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LoriSei

Leecher's on Railjack

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2 minutes ago, LoriSei said:

The topic is about people who mostly like doing nothing and leech in the game. So ur saying that it's ok for you to keep it that way?

Yes its a game and supposed to be fun w/o any leechers too

No, I'm saying DE needs to instruct players on what a reasonable expectation is.
I suggested Samaris have a training simulation, to rate your performance, and allow players to pick from a pool of capability that they accept.

The game does not require that we are perfect to succeed... but players do. Anything beneath utterly perfect, is, "leeching," to someone.
That is not a standard that we should allow players to indulge at the cost of the enjoyment of other players, who are not concerned with perfection so long as they succeed and have fun.

Players like yourself should be able to pick from perfect players, so that others who are imperfect don't have to be chastised for trying to play a video game.
 

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3 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Bullet Point A: This will make RJ really terrible to play with no cost or refunding if a troll team is on-board (wasting resources for a toxicity standpoint, YES they use their own too, but when you have a tank truck full of them, nothing much to lose for "THAT" player.) 

Bullet Point B: "May" is the key word here, No one will, it's quite asking "Hey random guy/girl, please give this"

Bullet Point (C): Onwers can always troll and lock certrin parts of hte ship cuz it's "MINE, ALL MINE, YOU DON'T GET TO PLAY"

Bullet Point (D): See C.

The function of this is to prevent troll teams, and spiteful owners.

If you have a troll who is wasteful, no one needs to supply them. They can use their own, or get bent. Better they take their own funds, or from someone who approves of their expense, instead of yours by default. Right?

If people cannot use the community pool because a Troll bled it dry, that's why the owner gets a reserve that only they can touch and distribute accordingly.. to not feed the troll, and be able to win the mission despite the trolls best efforts to bankrupt it. You Could have a whole mission's worth of backstock for emergency, to distribute to the players who use it wisely... which would be easy enough to afford if everyone is able to contribute to the costs, rather than just the owner.

Owners who lock down and say, "Mine, all mine!" don't have control over preventing the use of the community pool or a players own assets, which is precisely why I made this plan.

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1 minute ago, kapn655321 said:

The function of this is to prevent troll teams, and spiteful owners.

If you have a troll who is wasteful, no one needs to supply them. They can use their own, or get bent. Better they take their own funds, or from someone who approves of their expense, instead of yours by default. Right?

If people cannot use the community pool because a Troll bled it dry, that's why the owner gets a reserve that only they can touch and distribute accordingly.. to not feed the troll, and be able to win the mission despite the trolls best efforts to bankrupt it. You Could have a whole mission's worth of backstock for emergency, to distribute to the players who use it wisely... which would be easy enough to afford if everyone is able to contribute to the costs, rather than just the owner.

Owners who lock down and say, "Mine, all mine!" don't have control over preventing the use of the community pool or a players own assets, which is precisely why I made this plan.

Ture, but even the most kindest person can have a dark secret

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1 hour ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Ture, but even the most kindest person can have a dark secret

?Good for them?

No one would ever have to donate to the railjack fund if they didn't want to.
...but if you want to, or need to get supplies to someone, you could.

Could also say, "Thanks for the good work," and totally load up someone's supplies before you leave. Like tipping a cab driver.
Perhaps even allow tipping to an owner to decide whether those resources should go to personal reserve or community pool, and in what amounts.

If people never do this, they use their own. If they run out, the owner can choose whether or not to fund them out of their personal reserve.
If people can't use their own, and it becomes a problem, someone else can supply them through the community pool.

Every problem here has a counter measure to prevent it from being a dead-end.
The only way it fails is if Everyone is a broke troll, and the owner doesn't want to cooperate with them..
in which case the failsafe is to set all to ignore and abort mission before it get's out of hand.

Better still, if we Can pick the pool of player experience and effectiveness we wish to have with us, you can prevent this from happening.

