[Warframe Critique] Hydroid : Pulling Apart Undertow's Mechanics and Spreading them to a New 2nd/4th

[Fives6]

I was wondering if there was anyone with an idea of him BECOMING a kraken or a semi water creature state with his 4, comboing with his puddle, and in this state his (changed) abilities would be somewhat altered, something like the newer system with ember or gauss, and to activate you would need to first meet certain requirements. I obviously didn't take too long to consider everything but its another possibility. I just want him to be more engaging and fun :3

[YagoXiten]

Hydroid needs Tentacle Swarm to stop being an inferior version of Tempest Barrage and he could use an actual passive. That's it. At least for major concerns, anyways. A few QoL tweaks would be nice, though.

[Buddhakingpen]

I've been a pretty hardcore hydroid player since they made his tempest barrage scale with range and his current state is the worst he's been in since release. 
I was able to justify him having no damage and inconsistent cc, because enemy alertness mechanics basically made it so that hydroid always had access to stealth melee damage. Then they took away that mechanic. Then they began adding enemies that could resist cc in droves. Now corrosive cant even fully strip armor, making undertow deal less damage lowering his combat use even more. On top of that.. now tempest barrage sends enemies flying every direction for no reason. Its looking bad for hydroid right now. 

 

Give tentacle swarm innate armor shred, and allow tentacles themselves to be hit and have that damage transfer to enemies caught by tentacles, have tempest barrage do damage comparable to vaubans turret, remove his ability to become the puddle, but allow him to place the puddle. Give it an enemy limit and a damage amplifier. It would work similar a combination of vaubans bastille and mags magnetize. Honestly i'm ok with his passive. It really made me fall in love with certain weapons i wouldnt have used otherwise, and if you have his 4 augment on it can kinda work as a battery. Where you get free stuff without spending any energy. 

[FoxFX]

On 2020-03-09 at 7:21 PM, YagoXiten said:

Hydroid needs Tentacle Swarm to stop being an inferior version of Tempest Barrage and he could use an actual passive. That's it. At least for major concerns, anyways. A few QoL tweaks would be nice, though.

Did the suggestions I have presented on Tentacle Swarm seem like something you would welcome?

[YagoXiten]

47 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

Did the suggestions I have presented on Tentacle Swarm seem like something you would welcome?

The only appealing things in the OP are the passive ideas, sorry. Everything else in the OP is very off the mark for improving him. I say that as sincere and constructive criticism, I'm not trying to be harsh or hostile here.

Tentacle Swarm is currently awful because it's redundant with and inferior to Tempest Barrage. Your suggestions don't make it less redundant, or stronger, or more fun.

[kapn655321]

I'll put this simply..

If he can't turn into a puddle.

Then it does not get my approval.

[TheGrimCorsair]

3 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

I'll put this simply..

If he can't turn into a puddle.

Then it does not get my approval.

Same.

[FoxFX]

7 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

I'll put this simply..

If he can't turn into a puddle.

Then it does not get my approval.

 

3 hours ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

Same.

 

Then did you not see the suggestion on his 2nd ability?

[kapn655321]

3 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

Then did you not see the suggestion on his 2nd ability?

I did, but are we talking about a Wukong Cloudwalker type duration, or an Undertow type duration?
It sounds like just letting the puddle move Way faster, which is currently very expensive.. and cloudwalker as an example may well be too short a standard for stealthing with Hydroid.

[FoxFX]

6 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

I did, but are we talking about a Wukong Cloudwalker type duration, or an Undertow type duration?
It sounds like just letting the puddle move Way faster, which is currently very expensive.. and cloudwalker as an example may well be too short a standard for stealthing with Hydroid.

In that regard it could be either. I used the Wukong Cloudwalker as an example of the free movement the ability could have (albeit on the floor like how Tidal Surge/Undertow currently performs).

With Cloudwalker, Wukong has the ability to not only move on the floor but also to elevate himself to higher heights. With the Hydroid variant being stuck on the floor, and IF the duration could play out like Cloudwalker, it could have a higher duration.

Another ability that has that duration-stealth is Wisp's Will-O-Wisp which has at base double the duration of CloudWalker.

But if it would be a a more fairer Duration-type deal: I would be thinking more about how [DE] changed Nezha's Firewalker and its Duration changes (max base 30s). This due to how the suggested Tidal Surge creates a water blast at the end of its duration similar to how Nezha's Firewalker Augment: Pyrocastic Flow creates a blast once the ability ends. The duration in that form could be slightly less than Nezha's due to the invisibility/invulnerability, but could still be manageable.

