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The problems that still remains with larvalings and liches


StevenMagnet
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The system in place to see what weapon a larvaling will have when they turn into a lich is good, and I appreciate it, but there is still a huge problem that I've encountered personally.

There is no confirmation before executing a larvaling.

Warframe is a very visually noisy game. It'd be easy to imagine a situation where you think its a finisher, or perhaps an item, and accidentally execute a larvaling. I executed one because I thought it was a finisher, and now I'm stuck with them for a few days at least before I can get back into having fun with liches.

I have a few solutions to this. One, have an in between. After stabbing the larvaling, but not killing them, you can confirm you want to create a lich. If not, you just pull your parazon out of them without killing them.

Two, lich bribes. Basically, pay your lich 100,000 credits to **** off, or something preferably just difficult to get, and not RNG based like rare resources. I don't think it should get rid of them completely, just make them more of an event character, like the stalker or syndicate attacks. Trying to execute them during these attacks will return them as an active lich instead of an inactive one, and they will begin doing the lich thing again with the nodes and what have you.

Three, allow multiple active liches. If you can pay liches to go away, then having a few of them shouldn't be too much of a problem. It could even present interesting mechanics like lich clashes.

 

I dunno how well these suggestions might age as people get used to liches as they are now. I probably won't be doing much since I'm stuck with one I didn't want.

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You get clearly notified with a larva spawns and they are even marked on your map. I don't know how one could still manage to ''accidentally'' execute one unless you pay literally zero attention what is happening in the game and turn your brain off instead.

I don't think that the game should do literally everything for you, especially when avoiding the spawns is extremely easy.

Edited by Wyrmius_Prime
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Yes, they are marked on your map. Which doesn't mean much when theres a bunch of enemies clumped together and you are looking for liches, rather than avoiding them.

As for the brain thing, yes, my brain was off. I was doing the same capture mission over and over again to see the new kuva lich weapons, and if I could get the one I wanted. I don't think adding a 'are you sure you want to do this?' dialog box where you have to click yes would be having the game do everything for you.

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My preferred solution would be to have a specific solo mission to create liches. Right now you just end up running cassini over and over again anyway, which isn't exactly an exciting way to get a new lich. I also feels like it was a good idea to let players get rid of a lich 1/week. I have no idea, why this wasn't implemented.

That being said, I have no idea how someone accidentally kills a larvling.

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It doesn't force you to wait for that though. You can execute them while they're in the staggered animation before they kneel.

 

I'm not saying I'm not stupid. Just like I wouldn't say someone who accidentally sold their frame isn't stupid. What I am saying is, I don't think adding a check would do any harm.

Edited by StevenMagnet
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A voiceline, distinct sound effect and visual icon tells you that one has spawned. Said icon also appears directly above the larvlings head, and even then, you need to press a separate button to standard melee attack or either fire buttons to actually kill the larvling, whilst standing next to it. That's a pretty clear indicator.

13 minutes ago, gluih said:

I also feels like it was a good idea to let players get rid of a lich 1/week. I have no idea, why this wasn't implemented.

AFAIK, that's on the books, they just haven't implemented it to help ensure that the most feedback for the changes are had, instead of people just yeeting any lich they don't like right off the bat.

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Just now, StevenMagnet said:

Isn't the icon that appears above the larvalings head before the weapon is shown the same one thats shown above normal enemies that can be parazon executed?

No other enemies have a weapon above their head. I haven't seen one yet, because I still have an old lich, so I can just go by the screenshots we have seen. And still, even before it was pretty obvious, when you had a larvling in front of you.

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7 minutes ago, gluih said:

No other enemies have a weapon above their head. I haven't seen one yet, because I still have an old lich, so I can just go by the screenshots we have seen. And still, even before it was pretty obvious, when you had a larvling in front of you.

I was also surrounded by enemies and getting my ass kicked. I was more than happy to take a finisher or two to get out of it.

In hindsight, yeah, I should have realised the much was right there in front of me, but that doesn't really do anything for me now. I almost sold my primed point blank because after trying to rank it up, forgetting to deselect it, I went to go sell mods. If it wasn't for that manifest and confirmation, I would've been screwed, and I'm pretty thankful for it. I can say from experience at least one idiot plays this game. I just wish one stupid mistake didn't kill my momentum for the week.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by StevenMagnet
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22 minutes ago, StevenMagnet said:

It doesn't force you to wait for that though. You can execute them while they're in the staggered animation before they kneel.

