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23 minutes ago, taiiat said:

it's totally relevant because being able to manufacture Energy is what lets Garuda use low Efficiency and not have to care about it.

Well not with Blood Letting scaling from Efficiency still.

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19 minutes ago, GPrime96 said:

Well not with Blood Letting scaling from Efficiency still.

that facet isn't even that important. neutral Efficiency gives you what it says on the tin, and that means Garuda doesn't have to even think about putting those Mods on because Energy can be manufactured.

at neutral Efficiency Blood Letting already gets you ~140 Energy per Cast.
sure, if you capped Efficiency you could get the full 570 Energy per Cast, but just because something is more doesn't mean it actually matters. 

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On 2020-02-08 at 1:16 PM, TearsOfTomorrow said:

Look, lemme elaborate on that a bit. The issue with Garuda is that there are many, and I do mean MANY, mods that can help in unlocking her true potential... So naturally that means that you need to experiment a lot in order to find the configuration that works for you, but since many of said mods take a lot of space, you're not going to be able to experiment that well if you don't invest some forma.

She needs Str, as everything she does scales off that: however, she doesn't really want to dump Dur nor Ran, as both denefit her one way or another. Gladiator mods might be a good idea on her because you cannot use blood rush on her claws, and then there is the Rage+Flow+Quick Thinking combo: Garuda is unarguably THE frame to go if you want to use that combo, her kit aligns so perfectly with it.

So yeah, as you can see that's a lot of mod space. Without multiple forma you're not going to be able to fit everything, and even then you'll need to make a decision.

In short, Garuda is a "high reward for high investment" kind of frame. She can reach a point where she's VERY good, but it's going to take a lot of effort for you to get there. Which, by the way, is the reason why so many people sleep on her: since other frames can achieve the same power level for a fraction of the investment, people just go for those and don't bother with Garuda. But if you're willing to put in that extra effort she'll prove very rewarding. 

Wanna see some sample builds for reference?

hey dude thanks for posting.

nice info there...

because she does require this extra "boost" if you may call it could be the reason im asking for a buff, however it come to my attention garuda got a buff recently so i will be having a play on it and hopefully i will be pleased, i did quit playin it before this rising tide update so i have high hopes for it now that i saw it got some boost and that im now gonna be using natural talent. thanks again m8

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On 2020-02-08 at 1:28 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

What you have to get your head around with Garuda is that she really is mechanics based, not stats based.

There is only one relevant stat to ensure full combination of her abilities; 201% Strength. At that level of Strength, Garuda's 4 inflicts guaranteed Slash Procs from every single instance of damage and her Blood Altar restores 50% of her missing health per second.

Everything else? Mechanics.

So for example, Dread Mirror's scaling is based on the enemy level entirely. It's difficult to get a kill with it until enemies are high enough level that you can reliably set an enemy to 35% health or under and then rip them apart with one cast.

However, in combination with that Strength and her 4, the damage portion (throwing the ball) inflicts a guaranteed Slash Proc, which is based off that stored damage that you're dealing when throwing the ball, which you can easily scale up to the tens or hundreds of thousands. In that small range of the ball, it can actually kill enemies up to level 3000 with very minimul input. Scary, right? ^^

Her 2, Blood Altar, is more powerful the lower health you're on. It can become an infinite loop with her 3 because with that same 201% Strength she can go down to 2 Health and then restore 50% of her health in 1 second. It doesn't feel strong when she's nearly full health, because it's 50% of her missing health, but as long as you're in range, it's still ticking. In combination that means her own 3 can restore her energy at a crazy rate... She can get to full energy by pressing 3 over and over again, and still be at 50% health 1 second later. 75% Health 2 seconds later. And that actually compounds if you stand in the overlapping area of two or three Altars, so do try that out.

And that 3 again, with just neutral Efficiency, you get 25% of your max Energy back, which with her Altars active is just free infinite energy for casting her 4 and 1, or refreshing her 2.

Garuda need never die, and Garuda should never run out of damage, neither should Garuda ever run out of Energy nor should she fail to buff an entire team with those Bleeds boosting everything they do.

nice.... lol

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On 2020-02-09 at 1:58 AM, (PS4)thegarada said:

I think it is 125% for guaranteed slash procs. All you need is intensfiy.