Overall, it would be all up to what fits the bill.

[kapn655321]

2 hours ago, FoxFX said:

In that regard it could be either. I used the Wukong Cloudwalker as an example of the free movement the ability could have (albeit on the floor like how Tidal Surge/Undertow currently performs).

With Cloudwalker, Wukong has the ability to not only move on the floor but also to elevate himself to higher heights. With the Hydroid variant being stuck on the floor, and IF the duration could play out like Cloudwalker, it could have a higher duration.

Another ability that has that duration-stealth is Wisp's Will-O-Wisp which has at base double the duration of CloudWalker.

But if it would be a a more fairer Duration-type deal: I would be thinking more about how [DE] changed Nezha's Firewalker and its Duration changes (max base 30s). This due to how the suggested Tidal Surge creates a water blast at the end of its duration similar to how Nezha's Firewalker Augment: Pyrocastic Flow creates a blast once the ability ends. The duration in that form could be slightly less than Nezha's due to the invisibility/invulnerability, but could still be manageable.

Overall, it would be all up to what fits the bill.

I'm just thinking of how he gets by in spy as compared to now. Sometimes, you have to wait for the AI to move, and that's an indeterminate amount of time. If it can satisfy that, then it might be fine, but I really can't be sure. Either way, I appreciate you keeping Hydroid in the discussion for revision.

[AzulMage]

1 hour ago, kapn655321 said:

I'm just thinking of how he gets by in spy as compared to now. Sometimes, you have to wait for the AI to move, and that's an indeterminate amount of time. If it can satisfy that, then it might be fine, but I really can't be sure. Either way, I appreciate you keeping Hydroid in the discussion for revision.

If he can move faster as per the change OP wants, he would be better in spy. As it stands, yes puddle can be used for stealth and spy but very slowly and just not as efficienctly as frames that were actually made with stealth in mind. 

For my take, I'm still of the mind that the best option is to make puddles deployable without him being in it but he has the option to go into it which would effectively make it act like it does now while he is inside it. When he is not, it's good non-RNG based crowd control with damage potential (plus shooting into your own puddle). Especially if he can have more than 1 puddle active. Maybe even teleport between puddles?

[kapn655321]

12 minutes ago, (NSW)SantCruz said:

If he can move faster as per the change OP wants, he would be better in spy. As it stands, yes puddle can be used for stealth and spy but very slowly and just not as efficienctly as frames that were actually made with stealth in mind. 

For my take, I'm still of the mind that the best option is to make puddles deployable without him being in it but he has the option to go into it which would effectively make it act like it does now while he is inside it. When he is not, it's good non-RNG based crowd control with damage potential (plus shooting into your own puddle). Especially if he can have more than 1 puddle active. Maybe even teleport between puddles?

The two things that appealed to me when I first looked at Hydroid and said, "Yes, I want that to be my character," before spending money on him...
1. He drops down into a puddle of water.
2. He can cast rainstorms/showers that help stealth.

I was wrong about the second one. I'm about to be wrong about the first one, too.. so that people can be faster.
Know what I mean? =/

[YagoXiten]

5 minutes ago, (NSW)SantCruz said:

If he can move faster as per the change OP wants, he would be better in spy. As it stands, yes puddle can be used for stealth and spy but very slowly and just not as efficienctly as frames that were actually made with stealth in mind. 

For my take, I'm still of the mind that the best option is to make puddles deployable without him being in it but he has the option to go into it which would effectively make it act like it does now while he is inside it. When he is not, it's good non-RNG based crowd control with damage potential (plus shooting into your own puddle). Especially if he can have more than 1 puddle active. Maybe even teleport between puddles?

The ability to deploy Undertow as a trap is something that's been suggested ad nauseum over the years and it hasn't ever been a good suggestion. Shooting at Undertow isn't fun. You can't score headshots, it doesn't move, it doesn't fight, it doesn't have damage animations. The reason Hydroid's team can shoot at Undertow is to prevent him from griefing in Defense missions. At best implementing that would just recreate the old Bastille / Vortex problem. We already have Tempest Barrage to lock down an area. Why do we need another redundant ability, especially when he already has that problem currently with 1 and 4?

