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Exalted weapons are no longer good

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Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You said you weren’t going to reply again you liar.

So you do admit you have no arguments. I rest my case.

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6 minutes ago, TearsOfTomorrow said:

So you do admit you have no arguments. I rest my case.

I skimmed through your stuff as I was deleting it. Saw you say I had a point. So I don’t really need to argue anymore if you agree that exalted weapons shouldn’t suck just because they have a gimmick.

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17 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Saw you say I had a point

I never said that. One more falsehood for your tally I guess.

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For me, exalted weapons differ from normal weapons only in that they give a certain playstyle to the player and are scaled from the strength frame. But, conventional weapons, such as Knell or Mutalist Quanta with augment, also give playstyle. The frame damage buff is also scaled with the frame strength. So, the problem seems to be that normal weapons have become better or more fun than exalted weapons, which is why there is no need for such abilities. They just exist for those players who love their gameplay and this is their only purpose.

 

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3 hours ago, TearsOfTomorrow said:

I never said that. One more falsehood for your tally I guess.

You said my reasoning is not wrong. And if my reason for something is good then it stands to reason that whatever said reasons were directed towards are also not wrong.

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15 hours ago, NinjaKitsune56 said:

Valkyr/Prime's talons are fairly weak, I admit. I've had better luck simply shredding the enemy with Dual Keres or Dual Raza, and not just because I've turned them into crit blenders with their rivens.

They are actually stronger now than before. The Umbra steel buff and the range buff makes it that you can 1 shot level 100 enemies with slide attack (and rarely missing due to range). However, a melee weapon with 12x will deal way more damage. The advantage that claws have is that you are invulnerable and no need to builds stacks. It is good for level 100 bosses and Kuva liches. The skill is niche, but good way to deal damage when you need invulnerability. 

I think both Excalibar and Wukong have it worse (I do not not about Barauk). Their exalted weapons do not benefit as much from Umbra steel and offer nothing but damage.

In any case, yes, all exalted weapons need a buff.

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I think the only way to buff exalted melee is if you can use all melee mods on them but DE wont allow this.

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Exalted blade are no longer effective! It desperately needs better care and better treatment. Today the effect is ridiculous and it is not worth playing with warframes with exalted weapons. I get really sad about it. My Excalibur is failing at the highest stages and I am harming my team of friends who play with me, therefore. I play Warframe, precisely because I have the freedom to play with and the way I want to. If I start to force myself to play in certain ways because otherwise I can't overcome the challenge, I will stop playing the game and look for a better one.

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If they just added a way for exalted abilities to benefit from combo in some way (aside from heavy attacks) that could alleviate some of the issues.

 

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33 minutes ago, TamePingu said:

If they just added a way for exalted abilities to benefit from combo in some way (aside from heavy attacks) that could alleviate some of the issues.

Or give them the same sized buff as regular melee weapons did.

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On 2020-02-06 at 11:22 PM, TearsOfTomorrow said:

Wukong's big range that lets him knock down everyone in an area (TWO areas in fact, courtesy of the clone),

Except that's not how it works...

His range is neither "big" nor is his knockdown remotely efficient or unique, and the clone is simply not going provide any benefit at all in this regard.

You're making the Iron Staff out to be something that it's not, when literally all it is is a basic melee weapon with a unique moveset that can't equip acolytes mods or Rivens and costs an extortionate amount of energy for the privilege.

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On 2020-02-07 at 4:56 PM, Dr.DC said:

Exalted blade are no longer effective! It desperately needs better care and better treatment. Today the effect is ridiculous and it is not worth playing with warframes with exalted weapons. I get really sad about it. My Excalibur is failing at the highest stages and I am harming my team of friends who play with me, therefore. I play Warframe, precisely because I have the freedom to play with and the way I want to. If I start to force myself to play in certain ways because otherwise I can't overcome the challenge, I will stop playing the game and look for a better one.

Chromatic blade on Excal Umbra.

sac pressure and steel, organ shatter, berserker, healing return (optional but personally recommended), voltaic strike, virulent scourge, volcanic edge.
 

Have zero issues killing enemies with exalted blade. Can’t say the same for the other exalted melees tho.

