Buff Garuda

[(XBOX)IMM0RTALBLUD]

Used it a couple of times, was really fun at first, then it felt weak, healing felt weak, radial damage slash but seemed weak... am I missing something or does Garuda need a buff? it would be fitting for garuda to have insane capability similar to gara as they are both obtained from PoE and the vallis

did not bother using forma because it did not seem worth it, i thought that blood alter should be more powerful in all aspects and also I think i recall the dread mirror bomb has really bad range even at 265% which in turn makes me sacrifice strength which makes the other abilities become hindered badly

Saryn can pull this -strength thing off and be successful in its role in the team up to around level 100 right? 

Garuda on d other hand whom has one ability to heal others which is like a bad version of wisps vitality mote (wisp makes a lot of frames need a buff I bet), and another ability which gives energy at a cost of health that is not that useful considering energizing dash exists and that you may be inclined to use 1/8 of your mod slots for quick thinking (like dude), another ability that has a terrible jus terrible explosion range (however good damage and a dope augment, I love it) and an ultimate that only hits enemies that are in front of you, similar to how i remember excal rework years and years ago (bad news).

I think garuda needs a buff lol what do you got to say on this topic? i know some will disagree saying all is well but with things how they are going to be in the coming months idk man i think garuda needs a big buff or maybe some ability rework if it isnt too much trouble!

 

[GPrime96]

> Me soloing Mot up to 380+ at Mot as her while having the % Healing and slash Procs for the Squad

> someone want to buff her a lot

Ok then?

Edited February 8, 2020 by GPrime96

[taiiat]

seeing as Garuda is designed to be able to apply Slash Status from a Base Damage of several hundreds of thousands, like Antimatter Drop without a cap (so OG Antimatter Drop);
plus has the strongest non instant Healing Ability in the game (so Blessing still outperforms it since you get DR and it is a 100% Heal), and is able to make Energy whenever she pleases...
not to mention has an unbreakable Shield that protects against the majority of incoming Damage...

well that really sums that up doesn't it.

 

Vitality Mote is only any good because it increases your Max Health. though that only protects you against Spike Damage once in a while since the Healing is pretty slow.

[GPrime96]

25 minutes ago, taiiat said:

though that only protects you against Spike Damage once in a while since the Healing is pretty slow.

^Big problem with flat Healing.

[TearsOfTomorrow]

1 hour ago, (XB1)IMM0RTALBLUD said:

am I missing something

 

1 hour ago, (XB1)IMM0RTALBLUD said:

did not bother using forma

Why yes, yes you're missing something.

[(XBOX)IMM0RTALBLUD]

...

2 hours ago, TearsOfTomorrow said:

 

Why yes, yes you're missing something.

 

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

seeing as Garuda is designed to be able to apply Slash Status from a Base Damage of several hundreds of thousands, like Antimatter Drop without a cap (so OG Antimatter Drop);
plus has the strongest non instant Healing Ability in the game (so Blessing still outperforms it since you get DR and it is a 100% Heal), and is able to make Energy whenever she pleases...
not to mention has an unbreakable Shield that protects against the majority of incoming Damage...

well that really sums that up doesn't it.

 

Vitality Mote is only any good because it increases your Max Health. though that only protects you against Spike Damage once in a while since the Healing is pretty slow.

 

3 hours ago, GPrime96 said:

> Me soloing Mot up to 380+ at Mot as her while having the % Healing and slash Procs for the Squad

> someone want to buff her a lot

Ok then?

hm ok people, i will spend.

[TearsOfTomorrow]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)IMM0RTALBLUD said:

...

 

 

hm ok people, i will spend.

Look, lemme elaborate on that a bit. The issue with Garuda is that there are many, and I do mean MANY, mods that can help in unlocking her true potential... So naturally that means that you need to experiment a lot in order to find the configuration that works for you, but since many of said mods take a lot of space, you're not going to be able to experiment that well if you don't invest some forma.

She needs Str, as everything she does scales off that: however, she doesn't really want to dump Dur nor Ran, as both denefit her one way or another. Gladiator mods might be a good idea on her because you cannot use blood rush on her claws, and then there is the Rage+Flow+Quick Thinking combo: Garuda is unarguably THE frame to go if you want to use that combo, her kit aligns so perfectly with it.