[AzulMage]

24 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

The ability to deploy Undertow as a trap is something that's been suggested ad nauseum over the years and it hasn't ever been a good suggestion. Shooting at Undertow isn't fun. You can't score headshots, it doesn't move, it doesn't fight, it doesn't have damage animations. The reason Hydroid's team can shoot at Undertow is to prevent him from griefing in Defense missions. At best implementing that would just recreate the old Bastille / Vortex problem. We already have Tempest Barrage to lock down an area. Why do we need another redundant ability, especially when he already has that problem currently with 1 and 4?

I suppose you are right. As Tempest Barrage currently stands, I still think it is to0 RNG based to truly call it a lock down  or true CC ability, but I do think your proposed changes can help with that

[kapn655321]

1 hour ago, YagoXiten said:

The ability to deploy Undertow as a trap is something that's been suggested ad nauseum over the years and it hasn't ever been a good suggestion. Shooting at Undertow isn't fun. You can't score headshots, it doesn't move, it doesn't fight, it doesn't have damage animations. The reason Hydroid's team can shoot at Undertow is to prevent him from griefing in Defense missions. At best implementing that would just recreate the old Bastille / Vortex problem. We already have Tempest Barrage to lock down an area. Why do we need another redundant ability, especially when he already has that problem currently with 1 and 4?

Imo, to make Undertow/his kit/ All CC way deadlier:
Why doesn't CC always = Finishers? Game wide.

Each ability should have a CC that opens people to things like easy ground/stealth finishers, improved damage states, reduced enemy damage.. etc. Enemies having more states of susceptibility, just different susceptibilities. Every stagger, shock, knockdown.. opening different fast cool reliable kills, with bonuses. If It takes enemies out of the field of combat, that removes the potential for others to get their kill, if they expect they'd enjoy that process more. If the problem with CC is it impedes kills.. then to fix CC, it must enable the party to kill uniquely better than if you didn't.

It's going to have to at least be that to satisfy the pace of the game. CC is the set up for a kill, with the choice not to execute for some tactical advantage. Enemies are at your mercy in CC, and sometimes you can leverage that in interesting ways. We have a, "New War," coming up, and I'd like to be able to resolve situations in a more nuanced way.. but still be a killing machine at my core when needed. More so, having tools in my kit to placate and facilitate hypothetical speed runners, with some avenue out of fixatedly barking up Hydroid's arse to play at their pace. For mercy's sake, CC needs a Tone shift.

ALL CC would require: States that open enemies to context sensitive counters, grabs, finishers, modes of susceptibility, etc., game wide. Players able to pluck enemies out of ALL stun locks and knockdowns and turn it into rapid kills. Like, WAY more, "Blind = Finisher," just lots more iterations on that thematically. Maybe Blind is the longest, or gives a side bonus.. all unique side bonuses. Lots of little windows of opportunity to snag and catch finishers in new ways. Then people will probably be happy with having stunlocks and CCs everywhere, to allow people to rapidly dismantle threats in different interesting ways. Party feels good about instant executions, not setting off alarms, getting bonus affinity from stealth finishers.. Crack that WIDE open.

When you're in Undertow.. You can't just hit x to parazon.. neither can allies. They should. What about Fishing Spears allowing allies to snag enemies out into a stealth finisher? What if casting an ability could burp one up in a glob of water that pops into the air, out of the water... and if someone catches it with a finisher, they get a sweet bonus for their time and coordination. CC probably always should have been an excuse to give us sweet finishers and party bonuses.

Edited March 12, 2020 by kapn655321

[kapn655321]

I think everyone's intent is to make him keep up better in some right. OP is right to want movement to improve, and lean away from Undertow being so stuck in place. I want to make it clear that also, being stuck in place is something it needs to be able to reliable do as well. Think Curative Undertow (my most beloved augment ❤️ ...which also needs some touch ups on ease of use for parties,) but waiting long enough in a solo mission for the coast to be clear, is just as important as to him as being able to zip around with a team of supercharged flying parkour ninjas.

The party needs a way to dis-incentivize a Hydroid camping in a puddle. That much is clear... likewise there need be better options than that with his kit, incentivizing him from being stationary at the wrong times.. because evidently, there's better things he could be doing, "like just letting the party kill the things." We play Hydroid because he's got Lots of tasty Knockdown/CC/invinc frames/Maneuverability. CC is great because it suppresses enemies and opens up better opportunities on the battlefield, right? Well, maybe that's the problem there.. CC really isn't doing it's job in this context. It would need to be cleaned up fairly radically to fit the current state of the game and player's expectations.

DE, consider pumping the gas on CC/finishers.

