange modifiers that add or change features, doesn't have to only be Equipment restrictions.
and as i've tried to note many times, Conclave doesn't need to be exclusively PvP Gamemodes, it can also house competitive type Gameplay. where Players compete against each other, but in an indirect way. that is so sorely missing from being an option to let the toxic Players possibly play Conclave a bit and perhaps even pull that stick out of where it is.

 

 

but Rewards is really the big one honestly - the game is fundamentally about collecting stuff, and you need to collect stuff to play Conclave too - but the game doesn't respect the Player about this, even practically the opposite.
you'll never grow the popularity of something in a game about collecting stuff if the game asks you to first collect everything and then play even more than already to play __ thing too.

the Conclave Community are literally the least toxic Players in the game.
the 99% of the Community are incredibly toxic. that definition applies to more than just whether or not people say certain words or Et Cetera, you know. actions matter too. 

Thanks for saying this! I would love to do things like crack relics while playing conclave, even if it's much slower than the PvE rate. I've also found the conclave community to be remarkably non-toxic, some of the nicest and most fun people to play with are hanging out in the conclave 🙂 

8 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

I was expecting a toxic environment when going into the conclave, I've been playing for 3 days now. I was really surprised when that turned out NOT to be the case.

The first thing someone said when speaking directly to me was "ns", I was actually taken a back. I've seen a little bit of banter that goes back and forth between players in conclave matches, the most toxic thing I've seen was someone referring to someone else's kit as a "coward's load-out", which is nothing when it comes to how toxic people get in PvE. I actually feel welcome in the matches.

When it comes to the regular game (PvE) half the time when someone enters something in chat it's just basically telling someone off or some other toxic remark. I don't really need to go into detail, but people talk crap all the time in pubs (me included). In Warframe PvE is much more toxic than PvP.

 

How about instead of talking about how toxic other PvP games are and applying that to conclave you figure it out for yourself. Saying that conclave is toxic because players in a completely different game (Overwatch) are toxic doesn't make sense.

I'm glad you've found the same thing as me! I started to think I was going crazy thinking PvE was more toxic than PvP, since reading the forums would indicate the opposite. Especially since railjack, people have said awful things to me that I have never experienced in conclave. 

 

7 hours ago, VenomousValentine said:

I would be open to having it, but not if you're going to be closed minded to the alternative. I would love to see pvpve, competitive objectives (especially those with combat still a staple for impeding others) but to say that those who enjoy the fast twitch quick time reactions of straight deathmatch pvp are somehow lesser because "anyone can do it" is just callous.

I agree with you here, I would also definitely play PvEvP modes, and honestly think it would revitalize the game in a lot of ways. 

3 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

Yep. Warframe PvE often has a very nice atmosphere in which people are just happy to help a player along if they're struggling with something or have questions, in part because it's an ego boost to be able to do that. In an environment where just showing up means you have a shared niche interest in something, you're going to see some of that attitude there too.

In PvE, of course, we also have things like that feeling of "ugh, it's another Rhino with a Catchmoon, how exciting" or the player who starts that next excavator in a fissure when you all have three reactant. 

So when PvP isn't already a special occasion just for being there anymore, and you get nailed for the sixth time in a row by the latest meta cheese you can't stand....

Yeah you're right here, the lack of attention and updates to conclave has created so many silly cheese tactics 😞 hopefully they'll get around to fixing them eventually! I agree that warframe's PvE has always felt like it has a nice atmosphere to me too, but 99% of public missions I do result in nobody saying a word to each other. I'm generally an optimist, so I always assumed the people playing with me were nice. Since railjack that's changed... people are mean!

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8 hours ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

It's underrepresented because it's literally the worst pvp I've ever seen in my life. 

This isn't just because PVP is objectively a bad thing, which it is, it's just, the worst, at being something that isn't good to begin with. I would all together be more interested in a system where your goal is to complete objectives. Some of your objectives if you complete them first cause a setback to other teams objectives. The team that completes the objectives first wins. 

