Kuva Lich 1.1: Feedback Megathread

[[DE]Rebecca]

THIS THREAD UNLOCKS IN 2 HOURS to ensure replies are based on at least 2 hours of game-experience with the changes on PC, PS4, and XB1. Practical feedback based on your experiences is what we're looking for here - we look forward to reading it when the thread opens!

Tenno,

We have released a batch of Lich Changes and we'd like your feedback on them!
The changes are:

• The Kuva Larvling Who Lived

Starting from the very beginning of Kuva Lich conception brings us to Kuva Larvlings. Kuva Larvlings will now play a key role in determining your future relationship with your Kuva Lich.

• A downed Kuva Larvling will now display an icon of the Kuva weapon that it’s birthed Kuva Lich will possess!
• This allows players to decide upfront if they want to pursue that weapon by finishing the downed Kuva Larvling, or to ignore and attempt another Lich. The Kuva Larvling will be in this downed state for a max of 30 seconds before it perishes. 

As an added benefit to completing the mission even if you choose NOT to kill the Kuva Larvling, a downed Kuva Larvling will grant 100 Kuva on End of Mission.

 

• Breaking Your Back for Knowledge

The first time my Kuva Lich cracked my back like celery I knew I’d have to settle the score. But, over time- and 100 back-cracks and deaths later- Parazon Requiem Attempts started to feel overly negative. To alleviate some of that back pain, we’ve prioritized knowledge over chiropractic methods: 

• Your Kuva Lich will no longer kill you when you fail a Requiem guess, nor will they attempt to break your back. The Parazon stabbing animation will play but the UI will show whether it was a success or failure. Upon receiving a Requiem fail, your Kuva Lich will laugh at you and leave, leaving your back and dignity intact!

• Valence FUSION

First introduced in 26.0.6, Valence Transfer, now retitled Valence Fusion for clarity, was designed to address owning duplicate Kuva weapons with different unique innate damage bonuses. Giving you the ability to replace a Kuva weapons innate damage bonus (plus investments like Forma, Focus Lens etc) with one from another Kuva weapon was a good start, but we can push this even further!

• Valence Fusion now also boosts your Kuva weapons innate damage bonus. Examples:
• Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be fed into your 40% weapon, to make it 44%
• Your Kuva Kohm with 40% damage can be fed into your 25% weapon, to make it 44%
• Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be fed into your 44% weapon, to make it 48.4%

 

Your Kuva weapon duplicates now offer a gradual progression towards a “perfect” Kuva weapon, which would reflect a 60% damage value, if you choose to pursue this path.

*Clarification on ‘Abandoning Liches’: We have removed the prototype for this for now, because rather than not fixing the core loop and just letting a Lich be banished, we intend to focus on the core loop first. 

*Comment on Murmur hunting - There are some questions about Murmur hunting that are outside the scope of this hotfix, but we will be reviewing in the coming weeks once the above changes are settled in.

NEW KUVA WEAPONS

KUVA HIND (variant)

This powerful Grineer burst rifle has been retrofitted to add semi-automatic and automatic fire modes.

KUVA NUKOR (variant)

A highly-optimized Nukor that allows for the weapon’s microwave field to hit up to four additional targets.

KUVA BRAMMA (new)

This Grineer bow delivers vengeance in the form of cluster bomb-tipped arrows that can be detonated mid-air or on impact.

 

Converted Kuva Lich Changes

Converted Liches have been criticized for their lack of endurance and firepower. They don’t use their abilities, and leave a weak impression. 

• Increased Converted Kuva Lich minimum time to 2 minutes.
• Increased Converted Kuva Lich Damage Per Second with damage bonus upgrade 3x.
• Fixed Converted Kuva Liches not using their abilities.

 

Spoiler

 

Refresher on the best Feedback Practices:

1. Keep it simple

• Write simple, directed points about the topic you feel strongly about. Remember to be constructive and to the point.

