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Either fix matchmaking to make the game playable on public, or stop punishing solo play.


Vinceant
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I could rant about the relic system being a pile of crap, and it is, but I think we can all agree that solo players get punished hard with this system. 1/4th the item rolls, way less traces, and fewer viable speedrun mission types.

With the Lich system now making it more and more required to use relics, you punish solo players for trying to play a largely solo experience. Liches were supposed to be our personal challenges, yet you have to either grind for literally months in hopes of getting the triple layered RNG to go in your favor at least 3 times, or you have to pug those missions. This is infuriatingly bad. I killed my first lich only last week, when I spawned him the day the patch hit, because I literally didn't get any mod drops for months; hell, I didn't even get a third mod of any type for 2 months so I couldn't even begin to decipher the sequence.

And now, there's a whole new expansion I just straight up can't even play. Thanks. Looks like it could be cool, I spent time and effort making a neato ship. Only to not be able to use it ever. I know you're coming out with the solo stuff soon, but you should've either had that ready to go at the get go, or made your awful matchmaking system work.

Why? Because matchmaking in this game has been broken for years, and DE has done nothing to improve it. I had better average matchmaking in the 90s, with games like Jedi Knight, on dial up freaking modems. Yet here I am with an i7, a 1080, and symmetrical gigabit fiber piped in my home office, which is literally smack dab in the middle of the US, and my average public game is so laggy it's completely unplayable.

And before you ask, no, it's not my setup. I work in IT, and while that doesn't make me impervious to mistakes, I'm pretty confident I can set up a network enough to play a simple online game. This has been a problem for years. 

And yes, I've turned the ping limit in the menu down. That option is broken and does nothing to limit the ping of hosts I connect to. I'm guessing it just pings a host before they are in a mission, thus not under a load, yet when homeslice from Siberia with his core2duo era machine has someone do something crazy like load in another room with enemies in it, then the whole experience tanks. People should be required to pass a basic benchmark before being allowed to host.

I would pay real money for an always/preferred host option. I shouldn't have to, but I really would. The only way I know of to force this to be the case is to invite someone else, so I guess I could make a second account just to tag along on missions as a zombie. That's a ludicrous workaround.

Bottom line is you shouldn't punish solo play with the relic system, that's BS... but at the very least fix your netcode, matchmaking, or whatever is wrong so it's at least playable on public.

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Playing solo is supposed to be harder, it's a co-op game after all. It's not punishing solo players per se. I would love to see normal spawns in endless missions when playing alone but that's about it. As a mostly solo player myself I don't have any other complaints.

22 minutes ago, Vinceant said:

hell, I didn't even get a third mod of any type for 2 months so I couldn't even begin to decipher the sequence.

Good thing they are tradeable and pretty cheap too, there's always a workaround.

 

23 minutes ago, Vinceant said:

And now, there's a whole new expansion I just straight up can't even play.

I can, again solo, and many others do. What's gating you exactly? Your inability to manage the mission by yourself?

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Just now, Asphyxxia said:

Playing solo is supposed to be harder, it's a co-op game after all. It's not punishing solo players per se. I would love to see normal spawns in endless missions when playing alone but that's about it. As a mostly solo player myself I don't have any other complaints.

Good thing they are tradeable and pretty cheap too, there's always a workaround.

 

I can, again solo, and many others do. What's gating you exactly? Your inability to manage the mission by yourself?

"spend money" is not a good design solution. There's time gating, then there's ripping people off. And what am I supposed to do, go buy an entire set?

With the default ship and equipment, you can't solo the first mission in Empyrean. Hell, doing it with two people isn't easily done. Sure, with better S#&$ you probably could, but starting out? Nope.

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1 minute ago, taiiat said:

you say it's not you, but if every Multiplayer Mission is unplayable as you say - while this is not the case for the majority of other Players - these two things are diametrically opposed to one another.

People have been telling DE to fix their netcode and matchmaking since release. This isn't just me, it's not even remotely close to being just me.

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Just now, Vinceant said:

"spend money" is not a good design solution.

Imagine if earning plat via trading was a thing... Oh wait, it is! And 15 plat for a requiem mod can't be hard to earn.

 

4 minutes ago, Vinceant said:

With the default ship and equipment, you can't solo the first mission in Empyrean. Hell, doing it with two people isn't easily done.

I assure you it's very much possible even without any intrinsics, base guns and even without base avionics.

 

4 minutes ago, Vinceant said:

This isn't just me, it's not even remotely close to being just me

It's not just you that's for sure, but not majority of players either. Have you checked in with support to find potential issues? I have a potato PC, and ok-ish connectivity and can host okay, with spikes or freezes for clients sometimes when in Railjack, Plains or Vallis. Then again I rarely get any complaints when I do host in public, far from perfect but playable.

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32 minutes ago, Vinceant said:

Why? Because matchmaking in this game has been broken for years, and DE has done nothing to improve it. I had better average matchmaking in the 90s, with games like Jedi Knight, on dial up freaking modems. Yet here I am with an i7, a 1080, and symmetrical gigabit fiber piped in my home office, which is literally smack dab in the middle of the US, and my average public game is so laggy it's completely unplayable.

