Alias System Rework?

[Sweeney]

I want to be able to name myself whatever I want.

There's a bunch of MMOs and websites and such that have found a way to make that happen by now.
I think Warframe should too.

Just give each account a "code" that identifies them. A friend code, like on the Switch or something. Or a 4 digit code after their chosen name, like on Discord.

Or barring that, figure something else out.

Let the name they're known by be something they can choose, like an accessory or a color. Like how we can name our weapons and pets.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Sweeney
spacing, added gif

[taiiat]

but how do you monetize that.

[AegisSiege]

8 minutes ago, taiiat said:

but how do you monetize that.

Charge 10 plat every time you change your name.

[taiiat]

oh i forgot the most important bullet point, that character+code based naming systems just makes it easier for people to impersonate each other. and if not the name but some generated code is what uniquely identifies Accounts, does that mean that we'll replace names with some hashes to identify Players in the game? because if not then it just makes impersonating other people really easy.

46 minutes ago, AegisSiege said:

Charge 10 plat every time you change your name.

that's a lot less than the cost is currently.

[Sweeney]

On 2020-02-03 at 9:04 PM, taiiat said:

oh i forgot the most important bullet point, that character+code based naming systems just makes it easier for people to impersonate each other. and if not the name but some generated code is what uniquely identifies Accounts, does that mean that we'll replace names with some hashes to identify Players in the game? because if not then it just makes impersonating other people really easy.

that's a lot less than the cost is currently.

Actually, the code makes it impossible?
Because only one person has it?

Let's say I could name my character whatever I want- in my case, I'd use my actual name.
Always my first choice. Gregory.

Then let's say my code was #1132
Only one Gregory #1132 could exist.

Others could change their name to Gregory, but they'd have a different code.
Maybe letters too. Maybe longer codes.

Gregory #B146 and Gregory #A13567 etc.
But if it's not Gregory #1132 it's obviously not me.

And of course, in game, only Gregory would show. Until you hovered over my name in chat, or viewed my profile or something.
Maybe in chat it would be visible but more...opaque?

And yeah, it's 200 Platinum to change your Alias right now.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Sweeney
addendum, added gif

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, Oakleigh said:

Actually, the code makes it impossible?
Because only one person has it?

And of course, in game, only Gregory would show. Until you hovered over my name in chat, or viewed my profile or something.

you just explained away your own defense.

 

 

it's impossible to impersonate someone now, since every name is unique and you can't just use Unicode or alternative Fonts in your Username - so if you read a name currently you know who it is with confidence. you don't have to dig through menus or do anything extra besides read.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

11 minutes ago, taiiat said:

you don't have to dig through menus or do anything extra besides read.

oh no you have to hover over their username or click their profile

Impersonation isn't an issue at all in any of the many things which have this system, like Steam.

[taiiat]

29 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

oh no you have to hover over their username or click their profile

Impersonation isn't an issue at all in any of the many things which have this system, like Steam.

i don't know if you're just asking for it but yeah i guess you'd be used to having to open extra menus anytime you want to do anything, when on another Platform. that would be the status quo for important information on as many menus as possible to be on "more" or "+" buttons so that every menu holds as little relevant information as possible.

 

impersonation (attempts, whether the recipient is able to be tricked or not varies) has been an issue on Steam and other systems that let anyone have any name for literally forever. what are you talking about.
that's literally what Verified checkmarks on all sorts of services exist (and were invented) for. as a laborious bandaid to a problem caused in part by being able to display yourself as anything you want.

Edited February 4, 2020 by taiiat

[Aesthier]

No thanks. I like my name without the code. Its the one I picked on purpose.

 

Don't like having to choose names you don't like? Then join your next game earlier.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Aesthier

[Sweeney]

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

you just explained away your own defense.

it's impossible to impersonate someone now, since every name is unique and you can't just use Unicode or alternative Fonts in your Username - so if you read a name currently you know who it is with confidence. you don't have to dig through menus or do anything extra besides read.

Like I said, it could be visible (but opaque and mostly unnoticeable) in chat, and hovering over someone's name could show it more clearly.

And visiting someone's profile takes what, two clicks most? Come on.

Other games I've played have done it. It really isn't as big of an issue as you make it out to be.

5 hours ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

oh no you have to hover over their username or click their profile

Impersonation isn't an issue at all in any of the many things which have this system, like Steam.

