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While corinth has the best crit stats for and shotgun it's also the worst with its low pellet count at 6 and poor riven disposition how can it be a crit shotgun if blunderbuss only puts it at 57% instead of 75% since it should get a 165% prime version it's a joke right now with the worst crit chance of all the 4 class's and its reflected on rivens for shotgun which share the exact same crit chance and crit damage 

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The problem with the Corinth is that it's one of those weapons where DE decided to ruin it from the getgo by splitting the stats between crit and status, and even worse, made shotgun half crit while making the slow firing single shot grenade status. Not only is it bad design to split stats, forcing you into a situation where you can never get the full benefit of the mods you put into it, but WHERE they put the actual stats is completely backwards.

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20 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

WHERE they put the actual stats

The Meganium dilemma!

But yeah, while I do like the Corinth a lot (look and sound wise it's my fav primary), I certainly see its limits, and honestly can't fathom why they didn't just go ahead and make it a full crit weapon. I mean it's not like there is a scarcity of status shotguns anyway.

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It is actually on the table, since we've not gotten a new Prime Shotgun since the Tigris, and it's the most recognisable Tenno-made shotgun out of the two remaining contenders. Yeah, Strun is technically Tenno-made (mk-1 variant, same aesthetic as the Boar which has a Prime) but it's not instantly recognisable as one. It's definitely old enough to be a Prime too, since Baza is newer and just recently got the Prime treatment. It's also very different to the other primed shotties - Pump action semi-auto vs full-auto and quasi-single-shot that the Boar and Tigris pack (yeah, Tigris is technically two, but all the design traits indicate that the two shots are meant to come quite quickly after one another).

2 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

The problem with the Corinth is that it's one of those weapons where DE decided to ruin it from the getgo by splitting the stats between crit and status, and even worse, made shotgun half crit while making the slow firing single shot grenade status. Not only is it bad design to split stats, forcing you into a situation where you can never get the full benefit of the mods you put into it, but WHERE they put the actual stats is completely backwards.

Yes, the Corinth technically is a status weapon on the air burst, but in so far as I can tell, the air burst is designed to supplement the primary fire, not to be the primary damage-dealer. Otherwise it'd probably have been a more typical underslung grenade launcher. As is, with the innate knockdowns and problems suggested, it seems that it's supposed to be a one-two punch. Knock down a group of enemies with the secondary as you app, then pick them off with the primary fire. (also, yeah yeah, Status is super-powerful on Shotguns, but that doesn't mean that crit is innately just wrong and no shotgun should ever use it.)

It's not a case like the Euphona Prime or Quellor where the two fire modes are clearly intended to be used in tandem with each other but don't mesh well. It's more like Scourge or Ferrox -the Alt-fire is a tool. They could have made this more clear, I grant you, but that's what it seems to be from where I'm standing.

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22 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

It's not a case like the Euphona Prime or Quellor where the two fire modes are clearly intended to be used in tandem with each other but don't mesh well. It's more like Scourge or Ferrox -the Alt-fire is a tool. They could have made this more clear, I grant you, but that's what it seems to be from where I'm standing.

It actually is, because scaling in this game 100% guarantees it. It has nothing to do with the weapon and everything to do with what you're targeting, and once you get up to sortie 3 level enemies, you need everything your mods should be giving you, slow firing status becomes utterly useless, and crit focused shotguns not named Hek begin to fall off sharply.

The problem with crit shotguns is that if they don't have overwhelming base damage and crit- Which is difficult for most primaries to reach due to the mods- they can't overwhelm armor and TTK begins to ramp up dramatically as levels climb higher. Especially with logarithmic scaling creating a situation where you can't benefit from random, lucky corrosive or fire procs to keep you competitive. Even crit shotgun secondaries begin to have this problem, they just have it much later in the curve (well past the point where I expect scaling to drop off once the armor rework comes around, I have a feeling Piranha is going to be a secret top tier again soon).

Using the Scourge and Quellor really, really doesn't help your case, as they're both- to one degree or another- mediocre weapons. Especially the Quellor, because while it's the better of the two, it's literally designed the other way around, with the crit being on the big, slow firing blast and the status being on the rapid fire. WHICH MAKES SENSE. This weapon can actually be halfway competitive because they bothered to put the status and crit on the right parts of the gun. It's still forcing you to split mods, which puts it behind many, many weapons, but at least the stats aren't wrong.