2. Back it up

• Support your points with concrete points. X has better stats than Y. This ability is less useful when considering X. Provide in-game situational evidence or a solid foundation for your argument to rest upon.

3. Be polite

• The best feedback occurs when two people discuss opposing viewpoints to find a constructive middle ground. Discussion is a natural part of feedback! Ensuring that it is polite and without personal attacks is key. We’re far less inclined to listen to feedback filled with personal attacks and rude speech. We are all trying our best!

[Lakyus]

Update: Alright, I've scrapped my whole initial review with a new one. After trying to properly grind Liches for a while (3 of them), my point of view didn't change much from before the patch. So here we go. Original post is in spoilers at the end.

Hi, mom! I'm happy that some of the core feedbacks I gave were heard, especially the one about fusing low % weapons to max high % ones. Thank you!

Now, the version 2 criticism. At the end of the day, the most obvious problems were almost solved with the patch. However, many of them were left behind. This time, I'll present the problems and suggestions in the priority of things that bother me, from the most important to the less (but still very important) thing.

• The hunt for Liches is still boring and very time consuming. It takes from 2 to 3 hours for me to finish a Lich, running multiplayer squads and thus speeding it up. I literally went to sleep in the middle of my second Lich yesterday because I couldn't take it anymore. Yay. There are plenty of nice suggestions in this thread on how to improve it, and it seems to be the biggest issue with Liches for everyone.
• Previewing the weapon is awesome, but there is still 1/16 chance for you to get a specific weapon, and it's awful. What if, instead of going inside a mission and spawning a Larvling by yourself, we had many Larvlings spawned in different nodes around the system, something similar to what Syndicates, Nightmare Modes, Fissures etc do? Each Larvling node would spawn a specific type of weapon between cycles. And this specific type of weapon is the same for everyone at the time, so we could help each other find the Larvling we wanted to get?
• We are forced to override the name and element of the fused weapon in Valence Fusion. Allow us to optionally keep the original element (and weapon name, if possible) when using Valence Fusion. This will allow us to go hunt for different element Liches for those fancy Ephemeras while also getting weapons for the % damage increase to max our old weapons, without having to hunt for yet ANOTHER weapon to change the element back to the right one. This is awkward.
• The whole Lich flow feels out of place and isolate. As pointed out by a lot of people in this thread, it would be way better if the Lich was considered an Assassin with his Thralls spawning as deathsquads, similar to how the Wolf of Saturn Six Nightwave happened, in addition to the influence places. This way the Lich would still progress once in a while in normal mission, and we could go straight to their nest to vanquish or convert it whenever we felt like it.
• This is minor, but the animations when attempting to vanquish a Lich became... Meh. I knew this would happen with the removal of the back breaking mechanics after failure, but I didn't expect them to feel so bland. The attempts felt much more organic and dramatical with the back breaking, and I really liked the feeling it gave. I'm not saying that they should come back, but it would be nice if something dramatic like the old attempts happened.

And that's it for now. If anything comes to my mind again, I'll edit this post.

Thanks a lot for the hard work, DE! ❤️

Extra: List of bugs found so far.

Spoiler

1. Liches despawn randomly after being spawned. Couldn't find the reason so far.
2. There is another bug that allows you to keep spamming your Parazon finisher after the first one while the Lich is leaving.
3. Headless Thrall Kavats.
   
   End Mission screen:
   
4. Sometimes the Kuva Larvling does not show the weapon. Happened to an Impact Kuva Kraken (I got the Larvling spawned to check if it was a new weapon that missed the icon, but it wasn't).

Original post archive:

Spoiler

 Hi, mom! I'm happy that most feedbacks I gave were heard, especially the one about fusing low % weapons to max high % ones. Thank you!

