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Murasame37

Railjack Request and Rant

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Can there be a system where owners of Railjacks, the ones who slogged through farming ridiculous amounts of resources and waited 6-9 days of building, have full control of their own ships? I find it infuriating when:

  1. Someone pilots my RJ when I had to man the cannon since no intelligent random player forgot its existence.
  2. Someone refines the very meager resources dropped by enemies at the end of the mission.
  3. SOMEONE WHO IS NOT THE OWNER OF THE SAID RAILJACK CAN CONTROL THE NAVIGATION PANEL THAT CAN OVERRIDE THE PILOT AND/OR CAPTAIN.

I know that these is like pissing into the wind, but can we at least know when the Command Intrinsic will be available? So I can just return to the game when it's implemented?

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I hate going back to dojo after every pub mission because some stupid random refined the forge when the supplies was near zero and going into a random node because another dumb started it without even asking the group.

So yea, I really like that idea of the captain having full control of the ship, like the warlords have in the dojo. Setting what things on the ship can and cannot be interacted by someone who is not the captain.

 

When I finished my last MK III, I said good bye foverer for pub railjack.

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Agree, Railjack will fail utterly as a matchmaker mode if there aren't toggle lockouts on several functions and a couple other limitations.

1. There should be lockout toggle settings for flux abilities, cannon, missile use, nav use and refining at bare minimum. A host migration would turn off those toggles for the duration of the mission.

2. There should be a "kickout" feature on the slingshot and cannon that triggers after 20 or so seconds.

That's a start. Without such, railjack will be a very niche "clan/friend" only mode and totally DOA as a matchmaker mode. 

 

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The Navigation console simply needs a consensus vote, the same as starting a regular mission from the Orbiter. I said this from the start, but people were too busy telling me that only the host was "supposed" to be able to use it. Well, I'm restating it now. Would also be nice to have a between-mission state that's not just going back to the Dojo, too.

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Had a random hop in the artillery cannon at the beginning of the mission and then AFK yesterday...

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+1

1.  I hate when someone pilots my ship without asking.  I had to host migrate because some jerk wouldn't leave my seat. I should be able to go hostile on them, kill, and throw out airlock.  This Tenno ain't worth saving. 

2.  Refining in general needs an overhaul. 

3.  Yep, how it was in the beginning was correct.  The pilot has control, don't like it, go pilot your own.   As long as players can leave after mission and collect all rewards, there is no problem here.  

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Pilot and cannon:
Maybe allow the host or anyone to take over and replace with action button. Bad when an AFK / idling player controlling the pilot, doing nothing but preventing others to use it.

Refine:
Maybe it is best to not allow refine until the mission is completed, and automatically refine with going to Dry dock. When full, have it automatically partial refine so nothing is lost. Probably just have no refine button.

Navigation:
I don't know why there are still no individual extraction for clients in Empyrean, that is better then force dragging everyone out of the completed mission, with no votes to show.

Maybe anyone can use navigation might be good when hosting player is dead with no lives. https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1158400-host-dead-no-way-to-return-to-drydock/

The old topic where some say only the host should be the only one that can use navigation:
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1153060-we-need-votekick-now-more-than-ever/
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1157382-any-way-to-prevent-my-teammates-from-launching-the-railjack-post-mission/

Update 27.1.0

On 2020-02-04 at 12:58 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Fixed Railjack Host being able to use Navigation before the mission is complete and Clients inability to use Navigation at all when launched from the Dry Dock.
For clarification, the correct functionality is Host and Client can use Railjack Navigation after mission complete and neither can use Navigation before mission complete.

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20 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

The Navigation console simply needs a consensus vote, the same as starting a regular mission from the Orbiter. I said this from the start, but people were too busy telling me that only the host was "supposed" to be able to use it.

Bingo. Honestly it should be locked to the captain, but not having a regular mission vote like the rest of the game just doesn't make sense, both before and especially after the change.

As for the other points in this thread, refinement should just be removed. At this point, with a completely topped out RJ and 150+ hours sunk into farming up everything available, I'm fairly certain that refining only adds +280% to what resources are in the forge.

For example, you've collected 1,000 pustrels. You have 1,000 total and 200 of that 1,000 are held in the forge. You don't lose 200 by not refining, you still get them at the end of the mission. Refining only adds 280, but it reads as 480 because you're taking those 200 that were in the forge out of it. Meaning you're only gaining a +28% boost total by refining. And it stacks from mission to mission if you don't refine, which is why if anyone's ever done 3-4 mission runs, and maxed the forge holding on each of them, its always a multiple of 280. That extra 280 doesn't help with the thousands of resources needed to make a single RJ part. It adds very little and gives trolls a way to screw the entire party mid-mission regardless of how it functions, and it would be nice if DE could just explain the way it functions clearly in a post, but... DE is DE.

