Trying to make any single sense out of revenant lore

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

My impression of the Lore surrounding the Plains of Eidolon, including Revenant is:

A giant sentient attacked the Unum tower, but Gara sacrificed herself to blow it up, pacific-rim style.

The pieces of that sentient became Eidolons - like automated weapon systems. They continued wandering around the plains long after the sentient died.

A Warframe called "The Warden" had taken over the watch of the plains, in Gara's stead. (it clearly had a weapon capable of destroying sentient energy tentacles... it was likely the Tatsu, his signature weapon.) Similar stories are told, like in the Highlander with the dark quickenings, those who would destroy and seal away evil in themselves, (but eventually could be corrupted by it.)

It got careless and was mesmerized by the tentacle one night, and got pulled into the sentient's unlight (like their tenebrous ephemera) where it was corrupted by that energy and became "blighted"... a theme of many vampire/werewolf hunters who become the thing they were hunting. He now uses that "curse" that caught him, as he himself battles... now enthralling enemies, as he himself was enthralled by the Eidolon's tendril energy.

The actual Warden never returned from being enthralled. We defeat it as a puppet of the Eidolons during the quest and convert it into blueprints to make use of as we will.

We really don't know what the Warden's powers were before he was changed, but maybe he could already transform into a mist (plenty of frames showed they had similar powers, like Wukong and Hydroid) and the curse just gave him extra perks for doing that. The addition of Dance Macabre is undisputibly an eidolon/sentient ability. And even the Mesmer Skin being a sort of invincibility for a number of hits mirrors eidolons having shields that only void energy can take down (since no enemies wield void energy, something else had to be devised to make use of it.) It holds true to its mesmerizing theme in that enemies that strike mesmer skin become mesmerized. The thralls exploding into pillars of fire that damage enemies is clearly from the Gantulyst's fire stomp attack.

It's probably not the BEST use of an eidolon frame, because it's a single case of a dying/undead eidolon trying to reform itself, but all the powers are there in the story well enough for me. Until Garuda, it was probably the closest we were going to see of a vampire frame that fit the lore enough for them to add. (I've never liked Garuda, as she feels very disconnected from the story, not really matching Fortuna's themes at all... and being capable of draining blood from robotics was a stretch for me.) ... not that I wanted a vampire frame... but others did.

 

 

 

On the Valkyr side-topic, there's very little to go on there, but I'd be willing to say she was already a berserker, and Alad V was treating her like an animal, dissecting, flaying, caging. I think the Prime's version with chains attached was a mis-creation, as that only really happened after being captured by Alad, and shouldn't be present on an ancient Prime (unless she was just THAT wild, even as a prime, and the Orokin kept her chained as well... ya know.)  I do think the version of a warframe from which we take the blueprints doesn't have to be an "original" version necessarily, and in the case of Valkyr, we created blueprints from "the" Valkyr that Alad tortured.

 

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

13 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

On the Valkyr side-topic, there's very little to go on there, but I'd be willing to say she was already a berserker, and Alad V was treating her like an animal, dissecting, flaying, caging. I think the Prime's version with chains attached was a mis-creation, as that only really happened after being captured by Alad, and shouldn't be present on an ancient Prime (unless she was just THAT wild, even as a prime, and the Orokin kept her chained as well... ya know.)  I do think the version of a warframe from which we take the blueprints doesn't have to be an "original" version necessarily, and in the case of Valkyr, we created blueprints from "the" Valkyr that Alad tortured.

Valkyr Gersemi Deluxe was the original yet the Prime looks nothing like it, yet the Prime was supposed to be the original has bonds. That said Gersemi was niether tortured or experimented on, she has no bonds. Quote: "Before Alad V, before the experiments, there was the Gersemi Valkyr" . In part her lore(DE's lore) is a convoluted complete mess, nothing makes sense, nothing. Everything else that attempts to explain is just headcanon or conjecture. 

Edited February 8, 2020 by (XB1)MandlorPrime

[TearsOfTomorrow]

4 hours ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

Depending on the Earth invasion's placement in the timeline, the Eidolons could be the remnants of her former body.

That's what I'm trying to tell you: your idea doesn't work with the timeline.

Natah and Erra were born before the sentients became sterile. The giant sentient wanted to destroy Cetus in order to acquire kuva, which he believed could cure him of his sterility: meaning, by the time the events in Cetus happened Natah and Erra had already been born. The trip back to Earth through the Void, which made the giant sentient sterile, did the same to all other sentients, including Natah herself, which was her main motivation for disobeying her father and adopting the Tenno (she really wanted children of her own).

So the only way your idea can work is for Natah to BE the giant sentient... But even that doesn't work: we saw Natah's original form, and it's not that big. On top of that, Gara's lore explicitly states that she (the person that was made into the warframe? The operator? It's never clarified) was in love with the Unum, and so she chose to stay in Cetus and defend her against the attack. And in doing so she disobeyed the evacuation order ISSUED BY THE LOTUS. Yep. That's what the story actually says: disobeyed an order issued by the Lotus.

This directly implies that, by the time the giant sentient showed up, Natah had already become the Lotus, and she had already taken the role as leader/minder of the Tenno. So again, your idea sounds cool but cannot work.