Personally I've only had that issue on 4Chan. I'm not a 4Chan user, blek, but one time years ago I had a thread made about me and several people impersonated me in it- and even they had a system of identifying people and rooting out impostors with certainty.

And yeah. It involved a code. A tripcode, to be precise.
Where there's a will, there's a way.

It doesn't even have to be the way I suggested.

4 hours ago, taiiat said:

i don't know if you're just asking for it but yeah i guess you'd be used to having to open extra menus anytime you want to do anything, when on another Platform. that would be the status quo for important information on as many menus as possible to be on "more" or "+" buttons so that every menu holds as little relevant information as possible.

 

impersonation (attempts, whether the recipient is able to be tricked or not varies) has been an issue on Steam and other systems that let anyone have any name for literally forever. what are you talking about.
that's literally what Verified checkmarks on all sorts of services exist (and were invented) for. as a laborious bandaid to a problem caused in part by being able to display yourself as anything you want.

If you ask me, those blue checks are just a clout thing now.

3 hours ago, Aesthier said:

No thanks. I like my name without the code. Its the one I picked on purpose.

 

Don't like having to choose names you don't like? Then join your next game earlier.

The jist of your post was, "not my problem, get bent"
That's not really feedback.
At least the other person had genuine security concerns.

Anyway, your name would be the same as it is now. But if you wanted to add someone as a friend, you'd enter their code.

It's like...a state ID and SSN? If you look at your drivers or state licence, your name is still the same. But when someone needs to tell you apart or look you up- your unique identification comes into play. Except in this case, the code only applies to Warframe and not every other aspect of your life.

[Steel_Rook]

9 hours ago, taiiat said:

oh i forgot the most important bullet point, that character+code based naming systems just makes it easier for people to impersonate each other. and if not the name but some generated code is what uniquely identifies Accounts, does that mean that we'll replace names with some hashes to identify Players in the game? because if not then it just makes impersonating other people really easy.

Yeah, I remember making that argument 15 years ago when unique account and character names were the only option anywhere. Since then, however, we've had plenty of services with non-unique naming implementations and this issue has failed to be prevalent to any significant degree. If I'm not mistaken, Steam offers non-unique naming now, along with costless infinite account renames. Battle.net has offered non-unique account names for as long as I've been using it, and all Battle.net games directly use your account name as an identifier - at least the ones I've played. I'm sure name-spoofing happens, but I can't see it happening to any significant degree enough to restrict name selection.

Me personally, I'd like a broader character set for names in Warframe. See that underscore in my name? That's not supposed to be there, but it exists because the game won't let me have spaces. My guess is it messes with some kind of Byzantine tokenisation system, since space is usually a separator. I mean, Unicode support would be nice, but I'll settle for just spaces.

[Tsukinoki]

8 hours ago, Oakleigh said:

And of course, in game, only Gregory would show. Until you hovered over my name in chat, or viewed my profile or something.
Maybe in chat it would be visible but more...opaque?

And I would rather not have this.

Say I see a Gregory in chat that's a complete #$&(%...I don't want to have to remember "Was i Gregory#1131?  Or Gregory#1113?  Or is it the Gregory that I happened to be matched with in this group?"
I'm wouldn't be entirely sure as I can't just memorize the full #....... code to know which one was the #$&(%.

And then you have chats propensity to be spammy and memey and you'll come across chats that are full of the same name over and over and over again that just gets needlessly confusing....and for no real benefit.

[Sweeney]

On 2020-02-04 at 6:36 AM, Tsukinoki said:

And I would rather not have this.

Say I see a Gregory in chat that's a complete #$&(%...I don't want to have to remember "Was i Gregory#1131?  Or Gregory#1113?  Or is it the Gregory that I happened to be matched with in this group?"
I'm wouldn't be entirely sure as I can't just memorize the full #....... code to know which one was the #$&(%.

And then you have chats propensity to be spammy and memey and you'll come across chats that are full of the same name over and over and over again that just gets needlessly confusing....and for no real benefit.

It's really simple.
When you're partied with the "Gregory" that's hard for you to tolerate, you use the block/ignore feature then and there.

Then you never have to worry about THAT Gregory again, and no memorization of codes is necessary in that situation.
It's literally the same as it is now.

Rick click, add. Right click, add.
Really the only time you'd need to worry about a players code/id is when you're trying to add them as a friend from Discord or something.

As for the chat spam/meme issue, those who violate the rules get reported/taken care of by a chat bot don't they?
That will also continue, surely.