So, here we go, with my feedback on it:

Overall, the system is much better with the changes. However, I still think that it can be improved with some tweaks such as:

• Allow us to optionally keep the original element and weapon name when using Valence Fusion. Right now, you must override the name and element with the fused weapon, and it can be awful. This will also allow us to go hunt for different element Liches for those fancy Ephemeras while also getting weapons for the % damage increase alone, without having to hunt for yet ANOTHER weapon to change the element back to the right one.
• The hunt for the liches still takes more time than it feels it should. Please give back the progress boost that we got for every Lich attempt as a bug. It was the most fun time I had hunting Liches! Or, if you are going to keep that away, at least change something to make the dedicated Lich hunt last for half the time. 2 to 3 hours farming Thralls nonstop is not fun.
• This is minor, but the animations when attempting to vanquish a Lich became... Sad. I knew this would happen with the removal of the back breaking ones, but I didn't expect them to feel so bland. They were way more dramatical back then, and I really liked the feeling it gave.
• As pointed out by a lot of people, it would be way better if the Lich was considered an Assassin with his Thralls being a deathsquad, similar to how the Wolf of Saturn Six rolled out. This way we could just do other missions and when we are ready to vanquish the Lich, we can go straight to their nest to vanquish or convert it.

And that's it for now. If anything comes to my mind, I'll edit this post. Thanks a lot for the hard work, DE! ❤️

 

[CandyManCriminal]

super in love with the new patch

first mission Bopp Bipp showed up and kicked ass and i DIDN'T need for farm out a kuva kraken i didn't want and could go try for another lich
this is how it should've launched

i'd like to be able to pick which element is kept when fusing weapons, hunting for different ephemera makes it so i don't always pull the element i want to use, but the bonus increase is glorious

murmur farming still needs some love
possibly just making the lich themselves show up more often would be a good solution
either by just increasing their chance to show up or by leaving them with more anger when stabbed
or just bring back getting progress from other people's liches, that was really great

everything is so much better now tho, now back to lich murder

[fx25v]

The changes seem to be in the right direction, but the murmur farming still needs to be toned down a bit.

[Hello]

I'm still in progress with my first Lich in well about 3 months. Just got off to make dinner. 

Murmurs still seem a bit slow but it's not the end of the world.

The only thing I might suggest (can't believe I am since I normally dislike this), but a hold to confirm for the larvling. A couple times in my mind, I almost hit X for a stealth kill. Thankfully I realized what it was before I did that. Sometimes there's a little delay on the weapon pop up so it doesn't always click what the enemy is when I'm going through the mission.

Overall Lich's feel great now and this is how it should have been on the initial launch.

[ChozenBardoUmbra]

The system still feels too isolated, while we wait for Liches in space, can we make them spawn in any other mission? including thralls, as a kind of incursion or invasion (ala syndicates/stalker).
 

grind for the last murmur still too long.

Lich grab has jedi powers and range (grabs you from too far even if you rolled).

 

aside from that the current changes feel nice, thanks for update.

[Gentleman_Bird]

Here's an idea: Have liches use the back breaker as a finishing move after you're already downed. That'll have them do something unorthodox that establishes them as a personal threat, and it wouldn't feel unavoidable compared to the previous system. Plus you don't have to waste the backbreaker animation.

[VisionAndVoice]

The changes do not even begin addressing the core issues of the lich system.

I do appreciate the alleviated RNG burden, but that is not the real flaw of the system. How isolated the whole thing is.

Liches have so little impact on the general gameplay loop in Warframe they might as well not exist. A player has to go out of their way to interact with them, and there is in fact very little reason to do so outside of their drops. Liches only ever attack you when you are clearing their nodes, and even then not always; the share of resources they steal is so small it can be safely ignored. Getting a lich for yourself is not easy either - as is, larvlings only spawn only in the basic grineer missions with no extra factors and starting from certain levels. What this means is that they can only be obtained in regions on two planets, Saturn and Sedna - anything before that is too low-level, and neither Uranus nor Kuva Fortress qualify because those levels are classified as Archwing missions. It can't be Fissures/Sorties/Arbitrations/Syndicate missions either, i.e. none of the content that mid-to-high players tend to be doing, so there is no chance to get a lich as you do something else. You have to go out of your way yourself to earn a nemesis.

