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(NSW)Sniperfox47

Why are Grineer Crewships so much stronger than the Railjack?

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4小时前 , (NSW)Sniperfox47 说:

Again, definitely not the case on switch. Doesn't matter where you aim, it does not destroy crewships. I've been trying this literally since Railjack launched (edit: since it launched on Switch, to be clear).

you are not on the newest version then. in PC you actually deals more damage by shooting the engine, so you can one shot veil proxima crewships

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2 hours ago, Diangelius said:

I want to know your avionics build.

Are you going full tank ? How long does it take you, in average, to finish 1 veil node ?

Depends how many randies join. Usually about 10 minutes, but it can vary depending on whether or not flux energy drops. I try not to craft it in mission because it can just drop

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Play Railjack on Switch, handheld. I am able to one shot Crew ships with my railjacks forward artillery. Aim for the engines. It will take a few moments before they blow, but it does work.

I am just getting in the Veil, so I don't have a fully modded railjack yet.

In the beginning your railjack feels like you're flying an oil tanker in a battle against agile speed boats. With time though you can mod your jack to the point you can drift circles around crewships  

There is some good advice in this thread on how to handle crewships. Might be time to head into the drydock and spends some dirac and look at how you have modded your ship.

Just want to add that Railjack is buggy. More so on Switch I guess given the limitations of the system. Last night I joined a crew at Gian's point. And spent a few minutes running around in space in spoiler mode shooting fighters with my amp of all things. But this old gamer is still impressed that we can play a game like this, on a hand held system on wifi of all things and it still works.

Hang in there Tenno. It is doable and fun.

 

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I'll ask the real question: will we ever be able to build our own gigantic heavy battleship and obliterate  our foes with an overpowered Wave Motion Gun?

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We built a Railjack from junk found around the system.  Grineer have been producing Crewships (or buying them) for years, they likely have better quality control measures in place. 🙂

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8 hours ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

I just don't understand why from a lore standpoint we wouldn't pick the Grineer Crewship as a base when they're *so much* better than the base railjack. A modded crewship with intrinsics applied would be so much more effective than a railjack with the same mods and intrinsics applied.

I think this is a case of gameplay trumping lore. Lore wise a railjack is at minimum comparable to a crewship and probably superior. To create the desired gameplay we instead get the current situation. For example we manually handle hazards like decompression to enhance our playtime. They give us stuff to do and challenges to overcome. Lorewise crewships definitely suffer from this stuff but npc's don't need interesting gameplay so it can be represented with a depleteing hp bar. I suspect there are multiple reasons these hazards are ignored when a player commandeers a crewship. It it probably be extra work to have this code apply to them. The gameplay focus has shifted from resource managment to pewpewing. The stolen crewship is a disposable resource unfit for micro managing.

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Crewships are sloooooow, clumsy, have a big wad of HP and armour but have poor direct damage output. They’re nothing but targets that can take a lot of pounding.

 

By contrast, an upgraded Railjack is several times faster, almost infinitely more agile, has better armaments, has access to ramming fields, cloaking tech, area disruptors, and while the Railjack is comparatively more fragile, it can continue to fight even while critically damaged.

 

The answer to the question “Why are crewships stronger than Railjacks?” is “They’re not.”

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28 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Crewships are sloooooow, clumsy, have a big wad of HP and armour but have poor direct damage output. They’re nothing but targets that can take a lot of pounding.

 

By contrast, an upgraded Railjack is several times faster, almost infinitely more agile, has better armaments, has access to ramming fields, cloaking tech, area disruptors, and while the Railjack is comparatively more fragile, it can continue to fight even while critically damaged.

 

The answer to the question “Why are crewships stronger than Railjacks?” is “They’re not.”

In other words:

Crewships are tortoises.

Railjacks are golden eagles.

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My biggest criticism of railjack is that for a game that is near infinite in diversity, in loadout and play style (42 frames + Umbra + primed versions, and I can eve begin to guess the amount of different weapons. Then we also have companions, and then there's modding it all), the railjack and the related piece of the game is very linear, cookie cutter, and forces you to play a certain way. I mean yes you can mod it, but the railjack is only a single design, style, setup, etc.