S*it posters gonna s*it post regardless.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Sweeney
removed redundancies, added gif

[Sweeney]

21 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Yeah, I remember making that argument 15 years ago when unique account and character names were the only option anywhere. Since then, however, we've had plenty of services with non-unique naming implementations and this issue has failed to be prevalent to any significant degree. If I'm not mistaken, Steam offers non-unique naming now, along with costless infinite account renames. Battle.net has offered non-unique account names for as long as I've been using it, and all Battle.net games directly use your account name as an identifier - at least the ones I've played. I'm sure name-spoofing happens, but I can't see it happening to any significant degree enough to restrict name selection.

Me personally, I'd like a broader character set for names in Warframe. See that underscore in my name? That's not supposed to be there, but it exists because the game won't let me have spaces. My guess is it messes with some kind of Byzantine tokenisation system, since space is usually a separator. I mean, Unicode support would be nice, but I'll settle for just spaces.

The definite pros vastly outweigh any potential cons.
Names are as important to character customization as any armor set or color palette.

[Sweeney]

1 minute ago, slotschii said:

i realy dont know why ppl have such concerns about this...

People that would be "worth impersonating" are likely to be partners or founders anyway right? u literally just need to look at their profile and see that there's no acolyte to go along with the name, ergo not the real person. I also have this name because my default username was already taken so i had to come up with this S#&$e.

slotschii

That's the kind of name people have to settle with when almost every name on planet earth is already taken

slotschii

This is why we need a new naming system

slotschii


And exactly. The same reason only celebs or mildly noteworthy people get blue checkmarks.
Because your average joe doesn't usually need to worry about that.

[Sweeney]

Just now, slotschii said:

i love the poetic touch this post has...

 

1 minute ago, slotschii said:

and it was ment to be sleoh 😢

I'm sorry you couldn't get the name you wanted. It's a really sucky system that's just been normalized in MMOs for too long now.

[Ster]

5 hours ago, Aesthier said:

Don't like having to choose names you don't like? Then join your next game earlier.

lmao this is funny you know ?

So you are telling me that I should get on every game that is created like... ever just for a chance to ^{(maybe somewhere in the future)} play that game with the name I like and use in other games?

This is the part of the problem! There is a warframe account with name that I use in most games, and it's taken by mr 1 beta tester fella who played for 2 hours and never touched this game again.

I support the idea of the OP.

Warframe is not an indiee game anymore played by a thousand people, there are milions of registered loosers that would benefit from this.

[CxLL]

Have you never had more than one person with the same name in your phonebook?
Then needing to check which number fits which name?
Then being forced to memorize multiple digits for each name?
That's where you start editing the names. To be able to see who calls you by looking not by checking and comparing numbers.
It's a problem. A problem that doesn't need to be created where it doesn't exist.
 

[Tsukinoki]

3 hours ago, Oakleigh said:

It's really simple.
When you're partied with the "Gregory" that's hard for you to tolerate, you use the block/ignore feature then and there.

Then you never have to worry about THAT Gregory again, and no memorization of codes is necessary in that situation.
It's literally the same as it is now.

Rick click, add. Right click, add.
Really the only time you'd need to worry about a players code/id is when you're trying to add them as a friend from Discord or something.

As for the chat spam/meme issue, those who violate the rules get reported/taken care of by a chat bot don't they?
That will also continue, surely.

Except one problem:
The block/ignore does not stop you from being rematched with a player.
And if that player is a troll (Hides the MDef datamass, leeches, does any number of other trolling behaviors such as STing people out of bounds or similar) then yes, I do need to worry about "that" gregory...but good luck figuring out "Is the Gregory in the squad the one that will troll me?  Or is it a good one..." because in one case I will leave the mission to avoid a known troll/leecher/griefer.

[FoxyKabam]

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

Except one problem:
The block/ignore does not stop you from being rematched with a player.
And if that player is a troll (Hides the MDef datamass, leeches, does any number of other trolling behaviors such as STing people out of bounds or similar) then yes, I do need to worry about "that" gregory...but good luck figuring out "Is the Gregory in the squad the one that will troll me?  Or is it a good one..." because in one case I will leave the mission to avoid a known troll/leecher/griefer.

that sounds like we have a problem with the block/ignore rather than a problem with non-unique naming.

[taiiat]

8 hours ago, Oakleigh said:

And visiting someone's profile takes what, two clicks most? Come on.

