pet 2.0 feedback and suggestions from a dedicated 'breeder'

[morningstar999]

3 hours ago, Braneman said:

 

 

The main concern I have with the removal of stasis is pet health and Kubrow happiness, if they're all out all the time then I need to be feeding them DNA stabilizers and petting more than six dogs every day otherwise I have to spend a couple days getting them back up to full happiness because of the 3 interaction cap. I need some kind of assurance that is being looked into because that sounds like a lot of busywork for not a lot of rewards.

 

 

I think there was talk of changing this system for loyalty/health before? 

it will definitely not work without the stasis if it continues to decay every 24 hours (though I can't say ive seen loyalty decay all that much anymore?)  
 

 

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

On 2020-02-11 at 1:28 PM, morningstar999 said:

I think there was talk of changing this system for loyalty/health before? 

it will definitely not work without the stasis if it continues to decay every 24 hours (though I can't say ive seen loyalty decay all that much anymore?)  
 

 

Last time I let my Kubrow be left alone or die in a mission, loyalty still went down.

[SordidDreams]

On 2020-02-06 at 10:07 PM, morningstar999 said:

some are worried that this will make them too much like rivens. (aka the metta combo will be found out then people will only want that)

That's exactly what's going to happen, and it's by design. Some players will shell out real money for plat in order to trade for these imprints, which is what DE wants. WF is a free-to-play game, every game design decision has a "how do we maximize microtransactions" motive behind it.

[Avienas]

1 hour ago, SordidDreams said:

That's exactly what's going to happen, and it's by design. Some players will shell out real money for plat in order to trade for these imprints, which is what DE wants. WF is a free-to-play game, every game design decision has a "how do we maximize microtransactions" motive behind it.

The critical thing is, when a game prioritize earnings over player retention, they clearly give no fks about having the game last at all. Which considering warframe has been a long-lasting game and i do not recall D.E. having much involvement in any recent games, less someone can take the time to update me if they recently were involved in any new entries. It would be kind of bad for them to let what i assume is thar main source of revenue to lose players.

Because if less players are present in the game, that means whales will have less reason to stay with the game, because they will have fewer players to play with, fewer players to market with, fewer players who proficient at the game to work with on difficult content and especially content that REQUIRES full party groups, since we all know how fun it is to be stuck in situations where you cannot recruit a full party for something and there is no NPC function to fill the other slots...

Which we all know how fun it is to have npcs thats cannot be configured to do particular actions like being a dedicated healer or somehow commmand them to keep certain buffs on you constantly.

 

Imprint trading has always been a thing and D.E. needs to not push the envelop too much by adding these genetic bonuses, just because they are finally getting rid of stasis does not mean they need to put something else in its place. Which is just going to further make a solid argument that besides the eccentric nut-jobs, most will likely ignore then unless we get things thing as i have stated before, some rather b.s. install gimmicks like have the pets able to force-proc certain elemental debuffs or can actually increase the duration of buff abilities like how Tek Enhance does which makes it a valuable mod for using on Smeeta & Adarza.

....So yeah, Sheet that literally will make pets extremely useful in missions in general instead of it just be using carrier for loot case, the 2 kavat buffer siblings, where every other pet has nothing out-standing to make them much more important then those 3 pets, even if we take into account on wasting slots for `special augment mods for them`, that are exclusive to pets and likely we have other means to still use similar effects likely thru our operator or thru warframe abilities.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Avienas

[taiiat]

if pets were to gain traits and such from Breeding, i'd want pets to become full frankenstein and let me do real gene splicing so if i get a pet that i like the look of, i can keep refining that DNA sequence to add traits to it.

because if i'll need to breed ten thousand dogs to get one with the traits that i'd want AND to look the way i want at the same time - that'd be hella dumb.

 

yeah, basically let me metaphorically chop up dogs and cats into pieces to screw with their DNA and then sew them back together with different traits.

[Exodess]

I really want a way to change my Kubrow's energy color. I'm a dog person who adopts rescues, and really don't like the idea of discarding even virtual pets just to get the traits I want. Seeing as this is a video game, I should not be limited to genetics handling what is clearly a supernatural aesthetic value. >.>

I'm also not a fan of the idea of seeing my Sunika, that I've had since Kubrows first launched, be completed outdated by breeding. Not only would I be giving up something I'm rather attached to, but the 11 Forma I've pumped into it over the years as well. I'm sure others have made even bigger investments.