Wargame scenarios don't just involve running around shooting at each other. That's literally only target practice and is by far the least relevant of anything you would be doing in a wargame scenario. It's mostly about completing the objectives you have in the time allowed. That's a kind of competition i could get into where the goal isn't who can donkypunch someone dead fastest, but rather how good you personally are at doing what needs to be done. 

Standard shooter pvp of one player shooting another is derivative, and a little pathetic. While people will talk about "tactics" it's mostly just "rush and maybe they'll miss more shots than we do".

No one should feel pride at managing to keep a crosshair on another target in a videogame. It's entirely superior to have competitive be about completing objectives rather than specifically having one player shooting at another. 

Thats some quite subjective rant there ngl...

I mean...

In a shooter its literally the main goal to keep your crosshair on the opponent as much as possible to keep the ttk as minimal as possible and don't give your opponent an inch. In short: to shoot your opponent better than he shoots you. And afaik Warframe ever was and still is advertised as a "Looter Shooter" despite all that one button aoe nuke stuff.

Beside the mikro skill for aiming you also got the movement as an important factor in Warframe. And on top of these two mikro skill factors one can build some makro skills with tactics for example: how and when and where you want to engage or disengage from fights or simple positioning that allows you to have an advantage over your opponent by simply being at the right time at the right place. These both skill sets, mikro and makro, will grow with your game experience. And thats literally what Conclave is about... A training ground to train your shooter skill sets within the game in an arena player versus player setting. Conclave is a classic arena shooter with the simple and traditional game modes 'Free for All/Deathmatch' (Annihilation), 'Team Deathmatch' (Team Annihilation) and 'Capture the Flag' (Capture the Cephalon). (excluding Lunaro for Rocket league reasons, but even there you have to aim and 'shoot' the ball with your crosshair)

The only major difference between Conclave and other pvp shooter games is the unique movement system.

Sure it has balance and bug issues due to its code being tied to pve development and sure Ccpt. and Lunaro have their own issues as modes aswell and sure... a lot of people would like to see other game modes being added to Conclave. (pvx and pvp) Even something objective based similar to pve missions in a pure pvp setting like mobile def or interception, etc could work. But that'll require DE to work on and polish Conclave again, which this post is about.

 

Btw even these objective based Hero shooters like Overwatch require basic shooter skill sets to disrupt your opposing team as much as possible and succeed in the end.(even as melee character you'd have to point your crosshair into the direction you wanna hit) 😉

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7 hours ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

I'd rather this be a hybrid of PVE and pvp

You might like this idea then:

 

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18 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

From my perspective, it's not so much that we can't have nice things, just that I don't think there's a strong case for why Warframe would get out of any of those problems free, either. The last PvP squad shooter I played, I had to leave chat turned off. On the scale of "Conclave players are perfect angels so Conclave could never be toxic" to "Getting a decent number of players into PvP will create too much toxicity for DE to handle", I'm sitting at "It's a reasonable concern to have and something that's going to require attention to manage." 

As for the topic more generally, whether I think reworking Conclave would be a good use of resources, I really think that right now, DE have a lot of outstanding commitments to attend to, and Conclave has this issue of being almost a separate game like Railjack does, one that all of our equipment from PvE has to be translated over into, but plays completely differently, etc. To me, even the attention taken to maintain it in its present state is a bit questionable. It's not that I don't think PvP or competitive PvE stuff in some form could be fun and worth doing, I'm just not sure that Conclave as it is really even provides a very good starting point for it.

See that's why they would hire a new team like i said in my post.

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On 2020-02-02 at 10:44 AM, CopperBezel said:

From my perspective, it's not so much that we can't have nice things, just that I don't think there's a strong case for why Warframe would get out of any of those problems free, either. The last PvP squad shooter I played, I had to leave chat turned off. On the scale of "Conclave players are perfect angels so Conclave could never be toxic" to "Getting a decent number of players into PvP will create too much toxicity for DE to handle", I'm sitting at "It's a reasonable concern to have and something that's going to require attention to manage." 

