Oberon rework

[Braiking.Boss]

I use Oberon almost exclusively and would like to just voice my opinion on some areas that I feel warrant a rework and hopefully provide some constructive feedback.

I believe DE has said before they do not want mods being "required" for a frame to play. I would argue that hunter adrenaline (or rage) and phoenix renewal are all de facto on Oberon. I believe Oberon should receive hunter adrenaline/rage's energy regeneration as a less powerful passive effect. Where a lesser percentage of damage on HP is returned as energy. With this I believe Oberon should lose damage shields completely with increased health and/or increased armor as damage shields only act as a hindrance when generating energy. I know it is commonly recommended that Oberons keep Decaying Dragon Keys slotted as Oberon to try and remove their own shields and with Renewal only healing HP and not damage shields, and Oberon's general armor + Renewal's armor buff not impacting damage shields, I believe this would be a good rework all around for Oberon. Keep in mind it is important that this energy regeneration to work while Renewal is active as Oberon is limited to sources of energy regeneration while channeling this which ironically makes this "nature inspired frame" run more like a hummer when it comes to energy usage.

• Smite
  • Weak and underwhelming. This skill is rarely if ever used and generally doesn't fit what Oberon is trying to do. Oberon fits more into a healer/combo support between Hallowed Grounds CC (crowd control), Reckoning's armor strip (when combo'd with Hallowed Ground), and Renewals healing and armor buff (when combo'd with hallowed ground). With Hallowed Grounds and Reckoning's negligible damage they really are just there for the buffs/debuffs. Integrating this skill to combo with Hallowed Ground would fit more in-line with the remaining skills.
    • Smite replacement ideas:
      • Silvergrove Trellis: where Oberon creates a physical barrier of interwoven roots/branches that create a trellis that blocks projectiles and enemies from passing through. Duration is increased if cast upon an area where Hallowed Ground is active.
      • Forest of the Fae Arch: plants a large flower that has three (3) stages (seedling, budding, flowering). The flower begins as a seedling. When you activate the ability again while targeting the flower it increases to the next stage (budding, flowering). Each stage infects nearby enemies with paralyzing spores that opens them to headshots (like harrow's chains) but the area of effect will increase based on the stage. Begins at stage three (3), flowering, if cast upon an area where Hallowed Ground is active. Max of four (4) to coincide with Hallowed Ground max.
      • Smite Infusion: Increase ally damage by (X%) while active (channeled ability). If an ally under the effects of Smite Infusion passes through an area effected by Hallowed Ground they gain (X%) additional damage as radiation damage on their weapons while the channel remains active. Effectively damage buff version of renewal and a nod to the mod augment (obviously takes place over the mod.
• Hallowed Ground
  • Weak in terms of damage. Used for radiation CC and combo'd with Renewal and Reckoning. The area is relatively small considering the cirque du soleil that is Warframe. I think increase in base area of effect would be nice and make this more user friendly as it combos with a majority of the kit.
• Renewal
  • The effect dropping off of allies that "reset" by falling into areas can be annoying. This is pretty much the biggest reason to run Oberon but makes the frame essentially require hunter's adrenaline (or rage) and phoenix renewal.
• Reckoning
  • Pretty much just used for armor strip when combo'd with Hallowed Ground. Cost and lack of damage are what keep it from mostly being used. Blind effect seems negligible. For the cost it should do more and have a wider area of effect, in my opinion, or it will continue to see limited use.

Just some ideas, I definitely wouldn't mind seeing reckoning completely overhauled, and hallowed ground/renewal tweaked even though I don't have much to add as I don't want this to be overpowered but I want it to be more of a frame that fits its role and is more on the same power level as recent frames and reworked ones.

 

[Shaburanigud]

IMO, the only rework Oberon needs is some of his skill animations.

Hallowed Grounds' grass looks so old compared to the actual plants in Cetus
Not to mention the effects on Reckoning.

Other than that he's balanced.

He has AoE, he as area denial, he has healing, he has tankiness, he has CC, he has armor removal
Add his 1st augment and he even has damage buffs.