[trst]

The more time I spend on this forum the more I'm convinced that DE needs to either remove the "Haha" reaction or at least make it not contribute to forum rep, as it can't seem to be ruled out that people don't intentionally farm rep with them.

 

As for the discussion over Revenant's kit in relation to Eidolons and Vampires his Enthrall and Reave can be directly attributed to Vampire tropes while his passive, Mesmer Skin, and Danse Macabre all seem to be solely Eidolon based. The ability to seduce or command others, either via magic or sheer charisma, and to then use them for their own gain is a common trope associated with vampires which can completely explain Enthrall. While the ability to transform into other things, most notably smoke or mist, is also a common trope which sums up Reave while also being similar to Vomvalyst dashes. While there might be some other obscure connections the rest does just seem to be Eidolon related.

As for other concerns putting him in the same boat as Valkyr with how their primes could be the same as their non-primes there is still a simple explanation for both: the only thing changed was their appearance and theming while their abilities retained all their functionality. There isn't anything to imply that any of their abilities functioned differently pre "transformation".

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

-snip-

Again, you clearly dont understand the meaning of harnessing, infused or wreathed. There is nothing that implies corruption or change.

And please! Stop using the fan interpretation of the story. It is very off when it comes to the anchor part and the whole reform thing. They tried to use him as an anchor but instead he sacrificed himself to lock them away for good. So there was no actual "time spent as an anchor". It more or less happened over a night, that fateful night nakak mentions.

As for Warden tied to vampire? No one said it was because neither ostrons or Unum built the freakin frame nor are they orokin. He showed up and protected cetus, ta-freakin-da! A warden! His designation is Revenant, has been since his OG frame, through his prime and tenno knock off.

Regarding Valkyr. The Gersemi skin just like everything else is likely produced in more than a quantity of one. And how do you warcry without screaming? I also dont hear the supposed tortured sounds in her screams, I hear simple rage. And we cant have a version altered by the corpus because the corpus are neither orokin or tenno, so cannot create blueprints that we use. We all know that we either use tenno knock off frames, orokin primes or specifically designed orokin originals like Titania. So no, we arent using the tortured Valkyr, because we built our own Valkyr from an old tenno blueprint that was linked to Gersemi pre-skin graft and pre-skin rip done by the corpus. Again, try to understand the difference between rage, insanity and madness. How would a blueprint go insane or mad and why would that result in a life stealing part of the arsenal that also makes the frame indestructible and grow void claws?

14 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You asked how does an ability literally called SoundQuake have anything to do with sound. How tf am I the one getting the laugh reacts?

And yet I’m the bad guy for wanting the EIDOLON WARFRAME to have EIDOLON POWERS. Because having an EIDOLON WARFRAME that doesn’t have EIDOLON POWERS doesn’t make any sense. we’re not living in 1609. We have a clear understanding of what is and is not a vampire. And there is literally nothing in Revenants backstory or lore that even slightly eludes to vampirism. Just because Jimmy Twobuckle didn’t invent the word vampire until the 1800s doesn’t give you the excuse in 2020 to just call anything undead a vampire.

 

I also pointed out that if she could produce sounds of that volume the "quake" effect would be redundant because the damage would come from everyone popping due to the sound waves alone. You know, from the massive vibrations it would cause in order for the ground to crack and shake. Grineer would be suits filled with jelly and crushed bones.

We arent calling everything undead a vampire, that is just you lacking reading comprehension. You just more or less said that all undead creatures are revenants, because what we say is that vampires are revenants. Not all undead are revenants, just as not all undead are vampires. However all vampires are revenants. And there is vampiric lore in revenants backstory, he kept himself alive for years on end harnessing the energy of the eidolons, since that is the essence of vampires, to feed on the lifeforce of others to survive.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Again, you clearly dont understand the meaning of harnessing, infused or wreathed. There is nothing that implies corruption or change.

And please! Stop using the fan interpretation of the story. It is very off when it comes to the anchor part and the whole reform thing. They tried to use him as an anchor but instead he sacrificed himself to lock them away for good. So there was no actual "time spent as an anchor". It more or less happened over a night, that fateful night nakak mentions.

As for Warden tied to vampire? No one said it was because neither ostrons or Unum built the freakin frame nor are they orokin. He showed up and protected cetus, ta-freakin-da! A warden! His designation is Revenant, has been since his OG frame, through his prime and tenno knock off.

Regarding Valkyr. The Gersemi skin just like everything else is likely produced in more than a quantity of one. And how do you warcry without screaming? I also dont hear the supposed tortured sounds in her screams, I hear simple rage. And we cant have a version altered by the corpus because the corpus are neither orokin or tenno, so cannot create blueprints that we use. We all know that we either use tenno knock off frames, orokin primes or specifically designed orokin originals like Titania. So no, we arent using the tortured Valkyr, because we built our own Valkyr from an old tenno blueprint that was linked to Gersemi pre-skin graft and pre-skin rip done by the corpus. Again, try to understand the difference between rage, insanity and madness. How would a blueprint go insane or mad and why would that result in a life stealing part of the arsenal that also makes the frame indestructible and grow void claws?