Just checking, but are you sure you are also playing on the right region setting in the options menu? I think it's set to Europe by deffault.

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So you crying here like little baby about not being able to solo RJ which is literally focused on teamplay. And YES you can solo RJ without issue as long as you have decent AW/AW weapon, you dont even need to use/fly railjack you know. Same for eidolons btw.

And ofc solo fissures is "bad" cause you missing on other ppl drop table. You must be new to warframe bruh.

A third-person, co-op focused action game at its core.

Literally first sentence on warframe main website.  👍

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I think what OP is complaining is dealing with host using potato hardware.
 
An opt in and out of hosting would reduce the number of bad hosts substiantialy. I am in the same boat as the op here, even at 100ms ping I frequently connected to host with good internet connection, but very weak hardware (something like Old or low end laptops and PC) thus makes the game very laggy and delayed actions. I would gladly host with my beefy PC to make other squaddies have good playing experience with very little lag (assuming they are in reasonable range of course).

Railjack missions already have this, please make it global DE.

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1 hour ago, Asphyxxia said:

Imagine if earning plat via trading was a thing... Oh wait, it is! And 15 plat for a requiem mod can't be hard to earn.

Except that doesn't address the OP's concerns. His issue is running Relic missions solo, and your solution is to trade items for Plat... Which means running Relic missions for Primed parts. Granted, that's not the only thing available to sell, but it's the most readily-available.

 

1 hour ago, Asphyxxia said:

I assure you it's very much possible even without any intrinsics, base guns and even without base avionics.

Trying to argue that Empyrean is "soloable" is honestly disingenuous. While, yes, some have found ways to solo it, DE themselves have stated in no uncertain terms that they didn't intend for us to solo it. Not yet, anyway. Watch the Empyrean devstream (the one where they complain a lot about people criticising them) and you'll note this said repeatedly. They acknowledged that it MIGHT be possible to solo some of the harder missions, but they also admitted it's going to be a miserable time. More than that, we've been promised AI crews specifically to address the soloability of the entire system, so this argument holds no water as far as I'm concerned.

 

It doesn't help that Warframe's matchmaker is absolute ass, either. I've begrudgingly accepted that I'll sometimes have to put up with random pubbies, but it would help if the game would consistently actually match me with any. Railjack is a wasteland outside of Veil Proxima, and even there you can't find missions reliably unless you're doing the Anomaly. It's worse if you want to use your own ship. People can only queue for one node at a time even though most of them are interchangeable. You can't wait in the queue as a crew unless a captain with his ship is already playing whom you can join, but you also can't wait in the queue as a captain with your ship until a crew joins you. So if you want to use your own ship - which I do - your only option is to jump into a mission alone and then sit on your hands for 10 minutes while you wait for people to join. If you're in Saturn Proxima because, say, you haven't had the chance to upgrade to MK2 weapons, then you'll be waiting for a while with the amount of players that area gets.

Yeah, I could always spend time spamming Recruit Chat. I could also spend time hammering nails into my kneecaps. I'd rather not, if that's OK with you. If Warframe had a matchmaking system worth a crap this wouldn't be an issue but that's a bit like asking for a sensible trading system - no, and stop asking.

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4 hours ago, Vinceant said:

With the default ship and equipment, you can't solo the first mission in Empyrean.

Uhhhmmm, I did.  I solo'd the hell out of it, and did it with Itzal as my AW.  

2 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

It doesn't help that Warframe's matchmaker is absolute ass

This I can agree with.  It's just one of the many reasons I play solo.  

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I know it's region sensitive. My brother plays from CA and he has much better luck than I do with public matchmaking... but for whatever reason being smack dab in the middle of the US has me in a pool with really terrible hosts, despite the fact that I could easily be the best host for most people in the country, east or west coast alike.

It's fine if they want to encourage group play, that's understandable... but fix the matchmaking if you want me to do that, so I can actually DO the group play stuff. I shouldn't have to organize a party just to do a random mission that takes 5 minutes or less.

9 hours ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

Just checking, but are you sure you are also playing on the right region setting in the options menu? I think it's set to Europe by deffault.

It's set to North America, but this is always a good suggestion to check.

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5 hours ago, SolidSnake8774 said:

You're upset that you arent as rewarded playing solo as you are playing co-op in a co-op/multiplayer based game?

Funny that the only truly co-op designed part of the game (railjack) actually forces you to solo in order to build it.  😛 

Which just further proves my long standing point that Warframe is really a single player experience with Co-op elements.  I say this because there is almost nothing in the game that requires you to play in a group.  That even includes Railjack.  

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20 hours ago, Vinceant said:

I literally didn't get any mod drops for months

I do not believe you.
 

20 hours ago, Vinceant said:

And now, there's a whole new expansion I just straight up can't even play. Thanks. Looks like it could be cool, I spent time and effort making a neato ship. Only to not be able to use it ever. I know you're coming out with the solo stuff soon

What do you mean by this? Railjack is difficult solo, but perfectly doable. 