As for people AFKing/ taking over piloting and flying the ship into rocks and missiles, there's actually a fairly easy way to fix that. As much as I'd like to Bane these people Kuva Lich style, DE obviously isn't going to let us do that. A simple order of priority for the Captain would fix it though. Someone sitting in the Artillery and not doing anything on my ship? If I walk over to the Artillery chute and hit action, it forces them out and puts me in instead. Some nincompoop decided to hop in the pilot seat and fly 1000m away from anything while I was in the Artillery? Same thing, I walk over, hit action, it boots them out and puts me in. It's my ship, I dumped actual millions of resources into putting it together, and from a lore perspective as well Cy should recognize that. I love RJ as a game mode, but DE really doesn't seem to be taking into account the fact that players just aren't going to do exactly what they thought they would with the way the systems are structured.

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15 hours ago, Hyohakusha said:

Bingo. Honestly it should be locked to the captain, but not having a regular mission vote like the rest of the game just doesn't make sense, both before and especially after the change.

Honestly, I don't understand why that was even allowed to go through in the first place. I don't want to speculate as to what might have happened internally to lead us to this "bug," but they already have a system for this. Every other mission in the game needs a consensus vote to start. I get that there are likely technical limitations to this since Railjack missions seem to be implemented differently, but if there are... Fix those issues as a priority. At this point, the mode is stable enough to not constantly crash, softlock, break, disconnect or rob people of their rewards. At this point, random people throwing you out of a mission early or into a mission you didn't mean to go to is by fat the most disruptive aspect of Railjack.

 

15 hours ago, Hyohakusha said:

For example, you've collected 1,000 pustrels. You have 1,000 total and 200 of that 1,000 are held in the forge. You don't lose 200 by not refining, you still get them at the end of the mission. Refining only adds 280, but it reads as 480 because you're taking those 200 that were in the forge out of it. Meaning you're only gaining a +28% boost total by refining. And it stacks from mission to mission if you don't refine, which is why if anyone's ever done 3-4 mission runs, and maxed the forge holding on each of them, its always a multiple of 280. That extra 280 doesn't help with the thousands of resources needed to make a single RJ part. It adds very little and gives trolls a way to screw the entire party mid-mission regardless of how it functions, and it would be nice if DE could just explain the way it functions clearly in a post, but... DE is DE.

I'll do you one better - get rid of resource-based crafting within Railjack missions altogether. I've proposed this before: introduce a new in-mission-only resource (I like to call it "Omnigel") and convert all Forge crafting costs to that resource. This does two things. For one, you're not eating into your resource gain by crafting items in-mission, minor as the cost may be. Nothing is "too expensive to use," meaning we lose a disincentive to use some of our ship's more entertaining abilities. Secondly, it removes the need for Refining altogether. You can't take Omnigel out of the mission with you, so it doesn't matter how much of it is left in the forge at the end. Its only use is Forge crafting and nothing else. Think of it as a counterpart to ammo boxes in regular ground missions. You can only use those for your guns, you can't take them out of the mission with you. This would be identical, except it would be one resource and you choose whether you use it for ammo, health or energy on the fly.

Even better, this could add a bit of "persistence" to Railjack missions. Let people keep their Omnigel from mission to mission, meaning that if you use it too much you may not have enough for the next mission. Then give players some minor bonus for running consecutive Railjack missions without returning to the Dry Dock, something like a Void Fissure Like +X% XP for follow-up missions. Then, either have returning to the Dry Dock simply auto-refill our Omnigel for the next mission, or give us an option to pay to refull it, if we HAVE to have a pointless resource sink of some kind.

Crucially, using Omnigel - a resource which exists only in missions and we don't get to keep - as the ship's source of health, ammo and energy would solve a lot of technical issues.

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After completing the last mission node on Saturn Proxima, which was tough since I don't have great weapons. The last straw for me not liking the whole "Randoms getting to control my ship" part is right after the mission was over, there were a lot of loot on the map. I didn't managed to collect them since I was just trying to not die.

In comes the random #*!%s. I told them to collect the loots. Instead, the pricks initiated a jump to the dry dock.

RJ is great in gameplay, but DE's misplaced optimism towards players resulted in an unfair system that either discourages you to get a Railjack or your own, or cucks you in your own ship.

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