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Small tweaks to baruuk and his augments


TurroBandolero
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Straight forward:

-Baruuk's lull only affects alerted enemies, so waking up an enemy during lull implies he suffers confusion and he will not start the process of falling asleep again untill he becomes alerted again, wich is the great reason of the poor survivability of the build based on the new augment Endless lullaby.

-Endless lullaby increases the duration of the sleep and not the lull field. When the game says "ability duration" it refers to the lull field duration and the mod states "ability duration", anyway could be either missspelling or bad translating to my game language instead of malfunction (already posted this on the bugs section). Feedback wise, increasing the duration of the lull field would make baruuk more versatile, since he has some problems having to run high strenght for consistent damage reduction, paired with shield/health mods. Also I find quite interesting the interaction between lull and serene storm (enemies hit by serene storm are not awaken) so having the possibility to create a build that can run high strenght for surv/dmg while having a consistent way to proc lull.

-Baruuk still has no way to increase his passive efficiency, there's some disagreement among the comunity if this is necessary or not, and I get it, it is possible to mantain serene storm active 24/7, but the thing is, some times there's not enough enemies to affect with lull/desolate hands, and it feels really bad having to stop fighting just to erode restraint either by casting lull multiple times on the same enemies or standing still while elude is active (the same thing with naramon's void stalker that requires you to crouch with the operator for 5 seconds every 20 seconds in order to keep the critical chance buff).

-Lull would be a really good ability if the "slow down before falling asleep time" were affected by something. Honestly, endless lullaby could do that instead of increasing duration.

-Reactive storm gives a preety neglectable percentage of adaptative damage, so for example: running a viral build and expecting to get corrosive via reactive storm is just not relevant, sounds good in paper but you will get roughly 90% viral procs instead of getting mostly corrosive procs (wich would be really good). Consider that this weapont don't even have great attack speed. Anyway I'm not saying that the status output should be too heavly leaned towards whatever element reactive storm gives you because this is an AOE weapon and they are kind of OP right now, but definitely looking forward for a more even percentage.

Edited by --KoR--TurroBandolero
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I'll also add:

  • Desolate hands staggers enemies affected by Lull, delaying or preventing their sleep.
  • Nullifiers ending Serene Storm leads to some nightmarish long weapon swapping animation. (puts away fists, brings out melee.. it's like 4 straight seconds of down time.)

If there were a way I could mod him that fit a Weapon Swap speed mod, I absolutely would, but for how feels to me, that's just not possible.. nor should it be so necessary.

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hace 21 minutos, kapn655321 dijo:

I'll also add:

  • Desolate hands staggers enemies affected by Lull, delaying or preventing their sleep.
  • Nullifiers ending Serene Storm leads to some nightmarish long weapon swapping animation. (puts away fists, brings out melee.. it's like 4 straight seconds of down time.)

If there were a way I could mod him that fit a Weapon Swap speed mod, I absolutely would, but for how feels to me, that's just not possible.. nor should it be so necessary.

Never knew about the nullifier problem, since you are able to pop the bubble with serene storm itself.

I feel that way too, baruuk needs either tweaks on his kit/augments or 2 extra mod slots

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hace 4 horas, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 dijo:

Reactive Storm only applies the adaptive damage upon directly hitting an enemy with Desert Storm.

The adaptation converts the impact damage of the weapon, so it’s not a matter of the weapon dealing a low percentage of the adapted damage.

Could be, but I think it also works with the wind waves, or at least that was my conclusion after testing in the simulacrum (not sure tho, because simulacrum is a complete garbage for testing baruuk's 4, every enemy falls off the map).

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13 minutes ago, --KoR--TurroBandolero said:

Could be, but I think it also works with the wind waves, or at least that was my conclusion after testing in the simulacrum (not sure tho, because simulacrum is a complete garbage for testing baruuk's 4, every enemy falls off the map).