As for the topic more generally, whether I think reworking Conclave would be a good use of resources, I really think that right now, DE have a lot of outstanding commitments to attend to, and Conclave has this issue of being almost a separate game like Railjack does, one that all of our equipment from PvE has to be translated over into, but plays completely differently, etc. To me, even the attention taken to maintain it in its present state is a bit questionable. It's not that I don't think PvP or competitive PvE stuff in some form could be fun and worth doing, I'm just not sure that Conclave as it is really even provides a very good starting point for it.

I've often thought about what you mention here. You're certainly right that in any large enough segment of players there will be toxic ones. The question I would be interested in finding an answer for is "Why is the current conclave population far less toxic than one might expect?" I think it might have to do with precisely the fact that the rewards are so bad, so everybody playing conclave is doing so because they genuinely like the game-mode. [to be taken with a grain of salt, there are obviously those who have discovered the current slide melee bug and are farming the skins using this method as fast as they can!] The point remains, however, that the majority of longtime conclavers have stuck around despite the terrible rewards - and are therefore not the type of player that gets toxic.

If conclave was worked on, got proper rewards and balance, etc... and became popular, this might be an avenue to attracting the more toxic types of players. [Try joining a public railjack squad and asking if you can pilot for a bit, or refining at the wrong time, or various other heinous crimes (sarcasm) and you'll find those types of players!] Personally, I would rather have conclave worked on because I think it has tremendous potential, and a healthy PvP scene would be good for the game in the long term. 

I understand your point about resources, but the great thing about PvP is that the resource cost is negligible in comparison to new PvE updates. Not only that, but it gives players something to do when they've "finished" the PvE stuff, thus staving off the "content drought" complaints, relieving the pressure on developers so they can make sure new updates are polished upon release. I think that the resources spent on hotfixing all the broken stuff that was released before it was ready is far greater than the resources that would ever be needed to keep PvP healthy. 

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On 2020-02-01 at 5:21 AM, VenomousValentine said:

The truth is, I feel like nobody plays pvp, not because they dislike pvp, but because the pvp in this game is BAD

You come so close to the proper conclusion but you end up falling short. 
 

Conclave isn't a bad system. It has just been horribly mismanaged over the course of the last two years. When Conclave works, it stands up as one of the best arena shooters of all time. When it doesn't, you get something awful. Because of DE's mismanagement of the mode, the community has come to conflate the awful state the mode is in, with the quality of the mode itself.

There are also countless players in the community who jumped on the bandwagon of "PvP bad xd" without ever trying the mode to begin with. These players happen to be very vocal about their unfounded hatred of the mode, too.

On 2020-02-01 at 5:21 AM, VenomousValentine said:

Reason 1: A new crowd of players to appeal to.
Plenty of people do NOT like PVE shooters. This is a LARGE swathe of people alienated by warframe that could be pulled in. Do you know how many destiny players I've met that said "I'd switch to warframe if it had pvp" They didn't even know it had pvp because of how under represented it is. Not that that would matter because it's a S#&$show in it's current state.

Okay. I agree with this. I didn't like the PvE in this game at first, I still don't like it now either. I do it to unlock new weapons and stay up to date on the ever shifting PvP meta. I do the PvE to help my clan and even make some platinum if I am lucky. 
PvP in Warframe is criminally underrated and underrepresented given it's unique features and unmatched quality. If it just had some more polish and some more advertisement, Conclave would be huge.

