Trying to make any single sense out of revenant lore

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

16 minutes ago, Kasa_ said:

So first, sentients are so varied and new that sentient-vampires wouldn't surprise me. Second, we don't know what could do Eidolon when it was whole so he could as well do what Revenant can do and more. Third its common in warframe design to not fully correspond to their kit (Ash: ninja theme, insect design. Khora: "dominatrix" theme, spider design. Limbo: time and dimensions theme, magician design), So why not a vampire theme and a sentient design (yes vampire can also shoot laser, look at Dio Brando). Yes it is wierd, but no its not the first time it happens.

As i said, sentient are too new and fresh to know what they can do so anything can happen. As for the primes, we don't know yet, the special quest frame aren't there yet so we can't be sure how DE would handle it. I am by no means a "DE white knight" because are lot of their stuff is flawed and need changes.

Also i'm not throwing your opinion out by the window, and i understand why you are dissapointed by the frame. But its only a opinion, like my opinion is that i like the design of Revenant and his kit, and i'd like it to stay this way.

If DE released new sentient units that just copied Revenants powers to cover up the fact that he is not Eidolon/Sentient themed, instead of owning up to it and fixing it by actually reworking Revenant, it will be one of the scummiest things they ever do. 

There’s a big difference between a frame like Ash’s design and a frame like Revenants design. Ash’s design isn’t based of an already established faction with powers and abilities unique only to them. How would you feel if DE was like “Hey guys, here’s the Grineer frame. His whole deal is being a grineer, he even looks like one. So his abilities have to do with explosives and chemicals”. But when they show off that frames abilities he’s summoning Corpus ospreys and creating Nullifier bubbles and not doing anything that relates to Explosive and/or chemicals.

Nidus is a good example. He’s the infested frame, but he doesn’t have attacks that mimic infested units. Instead his gameplay revolves around growing and spreading his infestation. Which, lore wise, is what the infested do.

Khora has no definitive theme. DE forgot to give her one after they had to completely redesign her abilities mod development. My initial guess was liquid metal, but now we’ll never know.

We already have quest frames that are primed. I don’t know what point you’re trying to make with that paragraph.

If you like Revenant and his design you are my enemy.

[Kasa_]

il y a 20 minutes, TheGodofWiFi a dit :

I have given you lore from in the game which clearly shows that the Warden frame could not logically have been a Prime as it is both post-war and the very fact that we do not get a Prime warframe from the Revenant quest.

Revenant was created by accident like Valkyr.

Well we can't be sure, we could also have got the BP of the new Revenant because we scanned it or whatever. We will soon have Titania prime and, but the silver grove gave us the normal BP because the data are damaged because its old or something. So Revenant can as well get a prime variant.

The issue with Valkyr isn't the Prime variant itself. its the controversy about whether her skin is canon or not (if her skin isn't canon, valkyr prime variant is fine but if the skin is canon, there is a huge plothole) and DE never stated whether the skin is canon or not.

il y a 33 minutes, TheGodofWiFi a dit :

Yes it does. The lore specifically states that Revenant was a completely different frame before the Eidolon captured him. That is a stone cold fact backed up by lore.

I saw the quest and the fragment of Nakak's memory on the codex and nothing states that he was completely different. maybe he didn't look the same, and his powers look different but he could have had the same powers we can't know. Hell, maybe he was a fragment of Eidolon repurposed by the orokin (just a theory). if you do have that stone cold fact backed up by lore, i'd like the link or the way to acces it.

 

il y a 41 minutes, TheGodofWiFi a dit :

Revenant’s original form, was not a Prime. Thats a fact. It was a different frame with different powers and his Prime would logically be different as well according to the lore.

Or the tenno always used the prime model to make the ones we know because they are not orokin craftsmen and can't do exact replicas, we don't know either. It was never explained in the lore as far as i know but if you have the link to that, it might help.

[Kasa_]

il y a 4 minutes, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

We already have quest frames that are primed. I don’t know what point you’re trying to make with that paragraph.