In regards to this breeding perk idea, I would like the ability to transplant genetic templates (for example, one purchased from another player) for the same breed into my existing Kubrow. This allows older pets like mine to compete with the newer bleeding-edge "does bonus damage to Grineer" pets that will clearly come out of this ordeal without forcing me to consign my companion to the Lotus. 😞

2 hours ago, Avienas said:

 Sheet that literally will make pets extremely useful in missions in general instead of it just be using carrier for loot case, the 2 kavat buffer siblings, where every other pet has nothing out-standing to make them much more important then those 3 pets, 

I've gotten very creative with my Kubrow over the years.

And while he is dumber than a box of rocks, useless is not a word I would ever use for him. 😄

He's collectively more useful than my Warframe's actual abilities. Go figure.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Exodess

[UghZug]

I really dislike how they went about the acquisition of [bite] or why it has so much utility compared to other companion mods.  It makes it a nearly mandatory mod for any attack related builds.  

Edited February 13, 2020 by UghZug

[Exodess]

7 minutes ago, UghZug said:

I really dislike how they went about the acquisition of [bite] or why it has so much utility compared to other companion mods.  It makes it a nearly mandatory mod for any attack related builds.  

Much like how damage / multishot is essential on weapons too, though they are generally easier to get.

[Avienas]

58 minutes ago, Exodess said:

I really want a way to change my Kubrow's energy color. I'm a dog person who adopts rescues, and really don't like the idea of discarding even virtual pets just to get the traits I want. Seeing as this is a video game, I should not be limited to genetics handling what is clearly a supernatural aesthetic value. >.>

I'm also not a fan of the idea of seeing my Sunika, that I've had since Kubrows first launched, be completed outdated by breeding. Not only would I be giving up something I'm rather attached to, but the 11 Forma I've pumped into it over the years as well. I'm sure others have made even bigger investments.

In regards to this breeding perk idea, I would like the ability to transplant genetic templates (for example, one purchased from another player) for the same breed into my existing Kubrow. This allows older pets like mine to compete with the newer bleeding-edge "does bonus damage to Grineer" pets that will clearly come out of this ordeal without forcing me to consign my companion to the Lotus. 😞

I've gotten very creative with my Kubrow over the years.

And while he is dumber than a box of rocks, useless is not a word I would ever use for him. 😄

He's collectively more useful than my Warframe's actual abilities. Go figure.

So for the most part you took advantage of things like how the Synth mods are suppose to only work on SENTINELS and can actually be used on beast companions and then using a high crit meme gun to get your pet to auto crit via link mods on top of status link mods and the fact that D.E. straight up gave absurdly high damage mods that justify them able to do decent damage.

Though i can applaud you for the creativity, you pretty much just did a setup so your pet can just turn itself into a auto-matic hunter munition meme.

....Too bad you threw out Fetch and had no room to get REALLY big brained by throwing in things like Flame gland so your pet could remove half the armor off of enemies to make it a massive terror-fest of being able to rip most of the armor off of grineer, slash proc them and have them get melee`d by a pet, Heat tick`d while panicking and slash tick`d to boot.

Though extra kudos to abusing the fact you also setup a way for your pet to spread slash procs, any status procs you put on the enemy, grant yourself armor, alongside the pet armor and basically make it  useful menance.

My statement still stands that pets are a mess to properly setup, due to lacking a proper claw bench and the fact that the freaking PRECEPT mods such as Mischief & Charm have not become innate mods for many pets kind of ruins the fun of using them. Since getting a pet who can give +60% additive crit or a pet that can double affinity/resource, auto fix your crits to 200%, apply instant reloads and many other effects, makes things absolutely silly on some ends.

 

Well, since i am done with the madness of grinding 16 kuva weapons with all 5 forma for the mastery and making sure i have every single acolyte mod this time so i can stop caring about them 100%, I might try and look into applying a similar setup with what you show, so hope you do not mind if i take notes of your ingenious use of mod setup that is due to D.E. once again letting `bugs` be present and never fixing them.

 

....Its a shame my go-to frame is Equinox prime, so i likely cannot take advantage of such fun of a build unless i decide to switch to my goatman, Rhino or other tankie frames to enjoy such fun potential. Also double sad that mecha mods cannot be equipped to helminth charger, one of the best potential doggos for this meme, due to it having innate toxin, which could allow it the potential for Viral or Corrosive builds.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Avienas

[Exodess]

 

20 minutes ago, Avienas said:

So for the most part you took advantage of things like how the Synth mods are suppose to only work on SENTINELS and can actually be used on beast companions and then using a high crit meme gun to get your pet to auto crit via link mods on top of status link mods and the fact that D.E. straight up gave absurdly high damage mods that justify them able to do decent damage.

