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At least add Cautious Shot on Kuva Bramma


Zelonblake
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42 minutes ago, BoneBreakerx said:

i dont see the problem... i have a fully modded bremma with a riven... havent killed myself yet...

so if you keep dying to it... then stop useing it and leave it to ppl who can use it without blowing themselfs up...

i don't kill myself so easily, it kill me like 1 time in 3 missions, but congrats to you, the problem is, it's a big area weapon and the self damage is too high for it.

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To be honest, the Kuva Bramma is insanely strong. It not only has a 7m explosion radius, it also emmits little grenade clusters.

This weapons needs to have some negative issues, or they will nerf it.

I am fine with the self damage, it´s really a weapon you need to take care of.

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The submunitions don't have self-damage, and IIRC the reason it can't use Cautious Shot is because Warframe's spaghetti code nature involves a lot of really bad choices for design accretion like the game has turned into. In this case, the relevant technical stuff is that weapon classification is branch-based, not tag-based, so Cautious Shot requires Weapon -> Rifle -> Launcher, and the Kuva Bramma is Weapon -> Rifle -> Bow. A weapon can't be both a bow and a launcher for mods, because of the way they built the mod system.

Fixing it would need a full pass-over and quite a deal of likely bugfixing to swap from the branch-based weapon classification to tag-based classification, and that's a very low priority with DE's design process of constantly throwing more stuff out. Backend like the mod categories is a very low priority compared to bugfixing new systems as much as in-house development allows for (internal connection stability tests are very different from real-world ping) when you have no actual QA personnel who's life's mission is to make the programmers scream in inadequacy by trying the completely nonsensical things that really honestly should never have a chance to be a problem, and turn out to be game-ruining exploits (Power Donation with Archwing Launcher) and/or bugfests that make the content creators horrified (Railjack. That is all that should need said.).

Personally, I'd solve the problem by turning Cautious Shot into a 9-capacity Vazarin Aura, nerfing it to 85% on its own, which is full removal for the user if they have Coaction Drift, with the rest of the squad getting 97.75% reduction, for 225% of the current self-damage of a maxed Cautious Shot for the whole squad on just one person carrying it and Coaction Drift. It'd see use purely on the basis of being an 18-capacity-with-polarity-match Aura with the 85% reduction, which is still perfectly serviceable for the mild cases of self-damage like running into an Acceltra detonation or two or accidentally catching yourself in a Phantasma or Zarr detonation, and for enabling survival on some of the mega-tanks. Still a bandaid of a mod, but one that is pure opportunity cost of not taking a different Aura, and most auras are complete trash.

Actually fixing self-damage as a whole would be the work of a vast amount of table editing to refactor all the relevant fields in the game, whether that be reducing the health of every enemy and damage of every weapon (probably via nerfing base damage mods) or boosting everything to do with Warframe health and shields while increasing enemy damage by the same percentage. The key is having self-damage weapons be a lower proportion of player health. Very tedious work, and consequently makes enemy control and damage reflection considerably stronger unless those were to be deliberately nerfed to preserve their proportions. Given how they tend to suck balls for actually getting things killed, that can afford to be a collateral buff.

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19 hours ago, Banelingline said:

The submunitions don't have self-damage, and IIRC the reason it can't use Cautious Shot is because Warframe's spaghetti code nature involves a lot of really bad choices for design accretion like the game has turned into. In this case, the relevant technical stuff is that weapon classification is branch-based, not tag-based, so Cautious Shot requires Weapon -> Rifle -> Launcher, and the Kuva Bramma is Weapon -> Rifle -> Bow. A weapon can't be both a bow and a launcher for mods, because of the way they built the mod system.

This is probably both true and also a cop-out on their part; the mod could very easily just be changed to just be a general primary mod instead of being nested down into a specific category. As a simplest pass, this would technically allow it to be equipped on a LOT of weapons it does nothing on, but there are already a lot of mods that have no logic checks against being put onto worthless weapons. Including cautious shot as it is now since it already includes several weapons without self damage.