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

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I guess DE keeps the Exalted weapons as they are to try and cut down on people just using energy pizzas and swooshing through levels mindlessly, which i still see a fair few Excaliburs doing. IMO, they should be made a tad more situational: give them absolutely ludicrous damage, but greatly increase the energy cost per swing. rather than swooshing through a whole mission, you reserve your exalted weapon for a few quick and deadly attacks on those tough opponents when you need them dead in a pinch.

I think it might also be worth giving frames with exalted weapons a separate energy meter just for hose weapons, so you can spam your other abilities as needed, while still able to use an exalted if it's needed. this "exalted energy" would be used each time you fire/swing an exalted weapon, and would be regained simply via kills, just as how special attack meters work in other games. you get the best of both worlds, without needing to swoosh erratically through every mission!

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8 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

I guess DE keeps the Exalted weapons as they are to try and cut down on people just using energy pizzas

You already can't nom on Energy Pizzas due to the skills all being channeled and neutering most forms of energy restoration.

And if this is the case, why, when its evident that energy isn't a problem for keeping these abilities running, have DE not attempted something else to stop the above from happening?

No no, I'm of the opinion it's just one of those things they have no idea what to do with, so they don't bother.

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Literally this entire idiotic thread can be skipped by keeping in mind the fact that the game is not, and never will be, balanced around level 150 enemies. Only an extremely small portion of the player base actually cares about going above the level that is actually mandated by the mission. I’d wager less than 1% of players even give a damn about endurance runs. So arguing about what is and isn’t good at level 150+ is pointless. It doesn’t matter. Hell, the game wasn’t even really balanced beyond level 60. The only reason we are able to go higher is because of blatant power creep. DE will never balance the game around a multi-hour survival runs.

Valkyr’s Talons are more than adequate all the way to level 5 lich missions. If all you are doing is just standing there spamming basic melee attack over and over again, you are using Hysteria wrong. And Exalted Blade with the augment and a corrosion build is hilariously powerful.

I’ll not speak to the other exalted melees because I don’t use those frames much (Diwata is bad but it’s always been bad). But the point is, in any content that actually matters, exalted weapons are still very very powerful.

Edited by (PS4)sister-hawk
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On 2020-02-08 at 6:15 PM, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

But the point is, in any content that actually matters, exalted weapons are still very very powerful.

No there is not.

My Nikana Prime does way more damage than my exalted blade.

With the way the current melee system is there is no point in using exalted blade, or iron staff in my opinion.

Sure they are usable, but they are also inferior to a lot of the current melee weapons.

Edited by (XB1)Togashi

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Just now, (XB1)Togashi said:

No there not.

My Nikana Prime does way more damage than my exalted blade.

With the way the current melee system is there is no point in using exalted blade, or iron staff in my opinion.

Sure they are usable, but they are also inferior to a lot of the current melee weapons.

I will not bother to refute your claim, because frankly I don’t care. However, “does less damage” does not equate to “sucks and is worthless.” What does it matter what the damage number is when everything dies in one hit/0.5 seconds anyway?

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18 minutes ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

I’ll not speak to the other exalted melees because I don’t use those frames much

Then how can you call the entire thread idiotic, I wonder, when you claim to only be speaking in relevance to two frames.

18 minutes ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

But the point is, in any content that actually matters, exalted weapons are still very very powerful.

Sure, but they should be the most powerful.

In what universe does someone go super saiyan, expend energy to summon their personal weapon, and have it actually be worse than or equal to a common stick?

5 minutes ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

I will not bother to refute your claim, because frankly I don’t care.

2 posts in and you already don't care. Not a very good outlook when starting an argument.

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Exalted Blade certainly is so-so if you use only the Waves. it's more competitive if you're in actual Melee Range since it deals double the hits & Damage when you're in actual Melee Range.
that plus certain options that were restricted previously, such as being able to use Gladiator Set now.

 

On 2020-02-06 at 5:43 PM, NinjaKitsune56 said:

Valkyr/Prime's talons are fairly weak, I admit.

they have always been 'weak', technically. the only attack worth doing technically is beyblading through everything with Slide Attacks at Mach 5. since Hysterias' Slide Attack deals 18x Damage in an AoE.

On 2020-02-07 at 4:24 AM, TearsOfTomorrow said:

The only kind of content in this game that requires a specific set-up to be overcome, and thus has a true-blue "meta", is Eidolon fights.

unless you're talking about Amps/Focus, Eidolon Hunting is relatively flexible, lots of Equipment can be used and still complete sessions expediently.
if you're saying you have to use specific Warframes/Weapons though, you're just objectively wrong and uninformed.

