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Kuva Lich 1.1: Feedback Megathread


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as a lot of other players have commented, making the elemental bonus increase as the lich ranks up is going to make the added effort of killing a rank 5 lich a little bit more worth it. i'm pretty sick of constantly rolling 25-27% bonuses and having to spend another few hours trying to valence all my crappy rolls. out of 15 liches i've done, 8 have had bonuses 27% or less and only 2 have been above 40%. MORE THAN HALF OF MY KUVA WEAPONS HAVE MINIMUM OR NEAR MINIMUM ROLLS (and 3 are krakens from before the latest patch), and the liches are almost always rank 5 by the time i'm done playing the stupid guessing game. i'm so SO SICK of seeing the word "mercy". don't get me started about railjack drops, and i pretty much have done all the other content. ugh, typing this makes me feel like uninstalling..

afterthought: don't further punish bad elemental bonus rolls with more grind for valence. make it so that if the resulting bonus AFTER one valence is still less than 40%, it just becomes 40% (which i feel is a reasonable bonus where the non-minmaxers can stop at). getting repeated rolls below 30% sucks enough, trying to improve the roll shouldn't take days and days if i have crap rng (first to get the right larvling [some player control over this, though takes time or luck], then a good enough bonus [no player control at all], then guessing the right requiems [takes time or luck]).

Edited by Shy0
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Il y a 15 heures, 1n5tanc3 a dit :

As someone who plays this game mostly solo, what a catastrophic failure this Lich has been. Going up against swarms of Grineer on god only knows what level being one shotted constantly is a game killer. Attempting any mission type, Especially excavation,  has become a joke. Will probably find something new to play as clearly zero thought was put in for solo, same as rail jack which I don’t even bother with anymore. What a waste of code. My humble opinion. 
 

DE completely ignoring solo players yet again. 

Why are you choosing to play Warframe solo? I really don't get it. The best moments I had in this game was in friend parties, I very rarely have issues with others, maybe 2 I can recall since game release, and the few time I did was to be honest sometimes on me(missunderstandings)... The level of dedicated toxicity(there are some obnoxious stuff here or there ^^) is way lower than in any MMO for sure.

Farming liches solo is ok, in fact I choose missions based on personnal preferences rather than meta choices and I start often solo, and it works fine even if nobody's join. Full lich farming atm is definitely possible solo and not that far from organized 4 men rentability wise. I'd be happy to give you small advices that make it way easier and do not require expensive or hard to farm mods, weapons or frames but something tells me you're not into that.

Citation

afterthought: don't further punish bad elemental bonus rolls with more grind for valence. make it so that if the resulting bonus AFTER one valence is still less than 40%, it just becomes 40% (which i feel is a reasonable bonus where the non-minmaxers can stop at). getting repeated rolls below 30% sucks enough, trying to improve the roll shouldn't take days and days if i have crap rng (first to get the right larvling [some player control over this, though takes time or luck], then a good enough bonus [no player control at all], then guessing the right requiems [takes time or luck]).

The fact that Kuva weapons have already extremly good stats and come already crafted is something huge. You can still use it right away and merge lvl1 ones into it to boost the damage to the cap. It is a lenghty process but this way at least you get the mastery and you are already able to "fix" elemental bonus of any weapon already maxed, the only ressource needed for that are time and a free weapon slot. Also the elemental choice has far more impact on the weapon behavior than the roll and it is guaranteed.

 

Honestly guys I'm one of the few who think that the current system is already good. Those weapons have very adequate power level, can be minmaxed solo and the variance for killing a lich is atm quite acceptable imho.

Edited by Galuf
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Desperately need a way to literally get rid of a Lich.

Had the displeasure of accidentally mixing him up with a capture target. The icons are both red and with how fast pace the missions can go, I easily mix up the red icons with targets, liches and downed teammates. Especially when you are running a mission over and over again and you fall into the habit of clicking on the red icon that's running away because that is what capture targets do.