The previous sentence is a perfect summary of wrongness of the current lich system iteration. It presents itself as a system that provides you with a persistent enemy who hunts you down and gives you a threat on equal footing with you; in reality it is a system that provides you with a talking lootbox that tries to annoy you into going after it. It's not an addition to either gameplay or narrative, it's yet another prize box, a box that tries to pretend to be more than that but is blatantly not. In the end it provides you with more mastery fodder and nothing else, like fun or challenging gameplay. Fighting them is moderately fun, but not if to get to those fights we have to jump through so many hoops of cognitive dissonance.

Changes in two directions can help with this:

a) Make liches more apparent: 

- Have them attack you anywhere, not just in their controlled territory missions.

- Expand the array of missions where their larvlings can be met. It is my understanding that this is already intended, but this can't come soon enough.

- Increase the share of loot they take. If I can't be enticed or annoyed into going after them, at least give them a chance to make an actual impact on my economy as a reason to pursue them.

b) Make the process of finding liches once they rise less monotonous. From my understanding it is already an intention, and unfortunately I can't give a more solid feedback about how this can be achieved apart from pointing at that one fan web game, you know which one. So I'll just say that this is also something that can't come too soon.

In response to all of the above some may say that this makes the experience too challenging for some players. And they'd be right. But that's another problem - I think part of the lich system issues stems from the fact that it apparently tries to be available to too wide part of the player base, and as a result fails to satisfy players that are on either margin of this part. It's too hard for newbies, and too boring for veterans. Getting liches available to you as soon as you clear War Within is too early - you can do that long before you hit double-digit Mastery Ranks, about as soon as MR6. That's still newbies. But for such newbies liches are too hard, either finding them or fighting them, but they are still taken into account and difficulty is adjusted for them. Which results in absolutely no challenge for veteran players, with only the grind remaining.

To resolve that I'd propose making liches available later - either tie them to later quests or maybe to a certain Mastery Rank. This way the part of the player base that has to deal with them is smaller, so it'd be easier to balance them for that group.

All in all, again, the changes introduced are appreciated but they are just a band-aid, while they lich system needs a more radical rework to be engaging.

As an addendum - I actually did not mind dying to a lich if I got a wrong requiem mod for them. In warframe death is meaningless and is not a real setback anyway, and it actually helped create an illusion of a tense encounter. Problem is, if the end goal is unrewarding or the general process is unengaging it does not matter if a lich kills you or escapes. Either is just frustration with no pay off. Please, work on the grand pay off rather than smaller details.

[TheFBD]

Did my first lich in a loooong time since i burned out on it and was sure that i'd never touch that gamemode again. Still gave it a try because the "quality of life changes" bring it close to how it should've launched in the first place.

Improvements:

• Weapon preview for larvas: great! who thought having a random chance on a random weapon every 4-6 hours is a good idea? nobody.
• Liches not insta-killing on wrong requiem attempt: great! letting a lich one-hit-kill  a warframe looked cheap AF and even though i didn't care, i can see many people hating it
• Valence Fusion: also great. when you put a random stat on a random weapon and you have just a little respect for players time and effort, at least make garbage drops somewhat useful, as they can be with fusion now
• Buffed kuva lich allies: good. But even with 3x damage boost, they still do almost nothing.

Again, these changes address pretty obvious problems which should've been fixed before launching it.

Still needs improving:

• Murmur farming: still very tedious, when the third requiem mod would take just as many murmurs as the first two, it would still take long, but it would be "ok"
• My lich spawned on uranus and only had 4 nodes occupied. really didn't like to do spy and disruption just to have him progress to the next planet. Even a level 1 lich should immediately take all nodes of a planet so players have a small selection of missions to choose from.
• When a lich spawns and there's a thrall at the same time, they have the same icon. The lich should have a different icon so we don't run to the wrong one all the time

Bugs:

• My lich kept falling through the map when he spawned on an elevator somwhere on jupiter, had to abandom him and finish the mission

[HunterDigi]

Influence gun?