Unfortunately no, the exact cutoff for 100% slash proc chance is 134% power strength. So a partially leveled version of either Blind Rage or Transient Fortitude is needed.

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20 минут назад, Gailus сказал:

Unfortunately no, the exact cutoff for 100% slash proc chance is 134% power strength. So a partially leveled version of either Blind Rage or Transient Fortitude is needed.

Umbra mod gives 44% strength.

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32 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Umbra mod gives 44% strength.

I was specifically just listing off the bare minimum requirements for achieving 100% slash proc chance, but yes Umbral Intensify works too.

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17 hours ago, taiiat said:

well, since Wisps' Healing is garbage compared to other Heal over time Abilities i'll only talk about Oberon here:

ah yes, TIL that at 300% Strength Oberon Healing 120 Health/sec
is faster than
75% missing Health/sec, and stackable to 2/3 layers if you want truly nuts

 

i bow to your clearly superior mathematical skills. truly, a wonder to behold.

actually the missing Health point that Blood Alter reaches parity to Renewal, is 160 Health.
but then you have the option to double or triple stack it, so while its stationary limited ofcourse, it's still the second best Healing Ability in the game, second only to Blessing.
with third being Curative Undertow, ofcourse.

well, situationally Scarab Swarm might beat just about everything, but i don't know whether it's practical to include that.

 

sounds like you should be pairing that QT with features that it stacks with. if you're dying in that scenario you'd be dying without QT at full Health too, since with QT your EHP is higher >.>

it's totally relevant because being able to manufacture Energy is what lets Garuda use low Efficiency and not have to care about it.
......

The other day, in under  2 secs, I lost 1,070 HP and ~550 energy with QT. That is with ~900 armor and adaption. About 60 minutes in arbitration. So no, sitting 0 HP and using primed flow and QT is not going to cut at that level. The max you can use this game play reliably is 30 minute in arbitration and same in MoT. This renders the passive not useful when I really need the higher damage. I am already 1 shotting everything below level 100 anyway with melee weapons (Okay 2 hits for bombards).

I guess it can carry less geared players through lower content. But why would you play Garuda for that anyway?

And again, lets leave the passive alone. Skill 2 needs improvements. Skill 4 needs major improvements in application. 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

The other day, in under  2 secs, I lost 1,070 HP and ~550 energy with QT. That is with ~900 armor and adaption. About 60 minutes in arbitration. So no, sitting 0 HP and using primed flow and QT is not going to cut at that level.

you would have died without QT then too. you literally have more EHP in QT than you have without it at full Health on the vast majority of Warframes.

this isn't a good argument because of that. it doesn't matter whether people ilke or dislike A vs B based on the failure of one because if one fails then the other would have too anyways.

Edited by taiiat

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6 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

The other day, in under  2 secs, I lost 1,070 HP and ~550 energy with QT. That is with ~900 armor and adaption. 

Not trolling, but do people really mod her for HP?

I thought you would want a smaller health pool to take advantage of her passive. 

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14 minutes ago, (XB1)Togashi said:

Not trolling, but do people really mod her for HP?

I thought you would want a smaller health pool to take advantage of her passive. 

I have multiple setups. I have one with no HP at all. But if I want to push in an arbitration, I would most definitely use 3 Umbra mods. Also, the passive is not based on how much HP you have, but the percentage of your total HP you have left. 

 

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

you would have died without QT then too. you literally have more EHP in QT than you have without it at full Health on the vast majority of Warframes.

this isn't a good argument because of that. it doesn't matter whether people ilke or dislike A vs B based on the failure of one because if one fails then the other would have too anyways.

The survivability with primed flow and QT, without HP, is not enough for difficult content, where the passive would be most beneficial. This is the point. And having more eHP than most frames is a mote point. If we categorize her as primarily melee frame, at a minimum, Valkyr, Gauss, Inaros and Wukong are stronger. Even on the damage side, Gauss and Valkyr would do better damage, due to a much higher attack speed. She needs skill 4 and the passive to be more consistent and reliable if she is to be able to be competitive with similar frames. Her dps needs to be far more consistent. 

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8 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

I have multiple setups. I have one with no HP at all. But if I want to push in an arbitration, I would most definitely use 3 Umbra mods. Also, the passive is not based on how much HP you have, but the percentage of your total HP you have left.

