Pubs not stabbing their lich for some reason

[NuclearToast451]

"Please stab your lich so I can get more murmurs."

Why do you want murmurs? If you're such a badass lich hunter, then just fight your lich on your own, guessing all 3x8 runes until you get it right. Why are you farming in the first place?

When =I= run a murmur farm, it's because I have my runes and I want to kill my lich. And then pubbies start picking their own lich missions and complain about not getting the "right" mission to get enough murmurs. So I end up running my lich missions solo just to get him/her to spawn in order to stab.

Moral of the story: If you want it done your way, do it solo. Pubbie missions are a give-and-take situation.

[Ham_Grenabe]

27 minutes ago, NuclearToast451 said:

"Please stab your lich so I can get more murmurs."

Why do you want murmurs? If you're such a badass lich hunter, then just fight your lich on your own, guessing all 3x8 runes until you get it right. Why are you farming in the first place?

When =I= run a murmur farm, it's because I have my runes and I want to kill my lich. And then pubbies start picking their own lich missions and complain about not getting the "right" mission to get enough murmurs. So I end up running my lich missions solo just to get him/her to spawn in order to stab.

Moral of the story: If you want it done your way, do it solo. Pubbie missions are a give-and-take situation.

You can't get murmurs from someone else's lich stab anyway - only your own. You can get kuva, but not murmurs.

In fact, if you wait around and don't stab the lich, everyone gets more murmurs. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[Kaotyke]

I had someone like that once. I told them that you do not die if you get the wrong Requiem anymore.

He said he doesn't want the Lich to level up. Fair point. So we downed it until it left.

But... Don't they Rank up anyways when you finish cleaning a planet of it's influence?

[(PSN)Jason_V_Jade]

And this is one of the many reasons I refuse to create a lich(I refuse to even engage the larva), more of a headache and nothing I need or want drops from them.

But I can understand why some dislike it when players refuse to stab their lichs.

But I cant say much as I tend to only kill non-lich influenced enemies as I leave them for those hunting them as I don't need murmurs.

Though a question, is it seen as good sportsman ship to leave a lich to roam free during the mission seeing as its a pubg and not a group formed to farm lichs?

Remember not everyone actually cares about the lich system and avoids it, so by not ether soloing ir creating a private party one could argue that those with lichs should be obligated to kiling the lich immediately or join a private party to hunt them.

[Luciole77]

some mechanics in coop is just awful....startted with lichs. Nuubs dont want to kill....and in railjack nobody doing nothing just leeching.

 

Now im official solo player forever. multiplayer in warframe nowadays its more annoying than ever. Too muchs lazy players around expcting we do the job....not with me anymore!

Edited February 19, 2020 by Luciole77

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

The issue is that not clearing a lich blocks other lich spawns. So even if you don't want to attempt a requiem sequence on your lich, please be polite and down it 3 times (or let other players know so they can do it).

[Ham_Grenabe]

1 hour ago, Kaotyke said:

I had someone like that once. I told them that you do not die if you get the wrong Requiem anymore.

He said he doesn't want the Lich to level up. Fair point. So we downed it until it left.

But... Don't they Rank up anyways when you finish cleaning a planet of it's influence?

They do rank up if you clear the planet. I never clear an entire planet, but that's usually because they have some stupid mission like Disruption or Interception which I just leave alone.

My pattern is generally to stab it the first time we meet because hey, I might guess right and anyway I want it on at least two planets so I can choose easy can't-fail missions (because failing a mission because the lich one-shots the console or some crap like that, and losing all murmurs/stab progress, is the #*!%in' pits). After that, I stab it at the usual "learn a mod" stages. Mine generally end up level 4 unless I'm lucky, or level 5 if I just give up and start guessing. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[(PSN)Jason_V_Jade]

16 minutes ago, Luciole77 said:

some mechanics in coop is just awful....startted with lichs. Nuubs dont want to kill....and in railjack nobody doing nothing just leeching.

 

Now im official solo player forever. multiplayer in warframe nowadays its more annoying than ever. Too muchs lazy players around expcting we do the job....not with me anymore!

I guess I am lucky as I only ran into a very small number like that.

