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(PS4)Ashmane84

The process of gilding kitguns is is horribly, objectively flawed.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You only grind them to thirty twice?

iknoryt what a bargain!!1!1!1one!1111oneone!11!uno1!!1!1!!

2 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

What about all the weapons and warframes with all of the forma you dump into them? 

Uhh see those are actually a choice** since you've already gotten your MR from them the first time around, meaning if you're adding forma to them it's because (wait for it) you enjoy playing that weapon. 

4 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Takes quite a few more times to get something that you really want to keep, doesn't it? So..... 

Really not sure if you're just shilling or?

 

**With the exception of the Paracesis and any and all Lich/Kuva weapons that withhold their full MR until you deposit the requisite number of Forma into them.

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10 hours ago, Oreades said:

iknoryt what a bargain!!1!1!1one!1111oneone!11!uno1!!1!1!!

Uhh see those are actually a choice** since you've already gotten your MR from them the first time around, meaning if you're adding forma to them it's because (wait for it) you enjoy playing that weapon. 

Really not sure if you're just shilling or?

 

**With the exception of the Paracesis and any and all Lich/Kuva weapons that withhold their full MR until you deposit the requisite number of Forma into them.

So, you're telling me that you actually level quite a few items to the maximum rank, many times, because you actually choose to of your own free will? 

And still you're trying to pretend that doing it twice is unbearably onerous? How silly of you. 

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12 hours ago, Oreades said:

Gilding is objectively flawed for one simple reason 

It only exists to force the players to grind out the weapons to lvl30 >>>twice<<< just to get their MR and that's gildings contribution to the game..... 

If your only goal is increasing MR, don't use kitguns, Moas, or zaws.   A lot more work than the standard alternatives... not effective if you're just ranking MR.   You use kitguns because you intend to forma the hell out of it and make it awesome, rather than merely pretty good.  The extra trip to 30 increases its damage significantly more than 1 more forma.

 

** and if you're just ranking MR, you're not wasting forma on it in the first place.  Rank it, then junk it.

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4 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

So, you're telling me that you actually level quite a few items to the maximum rank, many times, because you actually choose to of your own free will? 

And still you're trying to pretend that doing it twice is unbearably onerous? How silly of you. 

It's almost like people enjoy using the weapons they enjoy and not being forced to needlessly re-level weapons that they don't just for the MR. I know this must be a jarring and foreign concept to you.... 

2 hours ago, Krenlik said:

If your only goal is increasing MR, don't use kitguns, Moas, or zaws.   A lot more work than the standard alternatives... not effective if you're just ranking MR.   You use kitguns because you intend to forma the hell out of it and make it awesome, rather than merely pretty good.  The extra trip to 30 increases its damage significantly more than 1 more forma.

 

** and if you're just ranking MR, you're not wasting forma on it in the first place.  Rank it, then junk it.

Cool beans more and more mechanics where the go-to answer is "Just ignore them". great ROI for DE. 

Fun fact ignoring things didn't work with the Paracesis, now we have like 8 weapons with the same toxic MR extortion mechanic. 

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2 hours ago, Oreades said:

It's almost like people enjoy using the weapons they enjoy and not being forced to needlessly re-level weapons that they don't just for the MR. I know this must be a jarring and foreign concept to you.... 

 

I know this might be jarring, but if you're not levelling a weapon because you enjoy it, but are only concerned about raising their MR, there are a LOT better ways to do it.   Choosing to ignore those ways is silly.  Tons of cheap MR 1-5 guns on the market to level.   

And if you DO enjoy that weapon, the MR is a side effect, and you're going to be levelling it many times anyway.

 

Quote

Fun fact ignoring things didn't work with the Paracesis, now we have like 8 weapons with the same toxic MR extortion mechanic. 

And I haven't bothered taking any of them to max... I don't care about the MR that badly.  I have other weapons I like that I've invested 5 forma in.  I have other weapons I take to 30 and junk immediately. 

I have never forma'd a weapon specially to get a little MR-xp.   Maybe in a few years I'll have no other way to gain it, but that isn't today.

 

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You bring up good points.  It is hard for a new player.  If you are not planning on a rage quit, look me up.  I can help you out with credit in index easily.  