Delaying the finisher window to the point they're kneeling is probably something that could help, especially if it matches up with the weapon showcase (which itself is a good "this is a larvaling" indicator). I don't see a lot wrong with that.

Otherwise, more checks or options etc. start to get too intrusive. Only so many pauses can be put in the pipeline before it becomes absurd.

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I agree with you there. Going from gameplay to navigating a menu with a cursor is jarring and annoying. When I use ciphers it's cause I wanna go fast, not wave my mouse around to find my cursor. The delay would be nice, maybe having to hold the interaction button to execute instead of a menu?

Edited by StevenMagnet
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3 minutes ago, StevenMagnet said:

I agree with you there. Going from gameplay to navigating a menu with a cursor is jarring and annoying. When I use ciphers it's cause I wanna go fast, not wave my mouse around to find my cursor. The delay would be nice, maybe having to hold the interaction button to execute instead of a menu?

I think a "hold to execute" is a good idea too, probably better than any delay, as it's theoretically possible for a Larvaling to go down near a hackable console. Even with a down-to-execute delay, that's going to create an input headache.

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Far less of a headache compared to killing a lich who has nothing you want, when all you want us something else only liches have. A one second hold to execute wouldn't be much in the grand scheme of killing a lich, but it would be enough time for people to cancel so they can reconsider.

Edited by StevenMagnet
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OK here's the deal, so basically you want a very specific weapon from a lich, so you start cycling larvlings, I swear to GOD almighty I did like 30 missions and by the end, my brain was so dead from this extremely boring game that I accidentally pressed a button, and now I have to  grind this EXTREMELY BORING GAME  for 3 WHOLE HOURS to get rid of this GOD DAMN LICH MAN. 3 hours of this painful game man. I can't take it. This is such a bad decision from DE. Just horrible man. Why have people reset a larvling mission 50 times to get the weapon they want. skip the hassle and let me pick the damn weapon man!!! jesus! "yeah actually we're gonna make it so you have a preview of the weapon so it's not so dreadful, now you just have to play the same ext for 50 tries to get the weapon you want" man what a great design decision. NICE DE THANK YOU

Edited by Ksilisab
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1 hour ago, StevenMagnet said:

It'd be easy to imagine a situation where you think its a finisher, or perhaps an item, and accidentally execute a larvaling. I executed one because I thought it was a finisher, and now I'm stuck with them for a few days at least before I can get back into having fun with liches.

Can confirm, this is how I got my first and only lich. It took 11 days to get rid of it and I had help. At one point I even accidentally hit it while trying to revive a team mate.

 I am being much much more careful about what I activate now. It has put an enormous damper on finishers for me, which I actually thought are pretty cool.

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24 minutes ago, Ksilisab said:

OK here's the deal, so basically you want a very specific weapon from a lich, so you start cycling larvlings, I swear to GOD almighty I did like 30 missions and by the end, my brain was so dead from this extremely boring game that I accidentally pressed a button, and now I have to  grind this EXTREMELY BORING GAME  for 3 WHOLE HOURS to get rid of this GOD DAMN LICH MAN. 3 hours of this painful game man. I can't take it. This is such a bad decision from DE. Just horrible man. Why have people reset a larvling mission 50 times to get the weapon they want. skip the hassle and let me pick the damn weapon man!!! jesus! "yeah actually we're gonna make it so you have a preview of the weapon so it's not so dreadful, now you just have to play the same ext for 50 tries to get the weapon you want" man what a great design decision. NICE DE THANK YOU

I don't mind having to try to get the lich I want for the weapon I want, but I don't have a lot of free time right now. 3 hours would probably take place over the course of a week and a bit for me. I feel your pain.

Warframe is a game I love to play just to have mindless fun, or put my mind towards something for an hour. But this... I gotta spend that long just do I can go back to having fun. I just wanted the war pick. I love war picks.

Edited by StevenMagnet
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1 hour ago, StevenMagnet said:

Two, lich bribes. Basically, pay your lich 100,000 credits to **** off, or something preferably just difficult to get, and not RNG based like rare resources. I don't think it should get rid of them completely

I think you should be able to kill them outright. Maybe buy a finisher item, like a poison, or a bomb you drill into the back of their skulls and then it ticks over until their heads pop.