The other factor is flight speed mods. Terminal Velocity is not a universal mod, but is only equippable on rifles with actual projectiles, strongly suggesting that they DO also have the tech in place to have a mod just refer to a list of valid weapons; doubling down on this is the fact that both the Komorex and Fulmin came out unable to equip the mod and were later patched to be allowed to.

so yeah, while they have a ton of spaghetti code, I really don't buy any excuse from DE that they have no other option but to make an entirely new cautious shot for bows instead of changing the existing mod. Especially since this still leaves a bunch of self damage weapons with no equivalent. I feel like they're just continuing to be incredibly stubborn and spiteful about the general self damage issue.

Edited by OvisCaedo
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On 2020-02-15 at 7:54 PM, IamLoco said:

To be honest, the Kuva Bramma is insanely strong. It not only has a 7m explosion radius, it also emmits little grenade clusters.

This weapons needs to have some negative issues, or they will nerf it.

I am fine with the self damage, it´s really a weapon you need to take care of.

I agree. It's the first self-damage weapon in my eyes where the risk of one-shotting yourself is actually worth it.

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Am 15.2.2020 um 00:04 schrieb Zelonblake:

i don't kill myself so easily, it kill me like 1 time in 3 missions, but congrats to you, the problem is, it's a big area weapon and the self damage is too high for it.

Easy fix: DE should cut all explosives weapons damage to 5% of its original value... Or ppl should take care when carpeting a level in C4 bullets/ shells/ arrows. 

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16 hours ago, Twisted_Wisdom said:

If we could use Cautious Shot on Kuva Bramma, would expect the weapon to then be nerfed in some other way, so am happy not shooting my own feet to keep the damage we have now.

the whole point of cautious shot is to nerf the weapon's damage while reducing damage to yourself, too. it should just be available on any self-damaging weapon outright.

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I don't know if it's a bug or feature, I blow myself up with this thing when another player, my Kubrow or specter jumps in front of me as I am firing, they are fine. That being said I have fun with this thing and some of my deaths have been comical. Aim behind the enemies and have a corpse flying at you while you firing the second shot and down again. Wish we had a slow mode mode for the face coming at you, a pause and a lovely voice saying "At was at this moment He realized He ___ up."

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vor 15 Minuten schrieb SardethWynn:

I don't know if it's a bug or feature, I blow myself up with this thing when another player, my Kubrow or specter jumps in front of me as I am firing, they are fine. 

That is the only valid reason to change the self damage system. 

Or DE could instead add punch through for this weapons for the first 2 meters. 

Or even better DE should add the self arming of any projectile of explosive weapons like the did on the Acceltra. 

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So far I've run the Kuva bramma with a better safety than cautious shot: primed shred.

What is the main reason of unfortunate selfdestruction with launchers? morons crossing over your line of fire the moment you let loose the ammunitiion: pets, enemies, allies.

Primed shred or even regular shred solves the problem by letting you shoot through the obstruction at the juicy targets bejond!

Why it's perfect on the bramma? Because secondary fire lets you detonate arrows on command, letting players use them as airburst grenades, thus hitting enemies behind corners, doors, in the middle of groups, from behind when charging towards your frame etc. You have control on how, when and were you make things go kaboom!

And no enemy will kamikaze on you with your own explosives due to delayed fuses or stuck ammo!

Also emptying rooms behind closed doors to make Saryns green with envy!

And detonation on request takes care of those tiles were walls and floors aren't "thick" enough to blow them on contact!

Consider also the extra juicy rate of fire!

 

Tl:Dr

So why are shred /primed shred much better and desiderable than cautious shot on kuva bramma?

- very nice extra fire rate, to send more explosive love downrange;

- "perforation" to prevent unwanted selfdestructions from sudden obstructions by bulletjumping maniacs, moronic pets and leroy yerkinsing enemies;

- extra tactical options from ignoring closed doors and other intervening cover;

- actual self preservation and utility without going IDDQD or wasting slots on a mod that lets you explode anyway! (1% of a lot of damage is still more than what al frames except invulnerable ones can tank)

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