I also pointed out that if she could produce sounds of that volume the "quake" effect would be redundant because the damage would come from everyone popping due to the sound waves alone. You know, from the massive vibrations it would cause in order for the ground to crack and shake. Grineer would be suits filled with jelly and crushed bones.

We arent calling everything undead a vampire, that is just you lacking reading comprehension. You just more or less said that all undead creatures are revenants, because what we say is that vampires are revenants. Not all undead are revenants, just as not all undead are vampires. However all vampires are revenants. And there is vampiric lore in revenants backstory, he kept himself alive for years on end harnessing the energy of the eidolons, since that is the essence of vampires, to feed on the lifeforce of others to survive.

That’s a lie and you know it.

It’s not the fan interpretation of the story. It’s direct quotes from that game that have been posted to the wiki. And it’s a hell lot more trustworthy than your “Vampires are ghosts and I don’t need to pull evidence to prove it” bs.

He got the title of Revenant after being corrupted by the Eidolons. Way to show you know nothing about the lore.

You realize rage, insanity and madness can intersect and have intersected in multiple instances through fiction and history.

It’s a f***ing video game. If you’re expecting 100% scientific accuracy you’re in the wrong place.

There is absolutely zero vampiric lore in Revenants backstory. Just because you say there is doesn’t mean you can continue saying it without any proof to back it up. And now you yourself are admitting that he was harnessing the powers of the Eidolons. And Eidolons very clearly are not vampires. So why does he have vampire powers and not Eidolon powers? 

Edited February 8, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

6 hours ago, trst said:

The more time I spend on this forum the more I'm convinced that DE needs to either remove the "Haha" reaction or at least make it not contribute to forum rep, as it can't seem to be ruled out that people don't intentionally farm rep with them.

 

As for the discussion over Revenant's kit in relation to Eidolons and Vampires his Enthrall and Reave can be directly attributed to Vampire tropes while his passive, Mesmer Skin, and Danse Macabre all seem to be solely Eidolon based. The ability to seduce or command others, either via magic or sheer charisma, and to then use them for their own gain is a common trope associated with vampires which can completely explain Enthrall. While the ability to transform into other things, most notably smoke or mist, is also a common trope which sums up Reave while also being similar to Vomvalyst dashes. While there might be some other obscure connections the rest does just seem to be Eidolon related.

As for other concerns putting him in the same boat as Valkyr with how their primes could be the same as their non-primes there is still a simple explanation for both: the only thing changed was their appearance and theming while their abilities retained all their functionality. There isn't anything to imply that any of their abilities functioned differently pre "transformation".

There was actually a thread a while back talking about how people are basically just abusing the laugh react as a form of dislike. The Mod response was “it gives positive rep so it doesn’t negatively effect your account”. I’ve actually tried to find out who’s laugh reacting my stuff here to ask them to stop, but they’re just hiding behind the anonymity. Tho it’s probably Reidy. Also, I just realized the irony of him defending Revenant while using Triburous’s glyph. Trib hates Rev and considers him the worst designed frame in the game XD.

Mesmer Skin is not in the slightest Eidolon themed. It was described as being like the vampires ability to hypnotize/mesmerize it’s victims. And no sentient unit has any form of defense that works like Mesmer skin.

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

14 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

I'm kinda thinking about Rev being only transformed cosmeticaly.

What if his powers were always the same and he just got some visual update by getting corrupted by that Sentient. Or their powers could have fused also or something like that.

Then what was the point of DE using a frame design that looks like and Eidolon if they had no intention of doing anything with it? It’s incredibly misleading.

Like imagine if they were like “Hey, here’s the Grineer frame. He does grineer stuff and is all about explosions and chemicals. He even looks like a grineer with the bulky armor and Clem mask”(btw DE, Heavy artillery frame when?), but all his abilities have nothing to do with explosions and instead he creates Nullifier bubbles and summons ratels. Idk about you but that is what we call misleading your audience and lying to them.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Also, for Valkyr

A proud fighter emerges unscarred by time or malice.

this is the short description of her prime frame in Arsenal.

Saying that her prime is without Malice is implying that she was without rage or hatred until the Corpus experiments. You know, 2 things commonly associated with berserkers.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

That’s a lie and you know it.

It’s not the fan interpretation of the story. It’s direct quotes from that game that have been posted to the wiki. And it’s a hell lot more trustworthy than your “Vampires are ghosts and I don’t need to pull evidence to prove it” bs.

He got the title of Revenant after being corrupted by the Eidolons. Way to show you know nothing about the lore.

You realize rage, insanity and madness can intersect and have intersected in multiple instances through fiction and history.

It’s a f***ing video game. If you’re expecting 100% scientific accuracy you’re in the wrong place.

There is absolutely zero vampiric lore in Revenants backstory. Just because you say there is doesn’t mean you can continue saying it without any proof to back it up. And now you yourself are admitting that he was harnessing the powers of the Eidolons. And Eidolons very clearly are not vampires. So why does he have vampire powers and not Eidolon powers? 

No really it isnt. Those words are not synonymous with corruption.

