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Enemies level selector on endless missions


Kashtan
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I'd like to be able to not spend hours in an endless mission to finally face sortie-level opponents. Just add a "level selector" to any endless node you completed and let us simply start off the game with whatever level we can handle. Since I know DE doesn't really like to just hand out options to people we can also make it so you have to actually "reach" the level of enemies that you want to set for example:

- You set your enemies on level 40

- You beat them up to the point they reach level 60

- Now you can end the mission and restart right from level 60

There's no need to even alter loot pools just give normal people a reason to minmax your gear.

Edit: Obviously you shouldn't be able to set the level of enemies lower than the planet's base levels. But there's no reason to not let people have a oneshot fest with level 1000s if they so desire.

Edited by adek183
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Oh sheet, dont ask for stuff like this or the army of braindead casuals will start vomiting paragraphs about game being to hard or about Armor scaling being literally cheating on us players (thats is my favorite btw). Or how this game is difficult cause you have to mod for said armor scaling or god forbid you have to actually THINK about anything.

But i 110% agree some slider where you could just adjust enemy lvl from "the go" would be awesome. I wouldnt even care about scaling rewards or anything i just want SOME challenge in babyframe from start to end of mission, where you actually need to mod/think about stuff and synergies between frames and where you have to use atleast SOME TEAMPLAY, TACTICS AND INTERACTIONS BETWEEN FRAMES.

Yeah we can just dream on brother!  😺

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A couple of points here. First of all, I'd like a "level selector" for ALL mission types, not just endless ones. Ideally, I'd like a universal level selector so all planets give me missions of the same level. Obviously, this wouldn't go below each node's minimum level. While we're at it, let me set a minimum team size, as well. Say I set my team size to 2. Then enemies would spawn for a team size of 2 even if I'm solo, but would obviously still spawn for 3 or 4 people if I team up.

Secondly, there is... Kind of a workaround right now. Lich mission levels are set by the level of the Lich and not by the level of the node. Getting a Lich allows you to play fairly high-level content all of the time.

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On 2020-02-05 at 3:23 PM, Steel_Rook said:

A couple of points here. First of all, I'd like a "level selector" for ALL mission types, not just endless ones. Ideally, I'd like a universal level selector so all planets give me missions of the same level. Obviously, this wouldn't go below each node's minimum level. While we're at it, let me set a minimum team size, as well. Say I set my team size to 2. Then enemies would spawn for a team size of 2 even if I'm solo, but would obviously still spawn for 3 or 4 people if I team up.

Secondly, there is... Kind of a workaround right now. Lich mission levels are set by the level of the Lich and not by the level of the node. Getting a Lich allows you to play fairly high-level content all of the time.

Yeah I agree with the universal level selector but I mainly suggested only for endless with no scaling to make it as easy to implement as possible. As for the team size I didn't even think about it so you have a good point but I'm afraid that would involve some weird programming hacks where the game would "pretend" that there's another player so by using this we may lose the pause feature in solo play.

As for the second point yes I'm aware about the Lich forcing higher levels but I really don't like the current Lich system even if it's better than on release it's still a massive grindfest for little to no reward. Anyway to even get the higher levels you need to level up the Lich first and I'm not gonna lie I don't like the random invasions either.

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1 hour ago, adek183 said:

Yeah I agree with the universal level selector but I mainly suggested only for endless with no scaling to make it as easy to implement as possible. As for the team size I didn't even think about it so you have a good point but I'm afraid that would involve some weird programming hacks where the game would "pretend" that there's another player so by using this we may lose the pause feature in solo play.

I don't think it's as technically challenging as that, though. The reason I'm suggesting this is that's more or less what City of Heroes did over its lifespan. The first time difficulty settings showed up, players were given five discrete choices. Later with the introduction of the mission designer, this was expanded to four separate options - the mission level, the apparent team size, whether Boss class enemies would be scaled down to Lieutenant class enemies and whether Archvillain class enemies would be scaled down to Elite Bosses (and, possibly as a bug, whether Elite Bosses would scale down to bosses, too). Level went from -1 the +5, team size went from x1 to x8 (maximum team size) and the Boss and AV options were binary. Players would format difficulty as, for instance, +0x2 (the one I tended to play) or +8x5 (the maximum available).