This is before even getting into the Phantasma which is an exceptional weapon that I'd have a hard time arguing against being best in class. Not only as a shotgun, but as a beam weapon and grenade launcher. Notice they didn't split stats, and the secondary actually has a mechanic that makes it possible to apply status despite its moderately slow fire rate.

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I'm putting an Aero mod on my Sentinel's weapon, so that my shots while aim gliding puts enemies to sleep.

Then I use the Corinth's Airburst grenade on a group, for AoE Sleep.

I also use this shotgun(modded for over 100% crit) with Nyx for Psychic bolts.

 

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1 minute ago, XaoGarrent said:

It actually is, because scaling in this game 100% guarantees it. It has nothing to do with the weapon and everything to do with what you're targeting, and once you get up to sortie 3 level enemies, you need everything your mods should be giving you, slow firing status becomes utterly useless, and crit focused shotguns not named Hek begin to fall off sharply.

The problem with crit shotguns is that if they don't have overwhelming base damage and crit- Which is difficult for most primaries to reach due to the mods- they can't overwhelm armor and TTK begins to ramp up dramatically as levels climb higher. Especially with logarithmic scaling creating a situation where you can't benefit from random, lucky corrosive or fire procs to keep you competitive. Even crit shotgun secondaries begin to have this problem, they just have it much later in the curve (well past the point where I expect scaling to drop off once the armor rework comes around, I have a feeling Piranha is going to be a secret top tier again soon).

Fair point, though scaling in general throws a spanner into everything's works sooner or later. You can see this with Sobek at level 100 - it's a very competent armour stripper, which should make it a damn fine weapon, but it just... isn't. It demonstrates that Status meets the blockade of scaling sooner or later too. It's not so much a fault of the weapon as it is the game overall, one that I am looking forward to it getting dealt with. That said, Hunter Munitions. Really helps the Corinth out.

14 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

Using the Scourge and Quellor really, really doesn't help your case, as they're both- to one degree or another- mediocre weapons. Especially the Quellor, because while it's the better of the two, it's literally designed the other way around, with the crit being on the big, slow firing blast and the status being on the rapid fire. WHICH MAKES SENSE. This weapon can actually be halfway competitive because they bothered to put the status and crit on the right parts of the gun. It's still forcing you to split mods, which puts it behind many, many weapons, but at least the stats aren't wrong.

Agree on Quellor for the most part, but I'm not sure you got my point with Scourge.

Scourge's alt-fire is not meant to be its main damage-dealing option: you literally throw away the weapon when you use it and the damage is mediocre for anything save a finishing move if you're about to run out of ammo (albeit an extremely satisfying one). The true value of the Scourge's alt-fire is the gimmick, the bullet magnetism on the head. It serves a utility purpose - making your Secondary better through easier headshots, especially secondary shotguns. That's what it's there for. Corinth's alt-fire is the same way.

31 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

This is before even getting into the Phantasma which is an exceptional weapon that I'd have a hard time arguing against being best in class. Not only as a shotgun, but as a beam weapon and grenade launcher. Notice they didn't split stats, and the secondary actually has a mechanic that makes it possible to apply status despite its moderately slow fire rate.

This is definitely true, and what weapons like Quellor and Euphona should live up to. But that doesn't mean there's no space for weapons with utility-based alt-fires.

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Its actually quite possible to be the next prime as it was released less then a month after baza but it has no shot at ever being good unless they fuse both fire modes into an actual slug that doesn't explode but has a 25% status chance keeps the 30% crit chance but has 1 unique passive on headshot doubles the amount of slugs for 16 seconds so for instance if your getting 4 slugs a shot it's now 8 for 16 seconds 

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Yeah it just needs to be a slug shotgun it's a large caliber shotgun so it should shoot a high powered piercing slug not buckshot or an air burst grenade but the slug should keep its 30% cc 2.8x crit and give it  25% status chance 

Edited by warmastercain

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4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Fair point, though scaling in general throws a spanner into everything's works sooner or later. You can see this with Sobek at level 100 - it's a very competent armour stripper, which should make it a damn fine weapon, but it just... isn't. It demonstrates that Status meets the blockade of scaling sooner or later too. It's not so much a fault of the weapon as it is the game overall, one that I am looking forward to it getting dealt with. That said, Hunter Munitions. Really helps the Corinth out.