Only time I ever am irked is when New/trolling players waste life support at 80-90%.

Then accused of being salty when asking them to stop.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

8 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

They do rank up if you clear the planet. I never clear an entire planet, but that's usually because they have some stupid mission like Disruption or Interception which I just leave alone.

My pattern is generally to stab it the first time we meet because hey, I might guess right and anyway I want it on at least two planets so I can choose easy can't-fail missions (because failing a mission because the lich one-shots the console or some crap like that, and losing all murmurs/stab progress, is the #*!%in' pits). After that, I stab it at the usual "learn a mod" stages. Mine generally end up level 4 unless I'm lucky, or level 5 if I just give up and start guessing. 

And I just get mine to 5 as soon as possible so that they stay furious and show up all the time. I just go through my requiems in order and sometimes I get lucky. The only time I won't stab them is if I will uncover the requiem in the same mission and want to stab them on the next one, but if they are only annoyed then I stab them anyway since the next mission won't guarantee a spawn and I can start building progress on the next lich rank. I usually finish a lich in 2 hours.

[Sunai_Moonswing]

I publicly stab my liches, but in private, I don't, just because liches make a lot of thralls, eight, I think. If not more. And, they stay angry so they show up again next mission. That really speeds up murmur gathering. 

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

3 minutes ago, Sunai_Moonswing said:

I publicly stab my liches, but in private, I don't, just because liches make a lot of thralls, eight, I think. If not more. And, they stay angry so they show up again next mission. That really speeds up murmur gathering. 

Depends on the mission type and spawn location. Sometimes a map is mostly cleared when they show up and for some reason they spawn way back in the tileset so there are no enemies nearby to turn into thralls. Better to stab them and finish then hope the game has enemies spawn nearby.

[Lyricallee]

2 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Every time I decline to stab the lich, I get people trying to explain the system to me. Every damn time. I've done 37 liches, I understand intimately how the system works. Amazingly, I'm fully aware that stabbing the lich gets you 10 murmurs. I still don't always do it, and here's why:

• sometimes, I have a pain-in-the-ass lich and I don't want to deal with it at level 5
• sometimes, I'd rather not risk turning a resistance into an immunity or ending up with a lich full of immunities
• sometimes, I don't want to waste a guess when I'm a couple murmurs away from getting the next mod reveal 
• sometimes, I realize I forgot to modify my parazon and there's no point to wasting the stab because I know it will be wrong

I'd much rather wait for someone to down their lich three times than watch someone blitz a Lich capture and net us all of THREE damn thralls. Patience is a virtue. 

I think there are many valid points in this thread and some of them are valid and also contrary to each other.  There are people in the missions who are murmur focused and people who are at a stage they are Lich kill focused.  You validly may not want to kill your Lich for your stated reasons, but as long as your Lich lives, mine isn't going to appear.  Leaving your Lich alive is depriving squad members who Need new planets or need to kill the Lich to verify mod order of their chance at it.  There must be a way the system could be tweaked to make it easier for groups with these differing needs co-exist more peacefully.  At the least, I feel like the Lich should start out holding at least 2 planets to give solo players (and really, everyone) a better choice of missions. I mainly solo the missions now because I somehow get stuck with people who run for the exit in capture and exterminate missions as soon as it appears so neither the full available murmurs nor the Lich's spawn.  Also a joy are the defenses and survivals where someone leaves their lich alive or its just me and one other person who dies every 3 seconds or an interception where my teammate ditches last minute and I have to try to hold 3 towers and kill my Lich.  (it was my last mission on my only planet) You can also have someone vanquish their Lich right at the beginning and they have no motivation to help or continue, so there should be some benefit to murmurs even after your personal Lich is defeated.  I hope DE keeps looking at the feedback and the stats on the missions and refines how they work.  I feel like the system has improved, just needs some more refinement.

[Ham_Grenabe]

@Lyricallee, I didn't mean I'd ignore it - just that I won't try to parazon it. Down it 3 times, absolutely. People don't even have to hang around for that; I'll take care of it myself. 

