Valence Fusion DOESN'T CARRY OVER FORMA INVESTMENTS

[Ham_Grenabe]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)de_sch0sch said:

Stupidity deserves requires punishment.

But eventually, for the sake of your own sanity and your OSHA evaluations, you put in guardrails and safety lockouts. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

Is this going to be the new "the game should tell me to go practice the current MR test with Simaris every time I attempt to take it"/"the game should warn me before I purchase items from the market or rush, and I should have to agree to doing that thing"/"before completing player trades I should be informed of what I'm getting, and agree to complete the trade so that I don't get scammed"? 

Some people are just oblivious and will always refuse to accept the consequences of their own actions. 

[Reifnir]

1) They need to phrase it better. Like, "This will destroy Kuva Weapon 2 and any upgrades it has, fusing only the innate elemental bonus". This thread being here is enough proof that it's NOT clear how it's presented in game. 

2) They need a proper interface for this. Not just "click weapon 1, click weapon 2, make sure you remember which is which between identical weapon names and a gibberish lich name prefix". Like, a BIG shiny slot for weapon that is being upgraded and a smaller sacrificial weapon slot with easy-to-read visuals indicating that placing stuff here WILL GET IT DESTROYED. 

What we have now is a slapdash solution which can serve as a placeholder, at best. 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Yeah this whole thing is ops fault. Just did a transfer and all forma intact, probably selected the wrong weapon to transfer.

[(PSN)Navalhabr]

Before:

Transfer = new DMG type + new DMG %

Now:

Transfer = new DMG type + (CURRENT DMG %  + Additional %)

 

Forma and Catalyst were never transferred.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tsukinoki]

Just now, (PS4)Navalhabr said:

Now:

Transfer = new DMG type + (CURRENT DMG %  + Additional %)

Actually its:
Transfer = new DMG type + ( Higher of two damage% * 1.1 )

For example fusing a 30% weapon with a 26% weapon gets you a 33% damage boost.
Fusing a 40% weapon with a 26% weapon gets you a 44% damage boost.
etc.

You are guaranteed a 10% growth on the higher of the two damage bonuses, minimum.
This means that even if you have the absolute worst luck ever it'll only take 12 of the same weapon to go to a 60% bonus.

[(PSN)Navalhabr]

1 minute ago, Tsukinoki said:

Actually its:
Transfer = new DMG type + ( Higher of two damage% * 1.1 )

Yes, you are right. I was just being lazy. Thanks for the INFO!

[Julia_af_Scaniae]

3 hours ago, (PS4)de_sch0sch said:

Stupidity deserves requires punishment.

This doesn't tell me I would lose all forma and catalyst. It tells me I would lose that specific gun and why would I think I would lose all forma when I didn't do that the last time I FUSED a weapon.

 

[HugintheCrow]

1 hour ago, Julia_af_Scaniae said:

This doesn't tell me I would lose all forma and catalyst. It tells me I would lose that specific gun and why would I think I would lose all forma when I didn't do that the last time I FUSED a weapon.

 

It literally does say everything on the very picture you used. Why do you think it mentions the amount of forma on the gun, huh?

[SQLOwns]

12 hours ago, veryhighcholesterol said:

A system that punishes players for fusing in the wrong direction is a bad system. Last time I checked, 2+2=4, not 2+2=0, which is currently what happens if you picked the wrong gun. Players shouldn't be punished for fusing guns in this manner. 0 forma gun + 5 forma gun should always = 5 forma gun with the boosted element. This is an extremely short sighted tragedy of game design.

Your solution is equally shortsighted.  What if I wanted to keep the 0 forma gun?  You should simple be able to choose which weapon to keep.  🙂

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

1 hour ago, Julia_af_Scaniae said:

This doesn't tell me I would lose all forma and catalyst. It tells me I would lose that specific gun and why would I think I would lose all forma when I didn't do that the last time I FUSED a weapon.

It literally says it will consume the weapon with the forma. Valence is fusion is for the bonus stats where in the description it says that it transfers forma? 

Why is it hard for people to comprehend that you select the weapon with all the stuff invested first then select the junk to fuse.

[Tsukinoki]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

It literally says it will consume the weapon with the forma. Valence is fusion is for the bonus stats where in the description it says that it transfers forma? 

Why is it hard for people to comprehend that you select the weapon with all the stuff invested first then select the junk to fuse.

To add onto this:
NO other system in the game works to keep the forma/potatoes of "consumed" gear.

Take for instance using a weapon to craft another weapon (such as Aklex, or Redeemer, or akjagara).  You lose all investment put into the gear that is consumed and get nothing back.

If anything DE has remained fairly consistent in what it means, and the consequences for, consuming a piece of gear into another piece of gear.

[Rawbeard]

12 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

If it was accessible as a popup right there we wouldn't be here.

it is, yet here we are.

[IIDMOII]

On 2020-02-06 at 2:59 AM, Scandroid said:

literally writtent under the valance fusion changes on the patchnotes It matters which order you Valence Fuse them in. The weapon that you START from, the one where you click "Actions", is the one that will be kept with its investments.

try reading next time on how it actualy works

Here's a novel idea.

Make it clear in the UI. In The actual game?

Try proper game development next time ya goof. 

The hover overs and nested "i" icons are terrible.

If you have to rely on patch notes to communicate game systems, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Hyro1]

On 2020-02-06 at 6:39 PM, IIDMOII said:

Here's a novel idea.

Make it clear in the UI. In The actual game.

Try proper game development next time ya goof. 

The hover overs and nested "i" icons are terrible.

If you have to rely on patch notes to communicate game systems, you're doing it wrong.