Ability to know the gun before getting the lich is quite welcome, however it still means you have to restart a mission dozens of times until you get the weapon you want, why not have a way to influence the weapon same as with influencing the element?

 

Lich anger and playing with friends

Main issue with thrall farming is inability to play cooperatively without being slower than usual.

My lich spawned controlling sedna and a friend's spawned controlling earth and we want to play together but the game is basically telling us that it's better to play with randoms/solo because playing one of my missions doesn't give anger to my friend's lich and vice versa.

Would be nice if thrall kills angered the lich regardless if the planet is controlled or not...

Or maybe have the first planet be the planet where the larva was killed, then friends that wanna play together can use the same planet to spawn their lich. But that also means you can't start on low level planets like earth and such.

 

Lich spawn is too stubborn

It would be nice to have a way to bait it out or even have a mission where you attack it, like an assassination mission.

Right now I have all 3 symbols and their order figured out and trying to make it spawn is a tedious grind, played several missions where I'm getting nothing out of them, I can't even play a relic or something because those don't anger the lich.

 

Thrall farming stopped when someone kills their lich

It simply discourages people from playing public matches because someone can come in and defeat their lich and now thralls stop spawning, and if it's a mission you can't end quickly (defense, mdef, survival, etc) then you're better off aborting...

 

Random friendly lich spawn

This feature is really pointless IMO, it just freezes the game a few seconds for everyone when it spawns and it doesn't really help at all.

Would rather have a beacon gear item that I can use to request the help of one of my liches (or a specific one for more tactical use) when I actually need them, they could have a cooldown or something similar to air support, but even then I would probably not use them.

[Knaveofclubs]

While my sentiments are stated already, I'll echo what was said:

These changes do fix some problems with the current lich system but my problem isn't with that- my problem is that the lich system is still an extensive vending machine for new gear.

The lich system is still separate from the rest of the gameplay, is not overly engaging, the liches don't feel varied or unique enough, and they don't really pursue you like a "nemesis" would as initially advertised. I wanted a rival, another assassin like Stalker or G3 pursuing me, someone more custom to my experience. That you can see opportunities or side objectives in normal missions you take extra risks for in order to expose or weaken your kuva lich.

Currently the inherent problem is just that the lich weapons are unique to each lich for each drop, and they're additionally tied to mastery. They could be decoupled from each other. And maybe the liches drop a specific resource when engaging with them (like dense kuva or something) that could be taken to a vendor to purchase specific lich weapons. Your kuva lich remains to be a rival, but you can be working towards your next weapon.

But overall the current system as is feels disparate, unengaging, and like a slog of a task for a weapon pinata.

[SolidSnake8774]

My gripes and things I feel that would improve Kuva Liches as a while can be found here.

As for the update.
The immediate problem I noticed with the changes They still have the 'last one to hit the larvaling can kill it' thing. But now that you can see what gun the lich would have.If the person that doesnt want it, leave it, no one else can try and claim it. This makes it still so that you HAVE to hunt larvalings solo to 1. ensure you get the kill on the larvaling and 2. Be able to get the kuva liche's gun if its one you want. Alternative is to open the larvling up to be killed by someone else who doesnt want it in group play. Its not like I dont mind doing this public, its the fact its still made that you HAVE to do it solo, when theres no real need to anymore.

 

I'd also like to add. To have to option to keep the name of the original kuva lich weapon when doing valence fusion. 

[Dark_Lugia]

Till this update I had done 4 Liches and the 5th had a weapon i already got, so I stopped and just ignored him (and everytime i started warframe and the lich greeted me with "Are you ingoring me" I wanted to tell him: yes, since you ain't worth the effort to be killed).