He has almost everything.
Besides, he's not meant to be a dmg dealing frame anyway. He's suppose to mainly be a support/semi-tank.
Which he does exceedingly well. And not that boringly like Inaros or such. (0 interaction, just health)

Edited February 9, 2020 by Shaburanigud

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

2 minutes ago, Shaburanigud said:

IMO, the only rework Oberon needs is some of his skill animations.

Hallowed Grounds' grass looks so old compared to the actual plants in Cetus

Its supposed to be fire if you read the ability card, thats what im waiting for them to do, turn the grass into fire.

[Shaburanigud]

1 minute ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

Its supposed to be fire if you read the ability card, thats what im waiting for them to do, turn the grass into fire.

Holy Xhit, how did I not see this until now. He's one of my favorite frames and I didn't know this till now.
Now I want his animation rework more than ever.

Would love it if DE made it awesome by actually changing the animation to spawn plants and trees that are set on fire.

[ES-Flinter]

Overall I like your Idea's. I'm probably not as experienced like you with Oberon (He is only Number 2.), but I still have a few idea I would like to mention. 

vor 14 Stunden schrieb Braiking.Boss:

Silvergrove Trellis: where Oberon creates a physical barrier of interwoven roots/branches that create a trellis that blocks projectiles and enemies from passing through. Duration is increased if cast upon an area where Hallowed Ground is active.

So basically atlas stone walls but make out of wood? Probably better than his actual skill, but still not useful.

vor 15 Stunden schrieb Braiking.Boss:

Forest of the Fae Arch: plants a large flower that has three (3) stages (seedling, budding, flowering). The flower begins as a seedling. When you activate the ability again while targeting the flower it increases to the next stage (budding, flowering). Each stage infects nearby enemies with paralyzing spores that opens them to headshots (like harrow's chains) but the area of effect will increase based on the stage. Begins at stage three (3), flowering, if cast upon an area where Hallowed Ground is active. Max of four (4) to coincide with Hallowed Ground max.

I like this the most. CC is always useful, but I'm worried, that it will be overshadowed by his hallowed ground ability. 

vor 15 Stunden schrieb Braiking.Boss:

Smite Infusion: Increase ally damage by (X%) while active (channeled ability). If an ally under the effects of Smite Infusion passes through an area effected by Hallowed Ground they gain (X%) additional damage as radiation damage on their weapons while the channel remains active. Effectively damage buff version of renewal and a nod to the mod augment

No, just no. Two channeled abilities can't work on one frame. How are you going to use any other ability, if you will end up with a -10 Energy per second reduction, because you use Smite infusion and renewal at the same time?^^

vor 14 Stunden schrieb Braiking.Boss:

Reckoning

• Pretty much just used for armor strip when combo'd with Hallowed Ground. Cost and lack of damage are what keep it from mostly being used. Blind effect seems negligible. For the cost it should do more and have a wider area of effect, in my opinion, or it will continue to see limited use.

 

What would you think about, if Reckoning will just be combined with Hallowed ground (but for the lose of damage and blind effect)? Clicking to activate hallowed ground and holding to active the armor stripping effect on all active hallowed grounds.

For that he would just a new fourth ability. Maybe something like, that Oberon takes 75% of the damage his alias would get, but for that he he would get damage mitigation. It would also help against his is energy problems.

vor 14 Stunden schrieb Braiking.Boss:

Renewal

• The effect dropping off of allies that "reset" by falling into areas can be annoying. This is pretty much the biggest reason to run Oberon but makes the frame essentially require hunter's adrenaline (or rage) and phoenix renewal.

 

I agree with you.

What would you think about, if the healing amount is percentage and not more a fixed amount? It would help him to heal NPC (Best example are probably the drones in the eidolon hunt). And it would also be a big boost to his survivability, because vitality is also a standard mod for him.

[(PSN)DidacoJack]

12 hours ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

Its supposed to be fire if you read the ability card, thats what im waiting for them to do, turn the grass into fire.

