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Protea - Missed Opportunities


Gamefreak106
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Let me preface this topic by saying Protea seems pretty interesting so far.  But, (and this is a pretty hefty but), she doesn't really stay on theme with her 4th ability.  This was, in fact, an ability I proposed a long time ago to some friends as something that would be appropriate for a time-oriented frame.  However, here, we're talking about a gadget frame.  All of her functionality can be ripped off her trusty utility belt and deployed into battle... but what if the belt itself had a secret function of its own?

With that in mind, I propose a preemptive Protea rework with the following ult:

Cyclotron

Protea's unique mount that vastly accelerates her abilities!  Protea's utility belt expands into a high-tech monocycle with all deployable equipment converted into the vehicle's appendages.  Cyclotron offers a significant speed boost, the wheel itself dealing contact damage (the contact damage effect could be an augment).  The turrets can now be fired as a primary weapon which, of course, can be modded the same as any other equipped weapon.  When in this state, abilities gain a secondary function and have a slightly reduced energy cost.  The Cyclotron should be able to drift and (charge) jump.

  • 1st Ability - Shrapnel grenades can be fired like a mortar with increased range/power
  • 2nd Ability - Since turrets are now attached to craft and are used as a primary weapon, activating this ability fires a much more powerful charged blast
  • 3rd Ability - Resupply units now move and follow the Cyclotron, releasing support pickups when you drive past allies 

The Cyclotron ability would cement Protea's place as an engineer, taking all of her disparate parts and combining them to form her trusty mechanical steed.  

Why do I think Protea should be changed this way?  For one, it'd be insanely cool.  But secondly, because her current 4th ability - this "Temporal Anchor" - would be much more appropriate on a time-based Warframe to better synergize with similarly themed abilities.  Off the top of my head, here are a few abilities themed around a time based frame with Protea's current 4th ability.  Let's call this frame Chronos for lack of a more creative name.

Chronos

  • Temporal Ripple - slice your arm horizontally across your body, creating a slow moving time ripple; any enemy "sliced" by the ripple is frozen in time
  • Chronostasis - creates a bubble at your current location that lasts for several seconds, slowing all enveloped enemies and projectiles within and drastically affecting enemy tracking ability; enemies that leave your bubble remain affected but slowly recover speed 
  • Time Shift - Hold the ability to project a holo-sphere to allow you to better select your destination; release to teleport to the highlighted destination instantly, creating a temporal displacement implosion at your origin which pulls enemies into a central point and locks them in place
  • Temporal Anchor - now instantly rewinds you back to a state X seconds ago where X is determined by duration; no need to cast the ability preemptively to start recording
    HOWEVER, the anchor has a twist.  Any ability casts rewound will produce additional effects as Chronos moves backwards through time:
    • Enemies affected by Temporal Ripples will take heavy slash damage when Chronos rewinds past the ripple's casting animation; enemies killed this way will be slashed clean in half
    • Chronostasis bubbles will rewind all enemies still in range within at such a rapid speed such that they're flung backwards, ragdolling them, and dealing damage
    • Shift implosions cast in the timeline now explode when reversed, dealing blast damage and repelling enemies from the center point  
    • ADDITIONALLY, quantity/level of enemies affected by your time powers increase the damage dealt by those abilities when you rewind

Note the dichotomy here: Time powers only crowd control when cast in real time but cause much more damaging effects when they're reversed!  You're intended to delay as many enemies as possible while keep your allies alive, only unleashing your more destructive capabilities when you've caught enough enemies in your wake.

I'm still toying with other ideas with abilities that make more sense when reversed, but I think you get the idea.  To summarize, having this Temporal Anchor ability be used by an "engineer" frame greatly squanders its potential and just doesn't fit thematically!  I highly encourage devs to think about this before locking this ability to a frame who can't truly realize it!

Edited by Gamefreak106
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2 minutes ago, ResidentOrb21 said:

I don't think her abilities are even finalized yet. 

Definitely not, which is why I hope this post gets read sooner than later.  If the Temporal Anchor ability is taken up by Protea, then it won't ever be duplicated in another frame, hence wasted potential. 