Now i converted him, but I haven´t used the Valence Fusion yet.

With this update i made my 6th one and when i downed the larvling I was trying to remember if I have the weapon or not, so it might be usefull to have a icon indicating if we have the weapon or not (maybe a bit similar to the crafted icon?):

 

During the lich hunt for murmur I had an indestructable object as thrall:

Spoiler

 

And if you kill a thrall the maker takes a bit long till it vanishes, so I often think there has to be a (glitched out) second:

Spoiler

And till I could kill him I meet him only 6times and had all 3 murmurs revealed.

This is imo still a big problem:
The liches are supposed to be nemesis, but we rarely see him. I see him more often in a transmission than in a mission. They are their own little island with no real link to other thing (maybe this is gonna get changes with the railjack expansion).
The next revealed murmur should not be one you already got via trial and error.
The last murmur takes way to long to be revealed.
So for the 3 murmurs the lich spawn rate need to be drastically increased, so we can fight him more often testing which combo is the right one. One planet, one lich spawn is waayyy to low to make trial and error efficient or fun.
And if he doesn´t spawn increase the recieved murmur per thrall.


td:lr: Currently it takes way to long to get the lich spawning  for a good trial and error experience and it takes to long revealing the last murmur (so you have to really grind thrulls, because the lich is almost never spawning)

 

So I guess i will just go for the missing weapons (which now should be unique, thanks for that), so i get the mr exp, but for "perfect kuva" weapons the time you need to spend to get the lich spawning and killed isn´t worth the effort.

[rstripn]

I really like the change from Valence Transfer to Valence Fusion. It quickly reached a point where it felt like there was no reason to ever kill a Lich; this makes it an option for much longer.

The only downside now is that you can't freely choose between elemental bonus type; if you want to keep the damage type on your original weapon and simply consume a new one to raise the bonus, you have to change the damage type to the damage type of the consumed weapon.

[Lightel03]

These changes are a huge step into a great direction, please do us all a favor and thank the staff on our behalf.

And as for the last steps, I do believe there to be only a couple very important ones, but I rather make a post out of that, so here`s some small, but still important, issues :

- Thrall farming is both long and boring. It would be great to add variation to the murmur gathering, or shorten it. Though I advocate for both.

- The Lich system is isolated from the rest of the game, with it`s own special missions and enemies. This, aswell as the issue above, can be fixed by the addition of these things:

Make Liches spawn in random missions, similarly to the Stalker

Make Thrall squads spawn in any mission, similarly to syndicate`s death squads, but much more frequent.

[DrivaMain]

I welcome the changes.

The lich system still feels separated from the main game. Spending 2 hours just to get 1 lich while ignoring everything else will lead to burnout and can be tedious if you want to have max elemental bonus on every weapon. 
 

I would prefer to allow them to spawn in normal missions that is not controlled by the lich as a death squad and allow them to spawn normally in any mission type (be it fissures, sorties, etc) if the node is controlled by the lich.

Second, please just allow is to call in Converted Liches manually. Relying on low RNG and constantly on low health for my boy BIGG JERDNI to come and rescue me is not very reliable.

[Maj-Cero]

Issue I see with Valence Transfer is you can absorb into your current weapon to increase the %'s but it also changes the elemental type if applicable. But if you want to keep your current element transferring into a New weapon will erase all Forma/Gravimag/Rank just to keep your element. Because of this it still makes duplicate weapons useless when farming for ephemeras at the same time. I have two Drakgoons and if I want to fuse them it'll boost me to 60%, but the Element has to be Impact if I want to keep my invested forma/rank on it. 

Wish the system had a way to change the Element to that of which is being absorbed (which is currently how it is), but also had a way to keep Forma/Rank of whichever weapon had the higher value.

