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Nova's 282 percent duration stats are off


(PSN)d1771Hd
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I'll keep this as brief as I can. 

 

Right now, Nova Prime with 282% duration gets 80% damage reduction from having 16 particles from her Null Star ability. That *16* is actually 16.92 and should be rounded up to 17 imo (It's calculated from her Molecular Prime duration in seconds since number of particles is based on duration). Idk if there are other instances of this where stats within .08 are not rounded up, but this one bugs me. Here's why:

282% duration is a fairly median amount for a nova build. That means, for duration, you're running maxed Narrow Minded (+99%), Primed Continuity (+55%), and Constitution (+28%). Again, equalling 16 particles and 80% dmg reduction.

A lot of builds run Auger Message (+24%) for that max duration of 306%, giving you 90% damage reduction.

On the other hand, I personally run 254% duration (I enjoy running 3 augments on my slova), but that drops me down to 75% damage reduction.

 

Neither mod         +0% duration =  254%  total =  15 particles (15.24s) = 75% dmg reduction

Constitution         +28% duration = 282% total =  16 particles (16.92s) = 80% dmg reduction (should be 85%)

Auger Message   +24% duration =  306% total =  18 particles (18.36s) = 90% dmg reduction

 

My issue here is, Auger Message with it's +24% duration, adds twice as much damage reduction (+10%), than constitution with it's +28% duration (+5%)

I'm aware this only occurs when stacking all of the duration mods and not when using Auger Message in place of Constitution, and maybe adding both mods is intended to make adding that final mod add 10% instead of 5%, but hopefully my point is clear at least. That missing 5% damage reduction is enough that I typically don't run 282% duration anymore because I know a .08 difference is causing an important 5% stat difference. Nova is tanky enough as it is, so it's not a big deal, but imagine being aware of a similar -5% discrepancy in rhino's total armor number. While it doesn't make a huge difference, being aware of that would probably bug you all the same. Maybe it wouldn't bother all of you, but I felt the need to share this regardless.

Thank you for reading.

 

(Please fix escape velocity's speed trail showing wrong energy color (defaulted to yellow) when playing as client. And wormhole not being reliable on jupiter or sentient tile sets

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I don't think it's rounded, I think it's just an absolute threshold you need to meet for each star. And I don't think there was any design intent behind ... well, much of anything to do with Nova's scaling, to be honest. = / I've certainly noticed the issue and only ever use Constitution if I'm going to use Augur Message and devote two slots to the difference. My current build for Nova is a squishy but fun one with just the 75% DR, three augments on, and only Quick Thinking for survivability otherwise.

There are other cases like this, like magazine capacity on small magazines in rifles, where one mod does nothing but two will bring it over the threshold. 

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The real question is, why does particle number is affected by duration instead of strength ?

It make more sense to have this number affected by strength a bit like Baruuk's daggers, since it's not really related to range or duration and provide a damage reduction buff that is always increased by strength on other powers (Mirage's Eclise or Nekro's Shield of Shadows, for example).

Also, Nova already greatly benefit from duration on all her kit and need as much a possible on Molecular Prime, so moving it this to strength would encourage more build diversity on her.

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Well right now she needs nearly 300% duration and sub-100% range for effective DR. The logic behind Null Star's duration scaling is based on its original intended purpose, that stars are consumed by smacking nearby enemies and also incidentally provide some small DR. It wasn't intended as the now-standard 90% DR ability it's used as now. So duration was scaling how many of these attacks you had floating around you, I.e. how long the effect lasted. 

Meanwhile Molecular Prime's range scales with duration (like Polarize and Pillage) on the logic that it's a wave with a static speed and a scalable lifespan.

So coincidentally, her two currently viable abilities scale with the same stat. That's why she's presently viable at all. If she was completely reworked to scale from different stats, she'd likely have 75% or 80% DR by default with her 1. 

What she has right now isn't build diversity - you either build for duration for Null Star and Molecular Prime with Molecular Fission and sometimes Neutron Star, or you build for speed and portal range with Escape Velocity. Past that you twiddle with details like whether to build for 90% DR or do 75% to fit in a Streamline or something.

Edited by CopperBezel
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2 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

The real question is, why does particle number is affected by duration instead of strength ?

Well ...

7 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

Nova already greatly benefit from duration on all her kit and need as much a possible on Molecular Prime

... there you go?

Nova is a Frame where boosting Duration helps in a multitude of ways.

That's a good thing.

8 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

moving it this to strength would encourage more build diversity

Having to balance more stats would just make her weaker overall.

Nova already has options for different builds - there's the Speedva bug-turned-feature,
you can make her a mobility goddess on the Plains / Vallis,
the Anti-Matter Absorb Augment opens yet another playstyle (mobile shield / nuke combo), ...

Please, pretty please, could you not try to ruin stuff that's working more than fine. Thank you and you're welcome.

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I honestly don't have any ideas that would ever actually happen. I definitely don't want any kind of nova rework. I guess adding 1% to any of the duration mods other than auger message would do it but I'm sure that would mess up something else. Maybe giving nova a decimal level bump to whatever multiplier determines total ability duration? 