Wait until you get a log in credit booster, then look me up.  I'll carry you threw a few rounds of index and you'll have over a million credits in no time at all.  Then you can buy your way through Venus with ticker.  

It's been a while since I done bounties but it's 20% per match and there are 5 waves in higher bounties, so statically, you should get 1 per 5-wave bounty.  I forget if a resource booster helps here.  

Another option is killing big spiders which drops lots of resources but this is much harder and definately not new player friendly.  

Join a clan and get some help!

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OK lets disect this......

15 minutes ago, Krenlik said:

I know this might be jarring, but if you're not levelling a weapon because you enjoy it, but are only concerned about raising their MR, there are a LOT better ways to do it.  

Leveling gear is..... literally the only way to raise your MR.... but ok let's keep going....

15 minutes ago, Krenlik said:

Choosing to ignore those ways is silly.

OK I'm all ears what are these non gear leveling ways to elevate ones MR? 

16 minutes ago, Krenlik said:

Tons of cheap MR 1-5 guns on the market to level.   

Soooo there aren't non gear leveling ways to raise your MR then, glad we're on the same page at least....

Tho assuming your "better way" is to just go level something else you don't enjoy as an alternative to double leveling the gilded weapons that you dont' enjoy..... riddle me this.... what happens when you run out of non gilded weapons to level and aren't max MR.... hmmmmm almost like you;'re forced to deal with them at one point or another and the only real choice is how long you want to put them off.....

19 minutes ago, Krenlik said:

And if you DO enjoy that weapon, the MR is a side effect, and you're going to be levelling it many times anyway.

..... uh huh, go on

See this just seems like an extension of the "you where going to do it anyway so what's the problem" non argument that permeate these threads.Yeah I was going to level everything once, because obligation. I was going to invest forma into weapons I enjoyed because, I enjoyed them...... 

The two classes of weapons that DO NOT follow these rules are 

  • Modular weapons, that needlessly require you to level them twice to extract your MR weather you enjoy them or not
  • Paracesis/Lich weapons, that needlessly require you to not only level them six times but to also invest five forma into them to extract your MR

Neither of those scenarios should IMHO be a thing, MR should always fully extract at 30 and anything beyond that should be done because you actually enjoy the weapon.

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2 hours ago, Oreades said:

Leveling gear is..... literally the only way to raise your MR.... but ok let's keep going....

Not for an MR6 who hasn't completed the star chart yet..... But ok you keep going. 

 

2 hours ago, Oreades said:

OK I'm all ears what are these non gear leveling ways to elevate ones MR? 

Star Chart, Junctions. 30k standing. 

2 hours ago, Oreades said:

Soooo there aren't non gear leveling ways to raise your MR then, glad we're on the same page at least....

Uh.... Yeah there are... So... You're welcome? 

 

Take all the time you need to check if you like. 

 

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Didn't read the other answers. If you are on PC, we could go for index together. You can find me in-game. I'm MR15 and I haven't touched Eidolon, other focus school, and most of the late game content (Lich, Railjack) Of course I haven't gotten my rattleguts too. I saved up few millions of credit so it was easy for me to get to the second last rank. 

Go index only when you are on 2x credit. You will have a chance of getting that from the login reward. Did you join a clan? I'm sure most of them are happy to bring you.

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4 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

You bring up good points.  It is hard for a new player.  If you are not planning on a rage quit, look me up.  I can help you out with credit in index easily.  

Wait until you get a log in credit booster, then look me up.  I'll carry you threw a few rounds of index and you'll have over a million credits in no time at all.  Then you can buy your way through Venus with ticker.  

It's been a while since I done bounties but it's 20% per match and there are 5 waves in higher bounties, so statically, you should get 1 per 5-wave bounty.  I forget if a resource booster helps here.  

Another option is killing big spiders which drops lots of resources but this is much harder and definately not new player friendly.  

Join a clan and get some help!

I was only lurking in hopes someone would be helpful, and you are, so I thought I'd pop in with an honest thank you. Thank you.

