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Kuva Lich 1.1: Feedback Megathread


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I'm trying to finish my first Lich ever (since October (28% Impact Kraken was not exciting)) and this murmur grind is ridiculously boring and unrewarding.

 

I hope you ever rework the Lich system to be more integrated, or at least something different from running side missions on every single planet that means you aren't doing anything else. This system doesn't have to feel so un-fun and grindy. So isolated.

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I have an idea that could theoretically make the system slightly more forgiving and provide an incentive to hunt a Lich even if it's not exactly what you want.

Add a third option to the Parazon Takedown thing, in between "Vanquish" and "Convert", call it "Harvest" or something. When you select this option, you create a Phylactery for the Lich (like the Kuva bubble on their person, but severed) and take it back to the Orbiter. In this case, you don't get a weapon/ephemera; you instead get a Kuva Phylactery which allows you to spend Kuva to roll a new, guaranteed Lich. Sort of like a Riven Mod, but for a Lich. You can spend increased Kuva to ensure a specific weapon but that in turn lowers the potential percent on it (so a Phylactery weapon only can range from 10% to 40% elemental bonus as opposed to as high as 60%), and it will inherit the elemental type of whatever frame you next kill a Larvaling with.

When you get a Larva down and it displays what weapon it has in addition to the finisher, you can choose to utilize your Kuva Phylactery to give your Lich those specific traits, spending the Phylactery. Thus, players will have more control over their rewards without taking out the risk/reward system of random bonuses, add another use for Kuva other than rolling Rivens, and give players the option to know more about what their Lich will have before creating it.
 

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Although the fixes and changes for the lich system were largely positive, the core gameplay loop of the system - farming murmur - is just as boring now, as it was on release of the system in November. The main issue for me is that farming murmur, while being a completely new system, gameplay-wise it's the exact same content (missions) that was in the game for years. The only new parts, really, are only present in orbiter / your inventory (parazon, lich summary screen, new weapons with additional elements). Pressing "X" (default execution key on PC) on every ~10th enemy you encounter in a mission and having a mostily bullet-sponge boss (lich), that's arguably the only interesting addition to the gameplay, appear with ~10% spawn rate (in my experience) is not enough to warrant interest in a "new" gameplay loop.

The nemesis system either needs to be more tightly integrated into regular gameplay, so that it's something you do along the way, similarly to syndicates or stalker / zanuka / g3 / etc. or have a more unique gameplay, like dedicated gamemode (possibly endless, since it's something that makes Warframe stand out vs Destiny 2 for example) or beefing up Lich fights to be on par with complexity (in terms of actual gameplay, not doing stuff in orbiter) of Eidolons / Exploiter Orb / etc.

As it is right now, the Kuva Lich system is the only system in Warframe that literary makes me sleepy, if I'm trying to do it after I'm done with IRL work during weekdays (i.e. when I'm tired).

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I'd like the Kuva liches to show up on exterminate missions only with the whole army being slightly buffed with a special cinematic. I'd like their crazy op weapons to either be tuned down a bit or create better regular weapon builds to balance things back out. I want the MR grind to be less of a maze for those first new weapons. I like the Lich idea as a whole and think it could have cool villainous storylines in the future, but as with all new things to Warframe I want it to be balanced and seamless throughout. Thanks.

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Update on my (to me) long suffering Kuva Lich Hell: I somehow managed to figure out the full sequence for mine after randomly joining a Lich hunting group in Public last night. I think it was half b/c they were farming murmurs and half because they inadvertently helped me with my Lich. Either way, I'm close to being dooooooooone with this.

Unfortunately, any attempts after that to find more public groups was a headache-inducer: I see there are Open groups on Public, but I don't know if they're open groups specifically for the main node, Arbitrations, Syndicates, or Lichs. Some kind of clarification would be really helpful in that regard, because once I did find someone (who joined my group mid-mission), they were extremely unhelpful and didn't even bother to revive me when I was _this_ close to beating my Lich that spawned and I had bled out. Ughhhh. 😕

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Having collected all the kuva weapons (killing exactly 16 Lichs) I can give a summary of my experience.

CONS:

  • First of all, DE forcing players to play missions such as interception, rescue, espionage, etc. etc. When playing with other players, I observed how exterminations, sabotages and survivals are preferred over other mission types. This is simply because of the high spawn rate of thralls compared to other missions, as well as to avoid the risk of failing the mission if the lich spawns.
  • The amount of grinding is excessive, not only for the murmurs, but the amount of missions necessary to obtain the desired weapon (2 and a half hours of cassini runs, to have the nukor), as well as for the ridiculous amount of missions to spawn the lich, after knowing the right requiem.