Though i can applaud you for the creativity, you pretty much just did a setup so your pet can just turn itself into a auto-matic hunter munition meme.

Yes. And? 😄

I kid. But bear in mind that balance is something that doesn't really exist inside Warframe, so I can't really agree with seeing a problem with my approach since the game is all about bending the rules into a pretzel.

20 minutes ago, Avienas said:

....Too bad you threw out Fetch and had no room to get REALLY big brained by throwing in things like Flame gland so your pet could remove half the armor off of enemies to make it a massive terror-fest of being able to rip most of the armor off of grineer, slash proc them and have them get melee`d by a pet, Heat tick`d while panicking and slash tick`d to boot.

I appreciate the critique, but I have to point out that my pet can kill a level 135 Eximus Bombard in about 5 seconds by itself with its slash proc, so anything it attacks is going through an "omae wa mou shindeiru" moment if it isn't already dead on contact. In addition, if it attacks a target it has marked with Mecha set's perk, its pretty much guaranteed that when that target dies everything within 30m is going to die within 1 second afterwards as well due to the monstrous slash proc damage output.

My raw power output on my own weapons is such that stripping armor would be a waste of time as well, and we're talking hour-and-a-half long Arbitration Survivals. :)

20 minutes ago, Avienas said:

My statement still stands that pets are a mess to properly setup, due to lacking a proper claw bench and the fact that the freaking PRECEPT mods such as Mischief & Charm have not become innate mods for many pets kind of ruins the fun of using them. Since getting a pet who can give +60% additive crit or a pet that can double affinity/resource, auto fix your crits to 200%, apply instant reloads and many other effects, makes things absolutely silly on some ends.

 

Well, since i am done with the madness of grinding 16 kuva weapons with all 5 forma for the mastery and making sure i have every single acolyte mod this time so i can stop caring about them 100%, I might try and look into applying a similar setup with what you show, so hope you do not mind if i take notes of your ingenious use of mod setup that is due to D.E. once again letting `bugs` be present and never fixing them.

 

....Its a shame my go-to frame is Equinox prime, so i likely cannot take advantage of such fun of a build unless i decide to switch to my goatman, Rhino or other tankie frames to enjoy such fun potential. Also double sad that mecha mods cannot be equipped to helminth charger, one of the best potential doggos for this meme, due to it having innate toxin, which could allow it the potential for Viral or Corrosive builds.

I feel your pain. I concur that pets are indeed a mess to set up, functionally busted and otherwise inane to build. My Sunika's abilities needs love like my Valkyr's abilities need to not be rendered redundant by every other mechanic that's been introduced in the past few years.
 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Exodess

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Exodess said:

He's collectively more useful than my Warframe's actual abilities. Go figure.

ofcourse it is, since you Modded everything for your dog and didn't Mod your own Abilities. that seems like the expected result then.

[Exodess]

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

ofcourse it is, since you Modded everything for your dog and didn't Mod your own Abilities. that seems like the expected result then.

Plus, you know, Valkyr's abilities besides her #2 (Warcry) are pretty worthless, and even the #2 can be made situational. 😄 The whole reason I built the Kubrow the way I did was because her base stats (particularly her armor) synergize very well with the Mecha set.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Exodess

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Exodess said:

Valkyr's abilities besides her #3 (Warcry) are pretty worthless

the Prosecution rests, your honor.

 

 

and anyways, i don't see any problems with Modding choices being complicated and having many good avenues to follow, like how Dogs/Cats are currently. more Mods available that are useful than there are Slots, many good choices.

[Exodess]

 

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

and anyways, i don't see any problems with Modding choices being complicated and having many good avenues to follow, like how Dogs/Cats are currently. more Mods available that are useful than there are Slots, many good choices.

Fixed my typo from earlier (must have had Paralysis on my mind when I was talking about Warcry). :) Anyway, pet mod sets are pretty fun for the Johnny players like myself who love creative solutions over FOTMs. Sadly not all experiments work out as successfully as pet sets do.