Say I want to do a mission with total clueless newbies...
I can fund them a generous amount of resources, but not so much that (if spend unwisely) it can all get used up too early and leave us all screwed.
Having enough in an emergency reserve, I can ration out what is needed to give them the tools to save us, without letting them bankrupting everyone else.

The only way people are learning how to do Railjack right, is by Youtube, Good teachers, or by being yelled at for being a failure in every mission until they figure out what those people mean by that specifically. ...that's why I do not, and will not play it. Not even once, until this whole, "leech vs ubermench," mentality is sorted. If I wanted angry players to decide my fate, I'd play Rust.

Edited by kapn655321

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27 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

I suggested Samaris have a training simulation, to rate your performance, and allow players to pick from a pool of capability that they accept.

So you're saying to divide us into groups. Than individually remove the root of the problem?

 

27 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Players like yourself should be able to pick from perfect players, so that others who are imperfect don't have to be chastised for trying to play a video game.

You see thats how the Warframe Railjack implemented the game. Which is helping and contribute one another.

There's an alternative way to kick them anyways, "Which is by setting a time limit on thier innactivity and automatically dissconnects them in the game" Which is neither of me, or them would manually kick em out of the game.

Why would I go such methods to kick a person out, it's so much effort to do so.

Edited by LoriSei

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12 minutes ago, LoriSei said:

Why would I go such methods to kick a person out, it's so much effort to do so.

Why would anyone? Because they feel someone is stepping on their ambitions being achieved in a way they approve of.

That could mean, someone is totally afk.. or it could mean someone has bad aim and wastes resources.. or it could mean they're a little too slow, or doing the job you want and you take it personal.. or they just have a different approach that (still works, but) you don't like for whatever reason.

It could be, they're a Limbo, and you just want to see Limbos suffer.. who knows?

Rather than picking who you hate, we're better off picking who we like.. if for no other reason, because of how the brain responds to either decision differently.

Picking from a pool of players that sound hopeful to your success, puts you in a more accepting mood. Picking from a random pool of, "potential inept trolls you might despise," is making us turn on one another, and driving expectations out of control.

Edited by kapn655321

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You guys are making a mountain out if a molehill.  There are not enough afk/jerk players out there to justify changes that will negatively influence gameplay in general (wether that is through complexity, or actual punish everyone for the acts of a few).  

I think what you guys are confusing for afk or jerks, is actually just inexperience with the game mode.  Once there are some tutorials or even just more experience / word of mouth (DE style), this will be even less of a problem.  

Most people play to actually play, leechers in Railjack cannot be more than 1-2% of playerbase.  I have not had the same experience you guys have and I've easily done over 100 runs.  

Edited by Educated_Beast

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5 minutes ago, Educated_Beast said:

I think what you guys are confusing for afk or jerks, is actually just inexperience with the game mode.

Even if this is the case, this does not come across.

People are feeling personally slighted, worried others will make them look bad or slow them down..
Game wide, we have these players with this approach.

Those players will approach all things with this potential perspective.. and thus, we're going to need a way to restore their confidence in the game somehow.

Likewise, we need to restore the confidence of the players scorned for not being experienced.. as you say, a tutorial helps a lot.. but then what of the people who Transcend the tutorial, and want perfection? There's no end to ambition.. and any time ambition is slighted, people get mad. The only thing I can think to do, is offer them their own matches... with like minded people who are striving for that 1% top efficiency, and have no patience for less. ...This keeps customers from being combative, resentful, and reluctant to interact with the game.

I would only play railjack, if I knew I could join other people that aren't looking to objectify players as inhuman parasites, for not handling the mechanics in a way they deem acceptable.

The satisfaction of the game for it's players demands positive constructive solutions. ...in lieu of those, we're making up the difference on each other's hides.
Criminality is created by a person's expectation for available opportunity, being restrictive as compared to their ambitions. ...This is why Railjack has devolved into a petty meta game of cops and robbers for some people.