The problem is that the Corinth's potential falls off far before that of other weapons. "Other weapons also have to contest with scaling" is not an argument that refutes the problems that the Corinth faces against multiplicative EHP scaling, especially when what you're comparing it to can outright remove one of the multipliers. It gets worse when you factor in Warframe powers because the frames that can apply damage amps usually can't also strip armor with abilities.

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Agree on Quellor for the most part, but I'm not sure you got my point with Scourge.

Scourge's alt-fire is not meant to be its main damage-dealing option: you literally throw away the weapon when you use it and the damage is mediocre for anything save a finishing move if you're about to run out of ammo (albeit an extremely satisfying one). The true value of the Scourge's alt-fire is the gimmick, the bullet magnetism on the head. It serves a utility purpose - making your Secondary better through easier headshots, especially secondary shotguns. That's what it's there for. Corinth's alt-fire is the same way.

No, I got your point, it's just that your point is wrong. The Corinth's alt fire is an explosive projectile, and the only thing that could be construed as "utility" is the knockdown, which makes lining up headshots more difficult and potentially even reduces the exposed, perpendicular surface area of a target. Blast damage if often a NERF because it reduces enemy profile. With a shotgun you typically want to be firing at upper center mass, or at least in video games, strictly the head. 

And even if none of this was true, which it is, the Scourge is still a fiercely mediocre weapon. The reason I brought up the Phantasma is because it's both a vastly better weapon, and a vastly better comparison.

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Hopefully eventually but there are many more older weapons that need a prime before a rather recent shotgun does.

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Corinth is only half the problem, the other half is that Crit mods for shotguns suck, but this seems to be by design, as every shotgun introduced up until the Corinth was a Status weapon, so DE themselves pushed players towards building them for Status over Crit. since new Primed Mods that actually affect damage likely won't be a thing again, they should buff Blunderbuss to +120%. Vaykor Hek would also benefit from this too, especially since it can't use the Steel Meridian Hek augment.

but yes I like the Corinth, so i'd love to see it's prime version. 

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58 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

The problem is that the Corinth's potential falls off far before that of other weapons. "Other weapons also have to contest with scaling" is not an argument that refutes the problems that the Corinth faces against multiplicative EHP scaling, especially when what you're comparing it to can outright remove one of the multipliers. It gets worse when you factor in Warframe powers because the frames that can apply damage amps usually can't also strip armor with abilities.

Good thing we're on a thread asking for a Prime version, which would likely help it with that. Ultimately, the base Corinth's power is kind of irrelevant - this thread is about discussing a Corinth PRIME. At which point, it's the usefulness of the Corinth's mechanics that actually matter.

59 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

No, I got your point, it's just that your point is wrong. The Corinth's alt fire is an explosive projectile, and the only thing that could be construed as "utility" is the knockdown, which makes lining up headshots more difficult and potentially even reduces the exposed, perpendicular surface area of a target. Blast damage if often a NERF because it reduces enemy profile. With a shotgun you typically want to be firing at upper center mass, or at least in video games, strictly the head. 

On paper DPS, perhaps, but in terms of an actual fight with the weapon? It's a close-range weapon. The area that the alt fire knockdown covers propagates in an 8 metre radius around a point twenty metres away from the original shot. That means, the Corinth can affect something well out of the weapon's ideal range. In turn, that enables a player to get closer safely, so by the time the enemy is getting up (and thus the upper body is a more than viable target, especially since they can't move whilst standing up) you have a clear meat-shot, ready and waiting. Sounds like a decent enough utility to me - crowd control is utility when on a weapon. Scourge's secondary fire also has an explosive effect, does that make it intended for being the main damage-dealer of the weapon?

The fact the air burst will not explode if it hits an enemy - only doing a measly 100 base damage if it does - is further indication of it's intent to not be used as a main damage-dealer. You're actively encouraged not to shoot directly at enemies with this weapon. Even the status works in the utility point favour - after all, Corinth is a slasher, introduced after Hunter Munitions was added, so likely intended to be used with it. What works well with slash? Viral procs. What does the Corinth's low status And the Corinth's air burst has decently high status, and, when built right, viral proc priority. Would be surprised if that was a coincidence.

1 hour ago, XaoGarrent said:

And even if none of this was true, which it is, the Scourge is still a fiercely mediocre weapon. The reason I brought up the Phantasma is because it's both a vastly better weapon, and a vastly better comparison.

Is it a good comparison to the Quellor? Yes. Good example of two weapons using both fire modes as damage-dealing sources, one of which achieves that much better than the other.