I mean Frames with big lore about their appearance, octavia or inaros for example (octavia appear next to archemidian suda in the comic when it wasn't the fall of their civilisation yet. And inaros because the tomb have the normal inaros appearance despite being a resurected mummy. The desert people should maybe worship the prime inaros. )

 

il y a 8 minutes, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

If DE released new sentient units that just copied Revenants powers to cover up the fact that he is not Eidolon/Sentient themed, instead of owning up to it and fixing it by actually reworking Revenant, it will be one of the scummiest things they ever do. 

So what, now the lore make more sense, the sentient can do a lot of stuff we don't know, its not because you don't like the kit that it doesn't make sense.

il y a 11 minutes, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

There’s a big difference between a frame like Ash’s design and a frame like Revenants design. Ash’s design isn’t based of an already established faction with powers and abilities unique only to them.

You got a point, but Octavia can summon a roller, vauban too. Liches can also use our own power like miasma or disarm, Hell even corpus do sentient magic now. DE is known to recycle stuff since the beginning, you souldn't be upset about it.

 

il y a 18 minutes, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

Khora has no definitive theme. DE forgot to give her one after they had to completely redesign her abilities mod development. My initial guess was liquid metal, but now we’ll never know

 Khora have a definitive theme, its her whip and her cat, the only thing they changed about the theme was about the damage type she had but DE scrapped damage 3.0. Her abilities would have being the same as we know.

 

il y a 24 minutes, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

If you like Revenant and his design you are my enemy.

That is not very nice but you know what, everyone have different tastes 🙂

If you wan't Revenant rework so bad you should talk about it in the feedback section, this thread was about the lore at first

[TheGodofWiFi]

9 hours ago, Kasa_ said:

Well we can't be sure, we could also have got the BP of the new Revenant because we scanned it or whatever.

How is this a valid counter-argument? “We scanned it or whatever”.

No. It does not make sense for us to scan a Prime warframe and get a regular vanilla blueprint.

9 hours ago, Kasa_ said:

We will soon have Titania prime and, but the silver grove gave us the normal BP because the data are damaged because its old or something.

Honestly, you sound like you are literally plucking ideas out of the air. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. Silver Grove once again never implied that Titania cannot have a Prime, anywhere at all.

9 hours ago, Kasa_ said:

The issue with Valkyr isn't the Prime variant itself. its the controversy about whether her skin is canon or not (if her skin isn't canon, valkyr prime variant is fine but if the skin is canon, there is a huge plothole)

Thats exactly what I was saying...

Seriously is everyone in this thread just talking at people instead of with them. 

9 hours ago, Kasa_ said:

So Revenant can as well get a prime variant.

I never said he couldn’t. I just said lore-wise it would not make sense and no one here has proven otherwise. Gears is just intent on arguing for the sake of it and so provides nothing but half baked “what ifs” and concepts that are not supported in the lore.

You have just gone “We scanned or whatever” and “because its old or something”. Not compelling arguments.

9 hours ago, Kasa_ said:

9 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

 

I saw the quest and the fragment of Nakak's memory on the codex and nothing states that he was completely different. maybe he didn't look the same, and his powers look different but he could have had the same powers we can't know.

Yes it does and yes we can.

Revenants lore specifically implies he only got the power of the Eidolon when he sacrificed himself to stop it from re-emerging.

From the wiki;

“Nakak Transmission I see… the tendril once again. Instead of striking it… the lost one… he extends a hand to the Eidolon?! Khanung!  What was he thinking? He's like Mukha on the tower. Every day, Mukha clamored across the tower ledges and scaffolds - nothing happened, day in and day out… Routine took his fear away. Uhh…  Tenno - I see the tendril has him now. The lost one. He's become an anchor for the Eidolon - to pull itself into our world! The lost one struggles, pulling back, but it's too late! The Eidolon begins to emerge. But… the lost one realizes - he stops… he lets go…  And so he falls. Falls from this world of the living and down, down, into the next. Mukha, that was so stupid.”

”Ravaged by Sentient energy, wreathed with eldritch Eidolon essence, the blighted sovereign Revenant subjugates foes through his affliction.”

