Should Depleted Reload be a weapon Exilus mod?

[voltwave81]

I recently wondered if this mod should be an Exilus weapon mod. This would bring the Vectis Prime back into being a really good sniper riffle(now that we got primed chamber from Baro) and the vectis lovers would be satisfied with the depleted reload mod as well.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

not sure, since I don't think any other Corrupted Mods are Exilus. that said, people have been using Depleted reload & Primed Chamber on Vectis Prime long before Weapon Exilus slots with few complaints, so I don't believe DE will see it as necessary.

[Senguash]

The whole point of the exilus slot is that dps mods aren't allowed there.

[Skaleek]

depleted reload is the same as fast hands, increases dps, so no.

[Leyers_of_facade]

how about introducing a mod that is similar to depleted reload, but only decreases mag 
xD

Edited February 15, 2020 by Leyers_of_facade

[unrealityCatalyst]

I honestly feel the argument that reload mods are ineligible because "it affects dps so lol no" is rather invalid. It's far more a QoL for a weapon than it is dps, because it's not like you're actually getting larger numbers out of being able to start shooting the exact same bullets at the exact same rate of fire just a bit sooner.

If we follow that logic further, then clip increasing mods should be disallowed as well because you don't have to reload as often, therefore giving you more dps over those who don't use ammo clip extension.

Edited February 15, 2020 by unrealityCatalyst
grammar

[Azure.M]

3 minutes ago, unrealityCatalyst said:

If we follow that logic further, then clip increasing mods should be disallowed as well because you don't have to reload as often, therefore giving you more dps over those who don't use ammo clip extension.

Uh, they are disallowed from exilus yes because of that.

[unrealityCatalyst]

8 minutes ago, Azure.M said:

Uh, they are disallowed from exilus yes because of that.

Huh. Could've sworn I saw the symbol on those. Still, fairly bs.

[LeonardBlyx]

3 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

not sure, since I don't think any other Corrupted Mods are Exilus. that said, people have been using Depleted reload & Primed Chamber on Vectis Prime long before Weapon Exilus slots with few complaints, so I don't believe DE will see it as necessary.

Vile Precision is an exilus and a corrupted mod. 

[trst]

4 hours ago, unrealityCatalyst said:

I honestly feel the argument that reload mods are ineligible because "it affects dps so lol no" is rather invalid. It's far more a QoL for a weapon than it is dps, because it's not like you're actually getting larger numbers out of being able to start shooting the exact same bullets at the exact same rate of fire just a bit sooner.

If we follow that logic further, then clip increasing mods should be disallowed as well because you don't have to reload as often, therefore giving you more dps over those who don't use ammo clip extension.

Less time spent dealing zero damage = more dps throughout a mission. Which can be a considerable dps increase if you account for re-applying status procs sooner.

 

Though on the topic of Exilus mods I don't know why Vigilante Supplies is one; while the mod itself isn't dps increasing it increasing the set bonus rank is.

[ShortCat]

8 hours ago, Senguash said:

The whole point of the exilus slot is that dps mods aren't allowed there.

8 hours ago, Skaleek said:

depleted reload is the same as fast hands, increases dps, so no.

3 hours ago, trst said:

Less time spent dealing zero damage = more dps throughout a mission. Which can be a considerable dps increase if you account for re-applying status procs sooner.

 

Though on the topic of Exilus mods I don't know why Vigilante Supplies is one; while the mod itself isn't dps increasing it increasing the set bonus rank is.

The purpose of a weapon is to deal damage, thus every mod is aimed at improving its performance or damage. If a mod does not increase weapon's performance it is not working. Search for another argument.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

Why not allow indirect DPS increasing mods in Exilus slots? Who actually cares?

[Golineth]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

Why not allow indirect DPS increasing mods in Exilus slots? Who actually cares?

But indirect DPS mods are allowed in Exilus slots. Stuff like Guided Ordinance or Fatal Acceleration does not increase the damage coming out of the barrel (direct DPS relative to the weapon) but has the potential to increase damage on target (indirect DPS relative to the weapon).

[Skaleek]

5 hours ago, ShortCat said:

The purpose of a weapon is to deal damage, thus every mod is aimed at improving its performance or damage. If a mod does not increase weapon's performance it is not working. Search for another argument.

