People won't like this... but can we get rid of the wall hang timer?

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Realistically, there are very few situations in warframe where wall hanging does us a whole hell of a lot of good. That's an objective fact. Most of the game's arenas are tight corridors and the over all mechanics of the game is just to stay in constant motion.  Warframe is less of a game of tactics and more a sugar fueled rampage. There are maybe... three... or four scenarios where wall grab actually does you any good. And you can't use it in those scenarios because it lasts too short a time to make use of.

It would be useful in defense missions for a over watch to stick to a sniper's nest, and fire down on targets. targets which because of frames like ember and saryn won't exist in the mortal universe long enough for you to have much of a edge over them. it would make Proton Jet a very useful mod set but again only on those very limited cases where in there's actually a viable means by which to stay wall grabbing. 

It really feels like there's no good reason for there to be a timer because it's so limited in ways it could actually be useful. So if the timer serves no purpose.... why even bother having it?

[taiiat]

probably to keep Players from being in locations that Enemies absolutely cannot get to ever, necessitating that you have to go to normal Terrain sometime.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

2 minutes ago, taiiat said:

probably to keep Players from being in locations that Enemies absolutely cannot get to ever, necessitating that you have to go to normal Terrain sometime.

Which is completely different from what Ivara can already do with her dashwire arrow. 

[taiiat]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

Which is completely different from what Ivara can already do with her dashwire arrow. 

in a way yes, the places you can hang to doesn't need to have ground anywhere around, you could hang infinitely in some corner of a Tile. Dashwire lets you not touch any surfaces, but the placement of the Dashwire does have limitations to begin with. you've probably noticed that there's places that you can't place it (Casting happens, but no wire appears), game tells you no.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

4 minutes ago, taiiat said:

in a way yes, the places you can hang to doesn't need to have ground anywhere around, you could hang infinitely in some corner of a Tile. Dashwire lets you not touch any surfaces, but the placement of the Dashwire does have limitations to begin with. you've probably noticed that there's places that you can't place it (Casting happens, but no wire appears), game tells you no.

Very rarely. Any place I want to place a zipline it lets me, often i set up my wires in odd out of the way places with good area coverage, preferably from things hanging from the ceiling with no direct access to the ground. when it comes to things like infested they're kinda out of luck except for the rare time i need to return to the ground in prowl to pick up ammo. I don't know what you're trying to clip a line onto, but the only limit I've ever found on ziplines is range. The entire point, is to set up my zipline somewhere nothing can reach it. It's usually how i deal with high level stuff because things tend to ignore you when you're on a zipline, don't know if that's a bug or is just an acknowledgment to the fact that people seldom think to look up when looking for potential attackers. 

Zipline arrow isn't listed as effected by range. But I've noticed that its ability to connect two points is more limited when you have reduced range but is much more forgiving when you have increased range, the only time I've ever had zipline arrows fail is if im trying to link two points that are just ridiculously far apart. In defense missions with open ceilings the first thing I do is create a web high atop the map for shooting down from because nothing bothers you.

So. Really. No. The game has never told me no as long as the points I'm trying to connect make sense. 

[Kainosh]

I dont need that.  And i use latch a fuken lot.

It lasts for 6 seconds unmodded. More than enough time to empty a sniper clip, do a Wall hop upwards (to refresh latch) and Repeat.    If you r too slow for that, use mods. We have a lot of Latch duration mods. 

 

I do want it to be more sticky tho....It sometimes fails to attach.  And DE totally need to refresh those old tiles with more platforming and verticality....Some Lua style Hovering platforms in combat zones would be great for latching.

[DatDarkOne]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

Zipline arrow isn't listed as effected by range. But I've noticed that its ability to connect two points is more limited when you have reduced range but is much more forgiving when you have increased range, the only time I've ever had zipline arrows fail is if im trying to link two points that are just ridiculously far apart.

The max range for Dashwire is 100m.  This cannot be increased with mods.  There is also an angle limit.  I think it's either 60 or 45 degrees.  Anything over that and you won't get a Dashwire.  

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

Careful, guys. You're gonna get dashwire nerfed.

I can't use wallhang effectively because of my aiming setup. Crazy high sensitivity for camera, and slightly reduced sensitivity for aiming.

Removing the timer would help me, but I don't see it happening for the reason taiiat mentioned. You might not experience dashwire failcast at bs locations, but DE would prefer you did.