I tested it with only impact damage. Only got impact procs with the waves until I physically hit the enemy. Then that one hit and the wave changed to corrosive.

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I wanted to open a thread for this but since there's already one I'll add up:

change how his third ability works when you have allies around, meaning that daggers are not automatically shared with squadmates, and implement the following:

tap the skill button to cast the ability, as it normally does;

hold to share it in a 6m radius (iirc, it's the base value at lv30, affected by mods) half of the max charges with the closest ally. If more than one ally is in the range, pick one randomly; do not retarget an ally that is already affected by the skill (if there are more than 1 allies in range, of course).

The visual effect could be half of the daggers swirling fast around Baruuk, in a larger orbit than the usual ones.

 

This because I find bothersome to not have control over your charge number should you find yourself in a squad (90% of the time basically) since everyone  in this game is slinging themselves from one part to another.

More importantly, Baruuk has almost nothing to offer to his squad except his presence obviously and his very slowly-shared amount of daggers: in order to provide protection to a teammate you have to stick to them for at least 9 seconds, which is not that fun... Whereas you have Gara, that can literally go "you get a 90% DR, you get a 90% DR, everybody gets a 90%DR!!!" even on npcs and mission targets, with no need of any augment.

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hace 6 horas, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 dijo:

Yep! Absolute waste of an augment that Baruuk desperately needed. It’s like DE wants to see this frame fail.

I disagree about the failure part, I think baruuk is a good frame, excelent survivability using a strenght build+shield and shield replenishment arcanes, plus having more than decent damage with his 4, taking into consideration how big is his AOE. The problem I see is the potential for a kit that works and sinergizes well together instead of having to deal with the problems previously mentioned.

hace 6 horas, (PS4)DidacoJack dijo:

I wanted to open a thread for this but since there's already one I'll add up:

change how his third ability works when you have allies around, meaning that daggers are not automatically shared with squadmates, and implement the following:

tap the skill button to cast the ability, as it normally does;

hold to share it in a 6m radius (iirc, it's the base value at lv30, affected by mods) half of the max charges with the closest ally. If more than one ally is in the range, pick one randomly; do not retarget an ally that is already affected by the skill (if there are more than 1 allies in range, of course).

The visual effect could be half of the daggers swirling fast around Baruuk, in a larger orbit than the usual ones.

 

This because I find bothersome to not have control over your charge number should you find yourself in a squad (90% of the time basically) since everyone  in this game is slinging themselves from one part to another.

More importantly, Baruuk has almost nothing to offer to his squad except his presence obviously and his very slowly-shared amount of daggers: in order to provide protection to a teammate you have to stick to them for at least 9 seconds, which is not that fun... Whereas you have Gara, that can literally go "you get a 90% DR, you get a 90% DR, everybody gets a 90%DR!!!" even on npcs and mission targets, with no need of any augment.

I agree that this particular mechanic is slow and unusable given the pace the game currently has, but also I should mention that I see this mechanic as something neglectable in the current meta. Looking at the changes you listed, I see the need of a more efficient baruuk build, currently you need blind rage to have a decent amount of daggers without wasting too many mod slots and that results in 50-70 energy to cast his 3 having arround 17-22 daggers, clearly not enough to feed the whole squad. But as I said, I dont see this mechanic as something relevant. For me desolate hands is the best ability baruuk has, simple damage reduction with a tea spoon of crowd control, little drawback and recastable, more than enough.

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6 hours ago, --KoR--TurroBandolero said:

I disagree about the failure part, I think baruuk is a good frame, excelent survivability using a strenght build+shield and shield replenishment arcanes, plus having more than decent damage with his 4, taking into consideration how big is his AOE. The problem I see is the potential for a kit that works and sinergizes well together instead of having to deal with the problems previously mentioned.