I for one am someone who has always been an adaptive player of games, see a situation from multiple perspectives and adjust accordingly, but at the same also being able finding what works best for me and then take that to it's limit, regardless of whether people say it won't work, and I have made a real habit of being successful in making it actually be good. That's one of the reason why I keep coming back to warframe is because this game allows me to do both of those things in abundance and pushing those boundaries.

With railjack thus far I don't feel like it has followed that same theme, and in fact is contradictive to it.

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The crewship heal himself even without a crew onboard

Why are we using crappy orokin tech when we can just flight with Grineer crewship?

 

 

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Been thinking about the OP's question and the answer is just, "it's high-level Grineer. They have more armor than us, more health than us, and can rip the crap out of us. It's just how they roll." 

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15 hours ago, Diangelius said:

You choose to solo Empyrean and you must accept the difficulties (at least for now until DE change something). You are trying to multitask, which in Empyrean's design, you cannot, and are not supposed to.

I agree with everything you said pretty much except what I bolded above.

 

First off you definitely can multitask Empyrean and secondly if you were not supposed to be able to then they would have programmed it in a way you couldn't.

It certainly isn't impossible it is just more difficult. People keep spouting that warframe is a co-op game as if being such dismisses the fact they design the missions to allow for solo or co-op play.

If they didn't want us to be able to solo and wanted us to co-op only like people seem to believe then DE would simply program the missions to where you weren't able to enter them solo and the solo option would be removed from your group options. (Public, Friends Only, Invite Only, Solo)

^Nuff said.

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16 hours ago, Diangelius said:

You need teammates (not your case and I understand why) and with a team who know clearly what to do, not really pro, the RJ is basically immortal and all tasks would be finished in 10 minutes even on Flexa - Veil.

You choose to solo Empyrean and you must accept the difficulties (at least for now until DE change something). You are trying to multitask, which in Empyrean's design, you cannot, and are not supposed to.

I understand where you're coming from, but on switch soloing railjack is hardly a "choice" on Switch x'D There's nobody in pubs unless you're trying to do the first couple missions on earth, and by 8 or 9 pm even those missions are empty x'D

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6 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Crewships are sloooooow, clumsy, have a big wad of HP and armour but have poor direct damage output. They’re nothing but targets that can take a lot of pounding.

 

By contrast, an upgraded Railjack is several times faster, almost infinitely more agile, has better armaments, has access to ramming fields, cloaking tech, area disruptors, and while the Railjack is comparatively more fragile, it can continue to fight even while critically damaged.

 

The answer to the question “Why are crewships stronger than Railjacks?” is “They’re not.”

Key words here... an *upgraded* railjack.

 

There's no reason why couldn't upgrade a crewship in the same way. Lvl 1 Crewship with MK3 shields, reactor, and engines, with the guns replaced with MK3 versions and the entire rig modded out with dirac would be a straight upgrade over the railjack, and a fairly massive one at that.

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Because DE does not know how to balance damage and difficulty other than making enemies hulked bullet sponges. 

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7 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Because DE does not know how to balance damage and difficulty other than making enemies hulked bullet sponges. 

^That.

Oh and the hulked damage sponges also need to deal damage that would even dent the uber-tanks like Inaros so they deal several times the amount of damage needed to kill the average frame that CAN'T stack thousands of eHP with just Steel Fiber and Vitality.

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48 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

I understand where you're coming from, but on switch soloing railjack is hardly a "choice" on Switch x'D There's nobody in pubs unless you're trying to do the first couple missions on earth, and by 8 or 9 pm even those missions are empty x'D

thats why railjack is only available in clans only duh!!

just ask clanmates.

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46 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Key words here... an *upgraded* railjack.

 

There's no reason why couldn't upgrade a crewship in the same way. Lvl 1 Crewship with MK3 shields, reactor, and engines, with the guns replaced with MK3 versions and the entire rig modded out with dirac would be a straight upgrade over the railjack, and a fairly massive one at that.

can a crewship summon a black hole? can it instantly repair itself from damage and fires in a instant with a press of a button? can it 360 degree maneuver at high speed? does it have a archwing slingshot? can it void jump like the railjack? is it cephalon compatible?

also btw the houses and wreckage cannot be applied to crewships due to there design from orokin tech not grineer disposable scrap 

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58 minutes ago, (NSW)Katsuro said:

can a crewship summon a black hole? can it instantly repair itself from damage and fires in a instant with a press of a button? can it 360 degree maneuver at high speed? does it have a archwing slingshot? can it void jump like the railjack? is it cephalon compatible?

also btw the houses and wreckage cannot be applied to crewships due to there design from orokin tech not grineer disposable scrap 

Can a Railjack do that? No. Avionics do that. And what would prevent you from jerry rigging those avionic to a crewship if you had a drydock.