This lore very clearly implies that the Warden was a completely different frame that was ravaged and transformed by the Eidolon after it sacrificed itself to stop it from re-emerging. The Warden then became Revenant and its essence was under the Eidolon’s control until we freed it.

9 hours ago, Kasa_ said:

Or the tenno always used the prime model to make the ones we know because they are not orokin craftsmen and can't do exact replicas, we don't know either.

That also does not make any sense either as the spectre we see during the official quest-line, is the normal Revenant, not a Prime. If he was a Prime, why would he be appearing as the Tenno variant? 

Edited February 14, 2020 by TheGodofWiFi

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Is Revenant called Vampire? No? Then he’s a Revenant not a vampire. And again, this whole entire f***inf argument is about how the vampire theme has no business being on a Revenant and it’s addition was one of the stupidest decisions they made in 2018. Say “oh well they made the decision so it’s obvious that The Eidolon frame should’ve been a vampire” is dumb. 

But the vampire theme and the kit around it was shown first. Then players went "naaaw nut anudder CC frem!". So they had to rework him into something else, where he got his #4 pew pew pew skill.

And if you wanna argue that the skills he has doesnt fit on a vamp frame then I guess you should start sending hate letters to Games Workshop too regarding all of their games where they include thralls and mesmerization as the two main things of their vampires. You should also hate the Leslie Nielsen Dracula parody since the best part of that whole movie is the mentally unstable thrall Renfield.

14 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The lore isn’t that the sentient required Kuva to survive. It’s that it tasted the kiva and saw the power it provided and wanted it for themself.

It actually is, because the sentient is there to get hands on the Kuva since it may be the thing to actually bring back their reproductive capabilities that got lost during their void travel. And if reproduction of a species isnt survival then I dont know what it.

14 hours ago, Kasa_ said:

Well we can't be sure, we could also have got the BP of the new Revenant because we scanned it or whatever. We will soon have Titania prime and, but the silver grove gave us the normal BP because the data are damaged because its old or something. So Revenant can as well get a prime variant.

We actually use a hologram of Rev in order to make him. We take down a specter on the plains, not the actual Revenant. And for Titania. There is nothing in the story that says there cant be a prime. The Titania in the story is very much a gen 1 warframe, so prior to the primes even, because she has no operator and acts fully on her own and has some specific tie to Silvana, the person that reluctantly created her on Ballas' orders, the person she gives her own life to save as the Dax come to hunt Silvana down on earth after her defection. She was created elsewhere, so there is no stopping Ballas and the rest of the Orokin from making a prime in Silvanas absence. The reason Titania was also on earth is probably because she snuck on the same ship that took Silvana there. The time of the primes happened after several gen 1 frames went haywire. Reason we got a tenno-titania is because we had to reverse engineer what was left of that original.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But the vampire theme and the kit around it was shown first. Then players went "naaaw nut anudder CC frem!". So they had to rework him into something else, where he got his #4 pew pew pew skill.

And if you wanna argue that the skills he has doesnt fit on a vamp frame then I guess you should start sending hate letters to Games Workshop too regarding all of their games where they include thralls and mesmerization as the two main things of their vampires. You should also hate the Leslie Nielsen Dracula parody since the best part of that whole movie is the mentally unstable thrall Renfield.

It actually is, because the sentient is there to get hands on the Kuva since it may be the thing to actually bring back their reproductive capabilities that got lost during their void travel. And if reproduction of a species isnt survival then I dont know what it.

We actually use a hologram of Rev in order to make him. We take down a specter on the plains, not the actual Revenant. And for Titania. There is nothing in the story that says there cant be a prime. The Titania in the story is very much a gen 1 warframe, so prior to the primes even, because she has no operator and acts fully on her own and has some specific tie to Silvana, the person that reluctantly created her on Ballas' orders, the person she gives her own life to save as the Dax come to hunt Silvana down on earth after her defection. She was created elsewhere, so there is no stopping Ballas and the rest of the Orokin from making a prime in Silvanas absence. The reason Titania was also on earth is probably because she snuck on the same ship that took Silvana there. The time of the primes happened after several gen 1 frames went haywire. Reason we got a tenno-titania is because we had to reverse engineer what was left of that original.

