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-CM-Harbinger

Where is Warframe heading?

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Where is warframe heading?
Throughout my time playing warframe, i have both some good times and bad times, this is referring to all the grind and RNG in the game. And its all good and dandy as warframe is a free to play game and its been one of my favourite online game in a long time. 
But at almost 4000 hours played, with all the RNG and grind added to the game, i cant help but wonder, where is warframe heading?

Now to be clear, this is not supposed to be a rant or anything negative, im just looking for some clarifications and understanding. (please keep your useless/unnecessary comments to yourselves).

For example, lets look at the riven system:
First of all, i dont mind rivens, its not the best nor most fun system in the game, i could play with or without it. But to get a decent riven, here is what you need to do (without trading).
1. you need to get it from sortie, or get enough shards to trade with Paladino, were both requires RNG (lets call it RNG1)
2. after getting a riven, you unlock it and you get a riven for a random weapon for that "class"of weapons (RNG2).
3. if you dont get a super good roll from the start, you need to reroll it with kuva, and good god how much kuva it might need... (RNG3).

OR

1. buy a good riven with plat.

Next example is the lich system:
Lets consider the recent change to the lich system as it helps ppl get that weapon they have been looking for for a long time. But what does it take to take down a lich?

1. you need to farm thralls to get requiem relics. (RNG1)
2. you will open those relics to get requiem mods. (RNG2)
3. you need to farm murmurs to reveal what requiem mods you need to use. (RNG3)
4. you need to figure out what order you need to put those requiem mods. (RNG4)
5. even if you get the weapon you want with the element you need, it doesnt mean it has the best stats. (RNG5)
If you are one of the majority of the players who dont get lucky enough with the best stats on the first try, you will need to repeat all 5 steps.

OR

1. buy the lich with the exact stats and/or ephemera and do the cycle once.


Next we can look at the RJ system. Lets keep it short as we all know the mess it was on launch, but the RNG and the boring repeat of the same brainless grind is starting to show everywere.

And with all my respect to the devs, DE and all other devs in the gaming industry, games (mostly online, and some single player games) seem to challenge players' time and not their skills.
This is so clearly demonstrated here in warframe. It has gotten off lightly by being a free to play game, and thats understandable... but at what point does it become unfair?

I have heard the devs talking about respecting players time, but i just cant see it here... 

It is hard to see the difference between skilled players and players with a lot of time to spend in the game. (since its a free to play game lets forget about the ppl who will pay for everything)

Maybe its because ive played the game for too long, but warframe is the only game that i cant play without watching something else on the side... because it doesnt even require a fraction of my focus to do everything in the game. There is nothing challenging me, other than my time. It has come to a point where i actually feel disgust farming things, whether i get the things im after or not.

So the question remains, were is warframe heading? is it gonna be a time consuming game, were nothing is challenging, and only drain your time?


Sorry for the long post, and please, once again, keep your ranty comments to yourselves.


P.S. I also am aware that they are working on improving the game, so please no "give them time","they are working on it". Whatever will come in the future, is still in the future.

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The answer is nowhere. DE just kind of puts in random ideas and systems that don't connect to eachother in any way and everything is essentially it's own system. Just look how many syndicates do we have. Kind of absurd isn't it? Right now you just grind for the sake of grinding and after you get the "meta" stuff nothing can stand in your way and there's not much point in grinding all the other things besides completionism.

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Well if current trends persist from DE, I'd say the prospects are sketchy. They frequently shoot themselves in the foot at every TennoCon by advertising in a disillusioning manner that seems to irk  the more prominent DE partners, (taking screen presentations at face value. (you'd think by now they would know better, and so should DE.)) eg. Empryean shipping with connectivity to the Eidolon plains for mission cross-connection. I knew back then It wouldn't ship like that, thus I was not disappointed. DE needs to be more... constrained... rather "restrained" in this aspect of creating hype to keep players drawn in. God... I know they need to keep perpetuating content to keep their numbers up, but WF has become the proverbial "Frankenstein" desperately in need of consolidation and refinement. Where is the game going?

 ‾\_(ツ)_/‾

Where do I think they should go?

Ans: More "lore centric" They've done well with this in the past. They should drive it forward.