Maybe they can just round it up to 17 particles for me and not tell anyone so they don't have to go fix every single case of this. Just fix the ones where players ask nicely. 🙂

Edited by (PS4)slova77
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I really do just want her to get a modernized rework. Scale strength with strength and range with range, make Null Star work and build sensibly as a DR ability, and likely nerf the overall range of Molecular Prime while making this extreme duration build unnecessary and giving you space to build for range and efficiency to make up for it. Her weirdness isn't necessary or helpful, and the fact that the range of her MP and Wormhole work against one another is one of the places she suffers for it. And she has three good augments and that's more than most, but Neutron Star is the bandaidest of bandaids and it sure would be nice to take the opportunity to roll that into her base Null Star. 

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4 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

I really do just want her to get a modernized rework. Scale strength with strength and range with range, make Null Star work and build sensibly as a DR ability, and likely nerf the overall range of Molecular Prime

Yeah, let's nerf her main ability and screw with how you need to mod her, that's "modern" ... wat

4 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

giving you space to build for range and efficiency to make up for it

Just because your build is short on Mod slots what with using friggin' three Augments,
doesn't mean you can't have some other Mods in their place, seriously, come on now.

4 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

Neutron Star is the bandaidest of bandaids and it sure would be nice to take the opportunity to roll that into her base Null Star

Sure, make it easier for her to keep her DR up, no issues with that.
(Mind, use her 4 Augment - plus low Range - and that's already happening well enough, in my experience.)

4 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

Her weirdness isn't necessary or helpful

As I said above, high Duration being something she benefits from in multiple ways, that's a good thing.

And not sure what you mean by "helpful" - the ability to either slow down or speed up enemies, do you mean that's not a useful quirk of hers?

4 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

Wormhole

Meh, that ability is niche anyway, what with Bullet Jump / Void Dash / free Archwing usage in Free Roam.

Maybe allow placing entry and then exit portals freely, with infinite range both for the distance and the casting range.
That'd surely be of use on the Plains / Vallis, and for Squad mobility e.g. during Spy / Cache hunting / Excavation / whatnot.

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8 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

And not sure what you mean by "helpful" - the ability to either slow down or speed up enemies, do you mean that's not a useful quirk of hers?

The bug that caused her to speed up enemies should have been fixed instead of preserved as a feature, yeah. 

8 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

Yeah, let's nerf her main ability and screw with how you need to mod her, that's "modern" ... wat

How you need to mod her doesn't make any sense and isn't consistent with how other frames build now. The biggest offender is Null Star for the reasons I've already explained, that the base ability doesn't know what kind of ability it is.

I'd nerf her main ability to require her to be a bit more active in casting. Right now both the range of the effect and its duration scale off the same number and that's what allows her to shut down the map for a minute and a half or whatnot. I think I'd also buff MP's base slow to 50% and have it multiply normally with the same cap at 75% slow, so 150% strength would be 75% slow. 

MP isn't just her "main" ability - for her most viable build it's the only thing she does, and there's exactly one optimal way to build for it. 

8 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

Meh, that ability is niche anyway, what with Bullet Jump / Void Dash / free Archwing usage in Free Roam.

It is, but it hardly needs to be penalized further by making it unjustifiable to build for. 

8 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

As I said above, high Duration being something she benefits from in multiple ways, that's a good thing.

To a certain extent, if she built normally it'd just be range instead of duration, with a similar threshold to meet for strength. Particularly if Antimatter Drop could scale with range as well, and Null Star's decay just had a tiny radius that didn't scale. But you'd still have the duration of MP's effect to consider. And while we're at it, Antimatter Drop's multiplier could scale with strength, so that something would continue to scale past 150% strength if you decided to build her that way instead. 

8 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

Sure, make it easier for her to keep her DR up, no issues with that.
(Mind, use her 4 Augment - plus low Range - and that's already happening well enough, in my experience.)

I've played her more with Molecular Fission as my only augment than otherwise. It still leads to that situation once in a while where you end up with three stars left and are definitely going to die before you can build them back up, which is just incredibly awkward to play around, especially knowing you could jump out of bounds and reset it. 

8 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

Just because your build is short on Mod slots what with using friggin' three Augments,
doesn't mean you can't have some other Mods in their place, seriously, come on now.

One of them's replacing Rush in the exilus slot and I'm only using two duration mods instead of the usual four to get to her DR cap, so. Shrug If her abilities built normally, you'd be able to trade off between their strength, range, and duration, as well as your survivability mods etc., like other frames. 

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As a point, there is actually a lot of rounding in Warframe's calculation methods for things.

The general way to think about it is that when it's something you're increasing, such as duration, they round down. If the maths shows that you have something that should last 41.8 Seconds (or close to 42), the display will only ever show 41 seconds.

If it's something you're decreasing, like the energy cost of an ability or damage reduction, they tend to round up (well, the calculation is rounded down, the result is that negatives are less negative so a little more positive, or rounded up). So when you're looking at reducing your damage taken, and damage would go below 1 Health point, it rounds it to 1 Health point instead, because the enemy will only ever deal 0 damage to you when you're functionally invulnerable. Or when you use Streamline on a cost of 75, the actual cost is 52.5, except the game won't let you cast that with 52 energy, you have to have 53, for obvious reasons as you can only have whole numbers of energy.

So with Nova, the current Duration calculation will, naturally, round down. You don't have enough Duration to qualify for that 17th orb, so you can't have it.

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