Mach rush problems, from a gauss main perspective

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 hour ago, Kareekoe said:

In controlled tests you will see that volt is faster, but in actual missions and in practice there are multiple issues that Volt has that will end up screwing him over and making him worse than Gauss.

In-mission in-practice comparisons between Volt and Gauss:

Volt 1. Volt constantly gets 1 shotted by stuff that just simply looks at him angrily. (typically happens after mid-game)

Gauss 1. Gauss's ability Kit makes him a tanky beast.

Volt 2. if you have a Gauss in your game, your speed buff will buff the Gauss, there for, making you leagues slower than the Gauss.

Gauss 2. if you're the Gauss, you will use that buff volt gave you and have fun with it while you then wait at extraction for 20 seconds or more for the Volt and others to get to meet you at the extraction while playing around on your shawzin.

Volt 3. if enemies get in your way, they will block your movement, making it easier for enemies to kill you by slapping you with a melee.

Gauss 3. I CAME IN LIKE A WRECKING BALL, lol, zoom! out of my way XD, in other words, enemies can't block you as Gauss if you use either the dash or the rush, you physically move enemies out of your way, it becomes impossible for enemies to hit you with cheap melee's after trapping you with their bodies because they simply can't.

Volt 4. Volt is prone to being knocked down, you can get knock down immunity with primed sure footed but that would be at the extent of removing one of the mods you need to have equipped to be faster than Gauss.

Gauss 4. Gauss can just dash through the knockdowns with the dash part of his ability and i think the rush too, he has knockdown immunity while his dash is being used and casted, so knockdowns will be very limited as the only time it can happen will be the limited time windows between each casting.

Volt 5. Volt has no damage resistance ability.

Gauss. 5 Kinetic plating + Red Line Synergy.

Volt 6. 6+ forma minmaxing non-sense, constant polarity conflicts which will force you to build another volt if you want to make other builds in a way that won't suck, Example: the inability to make good Discharge/Eidolon hunt builds

Gauss 6. 1 forma and you're basically good, not a minmaxing dump, will work with other builds easily.

Volt 7. Volt's ability duration might actually be at or close to base duration due to getting almost max strength and you will likely also have negative efficiency due to blind rage being practically required on volt speed build, meaning that it ends up being more energy intensive.

Gauss 7. Gauss loves ability duration and efficiency, does not use strength to make him faster, only sprint speed alone makes him faster, due to being able to comfortably equip both duration and efficiency with literally 0 problems at all, his energy demands are very tiny and limited in comparison, that and having Red Line up will half the energy consumption of Mach Rush and it's dash, meaning that your energy demands are even lower.

Volt 8. As stated in "Volt 1." he is extremely squishy, making him unplayable in most missions after mid game, especially sorties, and don't even try on rail jack, he dies on early rail jack pretty hilariously due to how hard hitting the enemies in rail jack are by default.

Gauss 8. Can basically play anything, as stated in "Gauss 1." he is a tanky beast, meaning that he can play pretty much everything late and end game, Sorties and Rail jack Veil are no problem for Gauss.

Volt 9. Energy reduction missions are a big fat pain for volt.

Gauss 9. Energy reduction missions are not a problem what so ever.

Volt 10. Nullifiers are scary for volt, you can more often find times where you are too low on energy to cast it back up immediately due to how much energy each cast will take (with 45% ability efficiency due to having blind rage on)

Gauss 10. Nullifiers are a minor inconvenience bulk majority of the time it goes like this,"oops, i accidentally touched a Nullifier, well it's a good thing i still have like 100+ energy from how little i'm consuming"  *shrugs* (175% ability efficiency)

Volt 11. lack of kit use flexibility, he is full on reliant on his speed ability, the rest of his kit is basically useless to him.

Gauss 11. great flexibility, can and will actively cast and use his 1, 2, and 4, only his 3 is not useful to his speed build.

Volt 12. Volt Suffers from not only from Acceleration but some pretty annoying momentum that is hard to combat and control.

Gauss 12. Gauss is full speed almost instantly and can easily combat and deal with the momentum he has through use of the Dash part of his Mach Rush, instantly changing direction and canceling out his previously gained momentum and his Dash adds a very limited amount of momentum making it very easy to control after coming out of his dash.