I'd settle for a separate slider for wallhang sensitivity. 1-100 acting as a multiplier on your aimed sensitivity, with 50 matching it. Scale accelerates at the 25 and 75 marks.

Edited February 10, 2020 by (PS4)BlitzKeir

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

The max range for Dashwire is 100m.  This cannot be increased with mods.  There is also an angle limit.  I think it's either 60 or 45 degrees.  Anything over that and you won't get a Dashwire.  

Then i think it glitches sometimes because I've seen dashwire do some pretty weird things. 

[DatDarkOne]

Just now, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

Then i think it glitches sometimes because I've seen dashwire do some pretty weird things. 

It's easy to test.  Just get a sniper rifle and look through the scope.  It will give you the exact range to whatever you are looking at.  You will notice that anything over 100m just won't make a line attach.  The angle limit keeps us from making vertical dashwires more than likely for gameplay reasons.  

4 minutes ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

Careful, guys. You're gonna get dashwire nerfed.

I'm not worried about DE nerfing Dashwire.  They're too busy nerfing the hell out of stealth mechanics to bother with Dashwire for a while now.  

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

4 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

It's easy to test.  Just get a sniper rifle and look through the scope.  It will give you the exact range to whatever you are looking at.  You will notice that anything over 100m just won't make a line attach.  The angle limit keeps us from making vertical dashwires more than likely for gameplay reasons.  

I'm not worried about DE nerfing Dashwire.  They're too busy nerfing the hell out of stealth mechanics to bother with Dashwire for a while now.  

Gravity? What's that?

Stealth mechanics?.................... Which? What stealth mechanics?

[taiiat]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

I'd settle for a separate slider for wallhang sensitivity. 1-100 acting as a multiplier on your aimed sensitivity, with 50 matching it. Scale accelerates at the 25 and 75 marks.

i'd be all for that. change everything while we're at it there - basic Camera Sensitivity 0.01-4.0; Fine Aim Sensitivity, 0.01-4.0 (Multiplier on basic Camera); Scope Sensitivity, 0.01-4.0 (probably also Multiplier on basic Camera rather than Multiplier on Fine Aim); Wallhang Sensitivity, 0.01-4.0 (Multiplier on Fine Aim).

i remember ~15 years ago when Camera adjustments being that granular was essentially standard. and now thesedays we get Kappas out of 100 or just unmarked bars.

24 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

The angle limit keeps us from making vertical dashwires more than likely for gameplay reasons.  

but what if i wanted to create a Ladder! >:|

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

1 minute ago, taiiat said:

but what if i wanted to create a Ladder! >:|

Ask for prayer from the church of ladder day saints?

[DatDarkOne]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

Stealth mechanics?.................... Which? What stealth mechanics?

What we use to have before PoE and DE changing the enemies to being omniscient with fantastic detection range.  

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

What we use to have before PoE and DE changing the enemies to being omniscient with fantastic detection range.  

So you're suggesting it's not natural for something with neck armor so thick that their field of view is basically limited to how much they can move their eyes to be able to see out their ass hole?

*creeping up on Grineer... suddenly their pants drop and a security camera on an articulated arm shoots out their sphicter* NOT SO FAST TENNO! I SEE YOU! YOU CAN'T SNEAK UP ON ME!"

[Steel_Rook]

I know you guys are probably sick of hearing this, but I still feel that Glide and Latch really ought to be separated from Aim. My most frequent use for Latch isn't to snipe from a wall, but rather to pause mid-wallrun so I can look around and aim a follow-up jump. This is made significantly harder considering I can't latch without aiming, doubly so if I happen to be using a scoped weapon with high zoom. Personally, I'd rather use either the Crouch or Dodge button for it. Probably crouch, so I can air-slide-glide into a wall and automatically latch onto it with toggle crouch, only dropping off when I disable crouch. Or jump, I guess, which typically disables crouch anyway.

And yes, I'd rather have infinite latch. Honestly don't know what the benefit is to limiting that by a timer. Yes, people could camp on a wall and snipe, but people can already do that by hopping every so often or by use of an Ivara zipline, or by use of a Loki whose latch is basically infinite anyway. You guys keep telling me that Warframe is all about mobility and verticality, so wouldn't giving us the ability to stay almost entirely off the ground be consistent with that design? If you're that worried about people latching out of range of Infested... Maybe let the Infested climb walls and ceilings like the Ailiens they are?