I've never seen anyone just ignore their lich and leave it up and roaming. I've seen plenty of people who do the Down 3 Times thing, which is absolutely fine with me. I can wait that long.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[(PSN)zenhumphrey]

6 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

I had someone like that once. I told them that you do not die if you get the wrong Requiem anymore.

He said he doesn't want the Lich to level up. Fair point. So we downed it until it left.

But... Don't they Rank up anyways when you finish cleaning a planet of it's influence?

If you leave em alone they don't rank up but their rage will carry on so they'll spawn more often unless you stab him to take the anger away

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

14 hours ago, (PS4)zenhumphrey said:

Ok so, I've read ALOT of tenno in the forums complaining about pubs in murmur farm not stabbing thier lich for a sweet murmur boost and I agree, I also want the players in my squad to stab their lich to make the farm faster but some players just do not want to, why? either A) they can't handle their lich at level 5 or B) they probably don't know stabbing your lich gives a boost.
Let's say you went into a squad for murmur farming and then one of the player's lich spawned, the whole squad is waiting and expecting that player to stab their lich but he/she didn't, you ask why waste such an opportunity and they say they don't wanna make their lich harder. If you are a player who does not stab your lich for this reason then, PLEASE seek help from other players or get some better gear to kick your lich's butt. Liches were meant to be difficult, so if you can't handle the difficult task please get better gear or ask a friend or someone to help you defeat the lich, you are making the farm much slower and making the goal take much longer than unusual, Iam not calling anyone who can't handle their lich a bad player, I'm just saying that if you can't handle a difficult task then find a better solution to it, also don't be toxic about people who stabs/tells you to stab your lich. Lastly if you are a player who CAN handle a lich but thinks stabbing them won't give any benefit then you are totally wrong. Stabbing your lich with the wrong/without a requiem gives you a high murmur boost that will make the farm faster in the cost of making it harder. Also if your lich did spawn don't kill it yet! Liches will convert a grineer near it to a thrall, the lich will normally convert 5-10 grineer into thralls, this is also a big boost on your murmur farm but it will just make the mission a little bit longer. 

I've solo'd about 15 liches so far and those types of players are mostly the reason for it. I did try farming with squad but been encountering those players too often.


EDIT:

uhm ok so I've been getting alot of backlash about the post and i just wanna clear out some things

1. I don't actually want to force any player to play in a specific play style.

2. I'm not trying to be toxic to other players 

3. I'm TRYING to say that liches CAN be dealt with a group and some people do want to help you if a level 5 lich keeps kicking your butt. I just think that stabbing your lich is a really helpful way of speeding the process of murmur farm and if you don't have the time to get better gear then players are always there to help

4. I'm not "complaining" about players not stabbing their lich, I just want other players to know that stabbing your own lich will give a benefit for the squad.

Lastly, I'm not hating on the players that don't stab their lich, I don't see them as annoying players that don't know how to play the game, just people who are struggling to do the difficult task and went into the easy path because that's all they can handle for now, again, I'm NOT trying to be toxic to those players.

sorry if i sounded toxic but I'm really not trying to.

It is always the correct decision to stab your lich. Always. No exceptions. People can play the game wrong if they want to so dont bother telling me "omg you want to force people to whatever l" but there is no reason not to.

You get kuva. You get murmur progress. Your squad gets both. Even if you dont even have the requiem mods you should still do it. 

 

"BuT i CaNt HaNdLe A lEvEl FiVe LiCH" well jokes on you because even if you dont stab it until you get to rank 3 murmur completion you're gonna probably fail multiple times anyways. There are more than enough frames and weapons that can face tank and spank kuva liches. Git good.

[Ham_Grenabe]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

You get kuva. You get murmur progress. Your squad gets both. Even if you dont even have the requiem mods you should still do it. 

I've seen this a couple times now - was that changed in a recent patch? As far as I was aware, the squad gets no bonus murmurs if you stab your lich. Only you do (which is why I'm like, stab it, don't stab it, it doesn't affect me much). If however I can get bonus murmurs from someone else's failed stab, then I may change my mind about what the correct way to play is, and join the people who believe in all stabbing, all the time.