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1 hour ago, kapn655321 said:

No, I'm saying DE needs to instruct players on what a reasonable expectation is.
I suggested Samaris have a training simulation, to rate your performance, and allow players to pick from a pool of capability that they accept.

The game does not require that we are perfect to succeed... but players do. Anything beneath utterly perfect, is, "leeching," to someone.
That is not a standard that we should allow players to indulge at the cost of the enjoyment of other players, who are not concerned with perfection so long as they succeed and have fun.

Players like yourself should be able to pick from perfect players, so that others who are imperfect don't have to be chastised for trying to play a video game.
 

maybe they should add mission where you have to do a mission as part of the quest. a railjack certification course by Cy. 

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14 minutes ago, ADM-Ntek said:

a railjack certification course by Cy.

Yes. More over, having rankings, and letting that be a factor in who we may recruit.

...There was a social experiment that I'm trying like hell to find to cite..
Actors exhibited signs of a heart attack or stroke outside of some high class business, dressed either as homeless, or as a peer in quality formal attire.

The reactions of those who belonged to that business directly correlated to the actor's attire. ...the, "homeless," were left for well over an hour.. where as the, "peer," was assisted within ~40 seconds. I mention this because, the people who are lashing out at the, "leeches," and failures of others are not inherently bad people.. they just aren't capable of seeing those around them as peers.. and thus, cannot be bothered.

To bring out the best in these people (instead of this infighting,) they need to be with peers; for less experienced players to not be seen as human refuse, they need to be able to know what those expectations are in order to practice and strive for becoming a peer, should they choose to or wish to be.

Likewise, if players are not concerned with doing their best, there are other players who would accept them as peers.. and they should be able to find them as well.

Edited by kapn655321

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So you're saying we can be a**holes whenever we want.

Any actions we do here, have consequences, if your here just to be an a**hole, and then we have the right to be an a**hole too, and allowing us to votekicking you out. We understand you ought here but everything needs to be in control. PvE like 'Left 4 Dead 2" sort trollers out from votekick. It's not our fault if u want to troll or abuse our kindness but always remember. Theres consequence to be made once u do a certain degree of insult.

By allowing votekick, it would serve players to respect one another, if the majority of votekick hates you it means that you did somthing wrong, and you have nothing to do against it. So be nice and not to insult other players next time. Since not everything would go accord in your favor, and this applies in Work, Family and any Relationships you may in. A simple rule *Respect*

 

Edited by LoriSei

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12 minutes ago, LoriSei said:

So you're saying we can be a**holes whenever we want.

I'm saying we already are, and rather than votekicking everyone, be in a strata of peers who agree with your style and have proved they don't need to be vote-kicked.

What if I enter a game, and vote kick you, calling you a leech?
Whether you agree or not, will you learn respect for me?
Will you know how to improve?
Or would you resent me and the game more?

What we each individually determine to be, "being an a**hole," is actually very different.. sometimes even excessive, obsessive, or heavy handed.

We need to be given the tools to not be stuck in a game with people we can't get along with. You and I both agree on this.

How we do it should not be determined by young adults on a video game about power exploitation, for what (I would HOPE) are obvious reasons.
 

 

Edited by kapn655321

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32 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

What if I enter a game, and vote kick you, calling you a leech?

In the team it's the majority of the team will decide, and if only the 2 of us votekick is disabled.

 

32 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Whether you agree or not, will you learn respect for me?

Hell yeah if u ask kindly. If not I can just join another game

32 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Will you know how to improve?

Just type in the chat "still new in to this game" so he would know what to do to help you.

32 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Or would you resent me and the game more?

I only resent If I'm not able to access what I can't access and trollers would know what makes u pissed off.

 

32 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

We need to be given the tools to not be stuck in a game with people we can't get along with. You and I both agree on this.