The part I refered to is very much a playermade interpretation from the wiki that serves as a sum up. The actual quotes from the tenno and nakak can be found on the wiki for each respective fragment. The whole anchor thing, the way the summary deals with it, is a very bad interpretation of the actual fragment out takes.

No he didnt, there is no record of that at all.

Yes they can, but that doesnt mean hysteria suddenly popped up due to corpus driving valkyr insane and mad. She's always been a berserk/norse rage frame.

Yeah sure, but that isnt what I'm saying either. I'm saying the design of it is redundant, since the earthquake wouldnt even be remotely needed in order to decimate armies. They'd be dead long before such an outcome would come into effect.

Because of his original frame build. How many times does that have to be said? Again, harnessing isnt the same as being corrupted. If you can harness something you tend to be able to do so to your benefit. It is more that Rev is an eidolon frame because he has managed to survive by using them and their power to sustain himself, not that he is one because he got turned by them. And the vampirism is there since he did feed on something to keep himself "whole". It is even part of his kit and that part of his kit also works on sentients to 1HK them. There is a reason Nakak says we may need him to battle coming threats.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

No really it isnt. Those words are not synonymous with corruption.

The part I refered to is very much a playermade interpretation from the wiki that serves as a sum up. The actual quotes from the tenno and nakak can be found on the wiki for each respective fragment. The whole anchor thing, the way the summary deals with it, is a very bad interpretation of the actual fragment out takes.

No he didnt, there is no record of that at all.

Yes they can, but that doesnt mean hysteria suddenly popped up due to corpus driving valkyr insane and mad. She's always been a berserk/norse rage frame.

Yeah sure, but that isnt what I'm saying either. I'm saying the design of it is redundant, since the earthquake wouldnt even be remotely needed in order to decimate armies. They'd be dead long before such an outcome would come into effect.

Because of his original frame build. How many times does that have to be said? Again, harnessing isnt the same as being corrupted. If you can harness something you tend to be able to do so to your benefit. It is more that Rev is an eidolon frame because he has managed to survive by using them and their power to sustain himself, not that he is one because he got turned by them. And the vampirism is there since he did feed on something to keep himself "whole". It is even part of his kit and that part of his kit also works on sentients to 1HK them. There is a reason Nakak says we may need him to battle coming threats.

They’re pretty f***ing Synonymous.

You realize that the quote, player interpreted or not, mention Sentients and Eidolons at least 5 times and vampires zero times. So even someone who you claim is poorly interpreting the lore can’t find anything to do with vampires.

After completing the story, the Warden, now transformed into the Revenant

Do you even f***ing read the lore.

Valkyr went from not angry to angry because of a faction that was not the Orokin. Introducing the fact that Warframes can be altered from the original design.

You still questioned how an ability with sound it it’s f***ing name had anything to do with sound. Like that alone made my alliance (who is full of people who disagree with me on many things) tell me that that’s the stupidest thing they’ve ever heard. Like I genuinely feel bad for the people who are siding with you. Because not only are you displaying your complete lack of intelligence, but you’re dragging them down with you. And we both know Reidy is most likely one of them.

You saying it doesn’t make it true. In fact at this rate anything you say can actively be taken as the exact opposite of truth. There is still a plethora of evidence that Revenant was corrupted/infused by/with Eidolon energy and converted into an Eidolon frame. And still zero evidence that he should be vampire themed.

Also, Warframes are already immortal. So why would he need to “feed on Eidolon energy” to stay alive?

Edited February 8, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

They’re pretty f***ing Synonymous.

You realize that the quote, player interpreted or not, mention Sentients and Eidolons at least 5 times and vampires zero times. So even someone who you claim is poorly interpreting the lore can’t find anything to do with vampires.

After completing the story, the Warden, now transformed into the Revenant

Do you even f***ing read the lore.

Valkyr went from not angry to angry because of a faction that was not the Orokin. Introducing the fact that Warframes can be altered from the original design.

You still questioned how an ability with sound it it’s f***ing name had anything to do with sound. Like that alone made my alliance (who is full of people who disagree with me on many things) tell me that that’s the stupidest thing they’ve ever heard. Like I genuinely feel bad for the people who are siding with you. Because not only are you displaying your complete lack of intelligence, but you’re dragging them down with you. And we both know Reidy is most likely one of them.

You saying it doesn’t make it true. In fact at this rate anything you say can actively be taken as the exact opposite of truth. There is still a plethora of evidence that Revenant was corrupted/infused by/with Eidolon energy and converted into an Eidolon frame. And still zero evidence that he should be vampire themed.

Also, Warframes are already immortal. So why would he need to “feed on Eidolon energy” to stay alive?

No really they arent.

What other frame has its earthly inspiration theme mentioned in the lore? None.

Yet another quote from a player made entry. The same exact playermade entry at that. 

No Valkyr was pretty damn angry to begin with. Corpus drove that specific one insane. That specific frame is no more.

No I questioned what the theme of the frame has to do with the actual earthquake part of the skill. You do understand the word redundant right? If they would have skipped the whole quakey animation of it, it wouldnt have looked out of place in the frame kit, because then everything would have been about pure sound. But I guess I'll make sure to spell it out for you next time in toddler english, so you might get the point.