Is it a good comparison to Scourge or Corinth? No. They use their secondary fire modes for different things. Maybe you prefer how Phantasma handles secondary fire? That's entirely subjective, and frankly, perfectly fine. But it isn't subjective that it's not doing the same thing as the Corinth is with its secondary fire. I don't think Phantasma's alt-fire should change either.

 

And, lastly, my final point as to why Corinth, and a hypothetical Corinth Prime should be and remain crit-based.

Because every other shotgun, except for Pyrana, is status focused to some degree. Euphona crit mode fires a slug that has no damage falloff (which at that point, isn't really a shotgun as it can be used at any range if you can hit the shots) and Vaykor Hek's a hybrid. Frankly speaking, some variety is appreciated, even if it doesn't fit into the meta.

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this weapon was added 2017 i think...need more two years or more for prime version/sindicate.

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I love the corinth. It is in my top 10 favourite weapons. The feel of it is so good. I am not against any buffs to it. 😄

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1 hour ago, Luciole77 said:

this weapon was added 2017 i think...need more two years or more for prime version/sindicate.

The Baza came out a month before it I am pretty sure! And we got Baza Prime already! 😵

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The next prime shotgun will probably be Corinth anyway. Strun is too similar to Boar and it's also a status based weapon. 

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On 2020-02-13 at 5:10 PM, Loza03 said:

Yeah, Strun is technically Tenno-made (mk-1 variant, same aesthetic as the Boar which has a Prime)

There's a Strun Wraith, doesn't that mean it's Grineer?

And yeah, we definitely do not need a status Impact prime shotgun.

On 2020-02-13 at 4:33 PM, warmastercain said:

While corinth has the best crit stats for and shotgun it's also the worst with its low pellet count at 6 and poor riven disposition

The poor riven dispo is because it's a very popular gun. It can't be that bad, and for most of the star chart it's pretty devastating.

On 2020-02-13 at 4:33 PM, warmastercain said:

how can it be a crit shotgun if blunderbuss only puts it at 57% instead of 75% since it should get a 165% prime version

Rifles get good crit mods and poor multishot, shotguns get good multishot and poor crit. They haven't done a Primed Blunderbuss because it would make shotguns the only primary anyone uses. It's partly why secondary shotguns are so strong, as they get better crit mods than primaries have access to.

Still, it does mean that to be a viable crit shotgun you need a lot more base crit than the equivalent rifle, and while the Corinth has good base crit it's nowhere near good enough.

It does have very long range for a shotgun, and very consistent DPS if you can get the reload rhythm in time with your headshots.

Corinth Prime needs:

- Primary 50% base crit chance and a 3x mult.

- Alt fire should go off if it hits an enemy or the ground after about 4m, to make it usable, and go up to 37% status chance.

- Slightly more base damage and slightly faster reload

- MR13-14 somewhere, this would be a gun for sortie 3, Liches and RJ.

Edited by (XB1)KayAitch

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21 minutes ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

There's a Strun Wraith, doesn't that mean it's Grineer?

And yeah, we definitely do not need a status Impact prime shotgun.

It SHOULD.

But we also have the Furax which is explicitly a Tenno weapon (mk1 description says it's standard issue to Tenno), and I'm pretty sure it's the only Tenno weapon that Grineer still use. And lo and behold, it also gets a Wraith.

Image result for it is a mystery ghost

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No reason a weapon can't have a wraith and prime variant.  Nothing stopping the grineer from going and retooling a weapon to make it a wraith variant.  

I just want primed blunderbuss, we've been waiting for that mod for years for crit shotguns.  Corinth should be primed as well, just think we haven't had a prime shotgun since tigris prime and that gun has already been vaulted and unvaulted...

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2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

It SHOULD.

But we also have the Furax which is explicitly a Tenno weapon (mk1 description says it's standard issue to Tenno), and I'm pretty sure it's the only Tenno weapon that Grineer still use. And lo and behold, it also gets a Wraith.

I mean, lore if you go back to the Old War the Tenno and the Grineer (and the Dax) were on the same side - they were all directed by the Orokin (before the Tenno rebelled and the Dax were wiped out). I suppose the Grineer still technically are (in that, spoilers, the Grineer queens are Orokin). The Furax and the Strun date from then.

Still, I'm not interested in a Strun Prime, the Strun Wraith is already the best semi-auto status+Impact shotgun possible and it's still MR fodder.

 

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