Valence Fusion DOESN'T CARRY OVER FORMA INVESTMENTS

[Antris]

13 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Answered 18hrs in advance it looks like? 👍

 

When one assumption is based on what you have observed in the past regarding consuming items as raw materials, and the other is based solely on wishful thinking, which do you think is the safer assumption?

I think making an assumption, even if an informed one, is a slippery slope for a menu design.

At the very least making the text/system more clear, only improves the game.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Antris

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

18 hours ago, Antris said:

I think making an assumption, even if an informed one, is a slippery slope for a menu design.

At the very least making the text/system more clear, only improves the game.

Sounds like you're making an assumption about menu design. 

 

The difference between us is that I'm (for some reason) unwilling to believe that the world is populated only by oblivious people who are unable to pay attention to what is going on and apply a modicum of common sense. 

[RX-3DR]

On 2020-02-09 at 7:14 AM, Antris said:

I think making an assumption, even if an informed one, is a slippery slope for a menu design.

At the very least making the text/system more clear, only improves the game.

So basically,

Quote

Would you like to sell the following items?

• Rank 30 Strun

Quote

If you sell this item,

• You will no longer be able to use this copy of the item.
• You will keep the item slot that is used for this weapon.
• You will keep any mastery rank XP earned from this item.
• You will keep any statistics tied to this weapon in your profile.
• You will lose all affinity and ranks on this copy of the weapon.
• You will lose all loadouts and mod configuration set for the copy of this weapon.
• You will not receive the Orokin Catalyst used on this item.
• You will not receive the Exilus Adapter used on this item.
• You will not receive any Forma used on this item.
• You will not lose any mods equipped on this weapon.

When obtaining this weapon in the future,

• You will not be able to earn additional Mastery Rank XP that was already earned with this copy of the weapon.
• You will receive a new copy without an Orokin Catalyst unless bought with Platinum.
• You will receive a new copy without an Exilus Adapter.
• You will receive a new copy without any Forma.
• You will receive a new copy that is unranked.
• Your previous mod configuration and loadouts will not be applied to the new copy.
• You are not eligible for any additional discount or reduction in crafting cost.

CONFIRM                    CANCEL

Sounds like a great prompt box for every single action in the game. If I missed out any specific detail or if any detail can be misinterpreted, that's another new thread complaining about how the system needs to be explained more clearly and people coming in saying that the UI needs to be even more detailed and clearer.

If a person doesn't understand the term being used but still hits the confirm button, the responsibility and consequence of it rests entirely on him, especially since it isn't maliciously worded to trick players in the first place. It also wouldn't make a difference with people who skipped the explanations and demand that the game is in the wrong. This thread would still exist because it falls into either of these two categories, which means we will eventually need 1 massive page of explanation, a video guide, an interactive tutorial and a quiz that requires a 100% score to use Valence Transfers.

[Tsukinoki]

2 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

If a person doesn't understand the term being used but still hits the confirm button, the responsibility and consequence of it rests entirely on him, especially since it isn't maliciously worded to trick players in the first place. It also wouldn't make a difference with people who skipped the explanations and demand that the game is in the wrong. This thread would still exist because it falls into either of these two categories, which means we will eventually need 1 massive page of explanation, a video guide, an interactive tutorial and a quiz that requires a 100% score to use Valence Transfers.

Exactly this.
And sadly at the end of all of those actions you would still have people complaining that the game didn't properly warn them.
Hek it happens all the time in games that show a line by line "Here is what your combining, here is the end result", where players will complain that the game didn't properly communicate or warn them of what would happen.

It doesn't matter if you have 5 confirmation boxes that asks "Are you sure?" in various ways and explains it every step, people will still yell "BUT I DIDN'T MEAN TO!!! I WAS JUST CLICKING THROUGH BECAUSE THE GAME HAS TOO MANY CONFIRMATION BOXES!"
And I can promise you that if DE goes the route that this thread is demanding and adds a ton of confirmation boxes that people will complain that there are too many, and that they aren't reading them because there are too many, or that they are too long (I have seen way too many complaints from various programs/sites/tools that there was too much information so they just clicked instead of reading it because they were in a rush)

As a designer of web pages I have had similar complaints from users around a delete option.  When you click the option it clearly lists out what is going to happen and that it can't be undone...and I still get at least 2 complaints per week of "I deleted this but I didn't mean to!" and they act like its the programs fault even though they didn't read what was stated clearly directly to them.

And I'm surprised by these threads that users haven't been complaining that if they use a potatoed/formaed Lex to build an AkLex that they lose the potatoes and formas.  After all the game doesn't even attempt to warn you about that action and what its consequences will be.