But the game is there as the evidence, thousands of years of in-game lore that specifically states that frames are designed by the orokin aswell as the tenno, based on blueprints from an original that in most cases went haywire and turned on its creators. That is the whole concept of frames. Our own tenno is not known for creating their own blueprints, hence why we keep hunting them down throughout the whole solar system. That is in the lore of the game.

Where do you get the idea from that frames are immortal? They can die or well get destroyed/cease to be in several different ways. And rev likely fed to stay powered, since there would be no tenno left to control it or infuse it with void energy. He's one of those spectacular few that have gone on alone, like Chroma.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

25 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No really they arent.

What other frame has its earthly inspiration theme mentioned in the lore? None.

Yet another quote from a player made entry. The same exact playermade entry at that. 

No Valkyr was pretty damn angry to begin with. Corpus drove that specific one insane. That specific frame is no more.

No I questioned what the theme of the frame has to do with the actual earthquake part of the skill. You do understand the word redundant right? If they would have skipped the whole quakey animation of it, it wouldnt have looked out of place in the frame kit, because then everything would have been about pure sound. But I guess I'll make sure to spell it out for you next time in toddler english, so you might get the point.

But the game is there as the evidence, thousands of years of in-game lore that specifically states that frames are designed by the orokin aswell as the tenno, based on blueprints from an original that in most cases went haywire and turned on its creators. That is the whole concept of frames. Our own tenno is not known for creating their own blueprints, hence why we keep hunting them down throughout the whole solar system. That is in the lore of the game.

Where do you get the idea from that frames are immortal? They can die or well get destroyed/cease to be in several different ways. And rev likely fed to stay powered, since there would be no tenno left to control it or infuse it with void energy. He's one of those spectacular few that have gone on alone, like Chroma.

Yes they really are.

That’s because every other frames theme is obvious from just playing them (except Khora)

Still more evidence than anything that would link Revenant to vampires.

Read her Prime’s arsenal entry why don’t ya.

Soundquakes description literally reads “Channeling all of her acoustic energy into the environment, Banshee uses ultrasonic reverberations to violently shake the ground”. It’s an earthquake caused by sound. Now I know that’s a very difficult concept to grasp for somebody like you. But if you really push that one brain cell of yours I think you’ll be able to understand that soundquake does actually has something to do with sound.

Ok, so why did the Orokin make a Warframe that looks like an Eidolon if they weren’t going to give it Eidolon powers.

The Kuva liches call us immortal. Also it’s a very common misconception that immortals can’t be killed. They can’t die of old age, but they can be killed.

Edited February 8, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[TearsOfTomorrow]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

(except Khora

BDSM

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

38 minutes ago, TearsOfTomorrow said:

BDSM

Her theme was lost upon DE having to rework her halfway through development.

She was dubbed the BDSM frame by the community as a joke. It’s not her official theme as that would be incredibly immature and unprofessional of DE to release an official frame of that nature. It would be like if they actually released Hentai frame.

[Kerberos-3]

On the note of Valkyr's Prime Problem, I'd like to point out that she is not the only Frame with that issue. Nova, Nidus, Harrow, and Revenant all have the same issue, although for somewhat different reasons.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

45 minutes ago, Kerberos-3 said:

On the note of Valkyr's Prime Problem, I'd like to point out that she is not the only Frame with that issue. Nova, Nidus, Harrow, and Revenant all have the same issue, although for somewhat different reasons.

Nidus was a frame that was consumed by the helminth strain upon his construction. So he just became the infested frame. That can be primed.

Novas just a frame without an elaborate backstory.

Harrows the gunslinger cleric/priest. Nothing about his backstory creates conflict between normal and prime.

[Kerberos-3]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Nidus was a frame that was consumed by the helminth strain upon his construction. So he just became the infested frame. That can be primed.

Novas just a frame without an elaborate backstory.

Harrows the gunslinger cleric/priest. Nothing about his backstory creates conflict between normal and prime.

The first Harrow ever created in lore was built from scraps salvaged/stolen by the early Red Veil for Rell. Since it was not created by the Orokin, there cannot be a Harrow Prime without it creating a Lore Paradox.

Nova was created by the Tenno High Council in the lore, a group that is highly unlikely to have existed during the Orokin era due to the potential such a group would have for leading a rebellion.

Nidus is a frame that utilized the raw form of the Infestation as the source of it's power, something that the Orokin couldn't control.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

31 minutes ago, Kerberos-3 said:

The first Harrow ever created in lore was built from scraps salvaged/stolen by the early Red Veil for Rell. Since it was not created by the Orokin, there cannot be a Harrow Prime without it creating a Lore Paradox.

Nova was created by the Tenno High Council in the lore, a group that is highly unlikely to have existed during the Orokin era due to the potential such a group would have for leading a rebellion.

Nidus is a frame that utilized the raw form of the Infestation as the source of it's power, something that the Orokin couldn't control.

I’m seeing nothing in Harrows lore suggesting he was built by Rell. All it says is Rell bound himself to Harrow for protection. 