If you ask me, those blue checks are just a clout thing now.

that's two clicks and a full screen overlay that you shouldn't have to use on every single person you're trying to communicate with to ensure that they are the person you're looking for.

those checkmarks definitely aren't just clout, they're literally the only way to be sure that you're talking to who you think you're talking to. otherwise it could not be, there's no way to know for sure, you can only guess based on snooping peoples' Accounts on services to see if their Profile seems to share enough similarities with what you expect. but ofcourse that isn't something you can fully trust.

8 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Since then, however, we've had plenty of services with non-unique naming implementations and this issue has failed to be prevalent to any significant degree. 

Me personally, I'd like a broader character set for names in Warframe. See that underscore in my name? That's not supposed to be there, but it exists because the game won't let me have spaces. My guess is it messes with some kind of Byzantine tokenisation system, since space is usually a separator. I mean, Unicode support would be nice, but I'll settle for just spaces.

it's not a rampant problem but it wasn't a problem at all previously, and now it's a problem that exists.
voluntarily causing our own problems, and all.

i wouldn't mind spaces too much but hellllllll no, Unicode was a friggin' mistake and Usernames should never be allowed to use such nonsensical crap. because you've just said that you want people to be completely immune to anything because you literally can't type their name in because they have whatever stupid crap in their name that is not typable.
other Services already allow this, having no restrictions on what Encoding sets you can use in your Display name and.... malicious people can have their name be untypable, make their name completely invisible, or... even worse things.
Unicode even lets you put freaking pictures into your Display name. how is someone supposed to spell your name then, if there's literally a picture in it.

 

2 hours ago, FoxyKabam said:

that sounds like we have a problem with the block/ignore rather than a problem with non-unique naming.

slow down there, and think before you act.
Blocking people in a Video Game changing how Players match together can and has been used in the past for internet terrorism. that's why games don't do it, because it allows malicious people to break the functionality of a game to people that they decide they don't like.
it's a 'feature' that strictly just causes unprecedented levels of toxicity in a Video Game. and thankfully almost no Video Games allow said 'feature' because of it. definitely in part due to the political mess they'd get into if it was found out about because it being used maliciously can be constituted as unequal treatment for any of the -ism reasons.

Edited February 4, 2020 by taiiat

[Sweeney]

On 2020-02-04 at 11:54 AM, FoxyKabam said:

that sounds like we have a problem with the block/ignore rather than a problem with non-unique naming.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

On 2020-02-04 at 2:45 PM, taiiat said:

that's two clicks and a full screen overlay that you shouldn't have to use on every single person you're trying to communicate with to ensure that they are the person you're looking for.

those checkmarks definitely aren't just clout, they're literally the only way to be sure that you're talking to who you think you're talking to. otherwise it could not be, there's no way to know for sure, you can only guess based on snooping peoples' Accounts on services to see if their Profile seems to share enough similarities with what you expect. but ofcourse that isn't something you can fully trust.

it's not a rampant problem but it wasn't a problem at all previously, and now it's a problem that exists.
voluntarily causing our own problems, and all.

i wouldn't mind spaces too much but hellllllll no, Unicode was a friggin' mistake and Usernames should never be allowed to use such nonsensical crap. because you've just said that you want people to be completely immune to anything because you literally can't type their name in because they have whatever stupid crap in their name that is not typable.
other Services already allow this, having no restrictions on what Encoding sets you can use in your Display name and.... malicious people can have their name be untypable, make their name completely invisible, or... even worse things.
Unicode even lets you put freaking pictures into your Display name. how is someone supposed to spell your name then, if there's literally a picture in it.

 

slow down there, and think before you act.
Blocking people in a Video Game changing how Players match together can and has been used in the past for internet terrorism. that's why games don't do it, because it allows malicious people to break the functionality of a game to people that they decide they don't like.
it's a 'feature' that strictly just causes unprecedented levels of toxicity in a Video Game. and thankfully almost no Video Games allow said 'feature' because of it. definitely in part due to the political mess they'd get into if it was found out about because it being used maliciously can be constituted as unequal treatment for any of the -ism reasons.

By that logic, I could be an impersonator because I don't have a blue checkmark. But I'm not. I'm me. And I couldn't get a checkmark if I wanted to, since again, only public figures can use them. It's a useless feature for MOST of the population.