I don't know if I hallucinated everything but I remember that initially it was some sort of flat wave-effect affecting the ground (which is still there, under the grass) but it was kinda difficult to spot so they added grass, also to match his affinity with nature.

Frac, now I'm curious, was it real or am I creating memories?

Btw, I guess that before a visual rework he needs an audio rework, as ALL of his abilities have the SAME sound effect.

[TehGrief]

20 hours ago, Braiking.Boss said:

Renewal

• The effect dropping off of allies that "reset" by falling into areas can be annoying. This is pretty much the biggest reason to run Oberon but makes the frame essentially require hunter's adrenaline (or rage) and phoenix renewal.

 

 

This has to be one of the most frustrating aspects of playing Oberon and using Renewal. Allies falling off the map or being nullified CANNOT return to the point of origin and pick the buff back up. Despite the circle of Renewal remaining until it becomes nullified or deactivated.

I have long advocated for changes to Renewal, there are many issues with the ability, as highlighted in one of my threads:

The initial changes that must take place are:

• Change Renewal to function as an aura that centers on Oberon himself, rather than a radial field that remains at the point of activation.
• Give a better/more obvious visual cue to both Renewal and Phoenix Renewal.
• Allow allies to regain the buff from the same instance after having the buff removed/lost.
• Adjust the energy drain to be more realistic: Increase the base drain of the ability, but remove any further drain applied from each ally below maximum health ~OR~  Remove the base drain, but maintain the energy drain from each ally below maximum health.

[Aadi880]

10 minutes ago, TehGrief said:

This has to be one of the most frustrating aspects of playing Oberon and using Renewal.

Nah mate.

The MOST annoying part of playing Oberon using Renewal is if you have a Nekros in your team.

Screw that energy drain.

[TehGrief]

On 2020-02-09 at 1:28 PM, Aadi880 said:

Nah mate.

The MOST annoying part of playing Oberon using Renewal is if you have a Nekros in your team.

Screw that energy drain.

Not to be pedantic, but I had made the statement as "one of the most frustrating", not "the most frustrating".

However, I return to the argument that I have made several times that the energy drain should be changed; Having a "drain-over-time" and an additional "drain-per-ally" seems harsh. 
If the ability was changed to simply be energy/s while channeled and not have any additional energy drained per ally, this would prevent Nekros's Shadows from being such a devastation to Oberon's energy pool - even if the balance change requires Renewal to cost more per second base.

[NightmareT12]

On 2020-02-09 at 3:06 PM, (PS4)DidacoJack said:

Frac, now I'm curious, was it real or am I creating memories?

It was very real! The original effect was a holy fire (hence the blue), linked to his Paladin thematic. Following the rework there was nothing (the same effect without plants), and after the Prime trailer (shortly after), it became grass and ferns!

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

On 2020-02-08 at 3:57 PM, Braiking.Boss said:

• Smite
  • Weak and underwhelming.

 

i'm sorry...what? correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't smite add a percentage of the original target's hp onto the spawned orbs dmg? thus making it one of the heaviest hitting powers in the game?

 

in fact, wasn't it our first power to do so after his first rework/revisit?

[TehGrief]

10 hours ago, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said:

Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't smite add a percentage of the original target's hp onto the spawned orbs dmg? thus making it one of the heaviest hitting powers in the game?

While it is true that Smite adds a portion of the original targets health to the orbs, OP's comment about the ability being underwhelming is far from wrong.

You really have to look at the numbers to even understand why the ability is underwhelming:

Quote

(from the wiki - default stats without mods) The target emits 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 orb projectiles that seek out enemies within 5 / 7.5 / 10 / 12.5 meters from the main target, over a duration of 12 seconds. Each orb deals 75 / 85 / 100 / 150  Radiation damage, plus 15 / 20 / 25 / 35 % of the main target's maximum health and shields divided among the number of orbs. 

Number of orbs and their base damage are affected by Ability Strength, while the health and shields to damage conversion is not.

Keeping in mind that the additional damage from health and/or shield conversion does not scale with power strength and remains consistently 35% at max rank we can start to look at some numbers:

• A level 80 Corrupted Bombard has 26,292 health - 35% of that is 9,202
• Keeping in mind that the additional damage is spread across each of the orbs (6), each orb is then only doing 150+1,533 damage (at max rank - no mods).