That said, I agree with the majority the pet rework has been a long time coming. I'm just concerned about more "fixed" elements with performance boosts being introduced the breeding expansion that'll make existing pets obsolete.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Exodess

[taiiat]

20 minutes ago, Exodess said:

I'm just concerned about more "fixed" elements with performance boosts being introduced the breeding expansion that'll make existing pets obsolete.

if you could disassemble your pet to screw with its DNA and then put it back together, that absolves that issue.
and it's wayyyyyyy cooler than the likely alternative that we'd get which would be basically like Liches. >.>

 

 

20 minutes ago, Exodess said:

Fixed my typo from earlier

typo or not though, it's still patently false.

Edited February 13, 2020 by taiiat

[Exodess]

12 minutes ago, taiiat said:

typo or not though, it's still patently false.

Alright, please explain your version of Valkyr to me because I think we have very different views on the Warframe.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Exodess

[taiiat]

15 minutes ago, Exodess said:

Alright, please explain your version of Valkyr to me because I think we have very different views on the Warframe.

indeed you might, having things such as Vigorous Swap Equipped makes it seem like you're expecting a Melee type Warframe to benefit your Guns.
that's the explanation i can come up with for one not finding the mainly Melee focused Abilities being useful.

Edited February 13, 2020 by taiiat

[Exodess]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

indeed you might, having things such as Vigorous Swap Equipped makes it seem like you're expecting a Melee type Warframe to benefit your Guns.
that's the explanation i can come up with for one not finding the mainly Melee focused Abilities being useful.

That makes since, and thank you for replying.

Vigorous Swap is used to synergize with with the Kuva Chakkhurr which bolsters its insane attack power further, alongside an Akarius for wiping out weak clusters of enemies at a range or to take out those annoying flying targets such as the Arbitration Drones. Both weapons hardly need to be aimed to hit a target and are useful for picking off something across the room, minimizing TTK. They're both built for status as well, which is great for hitting a target my Kubrow has flagged.

I also took the time to read up on your posts in the Valkyr rework thread to get a better understanding of our differing viewpoints and see that you are very intelligent and passionate about this topic. From what I learned, I am of the opinion you're probably very inclined toward the Warcry/Paralysis design philosophy, which is traditionally solid. My view is that while this does work, it doesn't work as well as it should in light of recent gameplay changes and has become dated. In my eyes, the primary thing that hasn't been entirely outdated with it is its unique leverage with armor values (hence my rather inane but effective Kubrow-and-weapon-perk-based design). 

That said, in my view, Valkyr's ability redundancies stem from the following: 

• Rip Line lost much of its raw mobility benefit when Bullet Jumping came around, and its combat usefulness is eclipsed by any number of options given its animation lock and fairly long animation cycle. Rip Line should be an expedient distance-bridging tool, but right now it feels more like a supplement rather than a preferable alternative.
• Warcry would be much more useful as a toggle than a click, given the debuff it puts on enemies only works on the immediate cast. And while it is largely the most useful ability, it also has poor energy economy and does not last long by default, and so requires specific modding concepts to make useful in a general sense.
• Paralysis' baseline stagger functionality has long since become more easily replaced by the standard melee ground-slams, as their effects are not so easily shrugged off if the enemy is already suffering a different stun animation (and ground finishers are generally stronger or have more perks based on the weapon type such as a guaranteed slash proc). The augment also becomes redundant if you're packing a Exodia Hunt on an appropriate Zaw (which both frees up a Warframe mod slot and with the right weapon/stance can cluster enemies consistently and more quickly -- which also synergizes especially well with the Kubrow build I outlined). Base Paralysis is pretty much busted per the aforementioned animation bug and alternative finisher method, so I feel the skill deserves an overhaul.
• Hysteria's invulnerability and damage output can be made redundant with some smart mod design elsewhere. It can be designed as a situational weapon, but there's usually faster options available. I believe Hysteria would benefit from being split into two components -- a quick-attack component and a sustained component similar to what it has now. It is far too situational as it stands.

I see these problems further exacerbated by Valkyr's long ability activation animations, which are about twice as long as they should be for a high-activity frame and put the player into animation lock while casting (which is why I have Natural Talent, as I prefer to use Warcry situationally for its slowing component and to mark hard-to-see targets among the piles of corpses laying around, as well as to avoid dealing with Eternal War's upkeep). I would also debate that the reason much of Valkyr's ability mechanics are these days so readily duplicated elsewhere in the game is because they are pretty bog-standard QoL combat behaviors and the frame itself got left behind as these perks were doled out.

Having said my part, if you'd like we can probably carry this over to that rework thread since there are some very good ideas floating around that I hope DE will explore. 

