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Thoughts on the Stalker going forward..


Tinklzs
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Just watched a new players reaction to Second Dream and the part where stalker points the hunhow at the tenno (after they've just fallen out of their pod) got me thinking. 

When stalker looks at his hand, the tenno does too. My theory (probably unoriginal but a neat thought) is the stalker is the tenno from the future (The Duviri Paradox) and grows to hate what they've become, so they either try to kill them, or are 'trying to train them" (not enough story from stalker to decipher here).   For those wondering "we'll there are millions of tenno", I've read on multiple forums that the 'theory' is, there is only one tenno, you the individual player, and when you group up - that's not in the lore, it's just 'the multiplayer'. 

Because I don't recall any dialogue where konzu or any other syndicate says "Oh, I'll just use another tenno", or the equivalent. Which makes the stalker = you from the future theory a bit more plausible.

 

 I think it has some great potential if they can give the stalker a legitimate reason for it (and to side with hunhow too). Assuming Warframe lasts long enough, maybe end up living through stalkers eyes then if we ever truly defeat him, we end up living 'through' stalker and that's how warframe could 'eventually' end?   Just a neat thought to entertain. 

So, what do you think?

 

edit: Remembered about the void and when you hear about the other tenno kids that got their powers. However, we haven't heard of them since.

Edited by Tinklzs
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Off topic a bit but I think this needs to be addressed too, can add in new lore to it but:

I think with the addition of Lichs, the assassins of all factions need to see a buff.

You could tie these buffs to The War Within like the Second Dream locked Shadow Stalker to that quest. Were gunna also get Corpus liches eventually, you could even tie Lichs to the Stalker and the Acoyltes where you have Lichs made around them. They did say something along the lines of a "Stalker Syndicate" being developed why not have all the assassins tied to the Lich system? 

The Wolf Of Saturn 6 alone proved that the G3, Zanuka and Stalker all feel dated. If they are going to continue adding enemies to Nightwave along those lines....are we going to leave the original assassins in the dust? Add in the syndicate assassins which are simply and annoyance now and something needs to be done.

Maybe tie in the assassin bluffs to Nightwave so you can also get a lore development behind it. Some sort of change needs to take place, especially for The Stalker since we haven't seen much of anything since The Second Dream. 

Edited by (XB1)Cram Duahcim
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2 minutes ago, (XB1)Cram Duahcim said:

Off topic a bit but I think this needs to be addressed too, can add in new lore to it but:

I think with the addition of Lichs, the assassins of all factions need to see a buff.

You could tie these buffs to The War Within like the Second Dream locked Shadow Stalker to that quest. Were gunna also get Corpus liches eventually, you could even tie Lichs to the Stalker and the Acoyltes where you have Lichs made around them. They did say something along the lines of a "Stalker Syndicate" being developed why not have all the assassins tied to the Lich system? 

The Wolf Of Saturn 6 alone proved that the G3, Zanuka and Stalker all feel dated. If they are going to continue adding enemies to Nightwave along those lines....are we going to leave the original assassins in the dust? Add in the syndicate assassins which are simply and annoyance now and something needs to be done.

Maybe tie in the assassin bluffs to Nightwave so you can also get a lore development behind it. Some sort of change needs to take place, especially for The Stalker since we haven't seen much of anything since The Second Dream. 

I think they need to find a balance first (by balancing Warframe, ironically). The liches/wolf didn't feel like 'bosses', at least not in the way I'd see a boss, they just feel like Borderlands bulletsponges that take up stupid amounts of damage, facetanking everything.   The lich's having abilities is a step in the right direction for variety, and is a welcomed change. However, lich's having damage resistance of 95% + and damage immunity, is quite boring and could be done much better if we had better overall balance. 

 

I do agree that assassin-types and syndicate ambushes need a buff/re-work, but I think DE needs to focus on overall balance first, we're simply too powerful, but that doesn't mean we need to lose a power-fantasy, it just means DE needs to look at many of the ideas on the forums/reddit and decide if they want boss-types to be as they're, tanky, boring, uninspired. Or if they want them to have more abilities, mobility, actual countermeasures (that can be countered increasing skill and gives players something to learn).  Anything goes here, but balance must be obtained to make this not only easier to do, but assist with many of the issues Warframe has with enemy armor scaling/damage output, etc. 

Sadly, when some players hear "balance" they get fearful of heavy nerfs, and don't understand that  balance is important, even in a PvE game

We shall see though.

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20 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

When stalker looks at his hand, the tenno does too. My theory (probably unoriginal but a neat thought) is the stalker is the tenno from the future (The Duviri Paradox) and grows to hate what they've become, so they either try to kill them, or are 'trying to train them" (not enough story from stalker to decipher here).   

