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Kuva Lich 1.1: Feedback Megathread

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I was playing warframe a moment ago and recently acquired my second kuva bramma. my first one had 30% toxin bonus(This is basically acceptable but not anywhere near my expectation for a weapon that took several play sessions to appear). My second kuva bramma had 29% toxin bonus. This Absolutley SUCKS since I assumed that valence fusion would be identical to the railjack iteration in which Quote(Warframe Wiki) "Fusing gear that is the same tier level (e.g. MKIII with MKIII) will yield an increase of stats by 10%". However the truth is that Quote(Warframe Wiki) "the result will always be according to the percentage of ("the higher percentage") and multiplied by 1.1" 

This means that my kuva Bramma will go from 30% to 33% with valence fusion. WHAT EVEN IS THAT. How can it be that I am already being mistreated by RNG to receive 2 BAD stat bonuses only for me to learn that combining the two in no way rewards my second attempt at acquiring this weapon. WHAT EVEN IS THAT.

On 2020-06-08 at 3:25 AM, Enialyx said:

Valence fusion immediately maxes a Kuva lich weapon on the first go

This Is exactly why I am in favor of maxing valence fusion on the first go. However if DE doesn't want to reduce the intense grind of kuva liches, I would prefer that valence fusion would at least grant an unconditional 10% increase to the elemental bonus. It is extremely discouraging to vanquish a kuva lich and receive a bad bonus, only to undertake another kuva lich with the same weapon; receive another bad bonus and finally learn that fusing the two together still results in a bad elemental bonus.


DE, Improve this so that players can enjoy repeat farming weapons, instead of allowing us to be continuously punished by bad RNG

Please Buff Valence Fusion!!


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My biggest problem with Kuva Lichs currently is the, to put it bluntly, uselessness/unreliability of converted Kuva Lichs.

I'm in the unfortunate scenario where I wasn't told that kuva lichs can't be retraded until after I converted the kuva lich I was traded and tried to trade it, being told you cannot. While obviously I feel there should be something in game that tells you this very important detail before you lose the chance to acquire a weapon, I digress as my main point is about the converted lich I now have.

Why? Why should I convert a lich? It spawns unreliably, even with the buffs does little to enhance the mission, and is overall just a reminder (for me) that I missed out on getting a kuva bramma 55% radiation because I wasn't told I couldn't retrade in game. I've heard numerous things: make them companions, give them spawners like specters, etc etc. Personally I would prefer if I could have the option to remove him as I despise seeing him because my lich reminds me of this unfortunate scenario, but I can't even do that. We convert these lichs yet seemingly have no control over them, and that is the absolute biggest problem.

In short: Converted Kuva Lichs are a scam. And until they become something useful, will always be a scam. Which is a shame, I'd like the decision between me wielding that kuva bramma and him be something special. But it isn't. Not currently anyway.

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I have a few recommendations for lichs particularly the Lady Lich's. PLEASE give us more variety, the guy lich's are nice and there's plenty there, i especially like the guy who "zoinks" stuff but the lady lichs need more variety and this will sound like a really stupid one to do but you CAN do a lady lich where she is completey silent, except for when you kill her maybe where her texts to you are just dots and it would work. Also, Harley Quinn exists, how is there not a Kuva Lich inspired by such a great lady icon? And i am NOT talking about the stupid "birds of prey" nonsense i'm speaking of the OG comics especially with her and Ivy.


There's LITERALLY like 5 guys and 2 ladiies. Please add.

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I have completed around 10 lich kills, lvl 22. I find that some are virtually impossible to complete without lots of luck. For example, mobile defense. I run around for a while trying to get a lich to spawn, before i defend a terminal, but nothing. The second I plug into a terminal, a lich spawns and drains over 30-50s drains the terminal killing it and finishing the mission as a fail.  I am running Gara and use her glass wall to protect the terminal but nothing stops the lich.  The lich doesn't come close to killing me, but I cannot defend the terminal from the lich's AOE


So I plan around mobile defense and defense, rescue etc, and just cheese missions, rather than try and fight a guaranteed loss. If that is what you want then congrats, I will cheese away and finish anyway playing the missions where I can actually have a useful fight. I do not expect to win every time, just won't fight missions I cannot win.


Maybe have a think about whether that is what you want.  Not complaining about the grind, just the pointless grind and the cheese alternative.




Edited by Mad_dad
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Kuva Liches are a kick in the #*!%ing balls.

I spent almost an hour running the same mission over and over again to tryh and get myself a Kuva Karak Lich. Fine, whatever, it is what it is. Cycling through attempt after attempt with weapons I don't want right now, I finally get a Lich. Yay, took it long enough to spawn.

I get back to my orbiter, and this bastard has the audacity to spawn a 25% bonus, and no ephemera. For context, I had a Lich going the day the system dropped, and between then and now, I've gone through about 20 or so Liches, maybe more. NONE OF THOSE HAVE HAD EPHEMERA. 

it's so unfair to make me waste so much time looking for the particular weapon I want, only to then saddle me with a piece of S#&$ that isn't going to be worth the time and requiem mods I waste getting him to go away! I was actually excited to try and get my Karak to 60%, but this guy being generated for me has absoutely killed my enthusiasm and reminded me why this system is so poor anyways. 

I'd say "I should have just bought the Lich I wanted with plat" but you'd like that, wouldn't you?

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To back up the problem with all the RNG with stats.

Here's what killing 42 liches looks like when it comes to ephemera's and elemental stats on weapons:


Rounded to a whole number this would mean that 69% of the weapons I initially got were below 35%.