I'm not sure what kind of hackery this required, but City of Heroes had a LEGENDARILY terrible codebase to the point where none of the paid developers wanted to so much as touch the UI. Warframe's been around for 7 years and is, in fact, approaching City of Heroes in terms of overall age. I feel a feature like this ought to be viable by this point. Level-scaling of missions already has plenty of precedent - Nightmare/Syndicate/Kuva/Alert/Sortie/Lich/Quest missions all scale with seemingly no upper limit and Endless missions scale within their own runtime. Apparent team sizes don't have as much precedent, though they CAN change at runtime. Inviting players to a mission or having them quit will alter spawn sizes. Unless DE screwed up their infrastructure REALLY badly, I don't see how an override logical check can be insurmountable.

 

1 hour ago, adek183 said:

As for the second point yes I'm aware about the Lich forcing higher levels but I really don't like the current Lich system even if it's better than on release it's still a massive grindfest for little to no reward. Anyway to even get the higher levels you need to level up the Lich first and I'm not gonna lie I don't like the random invasions either.

That's fair enough. I don't believe Liches are a solution and they have issues of their own. I just meant that they're a reliable way to spawn high-level Grineer if you're after that. They're something I've used to run missions on Jupiter, Earth, Mars, Ceres and so on without feeling like I'm curb-stomping newbie content with overpowered end-game gear. If you have issues with the system itself, then that's not going to help you.

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Yet another suggestion which sounds nice on paper, but is unfeasible with how the game's code works.

This would be a very complicated thing to explain to people who're not of the job, but I'll try and keep it as simple as possible: you need to imagine an algorithm as a bridge. Imagine the bridge being near the breaking point due to a lot of heavy trucks being parked on top of it: that's the algorithm taking a lot of resources to work, because it's handling a lot of things at the same time (spawn rates, spawn levels and drop tables are tied to one another, and the control algorithm that keeps these elements working together is made ad hoc for each map). Now, if you were to suddenly reduce the bridge's rigidity (is that the right word?) by adding a "drawbridge" mechanism which can be activated manually, you'd make it far more likely to snap. Basically, adding externally controlled functions to a system which is already handling a lot of things makes it less stable. 

In light of this, introducing a system like the one proposed here is not possible. It can be made possible by drastically reworking the spawn rates/spawn levels/drop tables interaction, but that would take a significant amount of work. I highly doubt DE would be interested in attempting something like this.

Edited by TearsOfTomorrow
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13 hours ago, TearsOfTomorrow said:

Yet another suggestion which sounds nice on paper, but is unfeasible with how the game's code works.

This would be a very complicated thing to explain to people who're not of the job, but I'll try and keep it as simple as possible: you need to imagine an algorithm as a bridge. Imagine the bridge being near the breaking point due to a lot of heavy trucks being parked on top of it: that's the algorithm taking a lot of resources to work, because it's handling a lot of things at the same time (spawn rates, spawn levels and drop tables are tied to one another, and the control algorithm that keeps these elements working together is made ad hoc for each map). Now, if you were to suddenly reduce the bridge's rigidity (is that the right word?) by adding a "drawbridge" mechanism which can be activated manually, you'd make it far more likely to snap. Basically, adding externally controlled functions to a system which is already handling a lot of things makes it less stable. 

In light of this, introducing a system like the one proposed here is not possible. It can be made possible by drastically reworking the spawn rates/spawn levels/drop tables interaction, but that would take a significant amount of work. I highly doubt DE would be interested in attempting something like this.

Explain to me how manually setting starting enemy level which only influences unit's health, armor, shields(if any), and damage would make the code responsible for spawning enemies or loot tables more difficult to manage. Your argument makes no sense on technical and logical level alike. I'm pretty sure programmers at DE at least know how to make it possible to set a single variable manually once and then going by the usual levels ramp up over time and I can't imagine that code block responsible for storing 4 variables as some sphagetti monster.

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3 hours ago, adek183 said:

would make the code responsible for spawning enemies or loot tables more difficult to manage

This is not what I said at all. And I'm frankly tired of discussing with people who are not of the job and, instead of trying to listen to what is being explained to them, immediately get defensive and start talking about things they don't understand. So read my post again and learn something. Or don't, and keep sitting on your armchair and demanding that busy professionals give you something, without having any idea of what it would take for them to make it possible.

I really don't care either way. 

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