Things start to fall apart more when we add additional power strength, since power strength increases the amount of orbs that are spawned - However, DOES NOT INCREASE THE DAMAGE CONVERSION!

Let's keep it simple and say that your Oberon has 200% power strength:

• Smite now spawns 12 orbs at max level.
• Each orb is dealing a base 300 damage.

Using the same scenario above with the level 80 Corrupted Bombard:

•  A level 80 Corrupted Bombard has 26,292 health - 35% of that is 9,202
• Keeping in mind that the additional damage is spread across each of the orbs (12), each orb is then only doing 300+766 damage (at max rank - 200% power strength).

Considering that weapons can deal tens-of-thousands of points of damage in the matter of seconds - yes, this ability is incredibly underwhelming, just as the OP has suggested.

For this reason, in my own personal opinion, this ability should NOT be focused around causing damage, but instead should be changed to have some unique interactions with Oberon's other abilities while providing crowd-control with Radiation and Impact procs.

Edited February 14, 2020 by TehGrief

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

16 hours ago, TehGrief said:

While it is true that Smite adds a portion of the original targets health to the orbs, OP's comment about the ability being underwhelming is far from wrong.

You really have to look at the numbers to even understand why the ability is underwhelming:

Keeping in mind that the additional damage from health and/or shield conversion does not scale with power strength and remains consistently 35% at max rank we can start to look at some numbers:

• A level 80 Corrupted Bombard has 26,292 health - 35% of that is 9,202
• Keeping in mind that the additional damage is spread across each of the orbs (6), each orb is then only doing 150+1,533 damage (at max rank - no mods).

Things start to fall apart more when we add additional power strength, since power strength increases the amount of orbs that are spawned - However, DOES NOT INCREASE THE DAMAGE CONVERSION!

Let's keep it simple and say that your Oberon has 200% power strength:

• Smite now spawns 12 orbs at max level.
• Each orb is dealing a base 300 damage.

Using the same scenario above with the level 80 Corrupted Bombard:

•  A level 80 Corrupted Bombard has 26,292 health - 35% of that is 9,202
• Keeping in mind that the additional damage is spread across each of the orbs (12), each orb is then only doing 300+766 damage (at max rank - 200% power strength).

Considering that weapons can deal tens-of-thousands of points of damage in the matter of seconds - yes, this ability is incredibly underwhelming, just as the OP has suggested.

For this reason, in my own personal opinion, this ability should NOT be focused around causing damage, but instead should be changed to have some unique interactions with Oberon's other abilities while providing crowd-control with Radiation and Impact procs.

huh. i wasn't aware of how...bad smite actually was. i guess in it's case, you'd be better off having low power str but that reduces so much more than it gains.

 

huh.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

On 2020-02-13 at 3:05 PM, NightmareT12 said:

It was very real! The original effect was a holy fire (hence the blue), linked to his Paladin thematic. Following the rework there was nothing (the same effect without plants), and after the Prime trailer (shortly after), it became grass and ferns!

 

On 2020-02-09 at 9:06 AM, (PS4)DidacoJack said:

I don't know if I hallucinated everything but I remember that initially it was some sort of flat wave-effect affecting the ground (which is still there, under the grass) but it was kinda difficult to spot so they added grass, also to match his affinity with nature.

Frac, now I'm curious, was it real or am I creating memories?

Btw, I guess that before a visual rework he needs an audio rework, as ALL of his abilities have the SAME sound effect.

 

On 2020-02-08 at 8:46 PM, Shaburanigud said:

Holy Xhit, how did I not see this until now. He's one of my favorite frames and I didn't know this till now.
Now I want his animation rework more than ever.

Would love it if DE made it awesome by actually changing the animation to spawn plants and trees that are set on fire.