 

 

 

On 2020-02-06 at 6:07 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Serene Storm [...] And it’s augment is trash.

you're joking, right? the Serene Storm Augment significantly increases your overall Damage, and can offer new Status Effects that you otherwise couldn't have simultaneously without it.

On 2020-02-06 at 6:13 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Eeeeh, I have found zero CO builds that perform better than my crit builds with Primed pressure point. So to call it an endgame giant is a pretty big overstatement.

why are you picking one or the other. were you also picking one or the other before U26? using both has always been the way to deal the most Damage, unquestionably. any Melee Weapon gets objectively better by using Condition Overload vs not, just as they are objectively better stacking Crits from Hit Counter.

 

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On 2020-02-06 at 3:17 PM, (PS4)BlightDragon89 said:

I have not noticed that they are significantly weaker. That being said, if you are feeling that hey are weaker, try looking up a youtube guide on the ones you want to use. I find that exalted weapons are a bit more nich then other weapons. They are really about synergy between the exalted weapon and the rest of the warframes kit. That might be way is tripping you up.

They're objectively weaker and the video demonstrates that pretty well. Excalibur for example, sure he can blind enemies for that stealth damage and sure exalted blade can still be good... but it doesnt seem right that regular melee weapons without a riven (let alone with) can outperform it. 

On 2020-02-06 at 3:59 PM, lukinu_u said:

Haven't watched the video, but Exalted weapons are bad since Blood Rush exist.
Sure, Exalted Weapons could compete with a few status oriented weapons with Conditon Overload, but crit or hybrid build (on weapons that allow it) was super good and it was possible because of Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds, and they are not usable on Exalted weapons.

With melee 3.0 and different mods not stacking together anymore (Blood Rush with other crit mods, Conditon Overload with Pressure Point, etc...), the build diversity felt down and hybrid build is by far what provide the best output, but only if you can use combo based mods, which isn't possible on Exalted Weapons, so they aren't really bad, but can't use mods that make a weapon strong, it at simple as this.

They should either adjust the base stats of exalted weapons or allow those mods to work imo.

On 2020-02-06 at 4:02 PM, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

Exalted weapons are more situational than anything else, Excalibur's exalted blade is mostly useful against sentient enemies as they struggle to adapt to it. Otherwise standard weapons would be more useful overall. 

And I think that's silly. Exalted blade costs energy to use. It's an ability specific to excalibur. If I can use a melee weapon that's straight up better 99% of the time for no energy cost why even bother with it? I'm "meh" on the sentient thing as well because radial howl is spammable and resets resistances anyway.

On 2020-02-06 at 4:09 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Then you have been living under a rock. Iron Staff went from literally melting enemies to barely scratching them.

Yeah. It's a shame it went from being meh to godly to meh again. 

On 2020-02-06 at 4:22 PM, TearsOfTomorrow said:

Yeah, this is horsecrap, plain and simple. Oh sure, those regular melee weapons you mentioned can indeed pump out higher numbers, meaning that, against a level 150 corrupted heavy gunner with AI pauses in the simulacrum, they're gonna take 0.005 seconds less to score the kill. However, that fails to account for 3 factors:

1) You're never going to fight such an enemy in any realistic game mode.

2) If you do go long enough in Survival to run into such an enemy, the difference in kill time is not going to be significant. It WOULD be significant if you were to face a PACK of corrupted heavy gunners, in which case every fraction of a second counts, because you need to kill them all before they start chain-knocking you down... But guess what? That's not how Warframe spawns enemies: rather, what you will face is a pack of trash enemies with just one or two heavy units among them. And to deal with such a group, most (properly modded) exalted weapons are more than sufficient. 

3) In any given realistic mission, with an actual objective attached to it, kill time rarely is the most important factor (unless you're "competing" with your teammates to be the "I'm the best player because I got all the kills", but if you're doing that you're stupid and I don't account for stupid in my arguments). Rather, utility effects/abilities that directly contribute to whatever you're trying to accomplish in the mission are MUCH more valuable: in this context, Excal's infinite punch through and ability to break crates through walls, Mesa's ability to create a "everyone who enters this radius gets locked on and sprayed with bullet" area, Wukong's big range that lets him knock down everyone in an area (TWO areas in fact, courtesy of the clone), Baruuk's ability to blow away anyone he doesn't put to sleep, Ivara's alt fire that lets her use the special arrows from her Quiver for no additional energy cost, and Titania's evasiveness and mobility are going to prove integral to a number of strategies and tactical approaches in plenty of situations, on top of dealing 10000 damage. Whereas the weapons buffed by the new system can deal 10005 damage, but they really only have that.