Ex. Weapon A has 40% Toxin, 5 Forma, Rank 40; ABSORBING Weapon B with 25% Impact, Rank 0; Fused together Weapon C having +41~ Impact, 5 Forma, Rank 40; Swapping Weapon B absorbing A should have same results, INSTEAD OF CURRENT RESULT being +41~ Toxin, Rank 0

[KCToxic]

Overall enjoying the changes. Not dying every time a lich attempt fails feels a lot better. Missions move a lot more fluidly when you don't have to wait for the lich level up to end to get back up.

Farming murmurs is still a bit tedious. I know it was a bug, but the brief bit when other players' attempts on their lich gave everyone progress felt really good for the time we had it. 

I like the idea others have suggested in the thread of the lich or its thralls spawning in regular missions on a controlled node or planet. It would give more opportunities to hunt the lich or its thralls at least without separating from the main game and could spice up some missions. To prevent ruining the game for lower level players or teammates who are levelling gear, there could be a rule where a lich won't spawn in a normal mission if a teammate has never completed The War Within or one that follows what Stalker does and disables it spawning on someone with a low level warframe equipped. 

More of a QoL thing but what if there was a subtitle on the lich when they spawn that says which player they belong to? It's not uncommon to have teammates telling each other to stab their lich when someone forgot it was their lich. It doesn't help sometimes the lich's name bugs out and sets itself to Agor Rok from the tennocon demo, but a subtitle saying who that lich belongs to on the health bar would negate that entirely. 

Liches sometimes still spawn hundreds of meters away on a different floor, forcing the team to back track a lot, don't know if that's intended. 

[Lewdcifer]

Spoiler

Uncharacteristicly, a slightly more functional piece of UI. Then you realize that it still don't have the so beloved hover function to show the requiem name.
It wasn't a thing, it isn't a thing, but it should be a thing. Let us see the requiem names.

And in case the message isn't clear, it doesn't mean we want unnecessary hover everywhere else. Stop

[Berzerkules]

The new icon for thralls on mini map makes it hard to find them when  there are many enemies in close proximity to the thrall. The icon is solid red and only slightly different than the red triangle for regular enemies. If there was like a black outline around the thrall icon it would be a little easier to pick the thrall out of a crowd. 

Lich will still spawn like 400m behind the whole squad sometimes. Just slows the whole process down when you have to backtrack to fight a lich or several lich if you are in a party. Seems you all are trying to streamline the lich thing and this seriously slows down missions. 

Besides that. thx for the changes. 

p.s. revert the "fix" to how ephemera interact with Mirage's eclipse skill plz and ty 

[Azvalk]

I'm globally very happy with this update, and here is my feedback about the one thing that bothers me.

Lich's random weapon . '-'
Yes, we can see what will be the weapon of the lich, and therefore choose to ignore it if we do not want it. I'm happy about that, but..
Result ?
1-Launch a short mission
2-Rush
3- Attract and defeat a larvling
4-Verification..
5-hm .. not the right one, end or abandon mission ° - °

There are 16 Kuva weapons, currently .. ( And I hope always more in the future ^^ )
I let you contemplate the extent of the repetition of this procedure when looking for a particular weapon, this is simply not viable.

So, I suggest 2 things:
First:
For each Lich defeated or converted, we receive a "token" item.
This token can be used with an npc, probably Palladino.
The effect: The next larvling attracted will carry the weapon of our choice.
But beware, only the weapons already obtained, and mastered, can be chosen.

These weapons have 40 lvl. And need 5 forma to be at their max.
This is 6 sessions of exp. The players wanting to max out a kuva weapon are therefore already in grind session, this is really not the time to have them go through a repeat mission loop.

Secondly:
Each mastered weapon has a 50% less chance of appearing after ignoring a larvling that offered it.
These odds are reset at the time of the daily connection reward.
This should help quickly find a new weapon, with less frustration of seeing weapons already mastered that we do not want to see again for the moment.