If the tentacles tried to hand enemies off to the party for a team kill bonus finisher, I don't think anybody would mind that. All knockdown finishers could be tightened up to make it more obvious and efficient what Tempest Barrage and Tidal Surge already do for the party. Even Undertow could have ways of opening finishers.. Know how we pull enemies in? Lift them back out to offer up, and benefit the party with a little reward bonus. They're not seeing what we see in Hydroid on the battlefield, mostly because we're imagining his kit filling a role the game won't allow. If no one can kill faster than the party could, then let the party have better kills to prove them right and validate your support role at the same time.
 

[YagoXiten]

11 minutes ago, (NSW)SantCruz said:

I suppose you are right. As Tempest Barrage currently stands, I still think it is to0 RNG based to truly call it a lock down  or true CC ability, but I do think your proposed changes can help with that

It's actually rather reliable with just Stretch. Either way, you can just cast it again if you're that worried about it. It's cheap.

Also, I'm not the OP. But as for his suggestions for Tempest Barrage...they don't make any sense.

The ability isn't really used for damage, so its damage type doesn't matter much. I guess it could be changed--it wouldn't really hurt anything--but it's not going to substantially help anything either.

Changing it to a singular instance would immediately ruin the fun of making it rain explosions everywhere, it'd make the area coverage vastly worse, lower your DPS potential because you can't stack them, and do nothing for its reliability.

Increasing its accuracy by making it home in on enemies would probably make the ability less reliable, believe it or not (especially if you slow the salvo rate). Why? Because when a salvo lands near the edge of the 10m targeting radius you can hit enemies up to 5m outside of it because it has its own AoE. If it's fixated on an enemy on the center it's not going to ever hit the edge. Say you create two instances of it and they share a central region? Well, if that area has enemies in it you're going to waste all the salvo explosions for two different instances on a single spot. Got a bunch of enemies on one side of the AoE and only one or two on the other? You're going to make it a lot easier for them to get up as it focuses down the more densely populated region.

[FoxFX]

I was trying to make a suggestion to change Hydroid's Tempest Barrage into something else entirely at first...

BUT

From some discussions I had, a LOT of players did not want Tempest Barrage to change due to the Augment [Corrosive Barrage]. Things are now a bit different with the Damage-type changes, and there can be room to settle how the ability works now. But I wanted to try to keep Tempest Barrage to avoid any backlash on the possible removal of the Corrosive Augment.

[kapn655321]

6 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

I was trying to make a suggestion to change Hydroid's Tempest Barrage into something else entirely at first...

BUT

From some discussions I had, a LOT of players did not want Tempest Barrage to change due to the Augment [Corrosive Barrage]. Things are now a bit different with the Damage-type changes, and there can be room to settle how the ability works now. But I wanted to try to keep Tempest Barrage to avoid any backlash on the possible removal of the Corrosive Augment.

I did some concept work with that myself.. It doesn't have to be corrosive, in my mind.. when Shattering Impact is a mechanic with more versatility, but without the status. Thus the augment could still be used to amplify the crap out of that angle.

[YagoXiten]

1 hour ago, FoxFX said:

I was trying to make a suggestion to change Hydroid's Tempest Barrage into something else entirely at first...

BUT

From some discussions I had, a LOT of players did not want Tempest Barrage to change due to the Augment [Corrosive Barrage]. Things are now a bit different with the Damage-type changes, and there can be room to settle how the ability works now. But I wanted to try to keep Tempest Barrage to avoid any backlash on the possible removal of the Corrosive Augment.

It still doesn't make much sense, though. Hydroid's best abilities are Tempest Barrage and Undertow. Corroding Barrage is still good though (sadly) less powerful now. And the ability isn't dependent upon the augment the way some other abilities are. If the goal of revisiting Hydroid is to improve him, why would you significantly change his best abilities? It's like replacing Frost's Snow Globe. Maybe you could make something fun and better capture his ice theme, but it wouldn't be Frost and it wouldn't be fair to the people that enjoy him for what he is.

[FoxFX]

12 hours ago, YagoXiten said:

It still doesn't make much sense, though. Hydroid's best abilities are Tempest Barrage and Undertow. Corroding Barrage is still good though (sadly) less powerful now. And the ability isn't dependent upon the augment the way some other abilities are. If the goal of revisiting Hydroid is to improve him, why would you significantly change his best abilities? It's like replacing Frost's Snow Globe. Maybe you could make something fun and better capture his ice theme, but it wouldn't be Frost and it wouldn't be fair to the people that enjoy him for what he is.