Novas abilities were designed by the Design council. A group that is comprised of actual Warframe players and do not exist in lore. And saying that she was designed by the Tenno high council is a nod to that. So it’s debatable if that’s actually part of the canon.

And Nidus Prime was the version of Nidus that did that. So there can be a prime version of him that fits the lore.

 

[(PSN)grayscale358]

19 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

There was actually a thread a while back talking about how people are basically just abusing the laugh react as a form of dislike. The Mod response was “it gives positive rep so it doesn’t negatively effect your account”. I’ve actually tried to find out who’s laugh reacting my stuff here to ask them to stop, but they’re just hiding behind the anonymity. Tho it’s probably Reidy. Also, I just realized the irony of him defending Revenant while using Triburous’s glyph. Trib hates Rev and considers him the worst designed frame in the game XD.

Mesmer Skin is not in the slightest Eidolon themed. It was described as being like the vampires ability to hypnotize/mesmerize it’s victims. And no sentient unit has any form of defense that works like Mesmer skin.

 

Nah man, not me. I legitimately don't react to anything. And I can enjoy a content creators opinion enough to support his channel, whilst disagreeing with him.

With Ervin, there a a few of his points that are just the same thing, and I had no take on the soundquake thing, that was stupid. I certainly think Revenant could be a better frame, although more thought should be put into redesigning him than 'make him an eidolon' which is the dumbed down idea you're getting across. 

Now, you mentioned Cthulhu and to be fair, that already roughly matches his kit. Mind control can be related to the cults and mind altering properties of the Great Old Ones. Reave, how the Great Old Ones draw energy from their victims at times. Mesmer Skin, the Great Old Ones could mesmerize those who gazed upon them. And Danse is an extermination attack, although Revenants old 4 could work with that too. The mass sleep references how the Great Old Ones mostly influence people in their sleep.

Good pick on that honestly, I know some of what I mentioned there could be a stretch, but game balance exists, and being permanently impervious to damage isn't balanced

His kit itself is perfectly useful up into level ranges other frames can't touch due to the infinite scaling of the Mesmer skin-Enthrall-Reave combo, and I feel like when reworking him, this aspect should be kept, although maybe a little neutered so that bosses aren't insta-killed. (If you want a video, just ask and I'll post it here.)

We already know there are lore issues in the game, even ignoring Revenant and Valkyr. Most of these issues stem from the knowledge that A, All frames will be primed. And B, No changes will be made to those frames other than visual, and statistical.

In my personal opinion, Nidus shouldn't be primed and, if Revenant is reworked to be more Eidolon themed, Revenant. The primes just... wouldn't make sense. Nidus would likely be considered a failure, because well, the infestation ran rampant on his frame. Why go beyond a prototype? And Revenant, because he was corrupted by things that didn't exist whilst the Orokin were around.

I don't want to see Rev reworked, because I enjoy the mechanics behind Reave, and just enjoy the mind-control aspect. I would play Nyx, but Nyx has... issues.

Edited February 9, 2020 by (PS4)reidy35
Grammar

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Yes they really are.

That’s because every other frames theme is obvious from just playing them (except Khora)

Still more evidence than anything that would link Revenant to vampires.

Read her Prime’s arsenal entry why don’t ya.

Soundquakes description literally reads “Channeling all of her acoustic energy into the environment, Banshee uses ultrasonic reverberations to violently shake the ground”. It’s an earthquake caused by sound. Now I know that’s a very difficult concept to grasp for somebody like you. But if you really push that one brain cell of yours I think you’ll be able to understand that soundquake does actually has something to do with sound.

Ok, so why did the Orokin make a Warframe that looks like an Eidolon if they weren’t going to give it Eidolon powers.

The Kuva liches call us immortal. Also it’s a very common misconception that immortals can’t be killed. They can’t die of old age, but they can be killed.

Just look up the words man. Harness is more or less the opposite of corruption, since when you harness something you bend it to your will to reap the benefits. Being wreathed can either be synonymous to encased or crowned, so have wide difference in meaning, neither comes close to corruption or actual change. Infused is also something that means it turns for the better. Corruption is always something negative. The words have nothing to do with corruption, but they do have alot in common with the opposite.

No really they arent. With zero info regarding his team the name coupled with the skills would give a very clear view of him to also go with his looks. Vampire specifically maybe not, but that is because his look doesnt really imply that. But since vampire are originally revenants in lore the skills would still be spot on to the theme since most of those creatures share abilities across cultures across the whole planet. Vampire itself is very slavic in nature.

No really it isnt, because it has no connection to the actual lore. And the link Rev has to vampires is thematic by the will of the Orokin, just like Loki is themed after the god (very loosely) or an Orokin was a big fan of ancient earth comic books (looks more like that is the case). As I've said to you earlier, there are no vampires in WF. Which is an odd thing you obsess about when you also said "there were no previous berserkers in WF so they could do what they wanted with Valkyr" in the other thread. Wouldnt that same rule follow Rev too? I mean there have been no previous vampires in WF, so obviously they could do their own thing around it. Berserkers are as wide in lore as vampires across the globe, berserks pretty much describe every single cultures engraged warriors these days, but there are only two real actual beserker cults, namely berserks and ulvhednar, one based on bears, the other on wolves, both being elite warriors sworn to Odin. Those in wolfskins were also so dedicated that their weapon of choice was the spear. So saying Valkyr is a berserker frame is a very loose thematic description.