Even with these 2 suggestions here is the summary of the RNG elements in lich system:

- Random weapon.
- Random damage bonus %.
- Characteristics of the Lich.
- Lich encounter.
- Requiem mods in relics.
- Ephemera

So, even if my 2 suggestions may seem to be "too much" to facilitate the acquisition of the desired kuva weapons, there is really no need to worry, there is still enough Rng in the system to ensure its replayability. This is essentially what Rng is for isn't it? ^^ '

[waterboytkd]

4 hours ago, Lakyus said:

Allow us to optionally keep the original element and weapon name when using Valence Fusion. Right now, you must override the name and element with the fused weapon, and it can be awful. This will also allow us to go hunt for different element Liches for those fancy Ephemeras while also getting weapons for the % damage increase alone, without having to hunt for yet ANOTHER weapon to change the element back to the right one.

Have you tested this yet? I saw a report on these forums to something much stranger happening: the poster claimed that the elements were combining (elec weapon and a fire weapon combined into a rad weapon). Here was the post: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1166133-3-valence-fusion/?do=findComment&comment=11353561

At the time of me posting this, that poster hasn't responded to any of my questions yet.
 

 

[waterboytkd]

@[DE]Rebecca So far, some great things. I skipped a Kuva Seer I absolutely did not want. My next Larvling had the Hind, so I did that lich in its entirety since the patch. 

Grinding murmurs still feels a bit tedious. I would love seeing Thralls spawning in other content we run (so we progress the lich while doing other stuff in game), or have the Lich-specific missions have rewards that contribute to other game activities (giving us Kuva, Void Traces, Universal Medallions, Amber Stars, even Riven Shards).

And freeing a whole planet could give bigger rewards, like refined rare relics, Forma (finished, not blueprints), Orokin Catalyst/Reactor blueprints, and even a small chance for really sweet stuff, like the new Umbra Forma blueprint or Legendary Cores (really REALLY small chance).

[Kryptonex-EN-]

The Kuva Lich system feels like a one time only Boss Fight because it is too tedious to get to the end...

All these little mechanics are interesting and bring excitement but for me personally, the Murmur farm...it's already unrewarding enough to make a layered RNG system: run around in random missions for a chance to spawn a Kuva Larvling, farm relics that have a limited drop chance, open them with a limited chance to get X mod, farm murmurs in countless missions with a certain chance of Thrall spawns, then you have to wait for the Kuva Lich to randomly show up when it feels like it. I mean, without even mentioning the guess/puzzle game involved, it's already tedious after the first murmur mod reveal.

I'm not a game developer but my suggestion would be something like increase the murmur drop rate or make relics drop actual mods unlike the last 3 runs I did, in which I wasted 300 fissures in a squad where each had a Radiant relic, not one mod dropped in those 3 runs, just the thought that I had to farm the relics again without even progressing one step in the Lich hunt made me switch to another activity in the game as I felt like wasting my time.

I didn't play the Kuva Lich at release as I like to wait for tweaks and updates, but after the recent changes I decided to come here and give some feedback, I love the attention to details like the Progenitor Warframe and Valence Fusion mechanics but I'd rather hunt Eidolons for hours (which I find much more interesting and engaging, might I add) than play this. It's not even about the rewards, I think they're nice, it's that the layers of RNG makes any player frustrated fast. I would rather play two hours in which I'm constantly progressing than one hour in which I take two steps back after trying to progress one step, which is what this feels like. Don't reduce the RNG, reduce the many layers you've made.

I'd also like to add that the amount of "stealing" the Liches do should be increased. I have millions of Credits and hundreds of thousands of Salvage, like most players that hunt them, a few hundred stolen can barely be called motivation to pursue them.

[Slayer_of_PCs]

@[DE]Rebecca

please allow us to see whether a larvaling will spawn with ephemera when their weapon is displayed. 
 

I would also like to see the current bonus on a Kuva weapon (e.g., 51.5% Heat). This is important as I forget what my current bonuses are and I won’t be able to use my codex of vanquished liches to research it after doing Valence Fusion. It would be nice to see this on the forge as well.