Stalker gives his identity in his Codex Entry: he's a Guardian (Orokin soldier) who survived the Massacre of Outer Terminus (battle between the seven Orokin Emperors and the Tenno, where only Ballas escaped) and swore epic revenge on the Tenno. He very clearly states he is not a Tenno, not in the traditional sense where he has some connection to Zariman 10-0 or the Void.

He IS using Transference. His armor is an Excalibur Umbra, and the Silver Grove quest confirms that Transference is not exclusive to the Tenno but that normal humans can use it too

Basically the reason Stalker looks at his hand like that is he realizes he has become what he hates. He has "stooped to our level" as he would put it, using "devil's tools for devil's work" and other such metaphors, and has even allied with a freaking Sentient whom he is supposed to be at war with if he's an Orokin

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Just now, Tinklzs said:

I think they need to find a balance first (by balancing Warframe, ironically). The liches/wolf didn't feel like 'bosses', at least not in the way I'd see a boss, they just feel like Borderlands bulletsponges that take up stupid amounts of damage, facetanking everything.   The lich's having abilities is a step in the right direction for variety, and is a welcomed change. However, lich's having damage resistance of 95% + and damage immunity, is quite boring and could be done much better if we had better overall balance. 

 

I do agree that assassin-types and syndicate ambushes need a buff/re-work, but I think DE needs to focus on overall balance first, we're simply too powerful, but that doesn't mean we need to lose a power-fantasy, it just means DE needs to look at many of the ideas on the forums/reddit and decide if they want boss-types to be as they're, tanky, boring, uninspired. Or if they want them to have more abilities, mobility, actual countermeasures (that can be countered increasing skill and gives players something to learn).  Anything goes here, but balance must be obtained to make this not only easier to do, but assist with many of the issues Warframe has with enemy armor scaling/damage output, etc. 

Sadly, when some players hear "balance" they get fearful of heavy nerfs, and don't understand that  balance is important, even in a PvE game

We shall see though.

The only way I see a balance coming is by DE honestly either buffing enemies or making the new content have a higher scale compared to older content. It's the easiest and quickest way to do it. Is that what the playerbase wants? No they'd want a complete rework. 

Just look at how long melee 2.99999999 is coming along. Imagine damage 2.99999999. It just wouldnt happen. It be easier to scale up newer content. 

 

I think the way to honestly scale up this game is to tie it to mastery rank, but again I dont see that happening either 

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3 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Stalker gives his identity in his Codex Entry: he's a Guardian (Orokin soldier) who survived the Massacre of Outer Terminus (battle between the seven Orokin Emperors and the Tenno, where only Ballas escaped) and swore epic revenge on the Tenno. He very clearly states he is not a Tenno, not in the traditional sense where he has some connection to Zariman 10-0 or the Void.

He IS using Transference. His armor is an Excalibur Umbra, and the Silver Grove quest confirms that Transference is not exclusive to the Tenno but that normal humans can use it too

Basically the reason Stalker looks at his hand like that is he realizes he has become what he hates. He has "stooped to our level" as he would put it, using "devil's tools for devil's work" and other such metaphors, and has even allied with a freaking Sentient whom he is supposed to be at war with if he's an Orokin

I really want his helmet to come as a cosmetic. And I think The New War could be a way to get some more Stalker lore in the game

But hes suppose to be on par with us in regards to power level. I want him to get a HUGE buff so hes on par with us. But what I don't want to see is buff tied to the Stalker mode where hes player controlled. Not just from a PvP standpoint but also from a lore standpoint. 

Make Stakler badass again lol 

 

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Just now, (XB1)Cram Duahcim said:

I really want his helmet to come as a cosmetic. And I think The New War could be a way to get some more Stalker lore in the game

Please submit your Acolyte application down the barrel of my Hek, you traitor

1 minute ago, (XB1)Cram Duahcim said:

But hes suppose to be on par with us in regards to power level. I want him to get a HUGE buff so hes on par with us. But what I don't want to see is buff tied to the Stalker mode where hes player controlled. Not just from a PvP standpoint but also from a lore standpoint. 

Make Stakler badass again lol 

This we can agree on. He went from a deadly hunter, to freaking Pyramid Head. And Pyramid Head is slow and telegraphed, he's not scary to anyone not trapped in a dark claustrophobic basement; we can literally run circles around Shadow Stalker and he can't touch us. If we tried that on Stalker Classic we'd end up with a barrage of Despair knives where our lungs used to be

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As much as I like the quest, I hate it when multiplayer game developers make quests where you are "special" and doesn't take into account the thousands of other players doing the same quest as well. It's lazy writing and needs to stop. That said, the game does mention other Tenno. Some of the cinematics have more than one Tenno in them. In fact, it wouldn't make sense if there were no other Tenno because of Railjack. The Railjack was designed for a squad of Tenno.

