Alias System Rework?

[Sweeney]

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

presumably yes, but this Thread has been almost entirely saying that the only identifying information (this code) would not be displayed publicly, which is so asinine.

I actually stated repeatedly that the code would be public and never even insinuated otherwise...

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

you're not going to trick me with screaming social equality, because this isn't equality, it's just what you want and not caring about equality problems that can happen for other people. equality is about treating everyone fairly&equally, not just who you care about while ignoring who doesn't fit into that form.
i dislike that sometimes people screaming social equality has become the new age form of Racism.

 

tl;dr should things be equal? yes, but that means actually equal and changing things that solves A but not B or creates B, isn't getting anywhere.

Are you...are you okay?

What are you even talking about?
Are we even having the same conversation at this point?

You're scaring me a little.

[Sweeney]

On 2020-02-05 at 8:03 AM, Aesthier said:

That was not the jist of my post but thanks for trying to dismiss it as such by making exact same claim (you don't agree with my suggestion so therefore your feedback isn't really feedback get bent) in your reply.

My disagreement with your suggestion is feedback regardless if you like it or not. It shows that not everyone is in agreement with your suggestion.

The jist of my post was that I prefer it the way it is and that I do not agree with changing up the way Identities are currently processed for everyone just because you came to the game to late to get the name you really wanted.

Because getting the name you want is what is at the core of your argument not security.

 

So you make a post saying you want something implemented as a form of feedback for game improvement.

I make a post as feedback stating I prefer things the way they are in reply to that suggestion.

 

^ That is feedback.

Thank you for elaborating further on what you were trying to say.

However, saying "I like things the way they are now (because I'm not personally affected by it) and if you or any other players who joined the game later have a problem with it, tough, go play another game that's still in closed beta" is still ultimately boiled down to: "Not my problem, get bent"

You can rephrase it however you like, but that's still what you effectively communicated, both then and now.

And yes- I, and many others, would love to have more freedom when it comes to aliases. Asking for things you want (or communicating what you don't want, in your case) is the whole point of a feedback thread.

Security was never an issue, nor was ease of use. These are imagined potential issues, and the person who expressed them didn't even read anything that was said before responding, as evidenced by his or her(their?) most recent post in which they actually seem alarmingly disconnected from reality altogether. (Maybe they need a nap...)

Your opposition to change of any kind is noted, and now that you've provided that little nugget of "feedback" you can leave as you've already said what you wanted to say.

Take care!

[Aesthier]

On 2020-02-05 at 9:39 AM, Oakleigh said:

Thank you for elaborating further on what you were trying to say.

However, saying "I like things the way they are now (because I'm not personally affected by it) and if you or any other players who joined the game later have a problem with it, tough, go play another game that's still in closed beta" is still ultimately boiled down to: "Not my problem, get bent"

You can rephrase it however you like, but that's still what you effectively communicated, both then and now.

You can call it whatever you like to make yourself feel better in the attempts to dismiss my perspective but I am providing the feedback that I do not want or desire a "code" system rework in the manner you have suggested because I am directly affected if such a rework were to take place.

On 2020-02-05 at 9:39 AM, Oakleigh said:

And yes- I, and many others, would love to have more freedom when it comes to aliases. Asking for things you want (or communicating what you don't want, in your case) is the whole point of a feedback thread.

I would love for you to have more freedom to in creating your aliases but not at the cost of adding a hidden code to my own.

Make it an opt in system and I will upvote it. Till then I am just providing my perspective just like you.

 

On 2020-02-05 at 9:39 AM, Oakleigh said:

Security was never an issue, nor was ease of use. These are imagined potential issues, and the person who expressed them didn't even read anything that was said before responding, as evidenced by his or her(their?) most recent post in which they actually seem alarming disconnected from reality altogether. (Maybe they need a nap...)

I might agree with you on the security standpoint but as to the ease of use I definitely disagree.

 

On 2020-02-05 at 9:39 AM, Oakleigh said:

Your opposition to change of any kind is noted, and now that you've provided that little nugget of "feedback"
you can leave as you've already said what you wanted to say.

Take care!

LOL what makes you think I am going anywhere.

 

[Sweeney]

4 minutes ago, Aesthier said:

You can call it whatever you like to make yourself feel better

I feel fine, and I call a spade a spade.

You said what you said, and it meant what it meant.

14 minutes ago, Aesthier said:

the attempts to dismiss my perspective but I am providing the feedback that I do not want or desire a "code" system rework in the manner you have suggested because I am directly affected if such a rework were to take place.

I am sorry you feel your perspective is being dismissed. It's not. I acknowledge your perspective.