To make it more clear as to what I mean by this: the median elemental bonus you can get is 42.5%. In my case that would mean that 81% is below half of the possibilities.

Of course this is just a data sample of a sample but still... This doesn't seem very 'random'. There are countless ways to bump this up, even a little!

I also needed 42 liches to get all the ephemera's according to the sheet, but I started with liches the moment it came out and by then I converted/killed around 15 of them without getting one. Which means that I had a chance of 1/27 or 4%.

Disclaimer: I'm not a mathematician so it's possible I'm drawing the wrong conclusions here. If so contact me and maybe we can correct it. The same thing goes for additional calculations that can be made using this data.



RNG works for a big part of the game. But when it comes to an enormous grind there should be a little more consistency when it comes to the RNG related parts.

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I'm seeing a lot of arguments, even on this page, that I wholeheartedly agree with.

One of your big ideas at the moment DE, is that you are trying to help players out so that they do not suffer from burnout and do not "hate-play" the game. 


Lichs are the literal personification of burnout and they become worse the more of them that you convert/kill.

When you are down to your last 2 or 3 Kuva weapons to obtain, you can easily spend 2+ hours simply running Cassini, or some other such node, just for the chance to get a Larvling to spawn with the weapon you actually want. To add to the sheer frustration of this, you get back to your orbiter, only to find out that it is a generic-looking Lich with a very crappy RNG bonus of say 25% - 28% of whatever element you decided to go for and it doesn't have an ephemera either.


You can then spend 3+ hours grinding out the god-awful murmur mechanic, with your Lich maybe spawning 2-5 times in that period and RNG slaps you in the face again by letting you know that the first requiem mod required to take out your Lich is locked behind the grindiest 3rd murmur/requiem. So, you cannot even start to guess the order of the requiem mods until you have ground-out all the murmurs (unless you get really lucky and somehow guess the first mod).

By this time, the Lich is already Rank 5 and then you have to run missions over and over, while ignoring the Thralls until the Lich decides to show up so you can kill it. This could be 1 mission, or it could be 10 missions, depending on its anger metre, which is also hilariously useless; I have had Lichs show up in every single mission I've run, even though they are "indifferent" and yet I've also had to run 10 missions in a row with my Lich being "fuming" before they decided to show up.


You then finally end up with your Kuva weapon and guess what, you then have to level it to 30 and then Forma it 5 times! It's just adding grind on top of one of the most tedious grinds in the game!


After a good 5 or so hours of gameplay (let's say), you have your Kuva weapon at rank 40 and you start the whole process again for however many Kuva weapons you are missing.


I haven't even mentioned getting a hold of the silly requiem mods either! Killing thralls gives an RNG chance of dropping a requiem relic rank 1-4 that you then treat like a prime relic, that you have to go and crack open for a chance at a requiem mod that will only last for 3 Lichs. 

Seriously!? How tediously grindy can you make this system??


What I personally think needs to be done here is that the requiem relics mechanic needs to be cut entirely from the game, with the thralls dropping the mods, or every time you stab the Lich, it gives you a requiem mod. After that, the requiem mods should never run out, or I have seen people recommend for them to be rechargeable with Kuva. 

To finish off, the amount of murmurs for the 3rd requiem mod needs to be cut down to at least the same amount as the 2nd mod as currently, the third mod (which could be the first required) takes longer to grind out than the first 2 combined, even if you are stabbing your Lich every other mission.

Furthermore, if someone else in your party correctly guesses a requiem mod (or all 3), murmurs should be handed out to all other players in the squad, just like it currently is if they fail a stab.

Lastly, with the amount of Forma required to get all Kuva weapons to max rank, there needs to be a way of getting Forma more easily, or from the Lich system itself, because not even Veterans are sat on 100s of Forma. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hmm, where to start. 

1. Why do mods expire?

2. The amount of murmur required is just ridiculous, would be fine if you know, we didn't need to do so much just to max element a weapon

3. Can't we have frames that dictate the weapon just as we have frames dictate the element type. Why not take it a step further and have which weapon we use to down the larvling influence the weapon. E.g killing with a secondary will spawn a secondary.

4. Why does anger refresh? I mean it's amazing that they become indifferent after we stab em in the gut

5. Time to pay the idiot tax


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A ways down the road and this system has still not grown on me. I have 5 more weapons to grind out, and have done many duplicates. Several things stand out.

1. The weapon preview is excellent. I just wish it had an actual confirmation screen to spawn a lich, or didn't spawn if you cancel out of the mission after accidentally hitting the parazon prompt. After days of lich hunting players are conditioned to reflexively parazon asap. That has left me with a multi-hour cleanup for a one button press mistake more than once. 

2.Overleveling is boring and pointless. I don't care about the forma investment cost, but it is overkill to have that many forma forced into a weapon with 10 extra capacity. Also using mostly very bland weapons long enough to max them 6 times each feels really forced and unappealing. Only a couple kuva weapons are actually fun to any given player. We don't want to use them that long.

3. Murmur farming is too grindy. The progress for the first reveal feels right. Increasing it on the second and especially the third feels like an artificial inflation just for the sake of adding grind. 

4. The lich loop is entirely seperate from the rest of the game. You normally think of two objectives you want to accomplish, and pick a mission that accomplishes both. With liches you only farm the lich, it precludes any other goals. You aren't farming resources or leveling equipment while hunting liches. Your planet and mission types are limited, chosen for you, and you're bringing good equipment for the battle.

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