No, the concept art for the EIDOLON WARFRAME was shown first.

No, the skills don’t fit on an Eidolon frame. Here you are giving me crap about my “poor reading comprehension” yet you can’t don’t even know what I’m arguing against despite the fact that I’ve spelled it out for you atleast twice.

We don’t know why the Sentient arrived at earth. And the way the fragment describe it, it appears that it didn’t have a real purpose until it tasted the Kuva and decided it wanted to become one with the Unum.

You realize that that first Titania can also very likely also have been a prime.

[TheGodofWiFi]

Can someone just lock this thread please? Its just become a bile-filled, never ending argument thats being dragged on because certain people desperately want the last word.

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

No, the concept art for the EIDOLON WARFRAME was shown first.

No, the skills don’t fit on an Eidolon frame. Here you are giving me crap about my “poor reading comprehension” yet you can’t don’t even know what I’m arguing against despite the fact that I’ve spelled it out for you atleast twice.

We don’t know why the Sentient arrived at earth. And the way the fragment describe it, it appears that it didn’t have a real purpose until it tasted the Kuva and decided it wanted to become one with the Unum.

You realize that that first Titania can also very likely also have been a prime.

That was in the same devstream where his nickname Vlad was shown. The eidolon frame was a concept art picture, you know the black and white pencil drawing.

Then why have you argued against the kit not being proper for a vampire themed frame either? You were mighty mad several posts back where you thought it was bad the vamp theme had been based around "1800's" was it?

Yes we do know that, it is in the story about the Unum. It never had a chance to taste the Kuva, it never got into cetus. It had destroyed several other towers previous to that. But I guess there was no Unum in those nor any Kuva.

Nope, impossible that the Titania was a prime, because primes arent automated while the Titania acted on her own. All primes require a tenno, it is the whole point of the primes in order to remove the issues with several gen 1. And Titania killing the Dax happened at a time long before the collapse and the tenno betrayal.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

That was in the same devstream where his nickname Vlad was shown. The eidolon frame was a concept art picture, you know the black and white pencil drawing.

Then why have you argued against the kit not being proper for a vampire themed frame either? You were mighty mad several posts back where you thought it was bad the vamp theme had been based around "1800's" was it?

Yes we do know that, it is in the story about the Unum. It never had a chance to taste the Kuva, it never got into cetus. It had destroyed several other towers previous to that. But I guess there was no Unum in those nor any Kuva.

Nope, impossible that the Titania was a prime, because primes arent automated while the Titania acted on her own. All primes require a tenno, it is the whole point of the primes in order to remove the issues with several gen 1. And Titania killing the Dax happened at a time long before the collapse and the tenno betrayal.

The reason he was called vlad was because Rebecca decide she wanted him to be a vampire despite his concept literally being called Eidolon Frame.

I haven’t said anything about it not being proper vampire abilities. In fact I actively hate having to describe to people that the abilities are in fact vampire themed just to get to the point of “vampire powers shouldn’t being an a Warframe that has nothing to do with vampires”. I was mad because you were acting like just because it was an older style of vampire that suddenly meant all these different terms for undead also meant vampire.

Realized after I said it that it was probably there to destroy the tower until it tasted Kuva and was like “I want to become the tower”.

Well she was the first Titania. And prime frames came first. So naturally that Titania would’ve been a prime frame. 

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The reason he was called vlad was because Rebecca decide she wanted him to be a vampire despite his concept literally being called Eidolon Frame.

I haven’t said anything about it not being proper vampire abilities. In fact I actively hate having to describe to people that the abilities are in fact vampire themed just to get to the point of “vampire powers shouldn’t being an a Warframe that has nothing to do with vampires”. I was mad because you were acting like just because it was an older style of vampire that suddenly meant all these different terms for undead also meant vampire.

