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Grendel missions are anti-fun.


(XBOX)Sagacious Beast
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     I'm just coming back to the game after six months or so away. Trying to catch up on new frames and weapons and such. I'm high enough MR that I breezed through the Arbitrations to get Vitus Essence, then I get to the actual missions. These are awful.

     I'll figure out a combination of stuff that lets me cheese through them eventually, but the fact that I'll probably have to resort to time wasting bullS#&$ just to get this frame is pathetic. When did DE get so creatively bankrupt that they though this was a good idea? Even if you had an easy time figuring these out, I simply refuse to believe that these missions are anything but a miserable experience for anybody. 

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The point is to get this frame with an organized team. When Grendel was released and players had tried the missions it was immediately clear that this wasn't going to be like those "drop in and easily finish the mission, if not borderline manageable" types. Solo-playing it is almost impossible and going whatever loadout you want is heavily restricted. Anyone one attempting to do any of these two are guarantee to have a miserable experience.

In an organized team players will be able to complete it, but it's important to mention that some that did voiced that it was "boring, but doable" because of how long the missions lasted. Here's the thread regarding about player's views on Grendel's missions.

 

Edited by NekroArts
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Haven't tryied, but I feel like they are just sighly harder missions that prevent you from using weapons that heavily rely on mod to be good (crit based, shotgun that need 100% status, etc...)

I can't say since I haven't tested yet, but will do them in a few minutes and get back to see if I change my mind.

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15 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

Here's the thread regarding about player's views on Grendel's missions.

 

THE thread?
You could have said something like: "A lot of players actually enjoyed doing these missions. Here is a thread, that shows this."

There always seems to be a lot of discussion around anything, that looks difficult. And the sad thing about this game is, that as long as players are allowed their normal gear, it is pretty much impossible to come up with something challenging, that actually feels like fun. And then the solution is to just take that stuff away. Eidolon and Orb fights pretty much do the same thing and just fail at it.

I also imagine, that new and returning players have a very different experience with these, than the ones, who played them right after they came out.

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22 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

The point is to get this frame with an organized team. When Grendel was released and players had tried the missions it was immediately clear that this wasn't going to be like those "drop in and easily finish the mission, if not borderline manageable" types. Solo-playing it is almost impossible and going whatever loadout you want is heavily restricted. Anyone one attempting to do any of these two are guarantee to have a miserable experience.

In an organized team players will be able to complete it, but it's important to mention that some that did voiced that it was "boring, but doable" because of how long the missions lasted. Here's the thread regarding about player's views on Grendel's missions.

 

Oh, I understand what they were trying to do. They just did it the exact wrong way. I'll admit that I may have been a little harsh about nobody enjoying it, but they seem to be wildly in the minority. The majority consensus seems to be that the missions are either nearly impossible or, as you said, doable but boring. If that's not a problem then I don't know what is. 

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4 minutes ago, gluih said:

THE thread?
You could have said something like: "A lot of players actually enjoyed doing these missions. Here is a thread, that shows this."

There always seems to be a lot of discussion around anything, that looks difficult. And the sad thing about this game is, that as long as players are allowed their normal gear, it is pretty much impossible to come up with something challenging, that actually feels like fun. And then the solution is to just take that stuff away. Eidolon and Orb fights pretty much do the same thing and just fail at it.

I also imagine, that new and returning players have a very different experience with these, than the ones, who played them right after they came out.

Okay, I understand the need to tone down the tenno power creep, but invalidating almost all of the player's previous work seems to me like a bad way to do it.

Edited by (XB1)Sagacious Beast
Misspelling
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1 minute ago, (XB1)Sagacious Beast said:

Okay, I understand the need to tone down the tenno power creep, but invalidating almost all of the player's previous work seems to me like a bad way to do it.

Totally agree with you there.

I personally would much rather see a lot of warframes nerfed. Imo there should be a systematic change to the weapons in the game, so the majority of them are actually a good option to use in high level missions or at least the ones, that have a special version.
One thing these missions show, is that running around without mods actually makes the game difficult, so maybe the mods should be looked at. I don't think the modding system is that great anyway. It doesn't really allow for interesting decisions and on frames, I usually end up modding for 1 ability and how good the frame is depends on how many different stats that one ability needs and if the other abilities work well with the same mod set.

Hopefully, now that there is some serious competition to warframe, there is some motivation to actually do something about this and we don't just have this happy happy fun time approach.

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Personally, I would prefer they just made the enemies level 300 or something like that. If you were around for when this happened more, or are one of the few who still does things like endless defense, you know that to do it at all, you need an organised team. Back before I became ill and couldn't really do long missions w/o solo (need to pause), I used to do these a lot. And since enemies could basically 1-shot your cryopod (or you), and were tanky as all hell, you had to organise and mod together. Frames had to be coordinated to provide buffs so anyone can deal a useful amount of damage, the pod is protected, etc. Auras and dmg types were important. Someone to ensure they can get nullifiers early before they get your frost bubble(s) down was essential. That is a way to create challenge and require team comp without disregarding the ideas of modding and rewarding you for good gear. But it's "scary" to people who have never bothered to try that since you don't need to anymore.