 

Don't forget

Gauss can use his speed in combat like a true speedster 

Dash in do your damage then dash to the next enemy 

Volt can't do that and feels much slower

Gauss is faster than volt in combat 

[Kareekoe]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Don't forget

Gauss can use his speed in combat like a true speedster 

Dash in do your damage then dash to the next enemy 

Volt can't do that and feels much slower

Gauss is faster than volt in combat 

oh yea, i actually forgot about that one, i do it all the time, zoom! blap acceltra on enemies, everything is dead, zoom zoom zoom, next set of enemies, splat acceltra again, and repeat, so fast lol, 

there are quite a few times where i was actually faster at clearing a fissure extermination than a nuke frame by doing that, all the shots just have to have to land and hit everything and swap targets fast as you can, then zoom to next enemies before the nuke frame arrives XD, and next thing you know you have top kill count.

[.A.G]

This is so amusing @Kareekoe I won't even go over your list one item at a time, it's clear you have no idea how to play Volt haha

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, Kareekoe said:

-snip-

almost none of that had anything to do with the speed of one Warframe vs the other.

Edited February 18, 2020 by taiiat

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

32 minutes ago, taiiat said:

almost none of that had anything to do with the speed of one Warframe vs the other.

He's saying gauss does a better job at being a speedster than volt in everyday missions

Which was the intended design choice for him

To be honest like i said i don't care which is faster in maximized race 

I will always be faster than 90% of volts out there with a basic gauss build that uses speed mods 

And i am still able to slot a decent build as well

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk

[Kareekoe]

1 hour ago, .A.G said:

This is so amusing @Kareekoe I won't even go over your list one item at a time, it's clear you have no idea how to play Volt haha

The only thing i can say to that is asking you to make a list of things about Volt that Volt does better Vs Gauss, that that is the most valuable and informative choice you could make when forming a response, I would much prefer that as it will help other players know the advantages/disadvantages and what to expect from Volt and how to use Volt.

Thank you.

42 minutes ago, taiiat said:

almost none of that had anything to do with the speed of one Warframe vs the other.

I'm talking about speed in practice, in mission, not in a controlled environment, the Effective Speed of a Warframe, controlled environments can only give so much data when it comes to studies in general, the Effective Speed of the Warframes can only be determined through the usage of them in actual missions.

There are too many situations and issues that both Warframes face that will prevent them from using their Top Speed and reduce them down to an Effective speed, a speed they end up actually going due to the many obstacles in their way, this counts all obstacles including human error and the learning process.

The only place you can use their Top Speed and achieve their Top Speed as their actual Effective Speed is in open world, which the open world in itself is the controlled environment, therefore it doesn't count towards the determination of Effective Speed.

All of this combined you will get:

Warframe Average Effective Speed: The speed at which the average person in the community can expect to achieve when using this Warframe in missions.

Warframe Top Effective Speed: The Closest to Top Speed that the most experienced and fastest players have achieved when using this Warframe in missions.

Warframe Personal Effective Speed: The Fastest Effective speed you can achieve personally when using this Warframe in missions.

Warframe Effective Speed Improvement Rate: The average expected rate at which players improve their Effective Speed to get closer to the Top Effective Speed when using this Warframe in missions.

Warframe Theoretical Effective Speed: The Effective Speed that people think could be done theoretically if everything is done perfectly and masterfully when using this Warframe in missions.

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by Kareekoe

[taiiat]

31 minutes ago, Kareekoe said:

I'm talking about speed in practice

most of what was written had literally nothing to do with Movement Speed.

[X_Bo]

as much as i love gauss (i also don't really play volt) he has issues and he's not a team fighter as to where volt is and he's used in many situations. gauss is not.

1. gauss can still be one shotted by other elements even though they're not as common as ips-heat cold and blast

2.you need to separate the frames. obviously if you buff another frame they will be altered to an extent... rhino can't heal but he can give others damage but if he teams up with wisp they can help each other this is called synergy.

3. you can slide attack through enemies last i checked.

4. just because someone can or can't be knocked down is doesn't mean they're less effective. i.e. atlas (not bad but just because his passive makes him immune to knockdown doesn't make him a god)

5.volts shield reduces damage.