Realized after I said it that it was probably there to destroy the tower until it tasted Kuva and was like “I want to become the tower”.

Well she was the first Titania. And prime frames came first. So naturally that Titania would’ve been a prime frame. 

And in that same devstream the only eidolon intent was that he was going to use that sentient energy. They've never had any indications of altering his kit to be "eidolon themed". Just that he was going to afflict others with the energy that afflicted him. Which is pretty much what he does, channels that energy through his powers to use against his enemies. His concept art at the time was already also refering to him as Revenant.

But I never implied "all these different terms" ment vampire. I used one term and that was revenant and vampires are part of the revenant collection. That was all, then you started to confuse things when I quickly described eidolons as nothing more than zombies.

He went to earth to seek out the towers to gain the kuva, since they were orokin towers and kuva is old orokin "life blood" or something along those lines.

No, primes only came first in the cases where there was no gen 1. A prime requires an operator in order to work, Titania didnt have an operator at the time, since the timeline would make that impossible. They are still in the process of trying to understand transferance when Titania is created. It is what Silvana is actually working on when getting ordered by Ballas to create frames instead.

Edited February 16, 2020 by SneakyErvin

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And in that same devstream the only eidolon intent was that he was going to use that sentient energy. They've never had any indications of altering his kit to be "eidolon themed". Just that he was going to afflict others with the energy that afflicted him. Which is pretty much what he does, channels that energy through his powers to use against his enemies. His concept art at the time was already also refering to him as Revenant.

But I never implied "all these different terms" ment vampire. I used one term and that was revenant and vampires are part of the revenant collection. That was all, then you started to confuse things when I quickly described eidolons as nothing more than zombies.

He went to earth to seek out the towers to gain the kuva, since they were orokin towers and kuva is old orokin "life blood" or something along those lines.

No, primes only came first in the cases where there was no gen 1. A prime requires an operator in order to work, Titania didnt have an operator at the time, since the timeline would make that impossible. They are still in the process of trying to understand transferance when Titania is created. It is what Silvana is actually working on when getting ordered by Ballas to create frames instead.

Rebecca tweeted after the stream that it was Steve’s first time seeing Revenant and that he wanted the frame to be more Eidolon like. Because you know, it looks like an Eidolon, it should probably play like one.

You went into multiple explainations of “oh well nobody in the 1700s could tell a ghoul from a vampire, and ghouls are qualified as multiple different undead things, so being undead immediately makes Revenant vampire theme justified”.
 

The story implies the Sentient wasn’t aware of the Kuva until it tasted it.
 

We’re getting Titania prime in a month. Her prime existed. So it’s only logical that first Titania created was a prime. IDK what “oh they needed transference so that makes it illogical”. Every frame that’s not Umbra requires transference.

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Rebecca tweeted after the stream that it was Steve’s first time seeing Revenant and that he wanted the frame to be more Eidolon like. Because you know, it looks like an Eidolon, it should probably play like one.

You went into multiple explainations of “oh well nobody in the 1700s could tell a ghoul from a vampire, and ghouls are qualified as multiple different undead things, so being undead immediately makes Revenant vampire theme justified”.
 

The story implies the Sentient wasn’t aware of the Kuva until it tasted it.
 

We’re getting Titania prime in a month. Her prime existed. So it’s only logical that first Titania created was a prime. IDK what “oh they needed transference so that makes it illogical”. Every frame that’s not Umbra requires transference.

I'm honestly really trying to find what "looks like and Eidolon" on Rev. He looks like a broken possessed suit of armor. What part of the look does he share with eidolons that more resemble ents? The only thing is his tentacle/crystaline looking thing on the shoulder when he uses Mesmer Skin. Eidolons arent oozing with energy like that which flows through/out off Rev.

Uh no I didnt. I said that in certain parts of the world the vampire is more or less the same as a ghoul, living in graveyards and eating the dead. Those are the original vampires from the region where the word vampire first became a thing i.e the slavic regions of europe. Go do some reading about vampires, stories that arent just about Dracula, Bella or Edward, you know, actual lore.