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I can say I very much enjoyed the defense, that was fun. If there was a survival (can't remember but I think there was), it was trivial. The excavation was kinda tedious and boring cause I just did it w/ 1 other friend, and protecting and killing effectively was a pain. Basically just limbo + inaros (protection + energy and not dying + finishers) and cheesing the living S#&$ out of the mission. But, that was our decision because recruiting is a pain, so I can't harp on that too hard.

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12 minutes ago, gluih said:

THE thread?
You could have said something like: "A lot of players actually enjoyed doing these missions. Here is a thread, that shows this."

Sorry, this mission had split views on it that I had to generalized it to make it short. There are key details there that would've made my original post longer such as "actual difficulty because players had to think and planned ahead" vs "it's artificial because it strips the work you put into making your loadout strong". And then there's back and forth regarding this point such as "you're guarantee the part at the end instead of relying on RNG" which has one side arguing "yea, it's guaranteed, unlike some of the previous frames, and is relatively short so it has to be hard" and the other siding with "they didn't have to strip our mods they could've just increase the level".

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il y a 46 minutes, lukinu_u a dit :

Haven't tryied, but I feel like they are just sighly harder missions that prevent you from using weapons that heavily rely on mod to be good (crit based, shotgun that need 100% status, etc...)

I can't say since I haven't tested yet, but will do them in a few minutes and get back to see if I change my mind.

Just did the survival one solo and it was a lot of fun. A bit uncomfortable to play because I use Operator a lot to dodge but still fun.

In my opinion, the mission was the perfect difficulty (doable in one try but not too easy) and I have to say it was one of my best experience in Warframe. We feel a good balanced enemy damage and health, where you are afraid of them, but they don't oneshot you so you still can do something and kill vast groups of them with a bit of strategy and skill even if they are stronger.
About my loadout, I used Saryn, Ogris, Synoid Gammacor and a Zaw.

So yeah, it might not be a good experience for people that play Warframe because it's a chill game and you can kill pretty much everything without efforts, but for people that like challenge, this is a super fun experience and I feel like mods should have lower impact on your gears to get an close experience to this while still having good customisation.

Edited by lukinu_u
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9 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

Just did the survival one solo and it was a lot of fun. A bit uncomfortable to play because I use Operator a lot to dodge but still fun.

In my opinion, the mission was the perfect difficulty (doable in one try but not too easy) and I have to say it was one of my best experience in Warframe. We feel a good balanced enemy damage and health, where you are afraid of them, but they don't oneshot you so you still can do something and kill vast groups of them with a bit of strategy and skill even if they are stronger.
About my loadout, I used Saryn, Ogris, Synoid Gammacor and a Zaw.

So yeah, it might not be a good experience for people that play Warframe because it's a chill game and you can kill pretty much everything without efforts, but for people that like challenge, this is a super fun experience and I feel like mods should have lower impact on your gears to get an close experience to this while still having good customisation.

     I didn't really have an issue with the survival one other than it just being boring. Staying alive isn't really the problem. The other two are a problem because it's not enough to stay alive; you have to protect objectives without the benefit of a reliable ability set.

      Honestly, what I'm getting out of this whole experience is that Warframe is even more busted now than it was when I left. The power cap on us has been effectively blown off and there isn't really any easy or palatable way for DE to reign it in. I don't think difficulty is even really the issue, it's interactivity.

     The player can get through most content being essentially braindead, and the only things that present any threat only do so by invalidating the tools the player has worked - and in some cases paid - for. Take knockdowns for example. At best a knockdown is an irritant, and at worst it's insta-death. There's nothing interactive about the way they work. You just do or do not get dragged down and this may or may not matter depending on your gear.

     This kind of uninteractive, coin-flippy stuff is what made me take a break in the first place and I'm disappointed to see that it's gotten even worse.

TL;DR S#&$ is bad, yo.

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1 hour ago, NekroArts said:

Sorry, this mission had split views on it that I had to generalized it to make it short. There are key details there that would've made my original post longer such as "actual difficulty because players had to think and planned ahead" vs "it's artificial because it strips the work you put into making your loadout strong". And then there's back and forth regarding this point such as "you're guarantee the part at the end instead of relying on RNG" which has one side arguing "yea, it's guaranteed, unlike some of the previous frames, and is relatively short so it has to be hard" and the other siding with "they didn't have to strip our mods they could've just increase the level".

This was just to point out, that saying "the thread" creates the impression, that you are talking about something like an official feedback thread. That's obviously not the case, it's just one thread and it happens, that the OP is in favor of keeping the missions like they are.

Imo it's not too difficult to do these missions in a squad and it actually was pretty fun, just because we got visited by a syndicate squad twice. I really don't feel like doing them again, however and not really being able to kill anything was super annoying.

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