After that, I am locked into the Lich weather I meant to grab it or not. In this case, it was a mixup of the same color icons, and now I am forced into having to deal with a Lich that I have no interest in at all. I gain nothing from the Lich, I have the weapon it offers, and I have no reason to want them at all to convert them. Basically, I am now stuck wasting my time getting rid of something I don't want, wasting the mods that I already had to farm via RNG, and the horrible grind for murmurs.

It's pretty awful. At this point I feel like I am being forced into having to play through the Kuva Lich Electric Boogaloo just to get rid of it and move on. Sure I could ignore it but I honestly get so annoyed with them constantly talking to me that I can't help but just feel disinterested in playing. I get the incentive is to make you want to take them on, but if I gain nothing by doing so, it's just another thing that causes me to become disinterested in playing Warframe. When there isn't much for me to do but farm Lich weapons or maybe some Railjack, I guess I feel like I need to step away and wait until some kind of Kuva Lich Removal system is put in without sacrificing my mods/time.

At this point I'd even be willing to pay in Kuva or Platinum to get this accidental Lich out of my game so I can enjoy it again.

Edited by Echo
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9 hours ago, Galuf said:

Why are you choosing to play Warframe solo? I really don't get it.

Why would anyone choose to play it in groups?

Maybe they have a terrible Internet connection, or perhaps they just don't like people.

In any case, it's quite possible to solo liches. Pretty much all of mine have been solo. If there's a defence or a hijack, I'll do that on public mode when my lich has minimal anger (both to make more enemies spawn for more thralls, and also on hijack so that I can watch the core more closely), but absolutely everything else is done solo so that nobody else messes up my thrall farming (such as charging ahead or shooting my lich in the face before it's finished making thralls and spamming "HURR DURR STAB HIM" in chat).

On 2020-03-01 at 9:25 AM, 1n5tanc3 said:

As someone who plays this game mostly solo, what a catastrophic failure this Lich has been. Going up against swarms of Grineer on god only knows what level being one shotted constantly is a game killer.

This depends entirely on your choice of warframe, and how much you jump around like a monkey on crack. For excavations and MD, when I solo those, I take Frost. Excavation, I try to do when the lich's anger is high so that he'll spawn and make more thralls, MD works either way.

For excavation, I just run around avoiding the drills and killing normal enemies so that I can get the mission's 10 normal thralls. If the lich spawns, I run far away from it, finish getting the normal mission thralls and when I've gotten all 10, I run back towards it so that it can convert its 10 thralls. Make sure that you immediately kill any power cell carriers, rollers, noxes, drahks, hyekkas and their respective beastmasters (so that they don't spawn more) - they'll be converted, but don't give murmurs and will therefore waste one of your lich's thrall conversion ability casts. Seekers too - while they give murmurs, their rollerballs can be converted and will waste the lich's thrallmaker cast.

Once you've got all your murmurs (on a completely ideal run, you'll come out with 20), you can then keep shooting your lich in the face until they run away (I never, EVER attempt to parazon them unless it's either their last node left or I have all of the symbols and need to test the order) and then do the mission as normal.

Disruption is similar - I normally use slowva to make the suicide bombers easier to handle, but again I run around first getting my thrall quotient before even beginning the mission. Just as with excavation, I remove the lich before starting the actual mission - while they won't harm the conduits, they will certainly get in your way when you're trying to prevent the exploding lunatic from getting their 72 virgins.

MD doesn't work for this, so I just do the mission as normal and take some weapon that kills large numbers of mobs as quickly as possible, so that I get as many thralls as possible during the infinite spawn period when you're defending the console. Don't forget that you can only have 2 mission-spawned thralls at once (whether alive or kneeling), so you will need to go out of the bubble and shank them ASAP.

Exterminate and capture are simpler, just take anything that can handle high level grineer (whether tankiness, nuking or stealth) and run it as normal.

Hijack is annoying, but they're rare and you can just skip them if you really don't like it.