That said your numbers are a bit off. According to the wiki the odds of getting a bond are only 20% for the first step, with it dropping to 12.5% for steps two and three, and dropping again all the way down to 0% for steps four and five. So right there if the bounty has more than three steps there is no point in finishing it. Likewise the overall odds of getting at least one bond, per bounty, is around 40%, less than half. This might actually be pretty good on paper; gamers put up with dramatically lower drop rates all the time. But some of us are blessed by the "RNG Gods" and others cursed by them, and I've always been the latter. Case and point; I've been running five tier 3 bounties a night, for the last week. Know how many bonds I've gotten? One.

Bad luck, not the game's fault, I know. I just wish there was something other than this I could do. I hate grinding the same content over and over, and that's actually WHY I was attracted to Warframe. Saw a Noclip documentary about the game where one of the devs said it was a PvE focused game, not PvP ("You have my curiosity..."), and they know the only way to survive with that model is to constantly add new content ("You have my attention."). I just wish they'd said "grindy repetitive content that will take unreasonably long times to actually accomplish anything." Sort of a deal breaker when life and family obligations mean you'll never be anything beyond a "casual" player. 

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2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Not for an MR6 who hasn't completed the star chart yet..... But ok you keep going. 

Yeah, cause that somehow justifies a terrible mechanic..... but keep going :clem:

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Star Chart, Junctions. 30k standing. 

Uh.... Yeah there are... So... You're welcome? 

Wowzers, starchart junctions~

Alright guys might as well closet the topic since all of our MR problems have been taken care of through the power of starchart junctions~

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Take all the time you need to check if you like. 

Hmm a ten second cursory check reveals that starchart junctions will net you (in accordance with the wiki) a whopping 13k mastery for completing all 13 of them. The break down 1k MRxp each (actual gear rendering 3000-6000 each)....I can only assume that you're also lumping in the fist time completion of each and every mission node cause that gets almost close clocking in at a whopping ~27k(ish) but I guess close enough for government work?

For some actual comparison the ammount of MRxp you get from weapons alone is well over 1,000,000 MRxp and that leaves us quite a ways away from MR30. 

Meaning that the starchart XP is hardly a drop in the bucket. Not to mention (wait for it) those are actually something you're naturally going to do in the progression of the game. Unlike (wait for it) being forced to needlessly double up on leveling a "modular" weapon for it's MRxp or sextuple leveling up (with forced forma investment) a Paracesis or Kuva/Lich weapon for it's leveling juices. 

 

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34 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Hmm a ten second cursory check reveals that starchart junctions will net you (in accordance with the wiki) a whopping 13k mastery for completing all 13 of them. The break down 1k MRxp each (actual gear rendering 3000-6000 each)....I can only assume that you're also lumping in the fist time completion of each and every mission node cause that gets almost close clocking in at a whopping ~27k(ish) but I guess close enough for government work?

I dunno. I don't work for the government. I used the figures attached to the table with Hotfix 27.0.4 in the title. I'll let you check it again. 

I also didn't include the intrinsics because while the OP isn't locked out by MR they're not going to be able to tackle that just yet. That's another 60k. 

But we can pretend that does not exist either if you like. Although for a new player's perspective, completing the star chart the accumulated mastery ranks just from getting there should take them past the MR 5 requirement. 

 

And here's the fact that you probably really won't like at all: neither of us is all that special. Newbs have just as much agency as you or I did. We made it to our respective MRs, and they can too. 

The only question becomes, "are they willing to take advice and learn, or do they stomp their feet and whine?" 

I know which I've been trying to encourage. Do you? 

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On 2020-02-21 at 2:25 AM, Oreades said:

Meaning that the starchart XP is hardly a drop in the bucket.

The xp may be a drop in the bucket but if OP actually completed the star chart he'd have access to places like hydron where leveling gear becomes trivial.

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cant you buy it with plat? getting more then enough with trading in 1-2 days is much easier then all this boring grind. i dont grind reputation btw 😄 i still at rank 2 or 3 and i dont like bounties. i like to play with groups and cant host. running to the door and hope i will get a group kills the fun. even if its few seconds.

or as an example: I read books for 1-2 months and watched videos and also sold items in the trade chat in 2014. result was 20k plat. I still have almost half of it.

i bought mine with plat btw.