If not, then the squad can live without their 150 kuva and no bonus murmurs. 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[xcrimsonlegendx]

I stab my lich every time regardless, its just polite to give the entire squad free kuva.

Plus its just faster to get the free murmur progress and try to brute force the requiem combo, a little luck and you can take them out pretty fast.

Edited February 20, 2020 by xcrimsonlegendx

[Althaline]

4 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

It is always the correct decision to stab your lich. Always. No exceptions.

Exceptions time!

Did you know that you get the Lich's full Kuva drop from every stab? Therefore if you know the first 2 before your first attempt, you can get triple the Kuva (not that this is a particularly efficient method to gaining Kuva).

Did you know that while a Lich will give you 10 murmurs for stabbing it, those murmurs will not transfer to a 2nd Requiem if you finish the first?

4 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

"BuT i CaNt HaNdLe A lEvEl FiVe LiCH"

I can totally handle a level 5 Lich. The thing is, pumping 100 rounds out of RubicoP into the face of a giggling, bouncing/teleporting lunatic while abusing Vazarin's Protective Dash isn't my idea of fun (and yet I end up doing it anyway, because I have no self-control).

[(PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO]

2 hours ago, Iamabearlulz said:

Exceptions time!

Did you know that you get the Lich's full Kuva drop from every stab? Therefore if you know the first 2 before your first attempt, you can get triple the Kuva (not that this is a particularly efficient method to gaining Kuva).

Did you know that while a Lich will give you 10 murmurs for stabbing it, those murmurs will not transfer to a 2nd Requiem if you finish the first?

I can totally handle a level 5 Lich. The thing is, pumping 100 rounds out of RubicoP into the face of a giggling, bouncing/teleporting lunatic while abusing Vazarin's Protective Dash isn't my idea of fun (and yet I end up doing it anyway, because I have no self-control).

Also, if you're in the verge of finding the 3rd requiem you're better of not stabbing because it's rage meter will go down to zero, in this case the best thing is take it down 3 times, with an additional mission discover the 3rd requiem and with the rage meter full run 1 or 2 solo missions and be done with it. There is no right or wrong way to play this, it's a matter of time management really. 

[Travis05]

i understand people want to minimize the time wasted. So they try to find solutions to optimize the murmur farm.

Honestly i dont care much about how the system works. i stab him everytime and i dont mind if im using my time well or not. Usually a level 5 lich will be killed thanks to my teammates. I admit im too weak to deal with a level 5 alone. But well...they help me with my lich and I help them with theirs as much as i can, even if i cant make much damage.

I understand some people care more about the game and optimizing time though. Or they dont want to rely on random people. But until now i hadnt problems. Its fun to have something challenging and overwhelming for a change.

[Chicken-Biryani]

20 hours ago, (PS4)zenhumphrey said:

got alot of hate for my post

That's the norm here. Whatever you do, someone out there will laugh at you. 😅

[Chicken-Biryani]

7 hours ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

I stab my lich every time regardless, its just polite to give the entire squad free kuva.

You sir are a treasure! 🙏💪👍

[Althaline]

1 hour ago, (PS4)TONI__RIBEIRO said:

Also, if you're in the verge of finding the 3rd requiem you're better of not stabbing because it's rage meter will go down to zero, in this case the best thing is take it down 3 times, with an additional mission discover the 3rd requiem and with the rage meter full run 1 or 2 solo missions and be done with it. There is no right or wrong way to play this, it's a matter of time management really. 

Fun fact: Level 5 Liches don't lose rage, as far as I can tell. If your Lich is already 5, may as well shank it a bit.

[LittleMooer]

Just play solo 😕

[RunningChaos]

20 hours ago, (PS4)zenhumphrey said:

woah there, "noobs" shouldn't really be "kept away" from the lich content. Like everyone else said, solo gameplay is there for you or even your clan members/friends who have the same skill level as you. 

Why not? Most other games have some kind of level wall for latter game content. Can't help if DE is to scared to upset the noobs, but don't care about the veterans. There's enough other activities in WF to keep them busy until they're good enough to take on a lvl 5 Lich. If for some reason they did everything else in WF and still can't handle a lvl 5 Lich, tough sh*t.