But in fairness, if you kill them outright like that, you don't find out where they hid your stolen loot and you can't salvage their weapon (maybe it's bio-rigged somehow).

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14 minutes ago, sir_deadlock said:

But in fairness, if you kill them outright like that, you don't find out where they hid your stolen loot

That is clever!
Still giving the weapon would be too important.. The people most likely to buy that would want it to farm the weapons.. but any ephemera or armor aesthetic could be lost.

There's also really no downside there considering how little they steal. BUT! It fits perfectly with:

 

Edited by kapn655321
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28 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

There's also really no downside there considering how little they steal. BUT! It fits perfectly with:

The intention is effectively to cancel a lich you don't want. It would help farmers in exactly that way. And it would help people who made a mistake in also that exact way.

The compromise is that, if you really don't want it, okay, but we're not going to act like it never happened. It stole some of your stuff. If you're not going to go through the proper channels to deal with this and it has to be quick and dirty, it means cutting your losses.

 I suppose if instant kill items were a thing, there could be different kinds. Logically the way to do it would be to have wild card (always correct) runes to stick in the parazon that have negative effects. Using one might mean you don't get loot back. Using two might mean you don't get extra drops that mission. Using all three might mean that the only thing you get from killing the lich, is a dead lich. If that's the case, for the love of fun, please don't make them RNG drops! When somebody's trying to turn off something they don't want, giving them a hassle isn't usually a way to prevent a rage quit.

As for that other person's idea, it kind of sounds like something I heard another person wanted. I was talking to somebody who said they wanted a lich to really take over an area. Changing the uniforms and stats of the enemies, the flags on the poles. Really making a region belong to that lich as it rises to power.

Who knows, maybe the influence of a lich could spread the same way Nidus' helminth nodule/space herpes spreads from one user to another. Then we'd effectively have RNG lich lords spreading like a disease.

Edited by sir_deadlock
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1 hour ago, StevenMagnet said:

I don't mind having to try to get the lich I want for the weapon I want, but I don't have a lot of free time right now. 3 hours would probably take place over the course of a week and a bit for me. I feel your pain.

And this is honestly that despite the fact it only takes as short as 2~4 minutes for me to capture a target and then have the thrall pop up due to the new system, It still has the issue of being a 1 in 16 chance, meaning it went from a 7.69% chance to 6.25% chance to get a specific kuva lich weapon.

Even if they shorten the time to hunt for a specific weapon by finally getting rid of the fking grind one has to go thru before they can try again for the reroll, burn out is still going to exist on this system because it never should of had new weapons tied to it.

I would of honestly preferred we shank liches to get special tokens or `kuva hearts` which we could of combined with vanilla versions of the weapons to make the ACTUAL. DANG. KUVA. LICH. WEAPONS. Since it would make more sense since the current system still does not have the larva use `vanilla weapons` which could of got powered up by whatever kuva that was in them splashing on the weapon. Which would of been a nice little backstory since the lich got killed by us with that weapon, so they wanna use THAT weapon to kill us.

Quote

Warframe is a game I love to play just to have mindless fun, or put my mind towards something for an hour. But this... I gotta spend that long just do I can go back to having fun. I just wanted the war pick. I love war picks.

Shame that even after i go thru the 6.25% loop 3 times to get the 3 new weapons, i still will need to do it again to power up the kuva weapons i like, The Quartakk & the Doubba Stubba. Which if the other guns are also good, i might end up powering up. Which i had fun with the lenz but the explosion delay kind of ruined it a tad(Aka why i use Opticor Vandal mostly these days), so the grineer version of the lenz might become a new favorite of mine, since it makes the most sense with the exilus mod system since you will want cautious shot on it to not kill yourself.

Edited by Avienas
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2 hours ago, StevenMagnet said:

I agree with you there. Going from gameplay to navigating a menu with a cursor is jarring and annoying. When I use ciphers it's cause I wanna go fast, not wave my mouse around to find my cursor. The delay would be nice, maybe having to hold the interaction button to execute instead of a menu?

The answer is: Y

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Do you want DE to put a giant yellow textbox with an arrow pointing down to the head of a larvaling saying "THIS IS A KUVA LARVALING" or what? It's absolutely clear now that you're killing a special enemy and you DO have a confirmation whether or not you want to do it unless you spam "x" for no apparent reason everywhere.

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