Yes and? He never tasted the Kuva on earth, he never breached Cetus. He attacked earth because it had Orokin towers that likely had kuva in them.

No lol, not every frame requires transferance. Have you not read the origin story or followed any piece of the vitruvian during your gameplay? Gen 1 frames had no transferance, they were living beings acting on their own. Those are not the primes, the primes were those built after that to remove the possible psychosis of the hosts by introducing dormant host mass. You can even read about the accidents that happened while trying to move over to primes in the Rhino Prime entry. Titania Prime got built in the prime project after the gen 1 Titania disappeared and died on earth while protecting her maker.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

On 2020-02-17 at 7:52 AM, SneakyErvin said:

I'm honestly really trying to find what "looks like and Eidolon" on Rev. He looks like a broken possessed suit of armor. What part of the look does he share with eidolons that more resemble ents? The only thing is his tentacle/crystaline looking thing on the shoulder when he uses Mesmer Skin. Eidolons arent oozing with energy like that which flows through/out off Rev.

Uh no I didnt. I said that in certain parts of the world the vampire is more or less the same as a ghoul, living in graveyards and eating the dead. Those are the original vampires from the region where the word vampire first became a thing i.e the slavic regions of europe. Go do some reading about vampires, stories that arent just about Dracula, Bella or Edward, you know, actual lore.

Yes and? He never tasted the Kuva on earth, he never breached Cetus. He attacked earth because it had Orokin towers that likely had kuva in them.

No lol, not every frame requires transferance. Have you not read the origin story or followed any piece of the vitruvian during your gameplay? Gen 1 frames had no transferance, they were living beings acting on their own. Those are not the primes, the primes were those built after that to remove the possible psychosis of the hosts by introducing dormant host mass. You can even read about the accidents that happened while trying to move over to primes in the Rhino Prime entry. Titania Prime got built in the prime project after the gen 1 Titania disappeared and died on earth while protecting her maker.

His head looks like the big ridge above the Eidolons head and the fire beard is repressive of the glowing root’s coming out of the Eidolons head. I want to know how you can look at him an think “Yeah, that’s a vampire”.

You’re still saying that anything undead is a vampire. And his development name was ‘Vlad’ implying that his abilities were based off Dracula, which was where vampires were made very distinct from any other undead creature. So you can’t use “Well undead so vampire”.

Just saying. The giant sentient isn’t a vampire. I’d more than likely confuse it for Cthulhu or and Aboleth.

Ok so then, if your argument on that holds true we should be getting Revenant Umbras blueprint from his quest.

Edited February 18, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[beol]

Disco Dervish Sentient Vampire.

What's the problem?

I mean .. isn't that a reasonable archetype? 

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

His head looks like the big ridge above the Eidolons head and the fire beard is repressive of the glowing roofing’s coming out of the Eidolons head. I want to know how you can look at him an think “Yeah, that’s a vampire”.

You’re still saying that anything undead is a vampire. And his development name was ‘Vlad’ implying that his abilities were based off Dracula, which was where vampires were made very distinct from any other undead creature. So you can’t use “Well undead so vampire”.

Just saying. The giant sentient isn’t a vampire. I’d more than likely confuse it for Cthulhu or and Aboleth.

Ok so then, if your argument on that holds true we should be getting Revenant Umbras blueprint from his quest.

What ridge above their head? They have a long alien like head, that "ridge" is their head. They may look similar, the beard and the tentacles, but they arent at all the same concept. The beard is spectral, the tentacles are actual physical extremeties. And no. As I said, Rev looks like a broken possessed suit of armor. The only part of him resembling a campire is his open chest area, which resembles an open mouth/face with fangs.

Wasnt it you who previously said the name doesnt matter for the theme? Oh yes it was, but now all of a sudden the name, which was placeholder and an internal name should be the full basis for the theme? Yet they mentioned him being inspired by eidolons and revenants in that very devstream. While also showing a concept art saying "Eidolon warframe "Revenant"" in that stream. And no, Vlad did not make vampires distinct from other undead creatures, vampires were already a distinct group with several types within it while also being classified as revenants. Vlad, or well the interpretation by Bram Stoker made that romantic type of vampire famous.