I agree that Baruuk is better than most people give him credit for. But he becomes disappointing when you get to his 4. Compared to the exalted weapons before Melee phase 2 it was severely outclassed and it’s only considered as good as it is now because Iron Staff and Hysteria were made worse than it. Serene Storm needed a rework to its damage or an augment. And the augment technically fixes the problems with Serene Storm in the most round about, useless way possible. I took the time to wear down my restraint meter. I wanna feel like a badass when I finally get to use the ability.

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11 hours ago, --KoR--TurroBandolero said:

I agree that this particular mechanic is slow and unusable given the pace the game currently has, but also I should mention that I see this mechanic as something neglectable in the current meta. Looking at the changes you listed, I see the need of a more efficient baruuk build, currently you need blind rage to have a decent amount of daggers without wasting too many mod slots and that results in 50-70 energy to cast his 3 having arround 17-22 daggers, clearly not enough to feed the whole squad. But as I said, I dont see this mechanic as something relevant. For me desolate hands is the best ability baruuk has, simple damage reduction with a tea spoon of crowd control, little drawback and recastable, more than enough.

I don't honestly understand why a simple tweak should revolve around what's meta and what's not.

If DE had to develop content based on what's meta and what's not, 3/4 of this game (quite frankly, much more than that) wouldn't have reason to exist. If they did, every warframe by this point would be a damage dealer because Mesa and Saryn exist.

the changes I propose are because the mechanics they implemented on Baruuk are clunky and not too usable, while there's Gara that does it in a much smoother fashion in a much broader usefulness.

Seriously, if I play this game is because I don't give a cent about meta.

Edited by (PS4)DidacoJack
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hace 11 horas, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 dijo:

I agree that Baruuk is better than most people give him credit for. But he becomes disappointing when you get to his 4. Compared to the exalted weapons before Melee phase 2 it was severely outclassed and it’s only considered as good as it is now because Iron Staff and Hysteria were made worse than it. Serene Storm needed a rework to its damage or an augment. And the augment technically fixes the problems with Serene Storm in the most round about, useless way possible. I took the time to wear down my restraint meter. I wanna feel like a badass when I finally get to use the ability.

Honestly I think serene storm has more than enough damage, giving so much damage to weapons and warframes just trivializes the content even more. In my opinion we as players are not in the position to ask such things, the game doesnt have missions above lvl 110 beside endurance runs. As I said, baruuk has an AOE exalted weapon, and you probably know how popular AOE becomes when its paired with outstanding damage *cof cof* catchmoon. Baruuk can deal perfectly with any content in the game (except endurance runs, and even there he will last more than an hour) when it comes to damage, I think the problem is related to the efficiency, in survival missions for example, is quite hard to keep the passive full without stop fighting, and stop killing enemies in survival means life support decaying.

hace 6 horas, (PS4)DidacoJack dijo:

I don't honestly understand why a simple tweak should revolve around what's meta and what's not.

If DE had to develop content based on what's meta and what's not, 3/4 of this game (quite frankly, much more than that) wouldn't have reason to exist. If they did, every warframe by this point would be a damage dealer because Mesa and Saryn exist.

the changes I propose are because the mechanics they implemented on Baruuk are clunky and not too usable, while there's Gara that does it in a much smoother fashion in a much broader usefulness.

Seriously, if I play this game is because I don't give a cent about meta.

I understand your point, but in the moment you compare it with another warframe you are speaking about meta, meta is not only the top (and lazy) warframes, we are dealing with a whole spectrum where every warframe has his place, your suggested tweak will move baruuk closer to gara in this spectrum. Also I think is imposible to not speak about meta if we are speaking about coop, think about it this way: you stated that everybody is slinging arround, because thats the meta, move arround to not get shot or bring a lazy tank (obviously there are other reasons like moving to a particular place but Im speaking about fighting enemies), and if you cant follow that you are outclassed just like baruuk is outclassed by gara when it comes to damage reduction for allies. You may not give a cent about the meta but its still there, there are a lot of reasons to play the game, challenge is one (even if there's no much at this point) and challenge depends completely on balancing, so the meta doesnt trivializes the content just like saryn press 4 to win in hydron.