PRO:

  • Some truly epic moments: Reactor sabotage. After blowing it up I run towards the console sweeping the minions with the Orthos Prime in order to open the door to escape and BAM! The Lich appears in the console room. Epic fight between explosions and fires that ended with the vanquish of the Lich ... VERY EPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHAT WOULD I CHANGE:

  • Create a specific mission to farm murmur: A lore-friendly mission could be to flush out and eliminate thralls (10 per mission). This mission would be played in place of that of the node, but in the same tileset. This is a simple mission, easily implemented. Even something more complex could go, but have to guarantees 10 murmurs per mission ...
  • The lich can spawn anywhere, even in normal missions (if it is level 4 or 5) and with greater frequency, but it flees away after the first health bar is consumed, without giving the possibility to hit him with the parazon.
  • In return, Ordis will communicate that he has traced the position of the lich, opening a specific node in the star map. This mission will be a reactor sabotage on the galleon's tileset (Lich's ship). After sabotaging the reactor, the console to escape will be on the bridge, where we will meet the Lich between explosions and fires (as in the Tennocon video). The Lich must be defeated in order to proceed, and, if the requiem is wrong, the node will be hidden again, to be found at the next Lich spawn. It will be easy to make this a railjack mission in the future.
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I'd like to see an option for joining any active Lich missions.  

 

Right now it's become a very solo experience, unless you bring someone with you.  Just because of how many planets there are, and for random people to match up on those same missions is extremely rare at this point. 

I think an option to join an active mission would help solve this problem.

 

Side rant, I really wish the Lich designs were better.  I personally really like the Grineer designs.  And I was really hoping the Lichs were more in line with the elite soldier types, but on steroids.  There was still a masculine and feminine look to those elite soldiers, but the Lichs seem almost identical regardless of their sex, as if it were just a headswap, which is a shame.  

I think a slight redesign, and maybe some updated conversion mechanics would be nice.  For example, once you convert a Lich, maybe you have a way of interacting with them.  Change their armor, hear them speak about life with the Grineer, etc.

 

 

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We need a 100% Lich spawnrate after someone has 3/3 murmurs. It's frustrating know the right requiem combo and order but can't finish for 10 runs (happened today) because the lich doeasn't spawn.

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I refer to the second sentence of DE's claim. Quote:  "is allows players to decide upfront if they want to pursue that weapon by finishing the downed Kuva Larvling, or to ignore and attempt another Lich."

"Ignore and attempt another Lich".

It meant kill the larvling every mission till you get something else.

With the same warframe, round i go:

karak, karak, nukor, karak ,... x5, nukor, karak, karak, ...x8,kraken, karak, karak,x3, ogris.

I keep getting the same weapon "kuva karak" for almost all new attempts. This is called making a new attempt? You have no choice to pick the obvious repeating weapon spawned just to kill the lich so it doesnt spawn a second time. It already take hours just to get a different weapon and now you need to spend another few hours to kill the lich just so you wont see it on the larvling again. This cant be done in a few hours but a few days.

 

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Murmurs alone should give us the Runes we need!

Being forced to crack relics for an RNG chance for a rune utterly, utterly sucks and is completely disconnected from the "hunt the lich" fantasy.

I hate this whole system as it stands and I just want my lich to go away. Being someone who loathes relic's in general I have no interest in ever grinding for the runes I need. It is just too much un-fun rng grindfest.

Give me a delete button for my lich please. I dont even care about all the loot he has stolen, I just want him to go away.

While you are at it, get rid of relics and put the stuff they drop in actually interesting places!

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Please.....PLEASE add a way to remove a lich. I use a controller and accidentally killed a lich while trying to take it down. It's aggravating to be forced to have to go through grinding out murmurs just to get rid of the thing.

What I would suggest is if you don't finish the mission, you dont get the lich, even if you "killed" it.

Edited by FaithRose
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The worst part of the Lich hunting experience is when you get the kill code and the Lich won't spawn. Instead of repeating missions with basically no rewards and hoping the Lich comes, please take the recommendation of many people to make a special assassination node or a have a guaranteed spawn in any controlled territory.

 

I personally would enjoy if the Lich took control of the junction of the planet it was born on and we had the showdown there, or you get the Capital Ship node if you have Railjack.

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pleas pleas for the love of all that is sanity and the human ability to fat finger buttons can we have a similar screen to the assassination options of a litch for the larvlings as a confirmation that you want it to become a litch pleas ;-;

i wont lie i hate the pace of murmur farming its tedious boring and extremely slow for all the rng involved. 3 random mods of 8, 1 random weapon of 17, and a random damage bonus up to 60%, and no way to force an assassination attempt on you once you have gotten you mode to start figuring out the mod order. finding a litch's mods should be dramatically sped up from what thy are now murmurs needed should be reduced by at least 30-50% per mod revealed. especially if we are supposed to be farming more than one to rank up the weapons we have now. 