Which part of it? I dont see the point you are trying to make.

It doesnt make the skill less redundant in design. Read up what redundant means if you wanna continue to argue sound quake.

They didnt. We dont have access to the OG nor the prime. The Rev we have is the tenno made version used in the aftermath of the old war when the tenno betrayed the orokin. There would also have been no way for the orokin to give a frame "eidolon" power, because there were no eidolons until that sentient died on earth, which was at the end of or just after the old war. There is also very likely no way in hell that the orokin would introduce sentient tech in a weapon designed to kill just that, sentients.

Yes and losing what powers you is not age. So sustaining himself was needed in some way i.e harnessing the eidolon energy and infusing himself with it. And I do think the Kuva Liches refer to the tenno actually, not the frames, since the tenno can be seen as immortal because they've been around for thousands of years and still look like tweens.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

46 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Just look up the words man. Harness is more or less the opposite of corruption, since when you harness something you bend it to your will to reap the benefits. Being wreathed can either be synonymous to encased or crowned, so have wide difference in meaning, neither comes close to corruption or actual change. Infused is also something that means it turns for the better. Corruption is always something negative. The words have nothing to do with corruption, but they do have alot in common with the opposite.

No really they arent. With zero info regarding his team the name coupled with the skills would give a very clear view of him to also go with his looks. Vampire specifically maybe not, but that is because his look doesnt really imply that. But since vampire are originally revenants in lore the skills would still be spot on to the theme since most of those creatures share abilities across cultures across the whole planet. Vampire itself is very slavic in nature.

No really it isnt, because it has no connection to the actual lore. And the link Rev has to vampires is thematic by the will of the Orokin, just like Loki is themed after the god (very loosely) or an Orokin was a big fan of ancient earth comic books (looks more like that is the case). As I've said to you earlier, there are no vampires in WF. Which is an odd thing you obsess about when you also said "there were no previous berserkers in WF so they could do what they wanted with Valkyr" in the other thread. Wouldnt that same rule follow Rev too? I mean there have been no previous vampires in WF, so obviously they could do their own thing around it. Berserkers are as wide in lore as vampires across the globe, berserks pretty much describe every single cultures engraged warriors these days, but there are only two real actual beserker cults, namely berserks and ulvhednar, one based on bears, the other on wolves, both being elite warriors sworn to Odin. Those in wolfskins were also so dedicated that their weapon of choice was the spear. So saying Valkyr is a berserker frame is a very loose thematic description.

Which part of it? I dont see the point you are trying to make.

It doesnt make the skill less redundant in design. Read up what redundant means if you wanna continue to argue sound quake.

They didnt. We dont have access to the OG nor the prime. The Rev we have is the tenno made version used in the aftermath of the old war when the tenno betrayed the orokin. There would also have been no way for the orokin to give a frame "eidolon" power, because there were no eidolons until that sentient died on earth, which was at the end of or just after the old war. There is also very likely no way in hell that the orokin would introduce sentient tech in a weapon designed to kill just that, sentients.

Yes and losing what powers you is not age. So sustaining himself was needed in some way i.e harnessing the eidolon energy and infusing himself with it. And I do think the Kuva Liches refer to the tenno actually, not the frames, since the tenno can be seen as immortal because they've been around for thousands of years and still look like tweens.

Warframe does not lend itself to your extremely restricted sense of defining words.

Again. This is 2020. We all know what a vampire is and is not. Just because they used an old fashioned vampire for inspiration instead of a modern day vampire doesn’t mean you can act like we can only use the 1700’s definition of what a vampire is.

Eidolons are not vampires. Even if we take into consideration that different factions have different interpretations of certain things. The fact that Eidolons literally have nothing to do with what vampires do completely destroys your theory. Simply saying “They undead so vampire” isn’t enough to justify a vampire theme. There several other undead things in fiction. Ghosts, liches, zombies, skeletons, drauger, mummy, Banshees, poltergeists. So coming to the conclusion that Revenant should be a vampire is a very unlikely one.

So how did Revenant start looking like an Eidolon if his “vampire theme” is so incorruptible?

So if Revenant is taking in enough Eidolon energy to completely alter his appearance. Wouldn’t it make sense that it would also completely change his abilities, as he is clearly no longer the same frame that initially entered the eidolon dimension.

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Warframe does not lend itself to your extremely restricted sense of defining words.

Again. This is 2020. We all know what a vampire is and is not. Just because they used an old fashioned vampire for inspiration instead of a modern day vampire doesn’t mean you can act like we can only use the 1700’s definition of what a vampire is.

Eidolons are not vampires. Even if we take into consideration that different factions have different interpretations of certain things. The fact that Eidolons literally have nothing to do with what vampires do completely destroys your theory. Simply saying “They undead so vampire” isn’t enough to justify a vampire theme. There several other undead things in fiction. Ghosts, liches, zombies, skeletons, drauger, mummy, Banshees, poltergeists. So coming to the conclusion that Revenant should be a vampire is a very unlikely one.