I understand what you are communicating and your feedback is received.

I also understand that you seem to be misunderstanding how this would affect you, if at all, perhaps due to not being familiar with other games that use this system. Your name will still be the same. It won't have anything added to it. The code would be something only seen when needed, either by you or the people who interact with you.
 

19 minutes ago, Aesthier said:

LOL what makes you think I am going anywhere.

By all means stay, if you have more feedback to contribute.

But if all you're going to do is say "No, I don't want this." every other post, you're not really contributing anything new are you? We heard and understood. You don't want it. Everybody knows.

Obnoxiously repeating the same thing over and over is neither helpful nor endearing.

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Oakleigh said:

I actually stated repeatedly that the code would be public and never even insinuated otherwise...

if you're going to just lie to my face then there's no discussion to be had here. i guess we're done.

[FoxyKabam]

15 hours ago, taiiat said:

slow down there, and think before you act.

why, what was I going to do?

15 hours ago, taiiat said:

-snip-

Spoiler

Blocking people in a Video Game changing how Players match together can and has been used in the past for internet terrorism. that's why games don't do it, because it allows malicious people to break the functionality of a game to people that they decide they don't like.
it's a 'feature' that strictly just causes unprecedented levels of toxicity in a Video Game. and thankfully almost no Video Games allow said 'feature' because of it. definitely in part due to the political mess they'd get into if it was found out about because it being used maliciously can be constituted as unequal treatment for any of the -ism reasons.

 

nowhere in my post am I able to find where I was suggesting any of that. Just pointing out Tsukinoki's example highlighted a separate issue rather than an argument against non-unique naming.

Going back to the same Gregory example:

Spoiler

if that player is a troll (Hides the MDef datamass, leeches, does any number of other trolling behaviors such as STing people out of bounds or similar) then yes, I do need to worry about "that" gregory...but good luck figuring out "Is the Gregory in the squad the one that will troll me?  Or is it a good one..." because in one case I will leave the mission to avoid a known troll/leecher/griefer

If I had to suggest any change towards our current block/ignore, I'd make it more obvious a player is on your list to save yourself some time leaving or give you an opportunity to see if greg stopped being a troll so you can take him off your list.

regardless in any situation like this you'd want screen shots and video of the Gregory trolling and being abusive, submit them all to support and move on with your life. current naming or non-unique naming wouldn't change that.

 

reading through the rest of the thread I'm not seeing any good reasons not to implement non-unique naming, so I'll try.

I don't see it happening anytime time soon if at all because its more work to fix an issue that currently isn't really an issue.

that all said, I wouldn't be opposed to DE implementing non-unique naming, it would fix that frustration some run into when their chosen name is taken, I just don't believe its worth the effort at this point. If the name you want is old and on an inactive account you can ask support for it, I read they'll give it to you sometimes.

[Steel_Rook]

16 hours ago, taiiat said:

it's not a rampant problem but it wasn't a problem at all previously, and now it's a problem that exists.
voluntarily causing our own problems, and all.

Is it a problem, though? It could potentially be one in theory, this is true. Like I said - I used to argue the same point over a decade ago when Champions Online launched with non-unique naming while City of Heroes had unique names only. Logically, it seemed like that would be bad news. The last decade of services with non-unique names, however, have failed to demonstrate sufficient representation of this problem. For whatever reason, people just don't do that. And when people do do that, they're still capable of being tracked because account identifiers are still unique. What's non-unique is their on-screen visualisation. I apologise for he terse language, but unless you can demonstrate an actual, practical issue which happens in analogous circumstances - one which can be actioned against - then I remain unconvinced.

 

20 hours ago, CxLL said:

Have you never had more than one person with the same name in your phonebook? Then needing to check which number fits which name? Then being forced to memorize multiple digits for each name? That's where you start editing the names. To be able to see who calls you by looking not by checking and comparing numbers. It's a problem. A problem that doesn't need to be created where it doesn't exist.

I have not, no. Phones are also not a good example of this. YOU pick the names of your contacts on your phone, and personal names tend to overlap A LOT. Do you have a friend named Maria? Because you're very likely to have multiple of them, though that might depend on your country of origin. I know multiple people by that name. Online handles are not given but rather chosen, which makes them a lot less likely to overlap. Have you had this problem you mention on Steam or Battle.net? Honest question. Right now my Steam friends list shows 7 people in-game, 18 people online and 128 people offline. No two have the same name, despite Steam allowing duplicate names. Moreover, you offered a solution of your own - rename your own contacts. I don't know if Steam or Battle.net allow this, but Skype certainly does. I have most of my Skype contacts renamed with a localised character set because they kept showing up with either stupid romanisations or weird account names.