I almost used a Umbra forma on her. Mod space is a little tight.

She is pretty fun, but she does need some work.

I also feel like Natural Talent is a must for her. That just might be me though.

 

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50 minutes ago, (XB1)Togashi said:

Not trolling, but do people really mod her for HP?

I thought you would want a smaller health pool to take advantage of her passive. 

Smaller Health would help her use her Passive faster but also slows down her Healing over time.

22 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

Even on the damage side,  Valkyr would do better damage, due to a much higher attack speed. 

Honestly, 97% of the Weapons available would do more damage than Valkyr after the Melee Rework. Attack Speed and tankiness are the only thing she got so far, her Talons are MK-1 Weapons.

Edited by GPrime96
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14 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

 If we categorize her as primarily melee frame, at a minimum, Valkyr, Gauss, Inaros and Wukong are stronger. Even on the damage side, Gauss and Valkyr would do better damage, due to a much higher attack speed. She needs skill 4 and the passive to be more consistent and reliable if she is to be able to be competitive with similar frames. Her dps needs to be far more consistent. 

 

You don't have to play her as a melee frame.   With shields up and a good gun, you can survive ridiculously because you're not in the center of a shooting gallery..  I've been having a lot of fun with a long distance Gaze or a Kuva Quartakk, for instance.  The damage increase from the passive makes them quite effective.

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, GPrime96 said:

Smaller Health would help her use her Passive faster but also slows down her Healing over time.

Honestly, 97% of the Weapons available would do more damage than Valkyr after the Melee Rework. Attack Speed and tankiness are the only thing she got so far, her Talons are MK-1 Weapons.

I get 140% attack speed from from warcry (with mods). That is 2.4x more damage. Plus it is constant. Garuda passive caps at 1.99x with 2 HP. So no, this statement is incorrect. Potentially, Garuda can deal higher damage with skill 4. But that has other issues. 

Also, again both the passive and skill 2 work on % basis, not pool numerical size. Skill 2 does not heal amount but %. Obliviously 25% per sec of 300HP is much lower than 25% of 1,070 HP. However, regardless of your HP pool, you will fully heal in 4 secs (assuming no damage). 

40 minutes ago, Krenlik said:

 

You don't have to play her as a melee frame.   With shields up and a good gun, you can survive ridiculously because you're not in the center of a shooting gallery..  I've been having a lot of fun with a long distance Gaze or a Kuva Quartakk, for instance.  The damage increase from the passive makes them quite effective.

 

 

 

I do not have to play any frame in any role, but some frames function better in specific roles. And unless guns are mandatory or your thing, melee weapons deal an order of magnitude higher damage. Anything below ~level 70, I maw down with acceletra (or w.e is your preferred AOE weapon). Anything higher, melee works much faster. Guns are for low level, for fun and when melee is not an option. 

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31 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

I do not have to play any frame in any role, but some frames function better in specific roles. And unless guns are mandatory or your thing, melee weapons deal an order of magnitude higher damage. Anything below ~level 70, I maw down with acceletra (or w.e is your preferred AOE weapon). Anything higher, melee works much faster. Guns are for low level, for fun and when melee is not an option. 

That isn't really an argument for Garuda being a melee frame since none of what you said there has anything to do with Garuda.

Her abilities buff both Melee and Guns in equal magnitude, so she can do both to great effect and will sometimes prefer one or the other depending on setup and playstyle.

I use a Kuva Ogris modded for gas that clears rooms of level 150+ armored enemies in a matter of seconds because of how the gas clouds interact with Garuda's 4 and her passive. I could technically do the same job using a Lesion or Silva & Aegis Prime, but it would be both riskier and take longer because I'd have move between the groups. Usually I go with the Furax Wraith for Amalgam Furax Body Count to make the Ogris explosions even bigger, but the melee weapon itself is largely ineffective.

Edited by Gailus

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4 hours ago, Krenlik said:

 

You don't have to play her as a melee frame.   With shields up and a good gun, you can survive ridiculously because you're not in the center of a shooting gallery..  I've been having a lot of fun with a long distance Gaze or a Kuva Quartakk, for instance.  The damage increase from the passive makes them quite effective.

 

 

 

^^ Garuda is more of a run and gun or a camp and shoot type of Frame instead of being a Melee Frame, especially Solo.