So no, just because regular weapons had their damage increased it doesn't mean that exalted weapons are suddenly bad. In fact, it's quite the opposite: these improvements to regular weapons have made better, in terms of game design, the exalted weapons too, in that they've made them more engaging by way of adding an element of choice to them. Mod your exalted to emphasize the utility aspect, and your regular weapons for sheer min-maxed damage, and then switch between the two depending on what the situation at hand calls for. It's called strategic thinking: the issue with Grind Hard Squad, and many other such youtubers, is that their videos often encourage players to discard strategic thinking and instead rely on a "THIS IS THE BEST BUILD EVER USE THIS AND YOU'LL WIN AT EVERYTHING" kind of mentality, which is not what this game was designed to do. Such people only look at the raw damage numbers but again, those are not all there is to missions, and how to best use the tools at your disposal to complete them.

The only point I will concede is that Valkyr's claws are quickly growing stale and outdated... But then again, Valkyr as a whole is growing stale and outdated. Her kit was designed around a specific mentality, but the game has since evolved past said mentality, making it obsolete and Valkyr along with it. She definitely could use a rework.

1) maybe you wouldnt. 

2) I disagree. And even if the difference isnt "that much" by your standard it doesnt make sense from a design standpoint. An exalted weapon only available to one warframe, that drains energy and is subject to being canceled by nullifier bubbles and arbitration drones, shouldnt be objectively worse than several melee weapons any frame can use that dont have those drawbacks. I'm not asking for SUPER OP GODLY DAMAGE here I just want them to be on par or slightly better. 

3) trump wants to use the rest of that post for his wall.

On 2020-02-06 at 4:46 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I genuinely with an undying fury hate when people say “Oh exalted weapons have different utility, so it’s ok for them to do terrible damage”. There is zero benefit to Iron Staffs large range if it literally can’t kill anything. There’s no point in using Serene Storm for its CC because Ragdoll CC is worst CC, just use his 2. Literally everybody would stop using Artemis bows instant cast of quiver is a utility feature that shouldn’t require casting a 4th ability to use exclusively use with no additional benefit, that’s why the weapons so strong. Dodging enemies in razorwing would be completely pointless if you’re suddenly unable to kill the enemies because your gun is too weak.

The very idea that DE should just leave exalted melees to rot because “they offer unique functions” is downright insane. How would you feel if DE nerfed every Damage ability in the game on the simple merit of “Oh well they all deal damage in different unique ways so it only made sense”? Cap Equinox to only dealing 10 damage with main because it scales off enemies killed. Make Virulence only scale in range instead of damage for every mutation stack. Make WhipClaw only puncture proc enemies and only scale off Melee Prowess and no other melee modes. Gee, those damage ability ideas must be pretty f***ing amazing since their so unique.

 

I agree with this 100%

 

 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

I will not bother to refute your claim, because frankly I don’t care. However, “does less damage” does not equate to “sucks and is worthless.” What does it matter what the damage number is when everything dies in one hit/0.5 seconds anyway?

The real question is why SHOULD exalted blade be worse than a regular melee weapon? What's the point of that?

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On 2020-02-07 at 8:48 AM, (PS4)thegarada said:

They are actually stronger now than before. The Umbra steel buff and the range buff makes it that you can 1 shot level 100 enemies with slide attack (and rarely missing due to range). However, a melee weapon with 12x will deal way more damage. The advantage that claws have is that you are invulnerable and no need to builds stacks. It is good for level 100 bosses and Kuva liches. The skill is niche, but good way to deal damage when you need invulnerability. 

I think both Excalibar and Wukong have it worse (I do not not about Barauk). Their exalted weapons do not benefit as much from Umbra steel and offer nothing but damage.

In any case, yes, all exalted weapons need a buff.