Again - can you demonstrate that the issue you're concerned about actually happens within an analogous system? Because if you can, then I'm positive I can come up with simple solutions to where the added convenience of getting the name you actually want exceeds the added inconvenience of a more complex system. Because if my Steam friends list is any indication, non-unique naming cuts down A LOT on stupid untupable names like xXxD4rkR1d3rxXx and SuperSaiyan1998. If the concern is that we have to remember numbers in addition to player's names, that's already happening. Because when players can't get the name they want, a lot of times they'll simply do what that system does anyway and attach numbers of charsequences to their names themselves.

---

To wrap up: every new development meets resistance just like this. The old ways are better, the new ways just bring more problems. I've been on the Internet long enough to see pushback against most things we now see as standard features. I understand the apprehension, I'm not blaming you guys for it. However, I ask that you think through the proposition and actually work through the details with the people you're discussing them with. I also ask that you look at precedent and use information from that. The reason I ask for practical, actionable issues - for examples, essentially - is because a lot of the things which seem scary in theory turn out to be easily solved, easily avoided or not that big of a deal anyway. Non-unique naming is the radical proposal it was 15 years ago. We have considerable experience with it by this point - experience we should learn from.

[GrimAtrament]

don't we already have a name changer?

[Sweeney]

7 hours ago, taiiat said:

if you're going to just lie to my face then there's no discussion to be had here. i guess we're done.

I have not lied. From the very beginning of the thread, I have stated repeatedly that the code could be: visible (but opaque) in chat, visible when you hover over someone's name, visible when you visit their profile et cetera, in other words- very much public.

But go off.

4 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Is it a problem, though? It could potentially be one in theory, this is true. Like I said - I used to argue the same point over a decade ago when Champions Online launched with non-unique naming while City of Heroes had unique names only. Logically, it seemed like that would be bad news. The last decade of services with non-unique names, however, have failed to demonstrate sufficient representation of this problem. For whatever reason, people just don't do that. And when people do do that, they're still capable of being tracked because account identifiers are still unique. What's non-unique is their on-screen visualisation. I apologise for he terse language, but unless you can demonstrate an actual, practical issue which happens in analogous circumstances - one which can be actioned against - then I remain unconvinced.

 

I have not, no. Phones are also not a good example of this. YOU pick the names of your contacts on your phone, and personal names tend to overlap A LOT. Do you have a friend named Maria? Because you're very likely to have multiple of them, though that might depend on your country of origin. I know multiple people by that name. Online handles are not given but rather chosen, which makes them a lot less likely to overlap. Have you had this problem you mention on Steam or Battle.net? Honest question. Right now my Steam friends list shows 7 people in-game, 18 people online and 128 people offline. No two have the same name, despite Steam allowing duplicate names. Moreover, you offered a solution of your own - rename your own contacts. I don't know if Steam or Battle.net allow this, but Skype certainly does. I have most of my Skype contacts renamed with a localised character set because they kept showing up with either stupid romanisations or weird account names.

Again - can you demonstrate that the issue you're concerned about actually happens within an analogous system? Because if you can, then I'm positive I can come up with simple solutions to where the added convenience of getting the name you actually want exceeds the added inconvenience of a more complex system. Because if my Steam friends list is any indication, non-unique naming cuts down A LOT on stupid untypeable names like xXxD4rkR1d3rxXx and SuperSaiyan1998. If the concern is that we have to remember numbers in addition to player's names, that's already happening. Because when players can't get the name they want, a lot of times they'll simply do what that system does anyway and attach numbers of charsequences to their names themselves.

---

To wrap up: every new development meets resistance just like this. The old ways are better, the new ways just bring more problems. I've been on the Internet long enough to see pushback against most things we now see as standard features. I understand the apprehension, I'm not blaming you guys for it. However, I ask that you think through the proposition and actually work through the details with the people you're discussing them with. I also ask that you look at precedent and use information from that. The reason I ask for practical, actionable issues - for examples, essentially - is because a lot of the things which seem scary in theory turn out to be easily solved, easily avoided or not that big of a deal anyway. Non-unique naming is the radical proposal it was 15 years ago. We have considerable experience with it by this point - experience we should learn from.

Sound logic all around.

Thank you.

And that last paragraph and how it applies more broadly, just mmmnf.

 

23 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

don't we already have a name changer?

Yup. Why do you ask?
 