[Zammara]

22 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

(snip)

It doesn't matter if you have 5 confirmation boxes that asks "Are you sure?" in various ways and explains it every step, people will still yell "BUT I DIDN'T MEAN TO!!! I WAS JUST CLICKING THROUGH BECAUSE THE GAME HAS TOO MANY CONFIRMATION BOXES!"
And I can promise you that if DE goes the route that this thread is demanding and adds a ton of confirmation boxes that people will complain that there are too many, and that they aren't reading them because there are too many, or that they are too long

(snip)

Oh god the nightmare! The recent complains about the valence and creation of liches seems all to boil down to: lack of attention. People want to rush through everything all the time, how will more confirmation boxes help with that? They'll claim just the same as you said!! "It had too many, pressed without thinking" and will cry about not having another security system against themselves!

I know how awful it can be to want that shiny 60% weapon tomorrow, and larvlings won't give you the correct weapon, when it finally happens all you want is to get rid of the lich asap to start the fusion and go again to hunt another of the same weapon because "oh god it's missing 3%".

But honestly if we get at the point of not even knowing what we're doing anymore, at becoming bored and angry with the entertainment, well, to me that's a sign to do something else for a bit and come back refreshed to continue the hunt. But that's just my 2 cents.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

There's obviously room for improvement in this game's UI. Many screens that ask you a question for confirmation do not present the information you are confirming. There's no "double check" opportunity. You just have to remember what you were doing, but to double check, you have to completely back out and start again.

Are you sure? Hmm... let me look back through my perfect memory and confirm that I hit exactly what I wanted to hit, instead of you telling me what you heard me ask you to do... and let me confirm that you're using the pieces that I wanted to use, and that I actually hit the right spot on the screen, and not the edge of the slot next to it by mistake.

A clear confirmation screen would present you with all the information you need to complete that confirmation without any question, confident that you've done what you want to do. Text is hardly ever good for a confirmation screen. I want to see the results before I hit the button. I want to see the slot that's changing when I put forma in, not have the whole screen blocked off by a confirmation screen asking me if I really want to do that.... when I can't even see the mods and stuff in the setup to double check. I want to see the donor valence item with an arrow into the "good" valence item, and another arrow pointing to the results, and show that the valence numbers are moving to the right, and added together, and the original forma values, in case the one you put in the donor slot has forma... and when it all gets shown moving to the right, the forma has a red x by it, indicating it's gone... and the "good" valence item, as well as the resulting item would have the same number of forma shown, with the valence numbers changing.

I'm sorry some people are jaded or want others to have more "common sense"... but the UI does need work. And it's not all the fault of these people.

 

 

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

2 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

You just have to remember what you were doing, but to double check, you have to completely back out and start again.

Are you sure? Hmm... let me look back through my perfect memory

What are some actions in this game that require anything more than 4 seconds of memory?

[DogsConkers]

I have also done this - bye bye 5 x forma. Didn't realise there was a 'right-way-round'.

Hope that weapon doesn't become meta because if it does, I'll need to throw another 5 forma at it.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

It's not just a matter of memory... but confirming that you selected the correct things. The biggest that comes to mind is forma'ing stuff...for me, it's almost always a matter of backing out and re-doing it if I have even the slightest hint of a doubt that I either put it in the wrong slot, or selected the wrong symbol (or could I have selected the Umbra Forma by mistake? It's right next to the other, with very little blank space between the icons...)

For things like Valence Transfer an absolutely horrible amount of work can be thrown down the garbage chute with a simple confirmation screen, and the very presence of this thread shows that the current UI isn't as good as it could be.

 

[RX-3DR]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

It's not just a matter of memory... but confirming that you selected the correct things. The biggest that comes to mind is forma'ing stuff...for me, it's almost always a matter of backing out and re-doing it if I have even the slightest hint of a doubt that I either put it in the wrong slot, or selected the wrong symbol (or could I have selected the Umbra Forma by mistake? It's right next to the other, with very little blank space between the icons...)

For things like Valence Transfer an absolutely horrible amount of work can be thrown down the garbage chute with a simple confirmation screen, and the very presence of this thread shows that the current UI isn't as good as it could be.

What's stopping you from double checking your action before you reach the confirmation dialog? If you're having second doubts and you're backing off of a confirmation dialog, that dialog is doing it's job right. The second time you've gone through the process, you would be more aware of what you are doing, as opposed to eventually pushing that carelessness to the confirmation dialog where you might accidentally hit the wrong button. The game already gives you a prompt with Forma type that you are about to use as well.