I think Excalibur's exalted blade is still really #*!%in strong, now wukong yes, his exalted weaon took a hell of a hit, but Excalibur's weapon is still really strong. Its cool and all but why...I really liked wukong, but this melee rework killed the poor guy. Why does only Excalibur get away from this nearly unscathed?

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15 minutes ago, taiiat said:

 

you're joking, right? the Serene Storm Augment significantly increases your overall Damage, and can offer new Status Effects that you otherwise couldn't have simultaneously without it.

why are you picking one or the other. were you also picking one or the other before U26? using both has always been the way to deal the most Damage, unquestionably. any Melee Weapon gets objectively better by using Condition Overload vs not, just as they are objectively better stacking Crits from Hit Counter.

 

It’s trash because it requires a direct hit to kick off the damage adaptation and it specifies that LITERALLY NOWHERE! And  Baruuk already has 1 hoop to jump through to even use Serene Storm. He doesn’t need another for it to actually do damage. The waves should be adapting their damage to each enemy they’re hitting from the very start.

I found replacing CO with primed reach to be a far more effective option as a lot of times it seems to help boost the rate of gaining combo.

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Isn't the simple fix to get rid of the mod restrictions and make the Stances grant additional capacity? I mean at least as a first step. 

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Of the Warframes I am familiar with, Exalted Blade, and Mesa's Pew Pew Pew are still very powerful, with the main difference being that my Rivened Dragon Nikana now does comparable damage instead of just falling off completely beyond a certain level/armor value. I find Valkyr's Claws, Ivara's Bow, and Titania's Guns generally lacking in damage potential; An argument can be made that Valkyr becoming invincible for her Exalted weapon limits the amount of damage they should be able to do, and I have long been in favor of a rework divorces her claws from her invincibility. I would like Ivara/Titania to be more powerful, although they are perfectly fine for the level of challenge you normally encounter in game. I don't have.. Barruk? Barrock? PaciFIST-Frame to really comment on him... 

Focusing on Exalted Blade; Nikana does very good damage, especially with its' charge attack since the overhead swing often lines up for a headshot doing meaty damage. Exalted Blade still has tremendous crowd control, damage, and healing thanks to the synergy between Chromatic Blade, Condition Overload, and Healing Return. The attack animations are also much more fluid and is able to transition from standing to movement and everything in-between much better than Nikana or most non-EB weapons can. It obviously has a massive range advantage. Energy Consumption concerns are mostly mitigated through an EHP/Armor build with Hunter Adrenaline. I rock two Arcane Grace on top of this, so I expect my perspective on that con is divergent from most people who don't have them, although I don't really think they are necessary either; Healing Return and my cat do most of my healing. 

The build in the video is not bad, although it appears to be missing a core understanding of Condition Overload: He appears to be using corrosive exclusively and would find his damage ramps up much more dramatically with another element like Heat which reduces enemy armor by 50%, stops them from attacking, and takes advantage of Condition Overloads damage bonus by adding in another elemental source; All this would require is a color palette swap to the heat element with Chromatic Blade. At 100% status chance it should be trivial to proc everything the Exalted Blade can do, so it doesn't make sense not to capitalize on Chromatic Blades unique synergies.

Un-optimized condition overload aside, he is still doing tremendous damage in his own video and I can't help but find the formatting suspicious. For whatever reason he demonstrates the Exalted Blade by swinging it once, very slowly, at a level 140 Heavy Grineer Bombard and still takes off 3/4th's of its' HP in a single strike; If he was attacking at a normal speed like any other person in the game would be doing those enemies would be melted faster than he could make his argument. Meanwhile he shows the Nikana being played normally and it, unsurprisingly, does very well. Aside from this there is nothing else in his video that really demonstrates his argument; He simply states things and then expands upon them as if they were true without actually proving his statement. Add in a click-bait title and you have pretty unconvincing argument of buffing something that is already monstrously powerful. 

As an Excalibur Main for... awhile now, I can't agree with the argument that Exalted Blade in particular is doing poorly compared to "normal" melee weapons. My Dragon Nikana is dramatically more viable now, and is perfectly serviceable in high level content. That said the Exalted Blade has so many utility advantages that I still consider Nikana a back-up melee weapon for when my energy is suddenly depleted rather than a preferable option for all encounters. Exalted Blade already does so much damage that buffing it further seems laughable, although ultimately meaningless; It's not like one-shotting enemies harder makes them more dead after all. 
 

Edited by Acos

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