Yes I agree and like I saidi n the OP it can be a fix is by Implementing votekicks the in game OR ways to remove them out from their "Stations"(stationary position), So that I can help other potential players to farm their resources rather than those who takes without any return.

Edited by LoriSei

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4 hours ago, LoriSei said:

In the team it's the majority of the team will decide, and if only the 2 of us votekick is disabled.

 

Hell yeah if u ask kindly. If not I can just join another game

Just type in the chat "still new in to this game" so he would know what to do to help you.

I only resent If I'm not able to access what I can't access and trollers would know what makes u pissed off.

 

Yes I agree and like I saidi n the OP it can be a fix is by Implementing votekicks the in game OR ways to remove them out from their "Stations"(stationary position), So that I can help other potential players to farm their resources rather than those who takes without any return.

People don't ask kindly when they feel you're in the way, and have a vote kick.
They vote and ignore you if you disagree.
...then resent everyone in the party that doesn't agree to vote kick.

So if we had a kick, that would get rid of trolls, right? ...right?

Spoiler

To summarize, "lol, vote guys, just say he's cheating. lol!!" ...fun stuff.

This is a whole different level of troll.. one that is more exciting and appealing to troll with.
For whatever good vote kick Can do.. It gives the greatest and most wonderful gift to overbearing elitists and trolls.
"I can potentially gamble to ruin someone's game with a single button press? YES PLEASE."
...let's not give them that chance, k?

That's why I propose a compromise that isn't a system to simplify and encourage abuse of power. If you have leagues of efficiency, you have an absolute guarantee that the players you are with are every bit as capable and dedicated as you are, and could wish people to be. This is exactly the same end result, without the power trip at the press of a button.

Which is more efficient? Picking people 1 by 1 to tell them they're trash? Or picking from a pool of capable players?
So unless you're like... some kind leech that wants to suck the fun out of things... you'd just pick from the pool of good players.
Let an impartial mechanic skip nearly all potential problems for you.

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16 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

People don't ask kindly when they feel you're in the way, and have a vote kick.

Your Quote: "Whether you agree or not, will you learn respect for me?"

I thought it's seperate question its and easily misunderstood. Which I will say yes, because if u ask for it then yes i'll move. But if you mean people, want to vote kick you for fun then, why would stick in the team in the first place. Just leave, it wouldnt spark an argument you didn't do something wrong. If your being disrespectfull among them, then yes, they'll kick you out.

16 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

To summarize, "lol, vote guys, just say he's cheating. lol!!" ...fun stuff.

This is a whole different level of troll.. one that is more exciting and appealing to troll with.
For whatever good vote kick Can do.. It gives the greatest and most wonderful gift to overbearing elitists and trolls.
"I can potentially gamble to ruin someone's game with a single button press? YES PLEASE."
...let's not give them that chance, k?

It's because it's hard to judge cheaters and everyone knows it ruins their fun in game. But it's easily to spot Leecher's just by looking at their movements and stats. But icheating Warframe. U can't just throw your account that easily...

We can easily change the rule of votekick. Votekick can apply 1-5 min WARNING if they see leecher's leechs in the game then if they still leech in that small radius then they get dissconnected from the game.

(Which I can finally use the artillery) and makes them move than usual . We know verbal abuse in chat, like Nezha is ... can ban u in the game, and also u can make a way votekick out of that rule. Verbal abuse in Mic... just mute them.

Don't forget my option 2 which the owner have rights to move anyone away in their stationary positions when needed.

16 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

That's why I propose a compromise that isn't a system to simplify and encourage abuse of power.

It's not abuse, it's how we control our right's as individual, and must follow these simple rules so that no ones takes advantage from one another, and I don't encourage them to play the game by not playing the game.

Edited by LoriSei

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4 hours ago, LoriSei said:

if u ask for it then yes i'll move.
But if you mean people, want to vote kick you for fun
then, why would stick in the team in the first place. Just leave,
it wouldnt spark an argument you didn't do something wrong.
If your being disrespectfull among them, then yes, they'll kick you out.