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5 minutes ago, --KoR--TurroBandolero said:

Honestly I think serene storm has more than enough damage, giving so much damage to weapons and warframes just trivializes the content even more. In my opinion we as players are not in the position to ask such things, the game doesnt have missions above lvl 110 beside endurance runs. As I said, baruuk has an AOE exalted weapon, and you probably know how popular AOE becomes when its paired with outstanding damage *cof cof* catchmoon. Baruuk can deal perfectly with any content in the game (except endurance runs, and even there he will last more than an hour) when it comes to damage, I think the problem is related to the efficiency, in survival missions for example, is quite hard to keep the passive full without stop fighting, and stop killing enemies in survival means life support decaying.

Oh trust me it doesn’t. I have a pretty hard hitting build and 250% power strength and it actively struggles to kill level 100 enemies. The buff to sacrificial steel was a nice boost to it, but compared to Exalted blades damage output, Serene Storm literally can’t compare. Also, you have to build up a seperate meter with your other abilities in order to even use Serene Storm. The game actively incentivized you to not constantly use that ability. With that kind of restriction it should be one of the best damage abilities in the game. 
The arguement of “oh well people don’t go past star chart levels so it shouldn’t be dealing damage that can go past those levels” is shallow af. Arbitrations exist, ESO exists. There is current content that goes beyond level 110 and Baruuk can’t compete with other frames damage output. And the fact that it’s a large AOE shouldn’t be a reason to restrict its damage. You Have To Build Up To Use It! Finally being able to use the ability should feel rewarding, and not like you’re just throwing farts at an enemy because they’re above level 100. Baruuk has all the balance for dealing insane damage, but no insane damage to actually back it up.

 

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hace 31 minutos, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 dijo:

Oh trust me it doesn’t. I have a pretty hard hitting build and 250% power strength and it actively struggles to kill level 100 enemies. The buff to sacrificial steel was a nice boost to it, but compared to Exalted blades damage output, Serene Storm literally can’t compare. Also, you have to build up a seperate meter with your other abilities in order to even use Serene Storm. The game actively incentivized you to not constantly use that ability. With that kind of restriction it should be one of the best damage abilities in the game. 
The arguement of “oh well people don’t go past star chart levels so it shouldn’t be dealing damage that can go past those levels” is shallow af. Arbitrations exist, ESO exists. There is current content that goes beyond level 110 and Baruuk can’t compete with other frames damage output. And the fact that it’s a large AOE shouldn’t be a reason to restrict its damage. You Have To Build Up To Use It! Finally being able to use the ability should feel rewarding, and not like you’re just throwing farts at an enemy because they’re above level 100. Baruuk has all the balance for dealing insane damage, but no insane damage to actually back it up.

 

AOE obviously should restrict the damage output, a weapon that does 50 dmg cannot compete with one that does 60 damage and is capable of hitting more than one enemy at a time. (obvious and exagerated example for the sake of demonstration).

I agree about serene storm being something hard to pull off due to the restraint meter, but I think is not that extreme, ESO already has enough enemies to erode restraint fast enough, but obviously the rest of the missions dont.

 

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16 minutes ago, --KoR--TurroBandolero said:

AOE obviously should restrict the damage output, a weapon that does 50 dmg cannot compete with one that does 60 damage and is capable of hitting more than one enemy at a time. (obvious and exagerated example for the sake of demonstration).

Serene Storm is already restricted with the restraint meter. It doesn’t matter what it’s AOE range is. It already has ample justification to deal higher damage.

Not to mention Mesa has a far larger range than Baruuk and deals significantly more damage than him.

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hace 32 minutos, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 dijo:

Serene Storm is already restricted with the restraint meter. It doesn’t matter what it’s AOE range is. It already has ample justification to deal higher damage.