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So I'm a solo player... it's just how much (or little) time I have.  I accidentally started a lich (didn't really realize what I was doing) and lo and behold, I now have an abusive stalker who I can't do anything about.  I can't solo kill eidolons, and there is no way that I can solo crack open the requiem relics to try to deal with this terrible nuisance that I accidentally woke.  And now I'm not even wanting to play any more as he's slowing but surely taking over my entirely system (he's got like 6 planets worth now, including some of my favorite hunting grounds).  At this point I don't want to deal with him anymore... I just want him to go away.  I was trying to finish my railjack and now even that's been stopped (and I'm on the tail piece) because I can't survive because of my lich and his spawnlings.  So seriously, is there any way to just make him go away?  I don't even care if I lose all of the stuff he's been taking from me at this point.  I just don't want to deal with him any longer.  And no, I can't really add more time to play multi-player, and no, I can't really get my clan to help (they barely exist at all actually), and no, none of my many many frames are tough enough with the mods that I have.  So yeah, that's my problem as there are just some things that aren't really acquirable without joining a group and some places I just can't go as a solo player, but yeah, I'm probably going to quit playing altogether if he keeps harassing me and taking over my solar map.  And I used to quite enjoy playing this... I've even purchased a few of the prime packs and such... not because I couldn't build them, but because I enjoy the game and I wanted to contribute a little bit financially.  But if I quit, then I won't be contributing anything anymore...

Anyway, yeah, if there's some way to just make him go away, then I'm all for it.  And no, I don't need any harassment from the community.  I'm a solo player, it's just who I am and how I play games.

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I would love if liches went out on their own resource gathering missions (e.g. relics from Void nodes, void traces from fissure nodes, credits from Corpus nodes) which we could ambush them on and steal the resources they were trying to gather! They can steal from us, but we can also steal from them!

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I never set out to create a Kuva Lich (least favorite system I've seen in 2.5K hours played, beside my point), but they kept popping up in missions and so I figured if I killed/created one then the minor nuisance would go away.

Instead, in my ship I am constantly being taunted by the pop-up speak and there is no way to turn the Lich taunts off.

I just want him to STFU.  Please... please...

 

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On 2020-03-02 at 4:40 PM, AekinJay said:

[The Lich is] slowing but surely taking over my entirely system (he's got like 6 planets worth now...)

I did not realize this was a thing.

giphy.gif

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I truly hope we have the chance to make the lich goes away  or to end their contracts. Its extremely frustrating  to be honest , I mean  most of the liches  I've killed has 25 to 29% wep bonuses .and to max them out you need at least 4 to 5 more weps ? I am not sure tbh but its just too much and the whole process need to be done repeatedly  every time . I have killed over 30 liches and i was extremely desperate for one single ephemera  and got nothing  because sadly now ,everything is RNG AND LUCK  . Every time i try to kill the lich , I always hope for a  good bonus  but  none of that happen ofc and I have to waste at least 2 hours again just to get rid of this lich because there is no other way to do that and he will bother annoy the living hell out of you until you kill him to get rid of him . I hope they do something about it

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Gotta agree, this idea was a failure in an attempt to stimulate play to remove an annoying irritant that just won't shut up till you grind away for a few hours & good luck on Switch, no one wants to bother with this garbage so most of the time unless you get lucky in gathering a group of masochists for a run to randomly generate a rune or requiem or wtf ever you wanna call it from 4 possible choices NONE of which may be one that will allow you to finally remove this eyesore from your screen, much like the NWs Miss Mouthy, at least this joke doesn't take up half the screen on occasion.

I just came back after NW season 1 burned me out & I come back to Railjack being another dose of joke content attempting to make multiplayer co-op more than a once in awhile thing, to bad it costs so much to do & rewards so little that the time spent could merit FAR more rewards doing solo missions.

But this Lich thing is just the dumbest thing, the enemy isn't "unique" it's a gated bullet sponge, why would they think that a good idea? what was wrong with making stuff more like the various Stalker rip offs? shows up after doing the right things to piss off the right people, have a fight, kill or die, enemy goes goresplosion or Poof's into the ether laughing at your battered carcass.