It's because it's hard to judge cheaters and everyone knows it ruins their fun in game. But it's easily to spot Leecher's just by looking at their movements and stats. But in cheating Warframe. U can't just throw your account that easily...

We can easily change the rule of votekick. Votekick can apply 1-5 min WARNING if they see leecher's leechs in the game then if they still leech in that small radius then they get dissconnected from the game.

(Which I can finally use the artillery) and makes them move than usual . We know verbal abuse in chat, like Nezha is ... can ban u in the game, and also u can make a way votekick out of that rule. Verbal abuse in Mic... just mute them.

Don't forget my option 2 which the owner have rights to move anyone away in their stationary positions when needed.

It's not abuse, it's how we control our right's as individual, and must follow these simple rules so that no ones takes advantage from one another, and I don't encourage them to play the game by not playing the game.

Thank you for listening so far.
You had mentioned a language barrier, and I want to say you've done a wonderful job with your English.
I've had a very easy time understanding you, and I do sincerely appreciate whatever difficulty this may cause.
It's important to me that you know I am grateful for your efforts.


It is imperative that my ideas and solutions fully address every concern that affects you and others in regards to negative or contrary party player performance.

  • The ability to remove someone doesn't just mean teaching the bad guys not to get in your way..
                   It also means protecting your team from catastrophic failure in mission.
  • Anything outside of our control that fails the mission, feels personal and should be preventable.. and I understand that.

While we have different approaches, I still appreciate the discussion. Hearing all relevant concerns are what helps me refine the ideas and solutions that can work for both of us.

One (more) thing I should mention that we seem to both agree on:
 - The AFK standards could/should be improved to catch people sooner and more accurately.
Regardless of other features, AFK for the artillery must recognize players moving around and shooting within artillery.

All players AFK for 40 seconds should be warned

  1. with a 20sec timer, and be removed at 60 seconds if still considered AFK.
  2. When that 20s count-down begins, players can spam the key for "Inspect" to ping them with a message, like: "Come on."
    A neutral but direct way to vent at them that takes no extra time.
  3. That player may try to rejoin, but the party must vote unanimously that they want to welcome them back, within 30s.

They keep joining games and being a problem? The party has to reprimand them every time? So why hasn't DE fixed this or given us a Kick?
The burden on the SUPPORT staff.
Every kick is a potential dispute ticket for misconduct.
"Ban them. They kicked me for no reason!"
"Ban them, I'm tired of kicking them out!"

Imagine you work for DE support, and recieve this complaint:
"This person tried to kick me because they thought I was AFK or trolling them. I was doing something WAY more important, but they just can't get that through their head that what they wanted me to do was just a bad idea, and what I was doing at the time was necessary." How does support handle that ticket?
"Well, you should have watched the same youtube video that they watched, loser. Get good or get banned! LOL XD What do you think this is, a Game??"

  • When you're in the middle of a mission, there's often no time to carefully instruct a person who may never care. It should not be required or incumbent of players to be instructing others how to play. Communication with your party is beneficial; getting into an ethical discussion of the importance of teamwork, and trying to explain the critical points of a youtube instructional while in a fire fight should not be our responsibility.

 

  • Because there are people who do not mind if a party is slow to learn, confused, or distracted..
    (some people have beat these missions solo.. so technically..) there is (and must be) room for players who don't have a good grasp on, "how to railjack."
    Currently...there's just no room for that in public, because it messes with other player's expected quality and performance in Warframe.
     
  • Players who aren't as good also seem to have an expectation: The ability to explore, learn, and practice in a public mission, without it becoming a fight. (Are they wrong?)