And again, the code could be visible in the chat bar too, and by mousing over a player's name.
No overlay windows necessary. This is just me brainstorming ideas based on how I've seen the system implemented before. I don't design UI, but I've seen it done and it's been done well and in such a way that's it not a problem.

Some way or another, aliases gotta be changed so they don't have to be unique. It's been done. It can be done. It should be done. Because it'd be an improvement.

And because eventually we gonna run out of unique names otherwise.

As for your whole bit about blocking being terrorism, that's just absolutely wildly insane. Blocking is a necessary feature. A person shouldn't be forced to interact with people they don't want to interact with. Not in person, not online, not anywhere.

If you're being harassed or abused or trolled by someone, you should have the option to cut them off entirely.

Is there potential for misuse? Sure. Someone might go around saying "Hey, block this person." and a few people might go ahead and do it. I've seen it happen. But you risk far more by not having that option.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Sweeney
spacing, moved gif

[Sweeney]

9 hours ago, CxLL said:

Have you never had more than one person with the same name in your phonebook?
Then needing to check which number fits which name?
Then being forced to memorize multiple digits for each name?
That's where you start editing the names. To be able to see who calls you by looking not by checking and comparing numbers.
It's a problem. A problem that doesn't need to be created where it doesn't exist.
 

Oof, I usually add a person's first and last name.

And the odds of me meeting someone with the same first and last name are slim to none.

But yeah, I suppose they could introduce a "nickname" system too- so if you have two friends with the same name,
you could nickname each one.

It's a possible minor inconvenience that can be easily solved,
in exchange for a huge improvement that will definitely benefit everyone, both now and in the future.
 

[taiiat]

4 hours ago, Oakleigh said:

By that logic, I could be an impersonator because I don't have a blue checkmark.
But I'm not. I'm me. And I couldn't get a checkmark if I wanted to, since again,
only public figures can use them. It's a useless feature for MOST of the population.

And again, the code could be visible in the chat bar too, and by mousing over a player's name.

As for your whole bit about blocking being terrorism, that's just absolutely wildly insane.
Blocking is a necessary feature. A person shouldn't be forced to interact with people they don't want to interact with.
Not in person, not online, not anywhere.

If you're being harassed or abused or trolled by someone, you should have the option to cut them off entirely.
But you risk far more by not having that option.

 

actually no, that's hot how the Verified checkmarks work on non monetary Platforms. if you want to be Verified you can be, the process depending on Platform is either just sending considerable personal information to the Company that owns such a Platform and then you'll get it, or owning a Trademark to something and claiming that name based on having that Trademark.
both of these paths are something that an individual can do, and indivuduals have done in the past.

presumably yes, but this Thread has been almost entirely saying that the only identifying information (this code) would not be displayed publicly, which is so asinine.

that's not insane, that's a problem that is adopted by it. if people already can't communicate with you then being in the same Zipcode as them means very little.

what about being should have the option to not receive the opposite in an equally malicious manner? you're not going to trick me with screaming social equality, because this isn't equality, it's just what you want and not caring about equality problems that can happen for other people. equality is about treating everyone fairly&equally, not just who you care about while ignoring who doesn't fit into that form.
i dislike that sometimes people screaming social equality has become the new age form of Racism.

 

tl;dr should things be equal? yes, but that means actually equal and changing things that solves A but not B or creates B, isn't getting anywhere.

Edited February 5, 2020 by taiiat

[Aesthier]

18 hours ago, Oakleigh said:

22 hours ago, Aesthier said:

No thanks. I like my name without the code. Its the one I picked on purpose.

 

Don't like having to choose names you don't like? Then join your next game earlier.

The jist of your post was, "not my problem, get bent"
That's not really feedback.
At least the other person had genuine security concerns.

Anyway, your name would be the same as it is now. But if you wanted to add someone as a friend, you'd enter their code.

That was not the jist of my post but thanks for trying to dismiss it as such by making exact same claim (you don't agree with my suggestion so therefore your feedback isn't really feedback get bent) in your reply.

My disagreement with your suggestion is feedback regardless if you like it or not. It shows that not everyone is in agreement with your suggestion.

The jist of my post was that I prefer it the way it is and that I do not agree with changing up the way Identities are currently processed for everyone just because you came to the game to late to get the name you really wanted.

Because getting the name you want is what is at the core of your argument not security.

 

So you make a post saying you want something implemented as a form of feedback for game improvement.

I make a post as feedback stating I prefer things the way they are in reply to that suggestion.

 

^ That is feedback.