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I dont mind the way kitguns are right now. zaws are for whatever reason worse in my opinion, but kuva gear is even worse. to level I mean.

in the long run, its down to how worth it it is, and being a free game it also has to have a catch to try and make you spend cash for it in the first place.

At lest you get a free forma with the guilding. I do hate that it has reduced stats at first but again it could be worse.

 

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6 hours ago, (XB1)Dee Dubbalyoo said:

The xp may be a drop in the bucket but if OP actually completed the star chart he'd have access to places like hydron where leveling gear becomes trivial.

Yeah except the fact that Hydron exists doesn't make this any less of an issue. 

Needing to level your weapon twice (or up to six times for Paracesis/Kuva weapons) is still disgusting. If a player is leveling their gear multiple times or tossing a ton of forma into it, it should be because they enjoy it not because MR is being held hostage. 

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15 hours ago, Oreades said:

Yeah except the fact that Hydron exists doesn't make this any less of an issue. 

The OP's issue is that he hit a wall trying to level his kitgun due to the fact that he's trying to do it before having moved on from Venus. Suggesting that he focus instead on using easier methods (for his current circumstance) to raise his MR so he's better able to handle the content he's struggling with, and open up the star chart so he's got access to better gear and easier ways of leveling said gear and acquiring the necessary resources, and that he come back to the kitgun when he's better prepared, will help him resolve his issue. Sure, it's not going to remove the added grind on certain weapons but that wasn't really OP's issue.

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I kinda lost my mind when being Nyx with EMP aura didn't effect anything and Djinn auto dies either from explosions or direct target attacks, being unable to revive you, with Sacrifice.

I really think Sanctuary should activate if the sentinel is using Sacrifice on you. 

I've found various ways around soloing out there, but it's not easy, and being forced to play specific frames really peves me.

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14 hours ago, (XB1)Dee Dubbalyoo said:

The OP's issue is that he hit a wall trying to level his kitgun due to the fact that he's trying to do it before having moved on from Venus.

Objectively false in literally every way. My kitgun is already rank 30, and at this point I'm more than halfway done exploring the star chart. My issue is the sudden, unexpected, and out of nowhere progression brick wall between leveling a kitgun, and GILDING a kitgun so you can level it again and get MR out of it. I've said before, but to sum up; from the perspective of a new player kitguns are presented as new player items that don't contribute to MR and can't be properly customized until endgame, with nothing in between and no warning this was the case. "Craft a kitgun. Realize you can't level with it and it's just taking up a slot, sell kitgun, craft another at endgame." It isn't a very well thought out progression cycle.

My issue isn't leveling a kitgun, or crafting one, or anything like that. My issue is the arbitrary and unnecessary barrier between crafting one and "completing one" that forces you to either hold onto a dead weight weapon for a hundred hours, or...frankly....get yelled at on the forums for not psychically figuring out that they are "supposed to be endgame" in spite of them coming in the form of a glorified tutorial that is shoved in your face less than five hours into the game.

Edit: And as to all the people saying I should have known based on how hard/expensive they are to make...they are neither of those things. The fishing spear is cheaper than the ones on Earth. The "best" mining laser in the game is literally half as much as the cheapest of three lasers on Earth. The blueprints cost half or less as much to buy. The material requirements are much less. Everything spawns right there outside of Fortuna so you don't have to go hunting for it. Heck, ore on Venus is worth roughly TEN TIMES the standing as those on earth, and are super plentiful. Mine for an hour or two have have enough unneeded ore to reach your daily standing limit for a week. Crafting a kitgun is literally easy. Heck, I'd say one of the cheapest and easiest things to do in the game, at least so far.

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On 2020-02-17 at 4:15 PM, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

Not for a new player. 

Bruh, take the hint. Fortuna and the Plains aren't for new players. I know it's weird, because they're accessible so easy in the game, but just focus on finishing the main quests for now. You'll get the kind of gear and all that when you go through them. Get endo, get your basic mods like Vitality, Redirection, Serration, Pressure Point, Hornet Strike, and Point Strike up. Your three best friends when it comes to modding your primaries are going to be Serration, Split Chamber, and Vigilante Arms. If you don't have Split Chamber, you can check the wiki to find out where it drops. Or hit me up in game, I've got over a dozen just chilling in my inventory. Once you've completed the War Within quest, some powerful gear is going to open up to you.