 

  • Better players may wish to kick those people for messing up a certain quality of performance that they,
    (the kicker) decide (by their own potentially unique, imaginary, or arbitrary standard) necessary for their mission to go well.
    You may have an ideal in mind about what it means to do the mission right.. but that takes for granted that others, with complete certainty, see that method or goal the same as you do.
     
  • That kicked player may just quit doing Railjack, and never get good. From their perspective, they may feel manipulated by, "toxic elitism," and DE would have allowed it.
    (Whether or not it genuinely applies in each case.)
     
  • Try as you might to do everything perfectly and correctly, all it takes is someone else to have a different idea of, "correct," and the arguments begin.
     
  • If for no other reason, DE does not have the time or resources to handle thousands of player complaints that, "some toxic goblin kicked me for no reason. Kick them, instead."


The ability to spot potential leechers through stats is precisely why stats should be used to determine available games.
If a person is revealed to be problematic in their stats, they should not be joining games that players deem too important mess up.
Looking at all profile stats might be misleading, because they could spend a lot of time in Solo matches testing things.. so those results skew the perception of their ability.
Instead, earn the right to be in a distinguished league that clearly states it's intent:
"We won't put up with that, we do not welcome that, and should never have to."

If you don't want to be confined to play in league, you play public or invite. League would be an optional matchmaking.

There is a certain quality of play that some people come to expect, and by all means, they should be able to have that. Other users who are not as good at the game mode, are still learning, or become easily distracted may be properly kicked unjustifiably, ruining their chance to get better, and making them unwelcome to play the game. This hurts just DE as much as players affected by leechers, by getting the impression, "You must not want me to be enjoying and succeeding at your game."

Both parties should be able to find their peers from the start, rather than arguing in mission who is or isn't making the mission difficult to enjoy.
That should be what public is, but it just isn't. That should be what matchmaking solves, but it just doesn't. Same with nodes.
The more refined and simplified the filter, the more of the right people join together organically, and have a good time.


Even in the best case scenario, of a responsible and considerate party vote kicking (non-afk) player with poor performance
The party votes to say, "we're getting ready to kick you, because you're not doing your part effectively, and we're going to remove you if you still aren't in X minutes,"
The player about to be kicked may still have no way to know how to correct the problem, no matter how nicely you tell them there is one.
No tutorial has been offered for these players. If they come in and act like they have no idea what they're doing, that's because the game made it so they could come in and have no idea what they're doing. A tutorial and league would mean there is no excuse.

Matchmaking just isn't designed in a way that makes it easier to find a mission that works for everyone, and so we're settling for the idea that, "we'll just fix it ourselves," and that is still not the right solution, as I have tried at length to explain.. and people just don't get it. (By that logic, I should have earned the right kick people who want kick feature.. and that's why it wouldn't work. ;))

Edited by kapn655321

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5 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

They keep joining games and being a problem?

Nah you can't rejoin once you've been out by the host.

 

5 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

One (more) thing I should mention that we seem to both agree on:
 - The AFK standards could/should be improved to catch people sooner and more accurately.
Regardless of other features, AFK for the artillery must recognize players moving around and shooting within artillery.

All players AFK for 40 seconds should be warned

  1. with a 20sec timer, and be removed at 60 seconds if still considered AFK.
  2. When that 20s count-down begins, players can spam the key for "Inspect" to ping them with a message, like: "Come on."
    A neutral but direct way to vent at them that takes no extra time.
  3. That player may try to rejoin, but the party must vote unanimously that they want to welcome them back, within 30s.

They keep joining games and being a problem? The party has to reprimand them every time? So why hasn't DE fixed this or given us a Kick?
The burden on the SUPPORT staff.
Every kick is a potential dispute ticket for misconduct.
"Ban them. They kicked me for no reason!"
"Ban them, I'm tired of kicking them out!"

Hope this would do...

When a player has been flagged as AFK by their crew members, the following will occur to notify them:

An extremely VISIBLE message will appear on that player’s screen.

A message will appear in the player’s chat notifying them that they have been flagged as AFK.