 

Maybe you should read the whole post, cause its been shown several times that in game it does state the forma and the weapon will be used during the transfer

[Tsukinoki]

On 2020-02-06 at 6:39 PM, IIDMOII said:

Here's a novel idea.

Make it clear in the UI. In The actual game.

Try proper game development next time ya goof. 

The hover overs and nested "i" icons are terrible.

If you have to rely on patch notes to communicate game systems, you're doing it wrong.

Except that it does tell you.  Clearly.  In the UI.  In the actual game.

It tells you in no uncertain terms "This gear (with forma count) is going to be consumed."
It even makes you type in a word instead of just being able to hit an accept button to blindly click past the screen.

And in this game when you "consume" gear it has only ever meant one thing: that you lose everything you put into the consumed gear!
That has been consistent throughout the entire game.  If you consume gear to craft other gear you lose all investment.  If you consume gear for valiance fusion you lose all investment.

The gun you select second is consumed.  Its gone, as is everything you put in it.
The UI spells that right out and makes you type in "TRANSFER" so that you have to interact with the dialog beyond just clicking a single button.

Nothing here is relying on patch notes.
Its clearly in the game.

Hek, its clearer when you do valiance fusion than if you construct weapons what will happen....and I don't see everyone jumping up and yelling and whinging that when you make an Aklex out of a formaed and potatoed lex that you lose the forma and potatoes you put into the lex....

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

56 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

it is, yet here we are.

Eh I can admit when I'm wrong and it does say that from the screenshot someone posted it does. Haven't played since the start of this year. And from the responses originally I assumed it was just typical arsehattery on the forums. But I stand corrected. 

[KnossosTNC]

I'm starting to think Pablo was right; nobody reads the dialogue boxes.

[Diavoros]

The first weapon you select is the one that is target for the "upgrade" and the second is the one you use as "sacrifice" for the upgrade. There are several games that allow to upgrade a weapon by using another of the same type as fodder, that's pretty simple to understand. 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

5 hours ago, DeerioJim said:

Yeah I think OP could've read the confirmation dialog a bit more clearly. 
But at the same time the confirmation text isnt super clear on what it means, I can see it being confusing for people who doesnt have english as their first language. 

However you want to look at it (idiot-proofing, removing the option) You shouldn’t EVER be able to consume a Forma’d weapon with a new weapon.

[HugintheCrow]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

However you want to look at it (idiot-proofing, removing the option) You shouldn’t EVER be able to consume a Forma’d weapon with a new weapon.

Tell that to these weapons: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Weapons_Required_as_Crafting_Ingredients

[xcrimsonlegendx]

3 hours ago, Julia_af_Scaniae said:

This doesn't tell me I would lose all forma and catalyst. It tells me I would lose that specific gun and why would I think I would lose all forma when I didn't do that the last time I FUSED a weapon.

 

Yes it does. Its telling you that the Hind with 1 forma will be consumed and the process is irreversible, then it makes you CONFIRM the decision by typing in transfer as an extra layer of warning.

[Krenlik]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

However you want to look at it (idiot-proofing, removing the option) You shouldn’t EVER be able to consume a Forma’d weapon with a new weapon.

 

So, if you get a new 50% bonus weapon, but already have a 1 forma 26% weapon the 1 forma weapon is useless to you?     Under your scenario you'd be forced to junk the 50% one and keep building the 26%

 

[Ham_Grenabe]

1 hour ago, KnossosTNC said:

I'm starting to think Pablo was right; nobody reads the dialogue boxes.

Nobody reads dialog boxes. It's not just a Warframe thing.

That's why you build in the restrictions and preventions so that your users can't screw it up. Users destroying their data is a problem the devs should be taking steps to prevent, because it will become a problem for them: customer anger, loss of goodwill, and support ticket spikes. So, you make it so the user can't break it.

DE could, and most certainly should, do one of two things: 

1. Code it to save your investment no matter what order it goes in - genuinely fuses the best parts of each item. 

2. Code it to prevent you from consuming a gun that has gained any affinity, has had a catalyst applied, or has had a forma applied. Just flat out "No you can't do that."

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On 2020-02-06 at 8:22 PM, Krenlik said:

 

So, if you get a new 50% bonus weapon, but already have a 1 forma 26% weapon the 1 forma weapon is useless to you?     Under your scenario you'd be forced to junk the 50% one and keep building the 26%

 

NO, you keep the Forma upon fusion.  That’s what DE should do here.

On 2020-02-06 at 7:25 PM, HugintheCrow said:

Tell that to these weapons: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Weapons_Required_as_Crafting_Ingredients

Oh COME ON.  I’m talking same weapon type and you know it.  If you’ve got a 5-Forma weapon you like and don’t want to use it as a component to build another, DIFFERENT weapon, simply rebuild a second, new one sans forma...😑

 

On 2020-02-06 at 8:35 PM, Ham_Grenabe said:

Nobody reads dialog boxes. It's not just a Warframe thing.

That's why you build in the restrictions and preventions so that your users can't screw it up. Users destroying their data is a problem the devs should be taking steps to prevent, because it will become a problem for them: customer anger, loss of goodwill, and support ticket spikes. So, you make it so the user can't break it.

DE could, and most certainly should, do one of two things: 

1. Code it to save your investment no matter what order it goes in - genuinely fuses the best parts of each item. 

2. Code it to prevent you from consuming a gun that has gained any affinity, has had a catalyst applied, or has had a forma applied. Just flat out "No you can't do that."

 

This is my stance totally.  I get you now, Ham.  You got me on that previous post 😏.