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22 minutes ago, (PS4)Vodka_Vision_ said:

..just focus on finishing the main quests for now.

That's another thing...the game doesn't seem to actually HAVE a main guest line. There are quests, yes, and there is a story being told...sort of. But as far as a consistent narrative providing context for the experience and guiding new players through content? Nope. The "main quests" of this game just sort of pop up, unceremoniously, when you get to a specific planet, and then just go to sleep for a while. Three or four planets later they will wake up again and toss you a new objective, but even that isn't announced. Quests are buried in a sub-menu of your codex, and the only way to know you have one is to check. And they open up so far between it is easy to forget the game HAS quests at all. Its just "do this thing..okay, now leave me alone until you get to X planet in ten or twenty hours. You're on your own until then."

The more I think about it, and the more I research it and find this is exactly the case, it seems that "content" in this game is an afterthought; something patched in months or years after release to supplement the dull planetary mission structure. And that would be fine, except DE created this content from the perspective of someone who already had the full star map unlocked. Just "go here, then go here, then go here" based on what made narrative sense at the time, but that makes zero sense in terms of progression. But in practice, for a new player, its more like "go here, grind for ten hours, finally make it here, now backtrack, now grind for twenty hours, go here for one mission, then backtrack again, now to this mission on the world in between the last two steps because we forgot about it until now. Oh ignore all this, that's endgame, we just stuck it on a starting planet for no reason when narratively and via progression we could have just as easily stuck it literally anywhere else..."   

 

Edit: Seriously, why is Venus, a planet CLOSER to the sun, frozen? Why the hell isn't Fortuna on Neptune or something? Seriously DE; what the 'eff?

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On 2020-02-20 at 10:01 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And here's the fact that you probably really won't like at all: neither of us is all that special. Newbs have just as much agency as you or I did. We made it to our respective MRs, and they can too. 

One minor complaint with this- We didn't have *nearly* as many things to deal with as noobs (assuming you started playing back around launch) as they do today. I mean, you think about it, all we had was warframe grind, weapons grind, and the star chart. There was no open world, no reputations, no guilding weapons. While I'm not saying that really reduces player agency, I'm also gonna point out that when these things were introduced, we didn't run into them 'before we were supposed to'. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

Objectively false in literally every way. My kitgun is already rank 30, and at this point I'm more than halfway done exploring the star chart.

Stop. "My KiTgUn Is RaNk 30" doesn't mean anything. Most of the people on this thread could take a half ranked kitgun with the same parts, and put it next to yours and make yours look like a complete piece of crap. We have better mods than you, and a better understanding of how to come up with a powerful build.

Completing the star chart isn't the end goal you seem to think it is, it's literally a checkpoint near the beginning of your journey. It's possible for someone with experience to get it done in under 40 hours of playing if memory serves. As you go along you're supposed to hit a couple of walls that force you to learn to improve your gear. 

Also any quest you have active shows you the objectives in your navigation screen. That's not something you can pretend is "hidden" from you. 

Seriously, it looks as though you are just trying to blame the game for your own lack of attention. 

As to why Fortuna is where it is, surely you notice that PoE is on Earth. The question was answered already but let's try again and see if you can figure it out this time: They both contain later game content, but act as display pieces that tell new Tenno, "all of this can be yours, in the future, if you stick with the game and git gud". 

As to why it's frozen but close to the sun... That's rather the point, you see? It's a way to show that the Orokin were capable of amazing feats, turning the hottest planet in the solar system into a frozen planet. Get it now? 

23 minutes ago, Paradoxity said:

One minor complaint with this- We didn't have *nearly* as many things to deal with as noobs (assuming you started playing back around launch) as they do today.

That actually counters the point you're trying to make. Because they have so many options, it means that they're not barred from progression if they hit a brick wall with any given piece of content. It's a case of just needing to say "huh, guess I'll go work on any of the other half dozen things that I still need to get done". 

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