So yeah, as you can see that's a lot of mod space. Without multiple forma you're not going to be able to fit everything, and even then you'll need to make a decision.

In short, Garuda is a "high reward for high investment" kind of frame. She can reach a point where she's VERY good, but it's going to take a lot of effort for you to get there. Which, by the way, is the reason why so many people sleep on her: since other frames can achieve the same power level for a fraction of the investment, people just go for those and don't bother with Garuda. But if you're willing to put in that extra effort she'll prove very rewarding. 

Wanna see some sample builds for reference?

[Birdframe_Prime]

What you have to get your head around with Garuda is that she really is mechanics based, not stats based.

There is only one relevant stat to ensure full combination of her abilities; 201% Strength. At that level of Strength, Garuda's 4 inflicts guaranteed Slash Procs from every single instance of damage and her Blood Altar restores 50% of her missing health per second.

Everything else? Mechanics.

So for example, Dread Mirror's scaling is based on the enemy level entirely. It's difficult to get a kill with it until enemies are high enough level that you can reliably set an enemy to 35% health or under and then rip them apart with one cast.

However, in combination with that Strength and her 4, the damage portion (throwing the ball) inflicts a guaranteed Slash Proc, which is based off that stored damage that you're dealing when throwing the ball, which you can easily scale up to the tens or hundreds of thousands. In that small range of the ball, it can actually kill enemies up to level 3000 with very minimul input. Scary, right? ^^

Her 2, Blood Altar, is more powerful the lower health you're on. It can become an infinite loop with her 3 because with that same 201% Strength she can go down to 2 Health and then restore 50% of her health in 1 second. It doesn't feel strong when she's nearly full health, because it's 50% of her missing health, but as long as you're in range, it's still ticking. In combination that means her own 3 can restore her energy at a crazy rate... She can get to full energy by pressing 3 over and over again, and still be at 50% health 1 second later. 75% Health 2 seconds later. And that actually compounds if you stand in the overlapping area of two or three Altars, so do try that out.

And that 3 again, with just neutral Efficiency, you get 25% of your max Energy back, which with her Altars active is just free infinite energy for casting her 4 and 1, or refreshing her 2.

Garuda need never die, and Garuda should never run out of damage, neither should Garuda ever run out of Energy nor should she fail to buff an entire team with those Bleeds boosting everything they do.

[(PSN)thegarada]

Her passive functionality is meh. The higher you push the less practical it becomes, and at lower levels there are better frames for quick farming that the passive does not matter.

The heal is very strong, but its is AOE locked are makes hard to be effective in many situations.

Skill 4 is strong, but the cast time and the AOE are pathetic, making using it highly questionable in most situations.

She works, but her game play is the exact opposite of smooth. And obviously, there are better frames for her game play design. She does not work as support, and there are far more survivable frames and melee dps frames.

I was hoping the augments could improve her. Looking at the new augment made me sad.

Edited February 8, 2020 by (PS4)thegarada

[selig_fay]

1 час назад, (PS4)thegarada сказал:

Her passive functionality is meh.

This passive ability fits her style of play and is much better than most frames in the game. You have a pocket rhino just because you don't have a bit of hp, how can it be meh?

[Gailus]

Consider that heal in relation to her passive. She gets a massive boost in all damage the lower her health is, so healing everything in a second or two will hinder her potential. So to allow Garuda to stay alive but keep her health down her 2 recovers a percentage of her missing health. In other words her heal grows weaker as her health fills back up. With a little bit of power strength and good use of her shield, she can stay at super low health most of the time with no issues, especially if she has Quick Thinking in the build. Having the heal isolated to a specific area allows her to turn it off easily and keep her damage up.

Also Garuda's 1 isn't a tileset nuke and it's doesn't need to be. The thing has infinite damage scaling damage so using it with her 4 makes it slash proc enemies to have infinite armor and shield ignoring damage. If you need it to hit a wider area just use Stretch, but committing more mod space to range would take away from everything else Garuda can do. If that thing was able to also nuke a tileset while also ignoring all armor and shields it'd be even more overpowered than Mag's old Polarize.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Gailus

[sunderthefirmament]

10 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

What you have to get your head around with Garuda is that she really is mechanics based, not stats based.