A countdown timer will appear in their UI

Once a person has been flagged as AFK, they have X amount of time to enter a requested input. This input will appear in the player’s display. Inputs are simple actions that require the player to be paying attention but are not inherently complex. An example of a requested input to do a certain action (move away this position for 10 seconds). Once the REQUESTED input has been entered, the timer will cancel and the player will no longer be flagged as AFK, and if they don't do as they told it dissconects them from the game.

(Well a good use in Tactical commands I would say)

For AFK detection system. It detects afk when the radius of where hes at, and the radius of where he's pointing at has been innactive and the input history if its not been in used, or it has been pressed for very long.

I care more about how to avoid leeching in general, trolling is just secondary problem in a PVE game

(This Idea was from Sea of Thieves forum) Since RJ and SOT has it similarities in general

 

 

Edited by LoriSei

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28 minutes ago, LoriSei said:

Hope this would do...

When a player has been flagged as AFK by their crew members, the following will occur to notify them:

An extremely VISIBLE message will appear on that player’s screen.

A message will appear in the player’s chat notifying them that they have been flagged as AFK.

A countdown timer will appear in their UI

Once a person has been flagged as AFK, they have X amount of time to enter a requested input. This input will appear in the player’s display. Inputs are simple actions that require the player to be paying attention but are not inherently complex. An example of a requested input to do a certain action (move away this position for 10 seconds). Once the REQUESTED input has been entered, the timer will cancel and the player will no longer be flagged as AFK, and if they don't do as they told it dissconects them from the game.

(Well a good use in Tactical commands I would say)

For AFK detection system. It detects afk when the radius of where hes at, and the radius of where he's pointing at has been innactive and the input history if its not been in used, or it has been pressed for very long.

I agree with the AFK proposal! ^_^

I care about not having troll mechanics, because that makes me (and others) not trust or enjoy the game, in the same way leechers makes you (and others) not trust or enjoy the game.
So it seems a reasonable compromise for us both is, "A more pronounced AFK detection system." That has my vote. ❤️

As for why I proposed players getting a chance to return, my thought was this:
Say a friend/player had an emergency come up; they've been with you for 40 min doing a great job, until their dog threw up on the carpet or something, or they get a call from the hospital ...whatever the case... They're gone for 61 seconds, and suddenly.. everything they did was a waste, and the party is saying, "Dude, that sucks! I'm sorry man, wish I could do something to help."

This is why the AFK system currently is so lenient. Sh*t happens, and many parties are forgiving and understanding... and while it's absolutely important to weed out actual AFK leechers.. a deliberate leech, and a good player in the middle of an emergency, will look the same to the system. After all, you don't want to get a call from the hospital, and Also find out you've lose 40 minutes of grind.. that's the kinda thing that makes people quit the game.

Being able to vote for or to deny their return could be up to the party. If their afk bothered Anyone, they would not be allowed to return. If it would be welcomed by everyone, that player wouldn't have to lose all that work or effort. Very much like when your game/computer crashes, and you come back. "Do you want to rejoin squad?" Accepting could prompt the party to vote yes or no to allow you back. Unanimous agreement would be required. If no, tough luck for them; if yes, everyone's happy. More over, if they deserved the kick, and try to return, everyone would be justified in telling them, "No, we really don't welcome you back."

With this leniency in place, the AFK detection can safely be More restrictive, to remove people sooner than it does.
I could go either way on that, but I figured you may appreciate that. ..AFKs being kicked sooner, and a very justified and instructive vote to decline their return.

Thank you again for your patience and input in this discussion. A more well defined AFK system would be a solid compromise! Excellent work on that idea. 😃 Glad we had this talk.

Edited by kapn655321

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I don't know about you OP, but I used to ask each member of my crew if it's their first time and ask why they don't do anything if they're not moving and that works

You see, the chat exists, some communication might solve the problem

Or just go back to dry dock, disband the squad and find another in recruiting chat. Why must we make afk punishment system that may ruin someone's that might not afk but flagged?