 

So in your case: you don't want to lose the Undertow + Tempest Barrage combo?

I want to keep in mind this article was made weeks ago and that was before the recent Mainline Update. I had discussed and asked around a lot of other players through live chat on their current thoughts on Hydroid. I will eventually update the OP in due time.

[YagoXiten]

4 hours ago, FoxFX said:

 

So in your case: you don't want to lose the Undertow + Tempest Barrage combo?

I want to keep in mind this article was made weeks ago and that was before the recent Mainline Update. I had discussed and asked around a lot of other players through live chat on their current thoughts on Hydroid. I will eventually update the OP in due time.

I don't really want to lose any of Hydroid's abilities. I just want him to be better. His biggest issue is that he's basically stuck with three abilities because Tentacle Swarm is only really useful for its augment which isn't actually all that useful.

Tempest Barrage doesn't need anything done to it. It's one of the best 1s in the game, it fits his theme, it does its job. It has a great augment, and it even puts out pretty impressive damage. Its charge feature is actually useful, too. Obviously they should fix the bug it currently has that makes enemies ragdoll and bounce around all over the place.

Tidal Surge could really use a shift to work more like Mach Rush so that you can actually use it on smaller tilesets without being forced to smash into a wall or get stuck on some invisible pixel of level geometry for a full second. A hold paradigm also makes it less stop and go when you're traveling long distances. I've seen people suggest a tap/hold paradigm where a tap sends out the wave at enemies and a hold has Hydroid become the wave, as he does now, and I wouldn't be opposed to that, either.

Undertow needs to let you reload in it. You can currently finish a reload if you've started an automatic one after emptying your magazine, but if you initiate a manual reload and then use Undertow it cancels it, which is a frustrating inconsistency. Maybe it could move 15-30% faster, but it honestly doesn't need to. You can just use Tidal Surge for that. In certain spots that can be a little clunky, but if you improve Tidal Surge's cast paradigm you fix that automatically. Tidal Surge also needs to quit dropping enemies from Undertow.

Tentacle Swarm needs some heavy work. Either a large scale rework and a massive change to how the ability functions or it needs a band-aid solution like making it hold enemies in T-pose like Bastille, because at least then you can score headshots which makes it functionally distinct from his other CC effects.

 

 

[AzulMage]

50 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

I don't really want to lose any of Hydroid's abilities. I just want him to be better. His biggest issue is that he's basically stuck with three abilities because Tentacle Swarm is only really useful for its augment which isn't actually all that useful.

Tempest Barrage doesn't need anything done to it. It's one of the best 1s in the game, it fits his theme, it does its job. It has a great augment, and it even puts out pretty impressive damage. Its charge feature is actually useful, too. Obviously they should fix the bug it currently has that makes enemies ragdoll and bounce around all over the place.

Tidal Surge could really use a shift to work more like Mach Rush so that you can actually use it on smaller tilesets without being forced to smash into a wall or get stuck on some invisible pixel of level geometry for a full second. A hold paradigm also makes it less stop and go when you're traveling long distances. I've seen people suggest a tap/hold paradigm where a tap sends out the wave at enemies and a hold has Hydroid become the wave, as he does now, and I wouldn't be opposed to that, either.

Undertow needs to let you reload in it. You can currently finish a reload if you've started an automatic one after emptying your magazine, but if you initiate a manual reload and then use Undertow it cancels it, which is a frustrating inconsistency. Maybe it could move 15-30% faster, but it honestly doesn't need to. You can just use Tidal Surge for that. In certain spots that can be a little clunky, but if you improve Tidal Surge's cast paradigm you fix that automatically. Tidal Surge also needs to quit dropping enemies from Undertow.

Tentacle Swarm needs some heavy work. Either a large scale rework and a massive change to how the ability functions or it needs a band-aid solution like making it hold enemies in T-pose like Bastille, because at least then you can score headshots which makes it functionally distinct from his other CC effects.

 

 

I disagree that his 1 doesn't need any changes. It needs shortened cast time for sure. Waiting for the ability to activate 1 second after pressing the button is crazy. I would also remove the charge feature entirely as that adds another layer of slowness to his kit and instead make the tap cast equivalent to his current 1 cast. Also, damage is not in any way good on it especially on higher levels. The augment does improve it for sure but there are better ways to strip armor and use corrosive so I think it's worth adjusting it in some way

I would argue his 2 is more useless than his 4. I barely ever see a reason to use it except for moving in his 3 or just moving fast in a straight line when I want to get to extraction. I do like your tap and hold thing, seeing as hold would be for movement ability, that would be one case where holding for an ability would be fine while tapping adds an offensive/CC component. Your suggested changes would really make moveme feel better.