Someone needs to stop listening to whoever it is that keeps coming up with this stuff that sounds great in concept but makes it feel half a$$ed in development & execution, unavoidable or just not worth the time or effort, I would wanna see one of these DE devs who espouse how AMAZING this new system is sitting there for hours to deal with this for a crap random reward or one they already have.

I'd hazard to bet by hour 2 they'd be foaming at the mouth or asleep with the controller hanging halfway outta their hand.

Serious lack of empathy, if you wouldn't have fun doing it why the hell would you think anyone else would? PLAY this content, bugs & all then come back & tells everyone how AMAZING it was.

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With the upcoming re-implementation of the shared Kuva-Lich Murmur progress it is due to talk about the now more important Rage Meter.

Current State:

After killing thralls in missions where your Kuva-Lich has influence over his Rage Meter fills a bit. If you kill thralls in a "taxied"-mission that your Kuva-Lich currently has no influence over you don't get any Rage-Progress.

Why is that important?

When you are playing in a premade squad not everyone's Lich has control over the same mission or even the same planet. That means it is impossible to choose a mission so that everyone's Lich gets more angry. A calm Lich means that he is less likely to invade you. No invasions mean no free Requiem-Mod try nor free Murmur (and Kuva).

Logical Optimal way of playing:

Go into a public mission as a solo player and play with 3 randoms.

The problem:

I want to play with my buddies in an optimal way.

My Suggestion:

Just make it so that everybody's Lich gets angry when you kill Thralls. It only makes sense because you get Murmur(Insight) of the Weakness of your Lich by killing the Thralls and witnessing the attempt of a Lich-kill and it does not matter for those if they are the thralls of your lich or not.

Edited by Ethanil
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I love the new lich changes and was happy to hunt them right up until the moment I accidentally  spawned one I didn't want, twice.  Despite the insults I received in a separate thread, I press on in my quest for a simple hold-to-confirm-X for larvling acceptance since no option to abort the lich process exists.  It's easier than one might think to make that mistake.

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After finally ranking up and sparring with my first Lich:


1. Their (Lich) damage resistance is only slightlytoo high.
Status doesn't work at all on them? Bummer. Bosses should compliment your damage system, not ignore it ya big sillies! 😃 ..the fights I've had with a max rank Lich feel protracted to the point of boredom. I'm dealing around 6-22 damage with most of my weapons I've tried so far, which takes actual forever.. ~13 min with my favorite Hydroid/weapons.. I start to consider that the mission will fail if I stay too long.. so I bail, ignoring the Lich. I can kill it In Theory, but in practice it's going to take several minutes of spamming an attack, rolling compulsively which makes the fight longer, and (still) getting thrown sometimes. Normally mechanics like corrosive and shattering impact bring enemies down to size.. but in the longest fight I've encountered in game, it's a bit bereft of mechanics we can use. We got Parazon, but lost all status, staggers, parries, CC, knockdown, finishers, etc.. and that certainly doesn't help compliment the fight. The long fight doesn't bother me near as much as being able to lose the mission while I do it. I like the idea of that... though the practice of it is just tedious and limited. Thinking it's off by a single digit like ~4% of damage reduction too much.. not saying drastically off at all, but just enough to push it uncomfortably far, with no way to reduce it. ...By the way, anyone know why my Lich is arbitrarily invincible for like 40 seconds when I first encounter it? I don't.

2. I want to counter the grabs!
I so deeply want grabs and throws like they have.  I want them in Frame fighter, also... but more immediately, I want to be able to Parry their (Lich) grabs. A very tight window to be able to counter. (~300ms depending feel/grab type.) Currently, Rolling works ok, but is lacking in a few respects. Sometimes, rolling from a grab just makes you get grabbed meters away from the animation, still throwing you. Similar to the self-damage stagger recovery mechanics we've just gotten... more, subtle QTE like that are welcome.