Conclave isn't bad because Conclave is inherently bad. Conclave is bad because DE has let problems fester for the last two and a half years,

On 2020-02-01 at 5:21 AM, VenomousValentine said:

Problem 1: Lack of updates, balance, and maintenance.
that's an easy one. DE isn't a small company anymore. Yeah nobody there has experience or qualifications dealing with a pvp based setting. But the thing is, DE could easily hire a conclave team. And if they did it right, it would easily pay for itself with the new players it would not only pull in, but retain. And by hiring a new devoted team to exclusively PVP, not only would those interested in pvp be getting higher quality updates, it also wouldn't take time or effort away from the mainline devs. PVP players win, Mainline PVE players win, Devs win, everyone happy.

The thing is that DE doesn't even have to hire a new team of people to fix the issues that Conclave has. Conclave's issues, while dramatically affecting the state of it, are very easy to fix. One would think that the severity of these issues would mean that they are complex, but they would be wrong. Hiring a new team would be extremely overkill for the situation. Having 1-2 work on a dedicated server system, spectator mode, and fleshing out the private lobbies? Absolutely.
 

 

On 2020-02-01 at 5:21 AM, VenomousValentine said:

Or perhaps better, would be to make a shop system like with vitus essence. A round gives a reasonable amount of currency given your performance, Not so much difference so if you do bad you don't feel like it wasn't worth it, but also enough of a difference that skill is rewarded. Maybe a difference of double the currency between the worst player in the match and the best.
Rewards I would suggest available from this shop being things like endo, credits, kuva, every resource, some cosmetics that are attainable elsewhere (such as syndicate syandanas) universal medallions for syndicates, Certain mods that can be obtained elsewhere, conclave exclusive mods that can only be obtained here, etc.
With this system, conclave would not need standing, let alone a daily standing limit. Make rewards minimal so PVE is still the best way to farm these resources unless you are exceptionally skilled, but not so minimal that you feel like you aren't getting your times worth.

I 100% agree with you. The current method of getting resources through PvP is clunky and random. I support the idea of using an "oro essence" currency to buy resources and blueprints from a shop. This would reward players much more than the way it rewards them for playing Conclave now. It would also increase player retention among players who might come to Warframe just for the Conclave.

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On 2020-02-11 at 10:58 PM, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

You come so close to the proper conclusion but you end up falling short. 
 

Conclave isn't a bad system. It has just been horribly mismanaged over the course of the last two years. When Conclave works, it stands up as one of the best arena shooters of all time. When it doesn't, you get something awful. Because of DE's mismanagement of the mode, the community has come to conflate the awful state the mode is in, with the quality of the mode itself.

There are also countless players in the community who jumped on the bandwagon of "PvP bad xd" without ever trying the mode to begin with. These players happen to be very vocal about their unfounded hatred of the mode, too.

Okay. I agree with this. I didn't like the PvE in this game at first, I still don't like it now either. I do it to unlock new weapons and stay up to date on the ever shifting PvP meta. I do the PvE to help my clan and even make some platinum if I am lucky. 
PvP in Warframe is criminally underrated and underrepresented given it's unique features and unmatched quality. If it just had some more polish and some more advertisement, Conclave would be huge.

Conclave isn't bad because Conclave is inherently bad. Conclave is bad because DE has let problems fester for the last two and a half years,

The thing is that DE doesn't even have to hire a new team of people to fix the issues that Conclave has. Conclave's issues, while dramatically affecting the state of it, are very easy to fix. One would think that the severity of these issues would mean that they are complex, but they would be wrong. Hiring a new team would be extremely overkill for the situation. Having 1-2 work on a dedicated server system, spectator mode, and fleshing out the private lobbies? Absolutely.
 

 

I 100% agree with you. The current method of getting resources through PvP is clunky and random. I support the idea of using an "oro essence" currency to buy resources and blueprints from a shop. This would reward players much more than the way it rewards them for playing Conclave now. It would also increase player retention among players who might come to Warframe just for the Conclave.

I really agree with your first point.

But I don't agree with your second point. See, if DE doesn't hire more people you'll get people reeing about pvp taking DEs precious time away from them. The truth is, conclave HAD 1 or 2 people working on it, and they got pulled away to work on other S#&$ because DE is understaffed.

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