Edited by Surenakitten
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how they don't implement the option to get rid of your current kuva lich blows my mind... spending hours to change your lich from an accidental mercy kill is seriously demotivating to continue this lich process

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I've noticed a couple of times now, that when I "down" a Lich, next to the icon for its damage type, I can also see a timer.
It counts down very fast from 7 then down to nothing.
Is this RNG playing around? Have you accidentally left some code visible?

Edited by 000-Revenant-000
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Il y a 6 heures, Chaemyerelis a dit :

Kuva liches are a boring slog fest.

Oh LAWD yeah. This is especially when you have to wait, clicking in and out until a squad has maybe visitied your node, having only two or 3 nodes left for a LOOOOOONG time before they take over another planet. I mean, who wants to solo a spy or exterminate, with tons of level 80 enemies punching you upside the head?
Add in the grind factor of Mr. or Mrs. "I have to be the one to kill ALL the Thralls, even if you're right next to it and have bullet jumped halfway across the map to kill them".

Il y a 11 heures, shin.Z a dit :

how they don't implement the option to get rid of your current kuva lich blows my mind... spending hours to change your lich from an accidental mercy kill is seriously demotivating to continue this lich process

The only option I've found is to task manage, or ALT+F4 out of the game if this happens.
Hopefully they haven't patched this possibility out. If they ever do, it would be a "Private Detective" move.

Edited by 000-Revenant-000
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Le 28/03/2020 à 16:39, tfsdragon a dit :

I refer to the second sentence of DE's claim. Quote:  "is allows players to decide upfront if they want to pursue that weapon by finishing the downed Kuva Larvling, or to ignore and attempt another Lich."

"Ignore and attempt another Lich".

It meant kill the larvling every mission till you get something else.

With the same warframe, round i go:

karak, karak, nukor, karak ,... x5, nukor, karak, karak, ...x8,kraken, karak, karak,x3, ogris.

I keep getting the same weapon "kuva karak" for almost all new attempts. This is called making a new attempt? You have no choice to pick the obvious repeating weapon spawned just to kill the lich so it doesnt spawn a second time. It already take hours just to get a different weapon and now you need to spend another few hours to kill the lich just so you wont see it on the larvling again. This cant be done in a few hours but a few days.

 

I think you've just been unlucky mate. I've had really good fortune up until last night, whereupon it literally took me 4 hours to get a Bramma for Valance fusion.

Edited by 000-Revenant-000
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Just an idea that would make converted liches more fun and useful (especially if you like their personalities). 

It'd be cool if we could have select one or two of our liches to be on the railjack able to assist in repelling boarders

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The murmur farming is very boring, I have spent more than 2 hours to farm murmur for a single lich and its insanely boring. The missions we do are same as any other mission but with a chance of a lich spawning and thrall spawning. The missions arent anything special its just must-do missions if I want to get it done. I can take doing about 5 missions but I have to run a lot of missions which are grindy and not fun at all. I want to suggest a daily mission, a special mission which gives 40 murmur points, a high level mission starting with level 100 mobs at this point I dont mind the gamemode for it but I would liek if it is a special spy sortie-like mission where we steal important data about the lich.

Weapons and their mastery:

-I made a topic about this found here, to keep it short, instead of forma use Detonite Injectors for unlocking the extra levels, 1 Injector per level. The topic can be found here 

Murmur farming: 

-Instead of about 180 murmurs required, make it about 100-120 murmurs so the people who are farming the weapons dont feel like they are loosing sanity by running these missions over and over just for the thralls. After about 2 hours of doing these missions I start questioning if its even worth the time to do and Im more on the side of "Its not worth it." the missions are boring and repetative.

Also collecting all murmurs should say the order of the mods.

 

 

Edited by Lazarow
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Hi, this post is about the bad experience I’ve had with hunting for my specific lich larvae, for 5 days i have been larvae hunting for a radiation kuva ayanga     i have also been asking for one in trade chat and no reply. This experience has rather traumatized me and i can say for sure if i get the rad kuva ayanga today, i will most never larvae hunt a specific weapon ever again.
 

I have a suggestion as to how to make this less a bad experience, you could tie a group of weapons that a larvae would spawn with to specific nodes, make it about 4-6 weapons per node.  Honestly i think 6 is a bit much, because my experience is i get 2 of the same weapons repeatedly larvae hunting more than anything else. I hope a solution is found, because lich hunting is one of the things that’s been keeping me in game, thank you guys for your hard work. 

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