So how did Revenant start looking like an Eidolon if his “vampire theme” is so incorruptible?

So if Revenant is taking in enough Eidolon energy to completely alter his appearance. Wouldn’t it make sense that it would also completely change his abilities, as he is clearly no longer the same frame that initially entered the eidolon dimension.

Seriously? Words are words, words have a meaning, there is nothing else to it. There is no place where either of those words translate into corruption.

Yes and being 2020 doesnt magically remove the origin of the concept. And of course it doesnt mean we have to use only one definition, it is just that the version we have is as correct as any other, because the traits Rev current have apply to vampiric creatures as far back as ancient greece (if not further). Except for his 4. I would have been just as fine with him if he clinged onto someones neck and drew their blood aswell as turning into a swarm of bats to rend his foes. That is because I know the lore is with around vamps and I'm not gonna obsess over one specific version.

What are you even on about? No one has ever said anything about eidolons being like vampires. Calm down and actually read what is written. I've said from the beginning, the vampiric theme comes from the Orokin. Last I checked Orokin arent sentients nor eidolons, so what exactly are you answering to straight out of the blue? And again, dude please read! No one is saying "undead so vampire!", I'm saying vampires are part of the collective term revenant alongside draugr, poltergeist, ghost and others. They all share the same origin concept and traits.

I'd assume his look comes from thousands of year degrading at the bottom of a lake or whatever place the Unum tucked away the eidolons. We all know frames are sensitive to different elements/environments so they will degenerate over time. Who knows, he may have been in constant battle with the eidolons since he disappeared aswell. And according to the story, it is really only his specter we fight because the story implies that we should go bother the grineer since they recently dug up some relics i.e Rev's components.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Seriously? Words are words, words have a meaning, there is nothing else to it. There is no place where either of those words translate into corruption.

Yes and being 2020 doesnt magically remove the origin of the concept. And of course it doesnt mean we have to use only one definition, it is just that the version we have is as correct as any other, because the traits Rev current have apply to vampiric creatures as far back as ancient greece (if not further). Except for his 4. I would have been just as fine with him if he clinged onto someones neck and drew their blood aswell as turning into a swarm of bats to rend his foes. That is because I know the lore is with around vamps and I'm not gonna obsess over one specific version.

What are you even on about? No one has ever said anything about eidolons being like vampires. Calm down and actually read what is written. I've said from the beginning, the vampiric theme comes from the Orokin. Last I checked Orokin arent sentients nor eidolons, so what exactly are you answering to straight out of the blue? And again, dude please read! No one is saying "undead so vampire!", I'm saying vampires are part of the collective term revenant alongside draugr, poltergeist, ghost and others. They all share the same origin concept and traits.

I'd assume his look comes from thousands of year degrading at the bottom of a lake or whatever place the Unum tucked away the eidolons. We all know frames are sensitive to different elements/environments so they will degenerate over time. Who knows, he may have been in constant battle with the eidolons since he disappeared aswell. And according to the story, it is really only his specter we fight because the story implies that we should go bother the grineer since they recently dug up some relics i.e Rev's components.

If I get a blood infusion. And that blood is tainted with mystical dark energy. I would then be corrupted by that energy. Would I not?

There is nothing about Eidolons that justify Revenants first 3 abilities. They share 0 common traits outside of their appearance. Eidolons can Mind Control, they don’t have a charges based defense system that puts you to sleep, and they don’t rush through you as a wall of mist snapping away your health. This whole debate has been about how his 1-3 doesn’t make any sense and this entire time you’ve been saying “They make sense because Revenant has them”? The whole debate is that Revenant shouldn’t have them!

You’re the one who went on like 15 rants about undead this and ghost that and somehow came to the conclusion that Revenant should be a vampire frame. Vampires aren’t the only types of Revenants. And I already told you that holding a Warframes name up against their theme and expecting them to match 100% is a fools errand. So saying that he should be a vampire based strictly off his name doesn’t hold up. Not to mention his theme was chosen before his name was even officially decided on.

So you will say that their appearance can be altered by their surroundings, but they can’t also obtain new abilities if that environment is something like an Eidolon dimension that slowly corrupting the Warframe and changing it from what it used to be? I mean we can go back to how his 4th ability is described as eidolon lasers. We can go into the development history and see that it was added because Steve wanted Revenant to be more Eidolon themed. But apparently none of that matters because you think his name being Revenant immediately means he should be a vampire.

[nslay]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

If I get a blood infusion. And that blood is tainted with mystical dark energy. I would then be corrupted by that energy. Would I not?

I mean... you are reasoning with imagined concepts which could have any imagined definition and property! It's silliness I say!

For example, Spider Man was bitten by a spider and the venom only gave him strength. He's still very much a human... just with some powers. He wasn't corrupted into a radioactive spider.

Another example: In Diablo, the Wanderer was possessed by Diablo. He was corrupted into Diablo incarnate. He was no longer human.

So what would happen if your blood was tainted with mystical dark energy? I think you might turn into a mystical unicorn that breaths dangerous streams of confetti and party balloons... a party unicorn with a dark side!