Edited by (PS4)PanserKunst
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On 2020-02-09 at 9:51 PM, -CM-Harbinger said:

where is warframe heading?

Possibly trying to answer the community demand for sustainable content where if you look at it is RNG + grind, durability if you want to make it longer

On 2020-02-09 at 9:51 PM, -CM-Harbinger said:

nothing is challenging

The question is, what do you see as challenge, as a god-like being with void power? Maybe we can revert the melee nullifier speed to the original speed where they're not that painfully slow when they only have prova on each hand as start

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I wish the studio would go back and redo stuff to be more fun. Seems like it gets rushed out and left that way.

The Standing system isn't fun at all. DE, please take the time to change it into something more deep and interesting like a big old skill tree.

Doing the same mission and hearing the same speech over and over for random warframe blueprints is not fun at all. Please redesign it.

I know the way these systems were designed now was because it's quick and easy, but it is not fun at all.

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11 hours ago, Redfeather75 said:

I wish the studio would go back and redo stuff to be more fun. Seems like it gets rushed out and left that way.

The Standing system isn't fun at all. DE, please take the time to change it into something more deep and interesting like a big old skill tree.

Doing the same mission and hearing the same speech over and over for random warframe blueprints is not fun at all. Please redesign it.

I know the way these systems were designed now was because it's quick and easy, but it is not fun at all.

I really wish that every Warframe was quest-acquired: a series of missions (hey, make it longer, or more difficult, and require solo-only, whatever) that ended with the individual pieces without any randomness or "only rotation C" aspects. Just a quest, with storyline, and some fun missions, and then you have the base warframe to build. 

Edit: obviously that requires a lot of additional work - changing boss drops, for instance - but even if it was "clear this planet, get this Warframe" (as opposed to "spam this boss until you get all the parts") I think it would be more interesting and engaging. If every planet had its own fully developed storyline from node to node the first time you cleared it, and you got the parts on the way and the main blueprint from the boss...that would be very cool to me.

Edited by Ham_Grenabe

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Someone laughed at my post above. Was it the suggesting a skill tree part. I was only talking about how progression systems in warframe are not fun.

Climbing stairs to get to a door, and behind that door is even bigger stairs to another door. That's not fun at all.

Edited by Redfeather75

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What I've found most disappointing so far has been the lack of lore. They basically bailed on the idea of proper frame quests and backstory for them as playable content. That alone has been a massive outcry in the community at large but they've also sunk exponential amounts of time into world building areas like Fortuna that are about as wide as the ocean and deep as a puddle. Even with the inclusion of these areas, we really haven't been given much of a reason to go back to them. We have a distinct lack of connectivity and New War may fix that to an extent, but it will only go so far in that same regard. DE has said many times before that the game will live and die by content. The problem is that content has been coming fewer and farther between but usually with exponentially higher levels of grind for it. No one has really been happy with that on any side from what I've seen.

The increasing over reliance on RNG as a stalling method has been an issue for a while now and the seeming push to a payout option to reasonably play the game has been a bit of a march to the worst practices of the game market at large. The launch of Harrow and Nidus are a great example of this in action. When both frames launched, their drops were put in at such a low frequency that it basically deadlocked content. We saw massive outcry and demonstration that it was in fact faster to farm out prime sets, find a buyer, and simply pay for the frames rather than take part in the content. The farms for them itself had come under fire for being largely annoying and unrewarding at the time in addition to being in at least one case just recycled content from JV.

In short, I'm highly worried about the development outlook for the game. They're sinking into the same rut that WoW did that eventually saw the player base start leaving in droves due to long development cycles for less than desired content that tended to be super buggy for long periods of time after release. I'd rather not see this game turn into the next WoW and then reemergence of the game in popularity by effectively putting out a reset back to the basic game. We all miss proper community events in the game and regular content that actually had story and not this massive grind wall for little more than tenno reinforcements.

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On 2020-02-09 at 11:51 AM, -CM-Harbinger said:

...

And with all my respect to the devs, DE and all other devs in the gaming industry, games (mostly online, and some single player games) seem to challenge players' time and not their skills.