Also, for Valence Transfers, the confirmation requires you to type the word transfer, it is not a simple confirmation screen. It leads the error down to 2 possible routes, you failed to understand what you were doing, or you refused read the prompt and skipped to the last step of typing in transfer.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

IMO, the Valence Transfer confirmation text is open to misinterpretation. Whether it's super clear to you or not, enough people will read it differently, that it makes it an unclear confirmation that will lead to people making mistakes. (it's already happened, and will happen in the future.)

Some obvious changes and polish are what I'd add to make it more clear so mistakes would be few and far between compared to now. (an actual UI screen as I've described with the donor weapon, the keeper weapon, and the results, all on screen, so you can confirm that ... yes, that's what I want to see happen. Rather than a text'y confirmation box that kinda sorta describes what's about to happen if you type Transfer.)

 

Edit: And I'm saying both the Forma confirmation and the Valence confirmations are both woefully inadequate for the importance of the actions. (among others, but I'm at work, and it's not really my job to go through their UI to fix it... when I encounter it, I might suggest changes, as a player, though.)

Edited February 10, 2020 by (PS4)AyinDygra

[Sorrode]

So I had a radiation kuva quartakk with 5 forma from pre-update, and another toxic one, so I want the radiation, obviously, that's why I put the forma onto it, and I need to pick it as the donor to keep the radiation, ok, and I did that, AND IT ATE ALL 5 OF MY FORMA??????????????????????????????????????????

[Asphyxxia]

The donor weapon gets eater. Donor, by medical definition is "a person or animal providing blood, an organ, bone marrow cells, or other biological tissue for transfusion or transplantation." I'm pretty sure you know how donations work. It's on you, not the system.

[Sorrode]

3 minutes ago, Asphyxxia said:

The donor weapon gets eater. Donor, by medical definition is "a person or animal providing blood, an organ, bone marrow cells, or other biological tissue for transfusion or transplantation." I'm pretty sure you know how donations work. It's on you, not the system.

But why the **** it is the donar's element that gets remains it is obviously flawed

[-THT-DeathAngel]

happened to my husband first so i didn't make this mistake trying to keep the damage type you want. seems very wrong for this to even be possible please fix de

Edited February 16, 2020 by -THT-DeathAngel

[-THT-Sariel]

Made this mistake also and was told to get stuffed by support. I don't think this should be possible. To loose loose everything during a fusion and have it be unrecoverable. Seems like a programming error so just return both weapons to all that made this mistake. Problem solved. Fix this soon DE

[844448]

Do we really need this kind of warning screen??

[hendrix923]

The valence system still needs a lot of work but yeah, clearly warns u what ur about to lose. 

[Squidfest]

So this morning I took down a Lich with a higher percent of damage on a different element. I had one Rank 40 Radiation Kuva Chakkurr with 25% and one unranked Fire Kuva Chakkurr with 33%. So I went to "fuse" them to find out that it would, in fact, give me around a +12% increase as opposed to the 33% I had thought it would. So I said "well, that's disappointing" but then I also read that it would turn my Radiation bonus into a Heat bonus. Well, that wouldn't do, I wanted radiation! So I swapped the order.

What happened? Oh, I got my buffed +12% damage alright.

The downside was the loss of five Forma and a Catalyst.

Yes, that's right. Valence "Fusion" doesn't preserve the highest amount of Forma of the two guns. So let's say that a Lich spawns with a Kuva Chakkurr with a +55% Magnetic bonus. Great, but I don't want that in magnetic damage. Well, too bad: your choice is either gain a FRACTION of the new gun's power and swap entirely to that damage type, or CONSUME ALL YOUR BONUSES and start over with a slightly-buffed version of your original weapon's damage.

My question is... WHY?!

It's not "fusing" anything! It's just the old system with a new name! I just lost a gun I spent HOURS leveling and for what? 12% more elemental damage?!

TL;DR: The Kuva Lich weapon system confused me and it cost me a favorite weapon. RIP 130+ levels of affinity grinding...

[Tsukinoki]

Seriously people, how hard is it to farm weapons in the element you actually want?  Its not like elements are random and there aren't resources to get the full list of what frames give you what elements.  It seriously takes some doing to not only:
A) Not pay attention to what element you want to end with (this part of the system has not changed since inception and it has always been the case of whatever element is the one you consume is the one you keep)
B) Not pay attention to the pop-up

8 hours ago, 844448 said:

Do we really need this kind of warning screen??

I am seriously worried that not even that would be enough and people would still be throwing a fit because they didn't fully understand what was happening unless it was asked 30 different ways with a time delay to clicking yes....

[vomder]

If they weren't making players go through completely unnecessary extra grinding stuff like this never would have been an issue in the first place.