Before Oberon’s rework, he had what was nicknamed “The magic carpet.” His 2 worked as a rectangle (as opposed to being a hemisphere like it is now) that would move out infront of him. It had a huge range, and at the time when modded for range would cause you to sometimes lose fps for half a second as the carpet loaded. The carpet had these little mini wave flames all over it and frankly it looked horrible even at the time. I will miss the carpet though. It was fun spamming it and causing my friends to rage as they lost fps xD 

[Leown_Kitrinos]

Besides the renewal being fixed for Nekros 4 eating your energy and falling off the map and losing the toggle and smite getting maybe some oomph.

He dosent need anything else. What he has is legit his playstyle. Balance.

His renewal and Hallowed ground already gives soooo much and then adding his 4 strips armor believe still blinds them (unless it's been that long for me Jesus) and enemies drop health orbs 50% of the time...which it most likely will kill the small Fry's for this.

 

Honestly he can solo eidolons, Can keep allies alive and safer (specially all those squishier frames) Rip armor off to deal more damage with weapons etc as well for allies, CC which is radiation so extra damage as well and not only that AOE CC.

 

The only thing I can see getting better about him is his passive and Reworking his other two augments that don't get used too often. I never ever see a carpet bomber anymore. And Hollowed reckoning Aug is nice for bonus armor and all but the areas you need to step are small and scattered and the damage.. meh.

 

Like his passive should flat out give more damage bonuses and health bonuses to all pets if not change it to some thing about radiation being involved.

 

Hollowed ground aug should just store all the damage it's currently doing to enemies and explode for that stored damage with 100% radiation proc chance. And well.. k the base Hallowed ground should do scaling damage.

 

 

If thats all changed or fixed. He'll be just fine. You can run a general build of evened out ability stats and still get 2 augments placed on him easy. He dosent need armor mods and nor does he need Flow. Just slap on renewal and have the rage mod maybe have arcane guardian for an extra 600 armor and yeah. But honestly he's in a good place right now. And this I coming from an old Oberon main "before his rework and became a cool kid" zzz

[TehGrief]

25 minutes ago, FIDOISHERE said:

He dosent need anything else. What he has is legit his playstyle. Balance.

I completely agree; Oberon is in a good place with his abilities and theme.

Most of these suggestions are simply quality of life, and should not be considered "buffs". 

It feels like a bug the way Oberon's Renewal currently works - in fact, you will see quite a few threads being reported under the "bug" tag for how Renewal functions when nullified/dispelled/lost by falling off the map. It should follow Oberon like an aura and allies should be able to regain the buff if lost by entering the area around the Oberon.

The game is just too mobility focused to have stationary abilities - I was surprised when they announced Wisp's Mote ability as it had seemed like they were trying to move away from static abilities. 

[Leown_Kitrinos]

2 hours ago, TehGrief said:

I completely agree; Oberon is in a good place with his abilities and theme.

Most of these suggestions are simply quality of life, and should not be considered "buffs". 

It feels like a bug the way Oberon's Renewal currently works - in fact, you will see quite a few threads being reported under the "bug" tag for how Renewal functions when nullified/dispelled/lost by falling off the map. It should follow Oberon like an aura and allies should be able to regain the buff if lost by entering the area around the Oberon.

The game is just too mobility focused to have stationary abilities - I was surprised when they announced Wisp's Mote ability as it had seemed like they were trying to move away from static abilities. 

Agreed.

 

Well thing is we have objectives in some missions that are stationary or slower paced. And we will continue to get missions like this rather than high mobility missions all the time. Some frames are going perform better in this environment. And some frames that have mutliple uses in their kits are also going to be viable for this.

 

Wisp motes are yes stationary. But they are also mobility. Wisp can teleport to her motes which is better then bullet jumping over some times. So while it takes an initial set up. Throw your buffs for yourself and allies in one place and toss her CC ones in places for area denial then teleport to them.

 

So while I agree this game is way to mobility based for abilities being too stationary. There's missions for those. As for Oberon the renewal does need some QoL changes to keep up. As do other frames. Currently wisp is one of the best examples of the balance between the fast paced and stationary gameplay in synergy for abilities I hope we see more of it and I hope DE listens to us on some of these smaller changes.