I don't hate Protea's current design but it does feel like they're cramming disparate themes together in an awkward way.  The temporal anchor ability could be much better realized in another context.

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2 minutes ago, Gamefreak106 said:

Definitely not, which is why I hope this post gets read sooner than later.  If the Temporal Anchor ability is taken up by Protea, then it won't ever be duplicated in another frame, hence wasted potential. 

I don't hate Protea's current design but it does feel like they're cramming disparate themes together in an awkward way.  The temporal anchor ability could be much better realized in another context.

I think they said something about it might change to do something, if they can't get it down how they want it. And if its anything how they did wisp the concept of her basically changed when she got released from what they showed off in dev streams. 

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4 minutes ago, ResidentOrb21 said:

I think they said something about it might change to do something, if they can't get it down how they want it. And if its anything how they did wisp the concept of her basically changed when she got released from what they showed off in dev streams. 

Yeah, I mean in retrospect, an ability like that is pretty awkward to get right.  I've got my finger's crossed that they scrap the ult's design for now.  Even with Limbo's rework, I've still been pining for a tried & true time manipulation frame.  Seeing a rewind ability with so much potential used as a placeholder ult for a frame that doesn't have any inherent synergy is a bit disappointing.

Edited by Gamefreak106
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2 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I like her Ult.

I like her Ult as an ability on its own.  I don't like that this ult was paired with the rest of her other abilities.  It's not on the engineer theme and I didn't see any interesting synergies with other abilities shown in the Devstream.  

Of course, all this might be changed before she's released, so these are really just first impressions. 

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1 hour ago, Gamefreak106 said:

I like her Ult as an ability on its own.  I don't like that this ult was paired with the rest of her other abilities.  It's not on the engineer theme and I didn't see any interesting synergies with other abilities shown in the Devstream.  

Of course, all this might be changed before she's released, so these are really just first impressions. 

The idea is to let her spam her abilities and then get refunded all that energy, and untake Damage.

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301
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1 hour ago, Gamefreak106 said:

Definitely not, which is why I hope this post gets read sooner than later.  If the Temporal Anchor ability is taken up by Protea, then it won't ever be duplicated in another frame, hence wasted potential. 

I don't hate Protea's current design but it does feel like they're cramming disparate themes together in an awkward way.  The temporal anchor ability could be much better realized in another context.

I feel like it is going to be another situation similar to revenant

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28 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The idea is to let her spam her abilities and then get refunded all that energy, and untake Damage.

This is where we get into opinionated territory so take this with a grain of salt.  

Functionally, the ult serves some purpose, sure - to recover energy/life.  However, this purpose is purely generic and would provide the same level of benefit regardless of the frame.  It's not really an "engineer" ability and doesn't provide any direct synergy with the rest of her kit, so it really feels tacked on just to fill a role of "emergency healing."  Your statement, in a sense, even reinforces my point by reducing the ability to its most basic purpose in a single sentence - a life/energy heal.  All I'm saying is that the temporal aspect of this ability, when synergized with other abilities, could do so much more than what it's doing now!  My Chronos example in my first post is just one alternative that partially addresses my concerns.

Additionally, I'd argue that this frame's kit doesn't have any built-in need for this Ult's current effects.  I mean it's not like Protea seems any more ability-hungry than other frames, and she already has an ability that provides health/energy.  So doesn't this ult, (which by the way, currently requires that you have to activate the ability once to even start recording your actions) seem a little redundant and somewhat inefficient?  Again, see the original post, since I proposed a kit for Chronos that fully utilizes the unique temporal aspect of this particular Ult. 

So in short, DE took a potentially thematic time-based ability, stripped it of its character, and haphazardly stuck it on a thematically incompatible frame that doesn't really seem to need it.  To reiterate, I don't hate the ability nor do I hate her current kit, but I feel that this current Protea design wastes a lot of potential for this otherwise compelling Ult.

Edited by Gamefreak106
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2 minutes ago, Dark_Light305 said:

I feel like it is going to be another situation similar to revenant

Agreed.  A lot of Revenant's kit didn't really scream "Eidolon" to me either.  Just a bunch of disjointed abilities from other frames (namely Nyx & Hydroid) crammed into one kit with a somewhat interesting Ult that doesn't benefit from the rest of his abilities.  I really wouldn't want that to happen with Protea.