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On 2020-02-08 at 10:37 AM, GPrime96 said:

> Me soloing Mot up to 380+ at Mot as her while having the % Healing and slash Procs for the Squad

> someone want to buff her a lot

Ok then?

What's your build ?

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Just now, LascarCapable said:

What's your build ?

Here's the Build i used for that run:

6qudsC3.jpg

I used Carrier Prime with Primed Animal Instinct for the Enemy Radar. It's slightly better than Enemy Radar Aura Mod.

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Why are you running Vitality on Garuda ? Simple question. Just trying to get details on some subtleties your build may have.

In my case I don't run it because I try to exploit the passive as much as possible. I tend to stay at 2hp a lot. I run pain treshold as well so staggers from QT are less problematic.

I'm also surprised you don't run handspring in exilus, but I guess that's because you were farming resources at that moment.

 

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21 minutes ago, LascarCapable said:

Why are you running Vitality on Garuda ? Simple question. Just trying to get details on some subtleties your build may have.

In my case I don't run it because I try to exploit the passive as much as possible. I tend to stay at 2hp a lot. I run pain treshold as well so staggers from QT are less problematic.

I'm also surprised you don't run handspring in exilus, but I guess that's because you were farming resources at that moment.

 

I only use her Passive when i want to or when i’m losing health “Passively” so i run Vitality on her since she heals at a higher amount when she loses Health with 1070 current Health compare to 300 current Health. Especially when i’m healing the Ancient Healer Specter if i’m doing a long run or playing in Railjack and letting Garuda tank most of the damage from the Exo Grineer at Veil if i’m in a Crewship or in a POI Tower and i’m surrounded by enemies, 2 - 3 Blood Alters is enough for Veil Proxima. Also had Loot Mods on her because i was using that Build for Anomaly farming. I was going to try a different Survival build but i went for this build instead while testing out the Kuva Bramma at Mot but i stuck with it until i left at 2 Hour 3 Mins because of LS.

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7 minutes ago, GPrime96 said:

I only use her Passive when i want to or when i’m losing health “Passively” so i run Vitality on her since she heals at a higher amount when she loses Health with 1070 current Health compare to 300 current Health. Especially when i’m healing the Ancient Healer Specter if i’m doing a long run or playing in Railjack and letting Garuda tank most of the damage from the Exo Grineer at Veil if i’m in a Crewship or in a POI Tower and i’m surrounded by enemies, 2 - 3 Blood Alters is enough for Veil Proxima. Also had Loot Mods on her because i was using that Build for Anomaly farming. I was going to try a different Survival build but i went for this build instead while testing out the Kuva Bramma at Mot but i stuck with it until i left at 2 Hour 3 Mins because of LS.

Ok got it.

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5 hours ago, GPrime96 said:

I only use her Passive when i want to or when i’m losing health “Passively” so i run Vitality on her since she heals at a higher amount when she loses Health with 1070 current Health compare to 300 current Health. Especially when i’m healing the Ancient Healer Specter if i’m doing a long run or playing in Railjack and letting Garuda tank most of the damage from the Exo Grineer at Veil if i’m in a Crewship or in a POI Tower and i’m surrounded by enemies, 2 - 3 Blood Alters is enough for Veil Proxima. Also had Loot Mods on her because i was using that Build for Anomaly farming. I was going to try a different Survival build but i went for this build instead while testing out the Kuva Bramma at Mot but i stuck with it until i left at 2 Hour 3 Mins because of LS.

I run similar build as well for solo arbitration. Sitting with 2hp and with QT and primed flowed, does not cut it on the higher end.

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On 2020-02-11 at 8:39 AM, (PS4)thegarada said:

I do not have to play any frame in any role, but some frames function better in specific roles. And unless guns are mandatory or your thing, melee weapons deal an order of magnitude higher damage. Anything below ~level 70, I maw down with acceletra (or w.e is your preferred AOE weapon). Anything higher, melee works much faster. Guns are for low level, for fun and when melee is not an option. 

Yeah, I don't know why people look at me crazy when I say Mesa is a melee frame. 😛

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She sucks in arbitration. Those drones are like, "hey a healing alter, wouldn't it be a shame if I ..made it dissapear.. 😈 

No but seriously she's way to much work and hassle to use in high level content when other frames take much less effort.

Also her casting time still feels slow.

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