Another take on Warframes current big problem

[Walkampf]

So, yeah, another take on one of the most discussed topics on the forum, I know, I know.

 

Anyway, I think Warframes big problem right now is "over systemisation".

Everything in Warframes big updates were massive systems designed to bring players to play hours over hours. All of these system were basically providing infinite playtime, if you ignore the factor of fun.

The Kuva Lich system, the Arbitration system, the Sanctuary onslought system, the riven system.

Each end every of these massive updates introduced a system but not much of finite content, content with an actual goal.

It's all just about inceasing numbers.

Rivens for damage, arbitrations and onslought to get as far as you can, liches toi get the weapon with the best stats.

 

But why do I think that finite content is important and completly underestimated?

For example take the lore of Warframe. Sure, it's not very unique, but it's interesting nonetheless.

But this aspect has completly been ignored for years.

In the past Warframe had ingame events, which told a story, like

- the corpus discovering the entrance to the void, in the fusion moa event.

- Or where we, as a community, had to find phobos in order to get access to the planet.

- the "gradivus dilemma", where players were effecting the actual direction of the story of the overall game.

Sure, all three events were only reusing already existing systems, but people still loved the events at the time.

Some finite content resonates to this day. Why is Clem still popular? because his short quests were very memorable and fun. Take the weekly clem mission on the other side. it is infinitly replayable, and despite featuring clem, hardly anybody bothers to do them.

Or another example are prime trailers. only a few seconds and yet they gave a very nice look into the games lore. at this point people still want a Hydroid Prime trailer and all DE did was making a meme out  of the communities wish.

 

I hope i could explain my view clearly.

If not, I didn't come up with the idea myself, instead it was a World of Warcraft Youtuber, Bellular, who in his most recent videotalked about what he thinks is world of warcrafts big problem and while watching the videoi just happened to think that most of his points also fit Warframe.

Spoiler

 

 

[HugintheCrow]

There is a reason why my entire fan concept is a gigantic overhaul of story and lore (with a truck ton of quests and plotlines), and it is for the exact reason you mention.

In other words, I agree. 🙂

[Kaotyke]

So, ignoring the video.

The big problem is "less lore being given for more gameplay systems"?

One would think gameplay loop would be more important for player retention then lore.

 

[Walkampf]

No, not lore specific, but content with an actual designed end instead of infinite treadmills.

[SocialFox]

3 hours ago, Walkampf said:

Content with an actual designed end instead of infinite treadmills.

Oh my gawd ... you just summed up everything in this elegant, yet BRUTAL phrase.

I do think you could've coined this sooner, rather than the long ass description that hardly anyone cares about.

Have an upvote sir (only for what I quoted tho)!

Edited February 14, 2020 by SocialFox

[(PSN)horridhal]

Infinite treadmills are just that, infinite.  A player who plays forever spends more money than one with a definitive endpoint.

[Kaiga]

In a PvE game like warframe where you're against the same AI a lot and not say, different players, users who max out and are left with nothing to do will quit until there's new content released. Warframe has isn't that bad, but other games are much worse. See: runescape, or what's left of it.

Edited February 15, 2020 by GeneralKaiga

[Ham_Grenabe]

Yep. The trick is to design it so when you run out if content to do, you go away happy and satisfied, because you’ll be much more likely to return when the next content bolus comes along.

If you leave in frustration or abject boredom - which happens here because their metrics are about keeping people playing every day with brutal grind - you are likely to walk away for good.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[0_The_F00l]

I am in agreement. 

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

Yeah, I had a similar thread a little while back called "When do we have enough content?" with the main point being that DE can't just keep adding more forever without tying anything together in a meaningful way.

[Lost_Cartographer]

17 hours ago, Walkampf said:

No, not lore specific, but content with an actual designed end instead of infinite treadmills.

Problem with this is 99% of people will just blitz through it and never again touch it once they've completed it, then proceed to complain about having nothing to do.  Again.  Like's it a surprise it keeps happening.  This is the curse of MMO raids, and why DE is explicitly avoiding "tiered" content.  It's just developers racing players.

What people really want is what we hoped the kingpin/lich system would be - a personalized, generated expanding story between us and our own personal villain(s.)  Instead what we got was another simple isolated game system because yup, people really do play mostly for the rewards, lore is a cherry on the frosting that is fun and unfortunately people have this habit of licking off all the frosting before eating the cake itself, then trying to finish the whole cake in one sitting in as few bites as possible.  No wonder people are miserable.

 

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

6 minutes ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

and unfortunately people have this habit of licking off all the frosting before eating the cake itself, then trying to finish the whole cake in one sitting in as few bites as possible.  No wonder people are miserable.

Who hurt you? The reason people rush through the content and "only play for the reward" is because the content is usually just a tedious grind. If it weren't for the rewards, nobody would touch the stuff in the first place.

Edited February 15, 2020 by (XB1)Erudite Prime

[Walkampf]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Lost_Cartographer:

Problem with this is 99% of people will just blitz through it and never again touch it once they've completed it, then proceed to complain about having nothing to do.  Again.  Like's it a surprise it keeps happening.

This has already been adressed by @Ham_Grenabe

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Lost_Cartographer:

This is the curse of MMO raids, and why DE is explicitly avoiding "tiered" content.

Instead DE focuses on loot-islands. In the end, both work exacly the same, the only difference is, tiered system have to be cleaned in order, while loot-islands can be cleared in any order. The latter having the destinct disadvanted, that this takes away the agency the player feels when the next tier is coming into viewdistance.

vor 10 Minuten schrieb Lost_Cartographer:

What people really want is what we hoped the kingpin/lich system would be - a personalized, generated expanding story between us and our own personal villain(s.)

What you are discribing is

1st, another system, which is, which is the problem itself.

2nd, basically an A.I. that writes really good stories, so yeah, this is 100% a dream in our current technology. There were actual tests with A.I.s writing coherent stories. Try googleing them, it's quite funny.

vor 17 Minuten schrieb Lost_Cartographer:

we got was another simple isolated game system because yup, people really do play mostly for the rewards, lore is a cherry on the frosting that is fun

Well, this is 100% wrong. Numbers are only able to hold a persons interest for a certain amount. Again, as @Ham_Grenabe correctly pointed out. If Warframe only keeps people around for as long as possible, the game will only slowly bleed  out instead of the past, were Warframe was rapidly expanding it's audience.

vor 15 Minuten schrieb Lost_Cartographer:

people have this habit of licking off all the frosting before eating the cake itself, then trying to finish the whole cake in one sitting in as few bites as possible.  No wonder people are miserable.

Wow, Sasuke, i cut myself just by reading these lines. They are that edgy. Please tone down the Linkin Park.