---

Back to the Kubrow discussion - I'm still very much on board with the opinions here. Particularly since I view companions as an extension of my Warframe's functionality rather than a passive boon.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Exodess

[SordidDreams]

8 hours ago, Avienas said:

The critical thing is, when a game prioritize earnings over player retention, they clearly give no fks about having the game last at all. Which considering warframe has been a long-lasting game and i do not recall D.E. having much involvement in any recent games, less someone can take the time to update me if they recently were involved in any new entries. It would be kind of bad for them to let what i assume is thar main source of revenue to lose players.

The thing is, DE know WF isn't going to last forever. Steve said in his interview with Mogamu that he believes the life of an online game has a parabolic shape to it, where it gains popularity at first and then gradually loses it. If you look at the Steam Charts page for WF it's pretty clear WF has entered the latter phase. In the first phase devs concentrate on building the player base, in the latter phase they concentrate on squeezing what player base they have left for as much money as possible. It's only going to get worse from now on.

[Exodess]

2 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

The thing is, DE know WF isn't going to last forever. Steve said in his interview with Mogamu that he believes the life of an online game has a parabolic shape to it, where it gains popularity at first and then gradually loses it. If you look at the Steam Charts page for WF it's pretty clear WF has entered the latter phase. In the first phase devs concentrate on building the player base, in the latter phase they concentrate on squeezing what player base they have left for as much money as possible. It's only going to get worse from now on.

That's a discouraging thought.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Exodess

[xcrimsonlegendx]

As someone who's got a mod slot on his frame dedicated to a strain mod, I really hope those maggots get a massive buff. The mod that lets you eat the dead ones for health is useless. A lot of them do very little and the maggots themselves aren't that great either. Instead of a max of eight, maybe up it to 12 or something and then buff their damage. Or make them work in tandem with Nidus' maggots.

[morningstar999]

2 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

The thing is, DE know WF isn't going to last forever. Steve said in his interview with Mogamu that he believes the life of an online game has a parabolic shape to it, where it gains popularity at first and then gradually loses it. If you look at the Steam Charts page for WF it's pretty clear WF has entered the latter phase. In the first phase devs concentrate on building the player base, in the latter phase they concentrate on squeezing what player base they have left for as much money as possible. It's only going to get worse from now on.

only reason player base is on the decline is because they barely did any new content last year and what they did bring out was a total buggy mess people didn't have fun playing as it was broken. 

*this is fine emote* 

Edited February 13, 2020 by morningstar999

[morningstar999]

on a related note, being able to get your kubrow/kavat to do the animations they do in the ship in capture would be a really cute addition. 
 

also fixing the pet animations that have basically been broken since operators where allowed to pet them would be a nice fix. 
half the time I either pet an invisible kubrow or it's neck snaps. 

 

also the moonless kavat skins feet are concerningly painfully broken, and discloscate from the body.

 

[Daffan]

On 2020-02-08 at 11:54 PM, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

You should say that to players which prefer Smeeta, would be interesting to see some Statistics of Companions usage before rework and then. I’m absolutely OK with Kubrows now, but I have worries that lots of players are expecting from, with high hopes, a miracle, but it can easily hit pattern of most reworks: not more but less players will use them.

Smeeta, like Nekros is just so OP that most ppl feel forced to use it, if they are using a non-sentinel. 

 

  

11 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

The thing is, DE know WF isn't going to last forever. Steve said in his interview with Mogamu that he believes the life of an online game has a parabolic shape to it, where it gains popularity at first and then gradually loses it. If you look at the Steam Charts page for WF it's pretty clear WF has entered the latter phase. In the first phase devs concentrate on building the player base, in the latter phase they concentrate on squeezing what player base they have left for as much money as possible. It's only going to get worse from now on.

 

Possibly.

 

Railjack was a huge investment/gamble for them, not something you'd see in a later stage sort of thing. 

 

They even stated they'l never make a WF2, just make WF better -- like DX12 and platforms for future gfx and other evolutions. 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Daffan

[SordidDreams]

8 minutes ago, Daffan said:

Railjack was a huge investment/gamble for them, not something you'd see in a later stage sort of thing.

Well, that kinda depends. Maybe RJ is a sign that DE know what they're doing and that WF is not dying. Or maybe RJ is sign that DE don't know what they're doing and wasted precious resources on a boondoggle that can't save a dying game. Time will tell, I guess.

Edited February 13, 2020 by SordidDreams