6."basically" good doesn't mean anything. volt is used for eidolons (sometimes he can solo) he's also used for profit taker and he can take down both with efficiency. gauss can't do either.

7. im not quite sure what to say... volt has a few ways to be built. gauss has 2 maybe 3 if you go for a ranged focus for ice clap cc/blast damage which can be very effective in pretty much anything under 100 or you do the normal duration build or you can go for a faux "tank".

8. both are squishy under the right circumstances. played gauss against infested in an arbi mission and got one shot by the toxin aura.

9.energy reduction is an issue with all frames except hildryn. again you need to build to fit the occasion.

10.nulls suck for about... 90% of the warframes but you have guns ... shoot the bubble or the thing at the top...

11. lmfao im not going into that... "useless without speed buff" you've never done eidolons or profit taker or eso or any defense for that matter.

12. gauss has the same issue if you go fast enough all your rush can really do is greet walls with your face which isn't truly a downside since he gets a little aoe for knockdown which in most cases for me is just long enough to melee down an enemy or two.

volt and gauss should not be compared in any way shape or form... gauss is a speedster volt is a shock mage. gauss and zephyr are more related his 2 kind of works like her 3 since all projectiles have a chance to miss her which is kind of like taking less damage but she still gets blasted by the elements. (also both die from shock bombs lol)

all frames have a use... find their use... im not a fan of volt and i find gauss to be incredibly fun but saying he is a better "runner" frame than volt is like saying trinity is better at healing than loki. do not compare the two they each have their own uses. you're not supposed to go about only using the normal sprint function you're supposed to use the slide roll bullet jump combo that i and others have stated before.

Edited February 18, 2020 by X_Bo
changed a sentence

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

7 hours ago, X_Bo said:

gauss can't do either

I solo profit taker and exploiter with gauss 

SOLO 

He's a monster at profit taker...increasing imperator vandal's damage per second 

Mitigating huge damage from rockets, something volt cant do 

And speeding in and out of danger  catching up with emp missile thingies 

 

This is just a big indicator that you know nothing about gauss

[BloodyEy3]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Hopper_Orouk:

This is just a big indicator that you know nothing about gauss

you just love that sentence 😄 stop putting urself as the gauss whisperer thats the only 1 who knows how to play him. Playstyle can be different while still using sth correctly 🙂

also if u have such a exclusive opinion on a warframe its probably not a wise idea to speak it out loud --> i quickly read through this thread and there is 0 progresssion. just alonger arguement for who is the fastest

You didnt add anyhting after ur intial statement. how about ud even start with how u play, what do u do that u understand gauss so well ? some hidden mechanics you abuse ? people need some baseline understanding as to why "they dont know anything about guass" and from that baseline you can then go on to talk about what could be better with mach rush.

too much vision blurr on 1 ? understandable (could be toned down)

rest of the thing you ask for is base stats (casting speed, movement speed), could be but why not some abilityfactor affecting it ?

been awhile since i played zephyr but i think her 1 works somehwat that way, give it sth similar so if u wanna go faster you just have to give up on sth else (i dont think thats a problem as most warframes kinda tend to be like that)

i still dont know why gauss scales only with duration (gives higher stats and longer duration on 4) just seems weird and it doesnt even has a downside (for example like harrow 4) 2gets to 100% dmg reduction either way

edit: its downside seems to be it takes longer to reach max battery (only the unlocked part from 4) with redline (always 1/3 of the duration --> atleast what wiki has to say to this)

 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by BloodyEy3
edit:

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

20 minutes ago, BloodyEy3 said:

you just love that sentence 😄 stop putting urself as the gauss whisperer thats the only 1 who knows how to play him. Playstyle can be different while still using sth correctly 🙂

Well usually because most people build gauss like how they build any other warframe 

You'dbe surprised if i told you that my gauss build uses all sprint speed mods and yet i still have room for enough efficiency, range and duration to make a powerful build for every content while also having a room for an option slot when he get an augment 

 

People usually build him to be as tanky as possible, you build the speed warframe for speed, without speed he doesn't feel right 

22 minutes ago, BloodyEy3 said:

You didnt add anyhting after ur intial statement. how about ud even start with how u play, what do u do that u understand gauss so well