Except zoom, higher ammo capacity does not increase damage. Though i will concede that flight speed mods increase falloff range on projectile weapons, and vigilante supplies does moderately improve criticals, so they are not consistent with the message being sent by DE. The rest, however, are. Swap speed, ammo max, zoom, would never be slotted otherwise. I don't need to find another argument, this is the explicitly stated reason from DE. The onus is not on anyone to "Search for another argument". The onus would be on you to explain why the exilus slot should be expanded to allow for mods that directly upgrade the weapons DPS. The best argument for is flight speed mods + vigilante supplies, imo.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Personally, I see it as a slot for those mods no one wants to waste a slot for because there are other better mods to put in.

[Emperrier]

I'd imagine a third of all unlocked wexilus slots are on Catchmoons for Projectile Speed, another third on "favorite primary" for the Vigilante ammo mutation, and then the rest is probably split between people moving over the recoil mod used on guns like Prisma Gorgon/Grakata so they can slot another DPS mod into their build, and some small percentage of people actually using the slot for something non-DPS-increasing like Hush or Cautious Shot.

"No DPS" is an asinine goal. The cat is out of the bag on that one, and pretending it isn't is a worthless way to discuss the slot and what it should do. 

The slot should be made useful on every gun instead of a select assortment of meta cheese, most of which are already better than most guns. The slot should include mods that are rarely used due to the 6-7 mod mandatory builds some guns have, like magazine size/reload/status duration/blast radius/punch through, and ALL bandaid weapon augments.

Primaries/Secondaries are universally worse DPS than pretty much any melee that doesn't have "Mk.1" in its name, they could use the 9th slot.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Emperrier

[Sylonus]

7 hours ago, Skaleek said:

Except zoom, higher ammo capacity does not increase damage. Though i will concede that flight speed mods increase falloff range on projectile weapons, and vigilante supplies does moderately improve criticals, so they are not consistent with the message being sent by DE. The rest, however, are. Swap speed, ammo max, zoom, would never be slotted otherwise. I don't need to find another argument, this is the explicitly stated reason from DE. The onus is not on anyone to "Search for another argument". The onus would be on you to explain why the exilus slot should be expanded to allow for mods that directly upgrade the weapons DPS. The best argument for is flight speed mods + vigilante supplies, imo.

TECHNICALLY, all the exilus weapon mods increase DPS, though yes some is a super minor amount, and you can debate how "direct" their effect is on DPS, but that's a bit hard to pin down, exactly what constitutes direct in this context.
Reload Whlie Holstered: Swap weapons instead of reload: Less time Reloading, more DPS.
+/- Zoom: When used correctly, less time spent acquiring your target, more DPS.
Ammo Capacity/Mutation: Allows you to take more shots due to less ammo efficiency concerns, more DPS.
Flight Speed: Either easier to hit targets, more DPS, or on the weapons it increases range before falloff, higher DPS at range. 
Holster Speed: Less time switching weapons, more time firing, more DPS.
Accuracy: Less missed shots, more DPS.
-Recoil: Less missed shots, more DPS.
Silence: Enemies move less at times, therefore less missed shots, more DPS.
Kinetic Ricochet/Fomorian Accellerant: Projectiles travelling further turns misses into hits sometimes, more DPS.
Tether Grenades/Adhesive Blast: Sometimes catch enemies in blast that would'n't have been caught, more DPS.

Exilus Weapon Mods all increase DPS, the question is how much they increase DPS, versus the other mods, I'd personally allow depleted reload, as it's a super niche mod that won't suddenly make the Vectis an all star but is nice there, and doesn't see a ton of use otherwise.

Also SOME exilus mods certainly did see use before the exilus slot, though they were generally niche, Ammo Mutation saw a reasonable amount of use, though on only a few weapons, Ricochet mods were pretty much universally used on the couple underperforming weapons they were usable on, Flight Speed and -Recoil saw some very limited use on a few weapons, and Silence was sometimes used on Ivara's setups.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Sylonus

[Luciole77]

primed chamber dont add much damage....my vulkar wraith has much more output damage. Lanka too....

[Methanoid]

tbh there needs to be a serious revamp of primary/secondary weapon exilus mods, 98% of them are utterly useless, i mostly end up using Hush/Silence mods or stabilizer mod, maybe 2-3 weapons ive used max ammo and on 1-2 shottys ive used fatal acceleration, but beyond those few the rest are 100% irrelevant, there simply is not a useful range of mods to bother unlocking the mod slot, there are simply the 1-2 obvious and only useful mods for specific weapons and the rest are pointless.