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3 minutes ago, Gamefreak106 said:

Agreed.  A lot of Revenant's kit didn't really scream "Eidolon" to me either.  Just a bunch of disjointed abilities from other frames (namely Nyx & Hydroid) crammed into one kit with a somewhat interesting Ult that doesn't benefit from the rest of his abilities.  I really wouldn't want that to happen with Protea.

I want them to fix revenant

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From what I saw of her I don`t think she a big deal. firstly, she has the same visual design as Gara which I don't like (her helmet is ugly) and her 2, 3 and 4th abilities are all stationary which I also don`t like Imo most warframe abilities have to have abilities that are mobile since it a fast passed game. Her 2 is a copy of wisp`s 1st, her 3 didn't last long and her 4 (from what I can see) can only be used in def and mobile def related missions. I hope that DE improve these abilities drastically. 

Since ppl are talking about revenant I have put up a post giving ideas on what reworks, revisits and QOLs I would give to all warframes, if you`re interested click the link.

 

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While I agree that her current 4 does not really fit the theme, I'm not sure if your suggested new 4 ability would work either. It's a great ability mind you, but it sounds like something for a racer themed warframe (also, would be hard to drive in tight spaces).

They DEFINITELY should save this ability for another frame, but I'm not sure what her new 4 should be. 

Would be nice if she had an ability to use her night goggles to activate wall hacks and gain infinite punch through for her abilities and guns. 

Still hoping for the best. Like her design, but I feel she needs more gadgets to throw out.

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51 minutes ago, Nesodos said:

Don't you always complain that Revenants kit is just a bunch of random ideas lumped together?

How come you like this one with a very out of character ult?

Because Revenant is a poorly designed mess that’s a result of shoving a theme where it doesn’t belong. We don’t know anything about Protea yet. So complaining that the rewind is “out of theme” at this time is a bit ridiculous.

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5 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Because Revenant is a poorly designed mess that’s a result of shoving a theme where it doesn’t belong. We don’t know anything about Protea yet. So complaining that the rewind is “out of theme” at this time is a bit ridiculous.

While I am 100% with you on revenant, the rewind ability for protea never sat well with me since it doesn't fit in the theme given to her. I would much prefer if she was given more gadget abilities to throw out.

Save the rewind for a time frame. 

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4 minutes ago, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

While I am 100% with you on revenant, the rewind ability for protea never sat well with me since it doesn't fit in the theme given to her. I would much prefer if she was given more gadget abilities to throw out.

Save the rewind for a time frame. 

What if the time rewind if from a gadget?

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Still waiting to see her actual gameplay.

The Temporal Anchor has potential to mingle with the effects of her other gadgets and maybe buffs on Protea from other Warframes. We'll see how far Pablo is willing to take the concept.

Let's say she picked up an energy bubble from her 1's trench. If the bubble popped from damage while Protea has her 4 in use, it reappears after she rewinds to protect her again.

She deploys her cannon 2 times during her 4, they run their course and disappear, then Protea rewinds, so do the two cannons reappearing at their time stamps, blasting their laser beams for a second time during her reverse animations. 

Protea plops down all three of her 3's dispensaries during her 4. Their durations tick down but not yet expire, after her rewind they go back to the durations at those time stamps.

Protea gets downed while using her 4. She auto-rewinds to prevent her death and the ability goes on a short cooldown.

And of course a way to cancel or rewind by pressing the ability key again for extra control.

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29 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

What if the time rewind if from a gadget?

LOL Walked right into that one huh? 

Also, I was think of adding gadgets like her night goggles that can add wall hacks and infinite punch through for her abilities and guns

Or maybe a sniper mode for her 2nd ability that uses both barrels to fire a high powered shot that hits one enemy and bounces off to another (like a laser bouncing off mirrors)

Heck, how about an electric blast from her 3rd which she can send out to a group of enemies and deal higher damage depending on armor or shield amount.

Gadgets like those would be interesting to add to her kit in my opinion. 

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