If crewships can't use avionics why would they be carrying them?

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2 hours ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Key words here... an *upgraded* railjack.

 

There's no reason why couldn't upgrade a crewship in the same way. Lvl 1 Crewship with MK3 shields, reactor, and engines, with the guns replaced with MK3 versions and the entire rig modded out with dirac would be a straight upgrade over the railjack, and a fairly massive one at that.

“What if we took all the things that make Railjacks better than crewships, and put them on the crewships? That would make crewships better than Railjacks, why are crewships better than Railjacks?! 
   “On a related note, I feel it’s unbalanced how high level Grineer would be terrifyingly powerful if their weapons had Tenno mods on them. We shouldn’t use our own weapons, we should go to a high level Grineer mission and steal some level 200 Gorgons and Hinds and then install mods in those!”

 

Past a certain point, you gotta accept that gameplay =/= lore, and that mods dropping from enemies does not mean that enemies are literally carrying and using those technologies. Crewships are tough as hell but clunky and slow because that’s Grineer tech at work. No point getting worked up over hypotheticals.

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4 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

“What if we took all the things that make Railjacks better than crewships, and put them on the crewships? That would make crewships better than Railjacks, why are crewships better than Railjacks?! 
   “On a related note, I feel it’s unbalanced how high level Grineer would be terrifyingly powerful if their weapons had Tenno mods on them. We shouldn’t use our own weapons, we should go to a high level Grineer mission and steal some level 200 Gorgons and Hinds and then install mods in those!”

 

Past a certain point, you gotta accept that gameplay =/= lore, and that mods dropping from enemies does not mean that enemies are literally carrying and using those technologies. Crewships are tough as hell but clunky and slow because that’s Grineer tech at work. No point getting worked up over hypotheticals.

Except high level grineer are high level because they're more experienced and making better use of the mods that they carry. It has been explicitly stated in the lore multiple times that mods are used outside of tenno.

 

Lore wise, even as it applies to the gameplay, high level hinds are the same as low level hinds, just modded better.

 

The railjack is also clunky and slow as hell outside of those same mods that have already, lore wise, said to be applicable to other weapons and parts like shield generators and engines that could easily be hacked onto those crewships.

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This is a top-secret Railjack-class ship document representing the ship's armor capabilities:

Spoiler

73002c3f7c129e82c6580f2a22d10f08.jpg

 

I feel like one of the reasons it feels weird is the lack of more ship classes in the mode.

We could have such tiers of enemies:

  • Transport / Atmospheric ships (Bolkor, Firbolg)
  • Scouts / Patrol ships (Dargyns, Dregs, Zeplen traps)
  • Interceptors / Fighters (Cutter, Outrider, Taktis, Flak)
  • Corvettes / Frigates (Crewships)
  • Carriers / Capital ships (Galleon)
  • Fomorian-class ships

 

But for now it's just:

  • Interceptors / Fighters
  • Corvettes / Frigates (Crewships)
  • Capital ships (Galleon) - an environment object

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6 minutes ago, Thundervision said:

This is a top-secret Railjack-class ship document representing the ship's armor capabilities:

  Reveal hidden contents

73002c3f7c129e82c6580f2a22d10f08.jpg

 

I feel like one of the reasons it feels weird is the lack of more ship classes in the mode.

We could have such tiers of enemies:

  • Transport / Atmospheric ships (Bolkor, Firbolg)
  • Scouts / Patrol ships (Dargyns, Dregs, Zeplen traps)
  • Interceptors / Fighters (Cutter, Outrider, Taktis, Flak)
  • Corvettes / Frigates (Crewships)
  • Carriers / Capital ships (Galleon)
  • Fomorian-class ships

 

But for now it's just:

  • Interceptors / Fighters
  • Corvettes / Frigates (Crewships)
  • Capital ships (Galleon) - an environment object

You forgot Ship Destroyer - an environmental object

and the asteroid base - an environmental object

 

...oh wait...

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