3. Thralls mission mob damage is only slightly too low after update 27.2.0
While shield gating could have alleviated the 1 hit ko problem, and fixing enemy aimbots could have alleviated it, too... we got both. Which is Excellent!.. and also shows just how little damage they've been doing all along. Maybe my builds are just covered with pillows and security blankets in anticipation of now dead features (thank you very very much, btw) I went from dying 3-4 times, to not at all. Perhaps it's safe to give the enemy a bit more Umph now they're not practically cheating, and we've got some baked in safety measures.

Edited by kapn655321
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  • TYPE: IN-GAME or ACCOUNT BOUND (Specific Unsure)
  • DESCRIPTION: INABILITY TO SPAWN A KUVA LARVALING/ NEW KUVA LICH IN SOLO MODE AT ANY LEVEL 20 or HIGHER GRINEER MISSION
  • VISUAL: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1170016-inability-to-spawn-a-new-kuva-lich/ or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDcwzBHHbrs&feature=emb_title
  • REPRODUCTION: UNKNOWN
  • EXPECTED RESULT: A KUVA LARVALING TO SPAWN IN MISSION SO I CAN GET A NEW KUVA LICH
  • OBSERVED RESULT: NO KUVA LARVALING SPAWNS THEREFORE INABILITY TO GET A NEW KUVA LICH
  • REPRODUCTION RATE: UNKNOWN
  • ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: THE WAR WITH QUEST DONE/ MULTIPLE LICH KILLS/ WORK AROUND IS TO RUN PUBLIC MISSIONS NOT A THE HOST
  • WHY THIS NEEDS A FIX: SOLO PLAYERS CAN HURT FOR THEIR KUVA WEAPONS, THE HAS BEEN MULTIPLE THREADS CREATED WITHOUT [DE] RESPONSE

 

Solo kuva larvaling spawns are screwed up for a small percentage of players who want to hunt for kuva weapons and make them 60%, this has been a long time bug with little or no response from DE. There have been multiple threads regarding this issue yet there has been a lack of hotfix for solo players.

Running in public is not an option because people race towards the larvaling and kill it.

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Lich farm is even more painful than avionics. 100 Kuva is not even justified for me to drag myself to finish the match, just to start a new mission yet again to farm. I have lost count how many missions I have aborted simply because I cannot find the larvling with the weapon I need.

It is tremendously frustrating when I can't produce a lich with a weapon that you desire after 40 speedruns, considering the wide variety and there's more to come in the future. I do wish RNG can do me a favour but I doubt so. I don't mind the grind if it was remotely fun, the whole lich gameplay is just another grind island with higher lvl enemies mission, requiem mod farming and parazon stabbing cutscenes.

Why can't we get a dropped item for killing liches (ours/friends) and use that item to trade for specific weapon at palladinos at randomised % of the element of whichever frame is equipped when trading with palladino.

Edited by Legacynium
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I just spent 71 minutes speed running Cassini and I couldn't get a lich with the gun I wanted. That's almost 50 runs.

 

DE, when you say you fixed anything, I just don't believe you.

Do you think this is enjoyable?

I would like to know who at DE thinks hunting liches in its current form is fun. Go on, respond in this thread, because I am CHOCK FULL OF VITRIOL AT THE MOMENT, and would love to spray some at you.

 

 

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So I'm "doing" my first Lich but nut really. 
Liches feels like a 3 way grind. you grind the servants( or whatever thier name) to know wich requiem mod you need. Then grind requiem relics and upgradee them for better drop chance. And as rigth know I completly left my lich alone just because that murmur grind. I havent relly commited myself to it because first time farming those mobs I went on a surv mission so I get a lot of them. Silly me... I got a lot of them in 20 minutes and left thinking I will know at least one and a half requiem but no I barely know 1 halfway. 
And that's not even what I imagined. I thought Liches will be our nemesis and stuff hunt us like the Stalker but more frequently farming it's servants should just reveal it's location and then a normal assasination mission. But they just sit on a planet untul you grind yourself to the point you can kill them.
Sure you don't need to change them yet, but at least lower that murmur grind. Pls.