Not to mention Mesa has a far larger range than Baruuk and deals significantly more damage than him.

Your comparison is true, but for me in that case the problem is mesa and not baruuk. Mesa has way too much damage and is lazy af, but thats matter for another trend.

Baruuk has a reasonable amount of damage in my opinion, It just feels clunky having to stop killing just because of my passive.

I dont like the game being a walk in the park and having so much damage than I cant tell the difference between lvl 20 and lvl 70 missions

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40 minutes ago, --KoR--TurroBandolero said:

Your comparison is true, but for me in that case the problem is mesa and not baruuk. Mesa has way too much damage and is lazy af, but thats matter for another trend.

Baruuk has a reasonable amount of damage in my opinion, It just feels clunky having to stop killing just because of my passive.

I dont like the game being a walk in the park and having so much damage than I cant tell the difference between lvl 20 and lvl 70 missions

Nerfing Mesa doesn’t make Baruuk better. Actually making Baruuk better makes Baruuk better. Not holding his exalted weapons damage back for dumb reasons makes Baruuk better.

You know. I figured this was going to be a nice simple discussion of use acknowledging the strength and weaknesses of Baruuk. But it turns out you’re just like every other Baruuk main that doesn’t recognize just how weak SS really is.

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301
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On 2020-02-06 at 8:15 AM, kapn655321 said:

Desolate hands staggers enemies affected by Lull, delaying or preventing their sleep.

That's all I really care. They are both abilities that are activated and take a while to stop, and one of them stops the other. Their interaction must be reviewed.

But... Speeding up how Restraint cycles would be awesome as well. Increase how fast you remove restraint and how fast you lose it, while Serene Storm is active. Plus, why are we not losing Restraint while doing nothing? We are being pacifists and all!

And last, but not least, Baruuk became really enjoyable with the augment. It can do what Equinox during actual fights with ease, as long as he is alone or without people constantly spamming damaging Warframe abilities to remove the sleep.

Bombards and Napalms still one shot him tho, but Quick Thinking usually does the job to avoid this.

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8 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

 just want his 1 to not turn off when attacking. Its so stupid that he is the ONLY  Frame to be punished for attacking. 

So you are not being hit by any source in 360 radius, omg you are a frikking genius, That wouldnt be broken at all...  Do you even think before posting?

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8 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

 just want his 1 to not turn off when attacking. Its so stupid that he is the ONLY  Frame to be punished for attacking. 

There's also Ivara's Prowl, which turns off when using a non-silent weapon.

But anyway, the "pacifist" Frame being unique in that you're encouraged to not attack
[at least until all enemies nearby are disarmed / sleeping so you can murderize them with ease lol],
well whaddayaknow, that's kind of ever so slightly fitting his theme, I dare say.

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5 hours ago, Masakr said:

So you are not being hit by any source in 360 radius, omg you are a frikking genius, That wouldnt be broken at all...  Do you even think before posting?

Except he doesnt block AoE damage. So sure, that bombard rocket didnt directly hit you, but if your 3 isnt max charged you’re getting blown to high heaven. 
 

Also, to achieve 100% elude radius you have to have at least 2 mods dedicated to range, mods you therefore cant use for strength or such

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5 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

There's also Ivara's Prowl, which turns off when using a non-silent weapon.

But anyway, the "pacifist" Frame being unique in that you're encouraged to not attack
[at least until all enemies nearby are disarmed / sleeping so you can murderize them with ease lol],
well whaddayaknow, that's kind of ever so slightly fitting his theme, I dare say.

He is a reluctant fighter, not a pacifist. And no matter the theme, gameplay > background story, having him be only frame to lose defensive ability when attacking (ivara doesn’t count because her 4 and any silent weapons don't break prowl) is actively detrimental to how we have always played the game. It makes no sense. Baruuk is a reluctant fighter, not an idiot, but only an idiot would stop his defense while attacking. 

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