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7 minutes ago, 844448 said:

...may ruin someone's that might not afk but flagged?

That right there is at the root of the issue, imo.

Not being able to rely on the game to handle this fully and properly, is putting people on edge that, A) The system meant to prevent it had a loophole that will reward the wrong people, and B) they're going to be the one screwed by that oversight. It should be considered by DE that they revise false-flags and loopholes for AFK detection, and alert players so they're aware when they're flagged.

Also, punishing the wrong people lead me to think up the unanimous vote option to (potentially) allow them back:
If a player is removed by AFK detection, they'll get a prompt like the one we get after a crash. "Your session closed unexpectedly. Would you like to rejoin?"
The party will then be prompted to vote whether or not to bring them back. Once.
To make that extra lenient.. if a player votes no, give them an option to say, "Woops! Do over!" and restart the vote. Once.

This way, if a player is removed from AFK, no one inherently must suffer as a result.. neither the AFK person, a party that didn't want to lose them, or a player who did.
It's a work in progress. Your feedback is welcome.

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1 hour ago, kapn655321 said:

Say a friend/player had an emergency come up; they've been with you for 40 min doing a great job, until their dog threw up on the carpet or something, or they get a call from the hospital ...whatever the case... They're gone for 61 seconds, and suddenly.. everything they did was a waste, and the party is saying, "Dude, that sucks! I'm sorry man, wish I could do something to help."

This is why the AFK system currently is so lenient. Sh*t happens, and many parties are forgiving and understanding... and while it's absolutely important to weed out actual AFK leechers.. a deliberate leech, and a good player in the middle of an emergency, will look the same to the system. After all, you don't want to get a call from the hospital, and Also find out you've lose 40 minutes of grind.. that's the kinda thing that makes people quit the game.

Being able to vote for or to deny their return could be up to the party. If their afk bothered Anyone, they would not be allowed to return. If it would be welcomed by everyone, that player wouldn't have to lose all that work or effort. Very much like when your game/computer crashes, and you come back. "Do you want to rejoin squad?" Accepting could prompt the party to vote yes or no to allow you back. Unanimous agreement would be required. If no, tough luck for them; if yes, everyone's happy. More over, if they deserved the kick, and try to return, everyone would be justified in telling them, "No, we really don't welcome you back."

Sadly AFK dectection is on effect in Warframe (defense) mission. Which no rewards given if they stand for unknown number of time.

I rather not to say when AFK detection will go in effect. Since players would find ways to counterfeit the issue and try to AFK and move when the timer is close. It’s unfortunate natural disasters, and uncertain accidents might occur and it’s the players responsibility to decide on which to be in priority. 

Gamodes:

Survival/Exterminate/Sabotage and etc. That requires extraction : Afk is not a major factor since if they died. They could just extract the game if necessary.

Defense: AFK detection is already in effect so up 2 u how u felt about it. Not good when a Warframe like Octavia can do AFK farm 😄

Raljack: Pending: D

 

 

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1 hour ago, 844448 said:

I don't know about you OP, but I used to ask each member of my crew if it's their first time and ask why they don't do anything if they're not moving and that works

You see, the chat exists, some communication might solve the problem

Or just go back to dry dock, disband the squad and find another in recruiting chat. Why must we make afk punishment system that may ruin someone's that might not afk but flagged?

You see people can leech inside the artillery, slingshot and the side guns. Best Warframes to bring like Ivara, Wisp and Limbo which I could stay stagnant for the rest of the game.

Communication won’t do anything if thats their intention at first.

My overall point here is that I want to use any of my weapons in Railjack it could be Pilot, side guns, slingshot and Artillery and it needs to be vacant when needed. Unless if they want to cooperate at least.

Specially in Public matches...

Edited by LoriSei

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