No, he was uhm... well... a sentient. Or are you now looking at the whole "tentacle" thing from the Rev story? Yeah that wasnt the sentient that attacked cetus, that was one of the 3 eidolons that were described like that by the earthlings. And that story is very Lovecraftian since it has the whole water theme going for it and all. The massive sentient was something similar to the ship in Veil, which can even be seen if you look at all the fragments of it across the plains.

No, because Umbras are very specific and not a straight up mark type. Excal Umbra isnt the same as the gen-1 excal, Umbra happened somewhere during the Old War as a specific punishment. And as Corvid pointed out, it isnt 100% known if all frames have a gen-1 version. So the initial Rev may have well been a Prime, but it was not the prime that was on earth and even if it was it would have no impact on the primes we find later on from orokin relics. Because each and every relic was sealed back during the orokin empire which happened long before anything went down on earth.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

11 hours ago, beol said:

Disco Dervish Sentient Vampire.

What's the problem?

I mean .. isn't that a reasonable archetype? 

No, what do Sentients have to do with vampires? What do vampires have to do with lasers? 

Edited February 18, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(NSW)Austee]

On 2020-02-17 at 8:52 AM, SneakyErvin said:

Yes and? He never tasted the Kuva on earth, he never breached Cetus. He attacked earth because it had Orokin towers that likely had kuva in them.

He actually did taste the Kuva on earth. 

But he didn’t know about the Kuva. It explains it well in “The Glass Warrior” codex and the “The Night in Cetus” codex. 
 

The codex go to say that The sentient, even though destroying many towers, it never fought to hard because it could not regenerate nor reproduce, it was always cautious in its attacks.
 

The Unum gave its followers Kuva, and the followers gave the Kuva to animals so that they could find where the sentient hid. It says that the sentient could sense this subterfuge and that it captured one of these animals and examined it. And from what little Unam was in that animal the sentient could sense the Kuva and then realized that the Kuva could heal itself and felt more for the future then ever. It says it captured and ate all the unams animals that had the Kuva but that it wasn’t enough so it ramped up its attacks holding nothing back. 
 

It then says that the sentient started to fight harder then it ever did almost rather careless because it knew if it captured the tower then the sentient could replace itself a thousand fold. It was no longer cautious. And it was only no longer cautious because he discovered the Kuva for the first time.  
 

I believe they make it pretty clear the sentients did not know about Kuva and didn’t know it could heal them and allow them to reproduce. Let alone being sent to earth specifically for Kuva.  

Edited February 19, 2020 by (NSW)Austee

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

34 minutes ago, realmzjetter said:

Khoras theme is binding and BDSM which goes well with her spider motif. The cat makes no #*!%ing sense. 

Khora has no definitive theme. Any theme was going to receive was lost when they had to rework her halfway through development. Fans dubbed her the “BDSM” frame, but it’s not her official theme.

[SneakyErvin]

47 minutes ago, (NSW)Austee said:

He actually did taste the Kuva on earth. 

True. Missed that part of the fragments regarding the animals and the temple kuva.

[SneakyErvin]

46 minutes ago, realmzjetter said:

Khoras theme is binding and BDSM which goes well with her spider motif. The cat makes no #*!%ing sense. 

The cat has always been there though. It is more that the BDSM feel got added later. Though all in all she comes off as a beastmaster with her whip, snares, pet and cages. A beastmaster just has close ties to a dominatrix, they are both focused on subjugation of their subject.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

On 2020-02-18 at 7:21 AM, SneakyErvin said:

What ridge above their head? They have a long alien like head, that "ridge" is their head. They may look similar, the beard and the tentacles, but they arent at all the same concept. The beard is spectral, the tentacles are actual physical extremeties. And no. As I said, Rev looks like a broken possessed suit of armor. The only part of him resembling a campire is his open chest area, which resembles an open mouth/face with fangs.