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

It's weirdly inconsistent in terms of DPS granting exilus mods.  Stabilizer, steady hands, vigilante supplies, these increase DPS.  In the case of kohm ammo mutation in exilus increases damage output.  That being said, if you make a reload mod exilus you kind of have to make them all exilus and they by and large increase DPS every time you use them.  You can even argue that tactical reload increase DPS because if you run out of ammo you can immediately switch to melee/secondary while it reloads for you though this is possible without the mod as well to a slightly lesser degree.  

What they should really do is simply decrease the clip size of vectis prime to 1 instead of 2, that way you don't have to see a ton of rivens with -mag cap in trade chat at frankly stupid prices or have people get taken advantage of when they see -mag size, however, with just 2 positives the -mag size on vectis prime rivens is almost always not enough to take the clip from 2 shots to 1 shot.  

[ShortCat]

8 hours ago, Skaleek said:

this is the explicitly stated reason from DE.

The officially stated reason is freaking mental, because it is based on paper calcualtions disregarding the actual effect those mods can have. Sylonus already covered how those mods improve performance. As I already stated, weapons are ment to deal damage, thus each and every mod will somehow improve their performance, if not, the mod is not working.

A good number of mods are not used becasue they are bad and simply cannot compete with overpowered mandatory mods. There was never a slot problem, there is a mod balance problem. Atm only 2-3 plexilus mods can find their place into certain builds, which can be considered a failure. An addition to the insult is the delibertaly wrong polarity on most weapons.

[SenorClipClop]

6 hours ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

Stabilizer, steady hands, vigilante supplies, these increase DPS.  In the case of kohm ammo mutation in exilus increases damage output. 

Not directly, though. (The exception being the Vigilante set bonus, ofc, but VS is trading off a full Mutation effect for a wee splash of Crit that's barely noticeable without more of the set.)

What is considered a weapon Exilus Mod may seem arbitrary, but it is consistent. Mods to increase Fire Rate, Reload Speed, Damage, Crit, Status, Punchthrough and Multishot are not considered Exilus. All Mods make a weapon more effective -- that's the point of Mods, so the argument here is how much effectiveness a Mod grants a weapon and whether or not that boost is small enough to warrant that Mod's inclusion in a short list of Mods allowed in an exclusive extra slot.

This is pretty subjective to each weapon, but a good general rule would be to take, say, Vigilante Fervor, imagine it's an Exilus Mod, then ask yourself, "would I slot any currently-Exilus Mod over Vigilante Fervor?" If your answer is generally "no", there's a good chance this Mod is too directly effective to be Exilus. Exilus slots are there to give those QoL mods a chance to be used, but if we have Mods that are overbearingly more powerful for use in that same space, those QoLs won't get used. Like, imagine if Streamline were Exilus, what other Exilus mods would you ever use?

 

TL;DR: Reload Mods aren't Exilus because if they were, everyone would slot Reload Mods into the Exilus and the purpose of a "utility mod slot" on weapons would be defeated. Also, stop asking for power creep.

[(PSN)STR8L8CED]

I think you should put any mod any where (besides aura and weapon stance) but thats just like my opinion. 

[Emperrier]

5 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

Not directly, though. (The exception being the Vigilante set bonus, ofc, but VS is trading off a full Mutation effect for a wee splash of Crit that's barely noticeable without more of the set.)

Projectile speed on shotguns is a pretty significant and direct DPS boost.

[Acersecomic]

Mag size, Max Ammo, Reload, Recoil, Zoom, Range, Projectile Speed.... thing that are not DIRECTLY damage should be Exilus mods.

I hear the argument "hurr durr but those do increase dps"... well then... why is Projectile Speed which increases shotgun DPS at range allowed and why is Power Drift an exilus mod when POWER DRIFT DIRECTLY INCREASES YOUR WARFRAME'S DAMAGE?!

DE, I've been saying this since the release of exilus slots for weapons... please... gameplay over nitpicking. Comfort over rock solid rules.

Some weapons don't even have a single possible use out of an exilus slot... because the things they need like reload (akbronco, twin roggas...) or magazine size (hystrix, ocucor....)  ARE NOT EXILUS.... what gives?! Exilus is supposed to be utility.