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3 minutes ago, Lokryn said:

As much as I like the quest, I hate it when multiplayer game developers make quests where you are "special" and doesn't take into account the thousands of other players doing the same quest as well. It's lazy writing and needs to stop. That said, the game does mention other Tenno. Some of the cinematics have more than one Tenno in them. In fact, it wouldn't make sense if there were no other Tenno because of Railjack. The Railjack was designed for a squad of Tenno.

I think The New War Relay is gonna solve that problem. But at the same time....thousands of tenno will have different outcomes. They did have like 5 Railjacks out front in the window ready to deploy...it was a nice touch to say "theres more then one of us"

Were gunna confront the Lotus eventually. I just hope that the morality system actually gives us different outcomes, rewards(my stalker helm) and consequences. Theres only so much they can do to either make us special, tell a story and have different individual outcomes. 

I also honestly hope that the ending of The War Within is also addressed and the choices we made at the end. I feel like that's been forgotten. (I hope not, I actually had a drink with the voice actress of worm at tennocon she was all cosplayed up and had a discussion over this issue, coy answers but it was good)

 

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14 minutes ago, Lokryn said:

As much as I like the quest, I hate it when multiplayer game developers make quests where you are "special" and doesn't take into account the thousands of other players doing the same quest as well. It's lazy writing and needs to stop. That said, the game does mention other Tenno. Some of the cinematics have more than one Tenno in them. In fact, it wouldn't make sense if there were no other Tenno because of Railjack. The Railjack was designed for a squad of Tenno.

There's actually an implied multiverse courtesy of the Quills, and the quests you're doing are in your branch of the multiverse.  Which is really a slight bit of a cop-out, but it makes some sense.  You're the special one, at least in that branch; Who's to say the other Tenno aren't in their own branches, which intersect with yours for a brief time (the cinematics with others and, oh yeah, the multiplayer).

As for more than one frame that's quest-locked?  Yeah that's just gameplay and story segregation.

Edited by Sintag
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22 minutes ago, Sintag said:

There's actually an implied multiverse courtesy of the Quills, and the quests you're doing are in your branch of the multiverse.  Which is really a slight bit of a cop-out, but it makes some sense.  You're the special one, at least in that branch; Who's to say the other Tenno aren't in their own branches, which intersect with yours for a brief time (the cinematics with others and, oh yeah, the multiplayer).

As for more than one frame that's quest-locked?  Yeah that's just gameplay and story segregation.

Cop out yes but I dont know how else you make the narrative surround all of us. 

I just really want to know what they plan to do with the morality system. I think we should have some sort of warframe and operator cosmetic that reflects our choices, kinda like the Paragon/Renegade status like mass effect 2. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

Stalker gives his identity in his Codex Entry: he's a Guardian (Orokin soldier) who survived the Massacre of Outer Terminus (battle between the seven Orokin Emperors and the Tenno, where only Ballas escaped) and swore epic revenge on the Tenno. He very clearly states he is not a Tenno, not in the traditional sense where he has some connection to Zariman 10-0 or the Void.

He IS using Transference. His armor is an Excalibur Umbra, and the Silver Grove quest confirms that Transference is not exclusive to the Tenno but that normal humans can use it too

Basically the reason Stalker looks at his hand like that is he realizes he has become what he hates. He has "stooped to our level" as he would put it, using "devil's tools for devil's work" and other such metaphors, and has even allied with a freaking Sentient whom he is supposed to be at war with if he's an Orokin

Maybe a past DAX soldier that was used, feels pity on the tenno (at least in second dream, thus the hesitation) but hates what he's become and possibly blames the tenno for it?  

I don't read the codex's (obviously), sometimes reading can be interesting and add to world building (Fallout series, Skyrim etc.) I find it to be kind of lazy here, especially since Warframe is grossly lacking in its story telling. Second Dream and The War Within are peaks that DE hasn't come close to since. What sucks is they have vibrant open worlds, begging to have lore attached to them, but are squandered, wasted. Withering away and forgotten by most as just 'something to explore with no substance, no depth". Most of the areas in Fortuna, some in the Plains, look interesting and SHOULD have something interesting happen (or has happened) but.. nothing.

 

Just a shame. Hopefully we get more info as things go along but I doubt it, shame on The stalker having lore that debunks my theory - would've been a nice tie-in with the paradox that's coming.

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