[FireSegment]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

Which is completely different from what Ivara can already do with her dashwire arrow. 

there's a different between a perk that some frames can provide, and a global mechanic that every frames can exploit, 

But then again, DE aren't really good at calling that distinction themselves.

 

[Shonaney]

12 seconds dashwire timer will be added with the next fix

id like to get rid of the wall hang timer ... by removing that wall hang ... cause often i jump around into aimglide and got stuck at a wall ... XD
(or ofc change how you latch)

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Steel_Rook:

If you're that worried about people latching out of range of Infested... Maybe let the Infested climb walls and ceilings like the Ailiens they are?

or provide a dmg tick if we latch at infested missions cause walls n stuff also mostly covered with infested spores

Edited February 10, 2020 by Shonaney

[Steel_Rook]

1 hour ago, Shonaney said:

id like to get rid of the wall hang timer ... by removing that wall hang ... cause often i jump around into aimglide and got stuck at a wall ... XD
(or ofc change how you latch)

Bit off-topic, but I'll go with "change how you latch." Keep Aim on its current keybind, move Glide to "Hold Jump," move Latch to "Hold Crouch." This does two things. It means that if you glide into a wall, you transition to a wall-run because you're already holding Jump. If you air-slide into a wall, you latch because you're already holding Crouch. And best of all, you don't swap back to your guns in either case and you don't have to worry about scope zoom.

[Teridax68]

9 hours ago, taiiat said:

probably to keep Players from being in locations that Enemies absolutely cannot get to ever, necessitating that you have to go to normal Terrain sometime.

I don't think this is really a design issue that can be solved by limiting players. If there are enemies that are unable to do anything to us while we're positioned a certain way, in a game where our movement is defined by our ability to parkour freely to pretty much every corner of the map, then the problem isn't that we can wall latch in weird places, but that enemies exist that are in no way adapted to our movement. Corpus and Grineer enemies don't really have this issue, as they have guns, but the Infested certainly do, which is why their units were given those silly spit attacks a while ago. In the end, all this suggests is that the Infested need an update as a faction (for a whole bunch more reasons too), while our wall latching needs no restriction at all. While we're at it, perhaps this could be an opportunity to give Loki a real passive.

[taiiat]

3 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

If there are enemies that are unable to do anything to us while we're positioned a certain way

not a certain way so much as certain locations. imagine, cubbyhole corners of Tiles that you could hide in for whatever reason, but you can't stand there, because it's not a place that you could actually stand. but we can Walllatch onto anything.
that's all i'm envisioning.

Edited February 10, 2020 by taiiat

[Teridax68]

16 minutes ago, taiiat said:

not a certain way so much as certain locations. imagine, cubbyhole corners of Tiles that you could hide in for whatever reason, but you can't stand there, because it's not a place that you could actually stand. but we can Walllatch onto anything.
that's all i'm envisioning.

I think that boils down to the same thing, though, just applied to level design. If levels are designed in such a way that our frames can hide in foxholes and murder everyone with impunity from there (which has happened before with Void tilesets and Excal turreting), then the levels aren't adequately designed for the game they're made for, and need to be altered. Limiting our ability to wall-latch may work as a stopgap measure, but that is ultimately just a band-aid to a slightly bigger problem that ought to be resolved anyway.

[taiiat]

15 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

I think that boils down to the same thing, though, just applied to level design. If levels are designed in such a way that our frames can hide in foxholes and murder everyone with impunity from there (which has happened before with Void tilesets and Excal turreting), then the levels aren't adequately designed for the game they're made for, and need to be altered. Limiting our ability to wall-latch may work as a stopgap measure, but that is ultimately just a band-aid to a slightly bigger problem that ought to be resolved anyway.

perhaps, but we also reset the Walllatch Timer by moving around on the wall, so i think we're okay as it is since that encourages Movement and the game definitely features much of that.

[Skaleek]

I'm all for infinite wall latch. No one does it anyways. At least make Loki's passive infinite wall latch. The poor guy has such a bad passive.

If the only argument against the wall latch is bugging out enemies in hard-to-reach places, well, there are places in the tilesets already natively. The typical 4 way orokin transfer room with the waterfall hole cubby secret room in the center is a prime example of this. The AI will never touch you there. There are a lot of secret rooms that the AI cannot reach.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Skaleek

[Ham_Grenabe]

I'm good with it being infinite. Most of the time I wall latch, it's an accident. The other times are to crack a riven using Equinox. 

So I don't see a need to have it be anything other than "until I decide to let go."