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I know this is a difficult concept to grasp but... Have you tried socializing and trying to find a group of people to play with? I'm not sure but I'd swear in warframe there's some kind of option to create a group of people more or less permanent to play with them. I think they call it clan?

How dare they! Adding missions that are meant to be played with a group of people in a multiplayer co-op game! Preposterous!!!

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I play solo and I don't feel punished.

 

For a game that many claim is co-op at its core all the content except for conclave can be soloed.

In fact other than conclave there are more things that can't be co-oped than there are things that can't be soloed. (Single player only quests anyone?)

 

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You're intentionally gimping yourself by soloing relics. The relic system is meant to be shared. Literally the entire point of it is to group up and share the wealth.

The requiem missions are so mindless, you can semi afk them. So having other people just speeds it up.

I havnt done requiems since old blood came out. I got more than enough of each type to last me a few months in a single sitting. 

Im predominantly a solo player too but my god....

Hate to break it to you, but it IS YOUR SETUP. Something in your setup or your isp is causing issues that millions of other players simply aren't experiencing. I have a garbage connection and I can instantly connect to squads.

Everyone's a bloody IT expert on the internet apparently. Lol

 

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I gotta say all these "I solo'd the first mission with the starter Railjack" posts are always funny when they turn around and mention that they primarily used ARCHWING to do so.

Dances around the issue of the starter Railjack being made of flypaper quite nicely, rather than questioning why comparatively the starter Railjack is less durable against level 1 Railjack enemies than a modless Mag against level 10 ground enemies.

Not to mention that you need about 4 or so intrinsics just to be able to make the Railjack not a slow moving sitting duck due to basic functions like Boost and Dash being locked behind them. Oh and the fact that to build even basic MK1 weapons you need to actually complete and clear Railjack missions for the resources to do so so saying "get better weapons" doesn't solve anything either.

This is coming from a person who has a solid Railjack themselves by the way, I actually can solo several of the early missions with no issue, especially now that I have a Seeker Volley Avionic, which took me hours of gameplay on other player's Railjacks.

Railjack's "difficulty" isn't properly matched up at low levels to the starter equipment, it would be like level 1 Earth enemies killing a newbie Mag in 2-3 bullets, it makes sense for that to happen when the enemy ships start hitting 20+, but level freaking 1-3?

As for the matchmaking thing, I can't help ya there.

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1 hour ago, Aldain said:

I gotta say all these "I solo'd the first mission with the starter Railjack" posts are always funny when they turn around and mention that they primarily used ARCHWING to do so.

Dances around the issue of the starter Railjack being made of flypaper quite nicely, rather than questioning why comparatively the starter Railjack is less durable against level 1 Railjack enemies than a modless Mag against level 10 ground enemies.

Not to mention that you need about 4 or so intrinsics just to be able to make the Railjack not a slow moving sitting duck due to basic functions like Boost and Dash being locked behind them. Oh and the fact that to build even basic MK1 weapons you need to actually complete and clear Railjack missions for the resources to do so so saying "get better weapons" doesn't solve anything either.

This is coming from a person who has a solid Railjack themselves by the way, I actually can solo several of the early missions with no issue, especially now that I have a Seeker Volley Avionic, which took me hours of gameplay on other player's Railjacks.

Railjack's "difficulty" isn't properly matched up at low levels to the starter equipment, it would be like level 1 Earth enemies killing a newbie Mag in 2-3 bullets, it makes sense for that to happen when the enemy ships start hitting 20+, but level freaking 1-3?

As for the matchmaking thing, I can't help ya there.

Frankly, that's just plain not true.  A fresh Railjack can solo the first mission easily.  There's a huge window of invulnerability when health is depleted.  I did it just now, or as close as I can.  Equipped all the base parts, removed all Avionics, didn't boost, teleport, craft, or take any advantage of Intrinsics, including ignoring the lead indicator and only shooting directly at enemies.  And it was easy.  Two critical breaches, both while out blowing up Crewships because I was careless, neither actually threatening.  This demonstrates that the first mission is not at all difficult with a base Railjack, and instead that it's a result of the pilot's skill.  While a player new to Railjack won't have that skill, neither did I when I did it the first time around.

And Posit Cluster is all that's needed to be done with base gear, considering Sigma gear is cheap and plenty good enough.

I did the whole "just use Archwing" thing for all of three missions partway through Earth Proxima because I had heard about how much more effective it was, except at that point my Railjack was enough to handle everything there I guess because I was actually upgrading Avionics and Avionic Slots, and swapping out for better Sigma gear as it finished researching.  Heck, it's easier now than then because of the multiple resource drop changes since release.

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On 2020-02-03 at 10:46 AM, Benour said:

Ninjas Play Free. A third-person, co-op focused action game at its core.

except these days most players spend more time doing stuff like mining, fishing and in railjacks case spending 30mins slowly picking up resources, not seeing much action these days and again in railjacks case not much co-op either.

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If you game is going to be multiplayer/co-op then you need a robust and reliably networking solution. This seems to be eluding DE currently and has been for many years.

Basically they have avoided the costs associated with running an MMO but given their customers a sub par experience on the networking side. Since this is a architectural issue I don't hold out any hopes for it being resolved.

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