There is only one relevant stat to ensure full combination of her abilities; 201% Strength. At that level of Strength, Garuda's 4 inflicts guaranteed Slash Procs from every single instance of damage and her Blood Altar restores 50% of her missing health per second.

 

Didn't they lower the breakpoint on power strength and her guaranteed slash proc?  It's easier to achieve now, if I recall correctly.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Just now, sunderthefirmament said:

Didn't they lower the breakpoint on power strength and her guaranteed slash proc?  It's easier to achieve now, if I recall correctly.

Oh yeah, they did... Thanks for reminding me, it cleared a mod spot. One sec, let me get the Wiki listing... Dammit, nobody has updated the page, that's why I was listing old information.

Yeah, they increased the base chance for her 4 up to 75% from 50%, so now you only need about 134% Strength to reach 100% Status chance, which makes her a heck load easier to mod.

Other changes they made at the time were that Bloodletting now restores 35% of your max Energy, not 25%, and reduced the casting time on her 4 due to complaints about how long it took.

[GPrime96]

24 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Didn't they lower the breakpoint on power strength and her guaranteed slash proc?  It's easier to achieve now, if I recall correctly.

Yeah, pretty sure it takes over 130 - 140% Power Strength to reach 100% Status Chance of Slash Procs.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

18 hours ago, taiiat said:

plus has the strongest non instant Healing Ability in the game

Wisp and Oberon surpass Blood Altar

[(PSN)thegarada]

6 hours ago, GPrime96 said:

Yeah, pretty sure it takes over 130 - 140% Power Strength to reach 100% Status Chance of Slash Procs.

I think it is 125% for guaranteed slash procs. All you need is intensfiy.

[SpringRocker]

22 hours ago, taiiat said:

and is able to make Energy whenever she pleases

To be fair, everyone is able to make energy whenever they want via operator or pizzas.

[taiiat]

28 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

To be fair, everyone is able to make energy whenever they want via operator or pizzas.

spacekid is nowhere near as fast (good luck creating 100 Energy instantaneously with spacekid), and most Players don't use Pizzas except when it's an emergency or Et Cetera.

[(PSN)thegarada]

21 hours ago, zhellon said:

This passive ability fits her style of play and is much better than most frames in the game. You have a pocket rhino just because you don't have a bit of hp, how can it be meh?

Cuz you can easily get 1 shotted in beyond level 100 even with primed flow and quick thinking, with no HP. And the damage is not that relevant in content lower than that. 

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

spacekid is nowhere near as fast (good luck creating 100 Energy instantaneously with spacekid), and most Players don't use Pizzas except when it's an emergency or Et Cetera.

Energy is kinda of a mote point. The only reason it is useful on garuda is cuz you combo flow with quick thinking. Other than that, she is not energy intensive to begin with, and no purpose to spam her skills. 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by (PS4)thegarada

[selig_fay]

1 минуту назад, (PS4)thegarada сказал:

Cuz you can easily get 1 shotted in beyond level 100 even with primed flow and quick thinking, with no HP. And the damage is not that relevant in content lower than that.

But there are mobs that can ignore your abilities

[(PSN)thegarada]

1 minute ago, zhellon said:

But there are mobs that can ignore your abilities

Who cares about abilities? She is mainly a melee frame damage wise. Her abilities are for survivability (1&2) and damage modifier (4). 

I tried spamming 4 in below level 50 content. It works, but there is so many better nukers. Way better, that discussing her from that prescriptive is pointless. And not cuz skill 4 is bad. The application of the skill is what is terrible.

[selig_fay]

20 минут назад, (PS4)thegarada сказал:

Who cares about abilities? She is mainly a melee frame damage wise. Her abilities are for survivability (1&2) and damage modifier (4).

I tried spamming 4 in below level 50 content. It works, but there is so many better nukers. Way better, that discussing her from that prescriptive is pointless. And not cuz skill 4 is bad. The application of the skill is what is terrible.