That's true only for PVE games (and even then, not all of them). That's why I quit WF almost a year ago and have been playing a PVP MMO since then. While there's grind there, the grind has a purpose (to get more competitive in pvp) and my skill is constantly challenged on a moment to moment basis. 

The truth is that Warframe is broken at a core mechanical level. There's no salvaging this game. It'd have to be Warframe 2, but sadly DE said they aren't going to do that. With the way combat, core mechanics and power creep work, WF will always be an afk farm simulator where the only challenge is RNG. They can nerf weapons all they want, it's not going to change things. 

Which is sad, because I still haven't found a live service game with story and aesthetics as cool as WF has, and the combat is genuinely fun, but it's just completely broken and has been for several years. Anyone who wants more than a pretty afk farm-collector simulator while they watch netflix on the side better accept the fact that Warframe isn't the game for them and quit before wasting even more time. 

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If DE was a person, they would be the Joker from The Dark Knight and they would say "Do I really look like a guy with a plan?"  What they have been doing for years is working on some other mini expansion of the game be it fortuna, railjack, plains of eidolon, etc. etc. and that's what will continue to happen with new war, duviri paradox, and whatever comes after.  

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On 2020-02-09 at 6:51 AM, -CM-Harbinger said:

Where is warframe heading?
Throughout my time playing warframe, i have both some good times and bad times, this is referring to all the grind and RNG in the game. And its all good and dandy as warframe is a free to play game and its been one of my favourite online game in a long time. 
But at almost 4000 hours played, with all the RNG and grind added to the game, i cant help but wonder, where is warframe heading?

Now to be clear, this is not supposed to be a rant or anything negative, im just looking for some clarifications and understanding. (please keep your useless/unnecessary comments to yourselves).

For example, lets look at the riven system:
First of all, i dont mind rivens, its not the best nor most fun system in the game, i could play with or without it. But to get a decent riven, here is what you need to do (without trading).
1. you need to get it from sortie, or get enough shards to trade with Paladino, were both requires RNG (lets call it RNG1)
2. after getting a riven, you unlock it and you get a riven for a random weapon for that "class"of weapons (RNG2).
3. if you dont get a super good roll from the start, you need to reroll it with kuva, and good god how much kuva it might need... (RNG3).

OR

1. buy a good riven with plat.

Next example is the lich system:
Lets consider the recent change to the lich system as it helps ppl get that weapon they have been looking for for a long time. But what does it take to take down a lich?

1. you need to farm thralls to get requiem relics. (RNG1)
2. you will open those relics to get requiem mods. (RNG2)
3. you need to farm murmurs to reveal what requiem mods you need to use. (RNG3)
4. you need to figure out what order you need to put those requiem mods. (RNG4)
5. even if you get the weapon you want with the element you need, it doesnt mean it has the best stats. (RNG5)
If you are one of the majority of the players who dont get lucky enough with the best stats on the first try, you will need to repeat all 5 steps.

OR

1. buy the lich with the exact stats and/or ephemera and do the cycle once.


Next we can look at the RJ system. Lets keep it short as we all know the mess it was on launch, but the RNG and the boring repeat of the same brainless grind is starting to show everywere.

And with all my respect to the devs, DE and all other devs in the gaming industry, games (mostly online, and some single player games) seem to challenge players' time and not their skills.
This is so clearly demonstrated here in warframe. It has gotten off lightly by being a free to play game, and thats understandable... but at what point does it become unfair?

I have heard the devs talking about respecting players time, but i just cant see it here... 

It is hard to see the difference between skilled players and players with a lot of time to spend in the game. (since its a free to play game lets forget about the ppl who will pay for everything)

Maybe its because ive played the game for too long, but warframe is the only game that i cant play without watching something else on the side... because it doesnt even require a fraction of my focus to do everything in the game. There is nothing challenging me, other than my time. It has come to a point where i actually feel disgust farming things, whether i get the things im after or not.

So the question remains, were is warframe heading? is it gonna be a time consuming game, were nothing is challenging, and only drain your time?


Sorry for the long post, and please, once again, keep your ranty comments to yourselves.


P.S. I also am aware that they are working on improving the game, so please no "give them time","they are working on it". Whatever will come in the future, is still in the future.

DE doesn't even know where they're going. 

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