 

Yes to tidal surge not dropping enemies when in undertow. And I do think it needs to move faster if they would keep it in a theoretical rework (so many people hate his 3 that maybe they would get rid of it). Personally I like his 3 and just think it needs some adjustments though if they replaced it with something different, as long as it worked well I wouldn't mind.

 

His 4.... Well I like it more than his 2. It's just too RNG based, flails enemies so you can't even shoot them, gets worse with range mods since you can't control number of tentacles. But I do enjoy using it for it's true damage especially off his undertow for double damage. It, like his 2, needs a lot of work. 

[YagoXiten]

1 hour ago, (NSW)SantCruz said:

I disagree that his 1 doesn't need any changes. It needs shortened cast time for sure. Waiting for the ability to activate 1 second after pressing the button is crazy. I would also remove the charge feature entirely as that adds another layer of slowness to his kit and instead make the tap cast equivalent to his current 1 cast. Also, damage is not in any way good on it especially on higher levels. The augment does improve it for sure but there are better ways to strip armor and use corrosive so I think it's worth adjusting it in some way

I would argue his 2 is more useless than his 4. I barely ever see a reason to use it except for moving in his 3 or just moving fast in a straight line when I want to get to extraction. I do like your tap and hold thing, seeing as hold would be for movement ability, that would be one case where holding for an ability would be fine while tapping adds an offensive/CC component. Your suggested changes would really make moveme feel better.

 

Yes to tidal surge not dropping enemies when in undertow. And I do think it needs to move faster if they would keep it in a theoretical rework (so many people hate his 3 that maybe they would get rid of it). Personally I like his 3 and just think it needs some adjustments though if they replaced it with something different, as long as it worked well I wouldn't mind.

 

His 4.... Well I like it more than his 2. It's just too RNG based, flails enemies so you can't even shoot them, gets worse with range mods since you can't control number of tentacles. But I do enjoy using it for it's true damage especially off his undertow for double damage. It, like his 2, needs a lot of work. 

The cast time on it is one handed and actually pretty brief. The 1 second delay is the cast animation plus the activation delay. It's not something that hurts its function, nor is it unique to Hydroid. Most persistent / deployed CC abilities have a delay. It could be reduced without hurting him, but its presence isn't making him worse. Again, I'm not saying that there aren't things that could change with it, but that there's nothing that actually needs to. The fact that it has a bit of a delay isn't what makes him a lackluster choice for a squad slot.

I'm not sure what your issue with the charge feature is. If you don't want to use it you don't have to. It's sometimes nice to have an instance last twice as long, and there's plenty of opportunities to charge it when you're recharging shields or healing during Undertow.

It does 750 to 3000 damage, or 3000 to 12000 damage on a charge, over its duration if you assume they get hit by at least one salvo per second. Miasma does 7200. I'm honestly not sure why you think it doesn't deal damage. Prior to the Corrosive changes I was killing level 120 Bombards with a handful of charged casts and my build only has 100% Strength and 150% Duration. It's nothing to write home about, but it's sure as hell not something to balk at, either.

Those things occur pretty frequently, though. And it's useful for moving around inside of Undertow, too You can also use it to group enemies into a corner so you can melee them or back up and AoE them. It's also quite useful for separating an Ancient Healer from a group of enemies, or for extending your invulnerability when exiting Undertow when an Ancient Healer or a Nullifier or something is around. Also, if you weren't aware, there's a useful animation cancel you can do with Tidal Surge and Undertow where you'll perform a normal Tidal Surge at half speed. You activate Undertow, then use Tidal Surge, then immediately after that you deactivate Undertow. The timing is pretty tight. Maybe it's not an ability that you use all that much, but that's not the same thing as not useful, you know?

Thankfully I don't think they'll ever get rid of Undertow. Unfortunately, I don't think they'll rework Tentacle Swarm much, either. They seem to like it too much. I agree there should be room for fun powers like Pulverize or Switch Teleport, but this, IDK. I'm at the point where I just want it to spit out health orbs or give me armor or cause puncture procs or make enemies T-pose or just more than quintuple its damage. I want it to do something tangible other than make it harder to aim.