I mean, you can still use this passive ability. This is not a meh, it just increases the damage of your weapon against bosses or special enemies like the ancient destroyer or kuva leech. 50% HP = 50% damage, which is equivalent to rhino at 100% strength. One moment when it's just not necessary in most cases, but you can use it, another moment when the passive ability is useless in 100% of cases.

[Birdframe_Prime]

10 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Wisp and Oberon surpass Blood Altar

For consistent healing per second, yes, but do remember it's a matter of proportion.

Take an Inaros, for example, with 6435 Health with just the Umbral set, Oberon's reasonable top healing would restore between 80 and 120 Health per second, so that would take a long time for him to top up from 50% (3215 health or so), and Wisp's is lower.

Because it's a percentage of missing health, Inaros could expect a Garuda to restore around 35-50% of his missing health (mod affected), so in one second Blood Altar would give him over 1000 Health back no matter what and as high as 1600 health in that first second. It would legitimately take until Inaros was up to a missing value of less than 300 Health before Oberon and Wisp caught up and then surpassed her for rate of healing.

Actually, that's kind of true of any frame; unless the missing value of health is around 300 or less, Blood Altar restores more per second than either Oberon or Wisp.

Where Garuda always, absolutely, struggles to heal is when that missing health value is low. On any squishy frame, that's a significant down side and Wisp and Oberon vastly out-strip her. What she also struggles with is having a buff totem form of healing, the second the ally is out of range, poof goes the healing. In those cases too, Oberon and Wisp greatly out-strip her.

But that's kind of the whole point of this. She has an option for healing, but she's not a dedicated support frame. When playing with others it means that she's way more of an asset than a detriment, but it's not the point of her kit ^^

[(PSN)thegarada]

5 hours ago, zhellon said:

I mean, you can still use this passive ability. This is not a meh, it just increases the damage of your weapon against bosses or special enemies like the ancient destroyer or kuva leech. 50% HP = 50% damage, which is equivalent to rhino at 100% strength. One moment when it's just not necessary in most cases, but you can use it, another moment when the passive ability is useless in 100% of cases.

You are missing the point here. When it is really needed, it is very risky to use. When it is easy to use, it does not matter much. If I can kill a 10K HP mob with 1 hit, dealing 20K damage or 40K damage is not going to matter.

We can leave the passive alone (even though I think it needs to operate in a fashion similar to Gauss bar, being gained through losing HP and maintained through damage). Skills 2&4 need improvements. Skill 2 can be improved through a mod. Skill 4 needs to work the same as most other frames. 1 button with good AOE. None of this press hold, only to get a 95 degree cone. 1 press gives you 25 degree cone. You can barely even hit in-front of you with that.

[taiiat]

17 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Wisp and Oberon surpass Blood Altar

well, since Wisps' Healing is garbage compared to other Heal over time Abilities i'll only talk about Oberon here:

ah yes, TIL that at 300% Strength Oberon Healing 120 Health/sec
is faster than
75% missing Health/sec, and stackable to 2/3 layers if you want truly nuts

 

i bow to your clearly superior mathematical skills. truly, a wonder to behold.

6 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Actually, that's kind of true of any frame; unless the missing value of health is around 300 or less, Blood Altar restores more per second than either Oberon or Wisp.

actually the missing Health point that Blood Alter reaches parity to Renewal, is 160 Health.
but then you have the option to double or triple stack it, so while its stationary limited ofcourse, it's still the second best Healing Ability in the game, second only to Blessing.
with third being Curative Undertow, ofcourse.

well, situationally Scarab Swarm might beat just about everything, but i don't know whether it's practical to include that.

 

8 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

Cuz you can easily get 1 shotted in beyond level 100 even with primed flow and quick thinking, with no HP. And the damage is not that relevant in content lower than that. 

Energy is kinda of a mote point. The only reason it is useful on garuda is cuz you combo flow with quick thinking. Other than that, she is not energy intensive to begin with, and no purpose to spam her skills. 

sounds like you should be pairing that QT with features that it stacks with. if you're dying in that scenario you'd be dying without QT at full Health too, since with QT your EHP is higher >.>

it's totally relevant because being able to manufacture Energy is what lets Garuda use low Efficiency and not have to care about it.
......

Edited February 9, 2020 by taiiat