[Sweeney]

4 hours ago, FoxyKabam said:

I don't see it happening anytime time soon if at all because its more work to fix an issue that currently isn't really an issue.

that all said, I wouldn't be opposed to DE implementing non-unique naming, it would fix that frustration some run into when their chosen name is taken, I just don't believe its worth the effort at this point. If the name you want is old and on an inactive account you can ask support for it, I read they'll give it to you sometimes.

Hmm, personally I disagree about how much of an issue it is, but yeah, compared to the billions of other issues needing addressed (years old bugs that force you to abort missions, or falling through the floor of the level, or the countless bugs during bounties that cause you to fail etc.) it's not THAT big.

That being said, with DE tackling crossplay, naming is about to become a much bigger issue than it already is. When SOE/Daybreak implemented crossplay they did a huge name reclaim event. Basically, log in by a certain date, or you'd have to pick a new name when or if you eventually did log back in.

I actually cyber stalked the PC Gregory just now (god I feel like a creep) and while he doesn't post on the forums, he was here 2 years ago, so they probably won't give me his name. And even if they did, it'd only fix the problem for me, not the problem overall.

[FoxyKabam]

1 hour ago, Oakleigh said:

Hmm, personally I disagree about how much of an issue it is, but yeah, compared to the billions of other issues needing addressed (years old bugs that force you to abort missions, or falling through the floor of the level, or the countless bugs during bounties that cause you to fail etc.) it's not THAT big.

yeah I'm not being affected by it, but my tune would change real quick if I couldn't be FoxyKabam or at least one of many FoxyKabam's.

1 hour ago, Oakleigh said:

they probably won't give me his name. And even if they did, it'd only fix the problem for me, not the problem overall.

can't hurt to ask, worst thing that could happen is support says no.

[taiiat]

10 hours ago, FoxyKabam said:

If I had to suggest any change towards our current block/ignore, I'd make it more obvious a player is on your list

okay, i'd buy that.

Edited February 5, 2020 by taiiat

[Sweeney]

On 2020-02-05 at 8:09 PM, FoxyKabam said:

can't hurt to ask, worst thing that could happen is support says no.

Welp...I put in a support ticket. (gah, I'm so embarrassed that I actually asked if I could have someone else's name.)

Imma see if I can't contact Gregory on Warframe. Wonder if he still plays...maybe I can pay him to change his name and free it up.

 

On 2020-02-06 at 12:11 AM, Oakleigh said:

Welp...I put in a support ticket. (gah, I'm so embarrassed that I actually asked if I could have someone else's name.)

Imma see if I can't contact Gregory on Warframe. Wonder if he still plays...maybe I can pay him to change his name and free it up.

There's another name I asked for, which was taken, but definitely old and inactive. I doubt they even made it past the tutorial. In fact it may be an old abandoned account of mine (I've had way too many accounts) but if it is I've long since lost any method of recovering it...

Gregory must have played recently (his operator has the new infested outfit) and he's a closed beta player (how else could he have gotten the name, lol) so that's prolly not gonna happen.

 

On 2020-02-06 at 12:30 AM, Sweeney said:

There's another name I asked for, which was taken, but definitely old and inactive. I doubt they even made it past the tutorial. In fact it may be an old abandoned account of mine (I've had way too many accounts) but if it is I've long since lost any method of recovering it...

Gregory must have played recently (his operator has the new infested outfit) and he's a closed beta player (how else could he have gotten the name, lol) so that's prolly not gonna happen.

Success!

Sweeney's the name, don't wear it out.
 

[FoxyKabam]

14 hours ago, Sweeney said:

Success!

Sweeney's the name, don't wear it out.

Happy it worked out for you, even if you didn't get your first choice. Maybe non-unique naming will be a thing in the future and players can avoid this issue. But for now its good you're not affected by it anymore.

[Sweeney]

10 minutes ago, FoxyKabam said:

Happy it worked out for you, even if you didn't get your first choice. Maybe non-unique naming will be a thing in the future and players can avoid this issue. But for now its good you're not affected by it anymore.

Yuppers. But I still hope it's something addressed soon.

And thank you for the Valentine's Day gift. I just received it. Very kind of you.

[Sweeney]

On 2020-02-04 at 7:31 AM, suchamess said:

lmao this is funny you know ?

So you are telling me that I should get on every game that is created like... ever just for a chance to ^{(maybe somewhere in the future)} play that game with the name I like and use in other games?

This is the part of the problem! There is a warframe account with name that I use in most games, and it's taken by mr 1 beta tester fella who played for 2 hours and never touched this game again.

I support the idea of the OP.

Warframe is not an indiee game anymore played by a thousand people, there are milions of registered loosers that would benefit from this.

I missed this post the first time around.

Gave you an applause rep, because you get it.