I know a few things...like how to effectively kill high level enemies with just his 3, an ability that many people refer to as his worst 

 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

33 minutes ago, BloodyEy3 said:

you just love that sentence 😄 stop putting urself as the gauss whisperer thats the only 1 who knows how to play him. Playstyle can be different while still using sth correctly 🙂

Also sorry about that 

I just see a lot of people hating on this great warframe 

Mostly people that do not know how to build him and just build for a tank build and that's it

[BloodyEy3]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Hopper_Orouk:

People usually build him to be as tanky as possible, you build the speed warframe for speed, without speed he doesn't feel right 

i build him: narrowminded + primed continuouty, speed drift, streamline, adaption, umbra intensify, umbra vitality, X (often more duration) exilus: rush aura: corrosive porjection (like its usefullness way over sprint seed augment). 

maybe the umbra intensify is useless, i just liked the initial higher dmg reduction you get form his 2 (i expect it scales linearly to 100% aswell, so it reaches 100% dmg metigation before full battery)

Arcanes i tried multiple things: mainly i go with arcane energize r3 + arcane strike r3. but i play gauss mainly as melee bersker that dashes from target to target.

vor 22 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Hopper_Orouk:

kill high level enemies with just his 3

whats high lvl  ? unless you invest heavly in strength i dont see it kill an enemy above lvl 60 (only thing i know useing 3 heat then 3 cold makes it deal more dmg (as heat status reduces 50% armor over its duration, or up to 50%? no idea but sth like that)

[X_Bo]

ive never seen a gauss solo profit taker also many frames can solo exploiter so idc about that lol, saying i know nothing makes me giggle though, and if you can solo that then great. im not talking poorly of gauss but you completely avoided every other point i made.

Edited February 19, 2020 by X_Bo

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

4 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

whats high lvl  ? unless you invest heavly in strength i dont see it kill an enemy above lvl 60 (only thing i know useing 3 heat then 3 cold makes it deal more dmg (as heat status reduces 50% armor over its duration, or up to 50%? no idea but sth like that)

Bro i killed level 165 with just thermal sunder with 100% strength 

That's what i meant, people don't know how to use him

Thermal sunder is not your standard damage ability...it scales to tremendous levels people can't even realise it

 

And redline makes thermal sunder strip 100% of armor not 50% ...

Edited February 19, 2020 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

16 minutes ago, X_Bo said:

ive never seen a gauss solo profit taker also many frames can solo exploiter so idc about that lol, saying i know nothing makes me giggle though, and if you can solo that then great. im not talking poorly of gauss but you completely avoided every other point i made.

I did 

Multiple times

It's quite fun actually 

 

And i avoided the rest of the points Because most points you made were somewhat valid so i didn't need to talk about them

For example, Yes he does get one shot with other elemental damage like electricity 

Edited February 19, 2020 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk

[Mu_Gera]

How about speed increases with battery level or distance ran. Or maybe each enemy hit increases speed in a way.

Speaking of which, mach rush still not damaging enemies on direct collisions seems like the next glaring issue, I know thermal sunder adds contact damage but that's a bandaid. I still expect to damage enemies as you run over them as an innate feature instead of knocking them away softly.

[MikeDiamondz]

talking about friction in this topic pls help, do enyone have this type friction scheme without mod or, this is a bug. pls help .

 

[(PSN)TrickyPit5]

On 2020-02-18 at 5:38 PM, X_Bo said:

8. both are squishy under the right circumstances. played gauss against infested in an arbi mission and got one shot by the toxin aura.

Correct me if I'm wrong but won't anything get oneshot by toxin ancients at the level or higher unless their outright invincible? Just curious as I'm a newer player

[Lutesque]

On 2020-02-17 at 2:08 AM, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

The more i use mach rush the more i realise how slow it is...

Pretty Much... It's just like Gears,Of War's Roadie Run... They use Fancy Camera trickery to make it look fast...even though it's only 1.5X faster 😝

3 hours ago, (PSN)TrickyPit5 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but won't anything get oneshot by toxin ancients at the level or higher unless their outright invincible? Just curious as I'm a newer player

Well... Yes...but @X_Bo didn't mention what level the enemies were so yeah.... You can build Gauss and find out for yourself and for Me since I'm curious too.