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12 hours ago, AltairFerenc said:

So I'm "doing" my first Lich but nut really. 
Liches feels like a 3 way grind. you grind the servants( or whatever thier name) to know wich requiem mod you need. Then grind requiem relics and upgradee them for better drop chance. And as rigth know I completly left my lich alone just because that murmur grind. I havent relly commited myself to it because first time farming those mobs I went on a surv mission so I get a lot of them. Silly me... I got a lot of them in 20 minutes and left thinking I will know at least one and a half requiem but no I barely know 1 halfway. 
And that's not even what I imagined. I thought Liches will be our nemesis and stuff hunt us like the Stalker but more frequently farming it's servants should just reveal it's location and then a normal assasination mission. But they just sit on a planet untul you grind yourself to the point you can kill them.
Sure you don't need to change them yet, but at least lower that murmur grind. Pls.

It is a very long grind. I think it requires something like 180 Thralls (and only thralls; no matter how long you stay in any mission only a maximum of 20 can spawn -- parazon kills on regular enemies don't add murmurs) 

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I like the idea of liches, but it needs a alternative to get murmur and encounter the lich

My suggestion for farming murmur would work in rathuum. In the arena environment you will both have the option to fight for kela points or killing thralls to aquire murmur.
The require murmur amount could be decreased, to ease off the time consumption,

For encountering the lich, it could be located where kela is (same node) or even a railjack mission with his own ship. For accessing him you woudn't need the murmur, you could guess which mod to use playing the mission multiple times, but if get the mod wrong, he will instantly kill you and the mission will fail, this could give the player more options to fight his lich, farming for murmur in the arena would give you the exact mod needed therefore giving the player more options and leaving the player less annoyed about the grind.

The acquiring method for the lich could be the same since it's fine

The lich would still appear normally in mission but failing would get you killed, just in the specific mission for him.

Edited by Mascarado_gamer
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A downed Kuva Larvling will now display an icon of the Kuva weapon that it’s birthed Kuva Lich will possess!

Although it helps, the RNG makes it a nightmare experience still.

Tried to get a Kuva Nukor for a day to ups my current one(no less than 30 tries), didn't get it.  Tried on 2nd day(no less that 30 tries again) but will accept Kuva Ogris if it pops up, no luck.  On the 3rd day(20+ tries I guess), still no sight of the 2 weapons.  4th day, finally got a Nukor with a glorious 28% bonus by giving all my free time to it(atleast 60 tries).  See the problem here?  

If you guys take suggestion, mine is to give us the ability to kill the Lich early with little of no rewards at all.  By sabotage I guess? Setting the Lich's base or ship ablaze?

 

On 2020-02-05 at 2:50 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Your Kuva weapon duplicates now offer a gradual progression towards a “perfect” Kuva weapon, which would reflect a 60% damage value, if you choose to pursue this path.

If you're lucky, sure.  But constantly getting less than 30% bonus and only getting an upgrade of 5% per fusion is just saddening to think of.  

Here's my lich history and guess how pathetic I felt farming murmur for most of the Liches: 

https://i.imgur.com/JpNfZNN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/W2lObRD.jpg

To add insult to injury, 1st requiem for the sequence gets revealed mostly last.

https://i.imgur.com/K8Genm1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QMM7GzJ.jpg

Or just be plain unlucky:

https://i.imgur.com/RcxtUr3.jpg

 

Given how bad my experience was, I think my active Lich(bramma w/ 25% bonus) will be my last till this "nemesis" system gets a major overhaul.  The whole process/mechanic feels like an attempt to force the unlucky to buy(use platimum) from the few lucky people. Because just look at the process:

-spawn a larvling with the desired weapon (RNG weapon , high chance of getting low  % bonus instead of random from 25 to 60)

-farm murmurs by guess what?... excavation, sabotage, exterminate... no new dedicated mission mode, so unimaginative or just being lazy

-get the proper requiem mod by:

                                   -getting requiem relics from kuva siphon/flood mission and RNG thrall drops

                                   - RNG relic unlock or just use plat 

-know the sequence of the requiem mod (why tho? and why reveal at random order? why not reveal by order?)