Wasnt it you who previously said the name doesnt matter for the theme? Oh yes it was, but now all of a sudden the name, which was placeholder and an internal name should be the full basis for the theme? Yet they mentioned him being inspired by eidolons and revenants in that very devstream. While also showing a concept art saying "Eidolon warframe "Revenant"" in that stream. And no, Vlad did not make vampires distinct from other undead creatures, vampires were already a distinct group with several types within it while also being classified as revenants. Vlad, or well the interpretation by Bram Stoker made that romantic type of vampire famous.

No, he was uhm... well... a sentient. Or are you now looking at the whole "tentacle" thing from the Rev story? Yeah that wasnt the sentient that attacked cetus, that was one of the 3 eidolons that were described like that by the earthlings. And that story is very Lovecraftian since it has the whole water theme going for it and all. The massive sentient was something similar to the ship in Veil, which can even be seen if you look at all the fragments of it across the plains.

No, because Umbras are very specific and not a straight up mark type. Excal Umbra isnt the same as the gen-1 excal, Umbra happened somewhere during the Old War as a specific punishment. And as Corvid pointed out, it isnt 100% known if all frames have a gen-1 version. So the initial Rev may have well been a Prime, but it was not the prime that was on earth and even if it was it would have no impact on the primes we find later on from orokin relics. Because each and every relic was sealed back during the orokin empire which happened long before anything went down on earth.

Their head is that disc with the roots growing out of the bottom. And there’s the big horn like ridge thing above that. His chest looks nothing like a mouth. And that’s a very weird claim to make because his design was clearly never intended for a vampire frame. 

There’s a difference between the development name and the official name. Gauss was called ‘running man’ for example. You can gain certain evidence of what the frames theme is based off their name, but taking it 100% literally like you do is dumb.

There was only one giant sentient that Gara defenses the tower from.

I still don’t see how that’s concrete evidence that Revenant shouldn’t be Eidolon themed. DE has proven before that they’ll break the lore to give us a prime version of a frame with Valkyr.

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Their head is that disc with the roots growing out of the bottom. And there’s the big horn like ridge thing above that. His chest looks nothing like a mouth. And that’s a very weird claim to make because his design was clearly never intended for a vampire frame. 

There’s a difference between the development name and the official name. Gauss was called ‘running man’ for example. You can gain certain evidence of what the frames theme is based off their name, but taking it 100% literally like you do is dumb.

There was only one giant sentient that Gara defenses the tower from.

I still don’t see how that’s concrete evidence that Revenant shouldn’t be Eidolon themed. DE has proven before that they’ll break the lore to give us a prime version of a frame with Valkyr.

Then why do we shoot the ridge and get a headshot bonus? And even then, the ridge looks nothing like either of revs heads. The ridge come up from the back and goes over the jellyfish "head". Revs heads has the shape of a high helmet, or a pointy white-clad-redneck type of hood. To me his chest looks like an open mouth. I'm not saying it is the intent of it. I also see two naked boobs on Mirage's Trivelin helmet, I doubt that is the intended thing we're supposed to see.

I dont take it 100% litterally. You however seem to do when it fits, like in this case. I'm going more on what they've said the theme to be. As in their devstream stating specifically that he would be themed around eidolons and revenants.

Yes and when did I imply something else? I didnt. I just disagreed that the description of the massive sentient seems lovecraftian but that the eidolons have more of that inspiration.

But Valkyr is a thing for interpretation and in a far more loose situation. There is nothing specific that states she was changed besides mentally. We dont get a specific blueprint from fighting Alad, we get the main blueprint from the market. So we use a normal run of the mill tenno blueprint with harvested components from Jupiter. I'm having a really hard time seeing how people interpret the valkyr story as they do. I think they take the wording "original" way too literally, when it can really mean anything from "the first" to "what was before the torture". It is like making a custom car, the original may have been a ford model X, that doesnt mean that specific was the original ford ever made, just that it was an original ford model prior to being customized. So there really is nothing saying that Gersemi was the absolutely first valkyr either, just one model, with a specific skin that became the "original" that was tortured and discarded.