-pray your "nemesis" spawns when you need him to(lvl 5 and at almost full or complete full rage meter sometimes still takes 2-5 missions to spawn the Lich)

-enjoy your new 25% Kuva weapon, no tons of items for bringing down an enemy that controls an army populating multiple planets... just the weapon + ephemera if lucky

 

Just let us kill the damn Lich early.

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

It is a very long grind. I think it requires something like 180 Thralls (and only thralls; no matter how long you stay in any mission only a maximum of 20 can spawn -- parazon kills on regular enemies don't add murmurs) 

180? thats a lot. like yeah if that 20 felt a lot to me then god help me I won't do 180. I won't touch my lich until the murmur grind get's lowered. Thats almost as ridiculus as the hema grind for me, that's the only thing in the game that i bought with platinum and did not farmed it(not counting cosmetics ofc)

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I also have yet to understand HOW these things "Steal" anything or demand a payment in their system like a Mob boss, what the hell is the story behind this goofy mechanic? are the tenno paying up out of guilt? seriously, how does this mechanic factor in at any point in any capacity with a functional narrative?

The Lich holding hostages? at this point truth be told the constant "I'll get you next time Gadget" Dr claw messages every 10 minutes or so is more annoying than losing a rare mod & 2000 credits, is THAT really the best idea for a "Nemesis" some loud annoying guys you can't just turn off? Good to see DE continuing it's trend of bad ideas from Mrs Mouth & Nightflush.

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I feel like Murmurs need more options to be farmed from, like the Standing from Cetus and Fortuna, you have a lot of ways to get it so it doesn't become boring and monotonous... Thralls are boring for this very reason, they are the only option the System provides to get the murmurs (besides brute forcing the requiems), which makes this mechanic a single straight line of grind.

Since I already mentioned this on reddit I'd like to put the suggestion here for the feedback, the ideas I would suggest for the future would be:

• We could have a panel on the Kuva Lich's profile to see challenges like "Kuva Lich Alert Missions" that would reward with bonus Murmurs and probably other things such as Kuva or Relics upon completion while offering more difficulty or a different gameplay (Just like the Nightmare Missions or Sorties).

• Get bonus Murmurs upon clearing a planet from the Kuva Lich's control.

• Make the Kuva Lich pursue you followed by Thralls on common missions depending on the Rage Meter (like the Wolf of Saturn Six) so they reward you with Kuva and Murmurs upon defeating the Lich invasion. (This could also give the Lich the chance to level up so they don't spawn too often because of the rage meter)

• Ocasionally reveal the Lich appearing on certain nodes inside or outside their territory (Like Acolytes) as if they were trying to sabotage the Tenno by taking more territory as you progress while ignoring them while doing other missions, you could prevent this by comfronting the Lich as soon as they show up.

This also applies to the fact that you're not supposed to be Hunting the Lich just yourself, you need other reasons to want to get rid of a Lich besides of the grind, the Lich has already a reason to hunt you, which is revenge, but it doesn't happen unless you're invading their territory which kinda screws up their logic on the lore, I want to fight my Liches without the need to invade their planets primarily, but I gotta pray the updates will make the encounters a lot more interesting and rewarding. Although, I think the Murmurs would require a rebalance or a rework if we're gonna get more alternatives, it doesn't need to be necessarily fast, just balanced and more open while also Rewarding, hopefully we can stop worrying about it after we get the "Kuva Lich Evolutions".

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Can we please make the Litch break your back again. Like, dieing was the only real S#&$ thing about the Litch fights, the other stuff, where there able to #*!% with you, was cool.

Also, whats the ETA on Litch in space?

Edited by TheJagji
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