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Please give me a way to dispose of unwanted Liches...

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So I accidentally killed a lich lava... and am stuck with a lich I have no desire to spend 4+ hours grinding for another crappy Drakgoon i will never use.

Please ...please, please give me an option to dump this stupid lich and forgo the excruciating grind to achieve NOTHING.

 

 

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Dumping Liches would be nice. However in the mean time, you could use some awareness and not accidentally stab one again. It's one of those mistakes that should only happen once.

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Don't bother with it until they make the grind actually rewarding? I made that mistake after mindlessly mowing and aborting 10+ times even alt F4ed during the animation and nope still forced it on me.

Just here checking to see if they made it more rewarding with the recent patch and that's a big no. Going to quote most of the forums "go play something else if you don't like it" yep doing just that. (still gotta rack up that daily login though)

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Does that lich have ephemera? If not, you still have material for upgrading your drakgoon to 60% and that thing is deadly with fomorian accelerant

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"Dumping Liches would be nice. However in the mean time, you could use some awareness and not accidentally stab one again. It's one of those mistakes that should only happen once. "

Well after spending the the previous 2 hours murmur farming, I was slightly Zombie-fied pressing X on a anything with a red mark on its head. My fault, but making a simple mistake should not be so punishing...

 

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53 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Dumping Liches would be nice. However in the mean time, you could use some awareness and not accidentally stab one again. It's one of those mistakes that should only happen once.

Or DE could have maybe not attached the mechanism for "accepting" Liches to a generic kill QTE that is probably muscle memory for a fair chunk of the playerbase and can randomly saddle you with a Lich if you aren't watching it like a hawk. 

Meaning the only way to avoid the Lich mechanic is to completely avoid yet another Warframe mechanic. Just ya know never go in for that "spiffy" murder animation they added to the game. 

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36 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Meaning the only way to avoid the Lich mechanic is to completely avoid yet another Warframe mechanic. 

I want lich dumping, full disclosure.

That said, the game has your screen flash, and has a big fatty start talking to you when a Larvling appears, and the Larvling gets a red hexagon icon on the map and UI pointing to it... things that are not part of the standard parazon mechanic.  I don't really understand how this mistake can happen considering the game lets you know in 3 different ways that a Larvling is around.  Awareness is a big part of this.  I've done 15+ liches now and I've never accidentally killed a larvling anytime I didn't want a lich.  And I use the Parazon quite a lot in normal combat.

This reminds me of another thread where the guy was saying he didn't even know his Lich was spawning when he has the exact same 3 distinct cues to let him know... people just aren't paying attention and that is their problem, rather than a problem with the design.  Parazon usage for Larvlings is not an issue unless you yourself make it one.  

Edited by (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z
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3 minutes ago, (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z said:

I want lich dumping, full disclosure.

That said, the game has your screen flash, and has a big fatty start talking to you when a Larvling appears, something that is not part of the standard mechanic.  I don't really understand how this mistake can happen considering the game lets you know in 2 different ways that a Larvling is around - 2 different cues that don't happen anywhere in the game but where Larvlings are.  Awareness is a big part of this.  I've done 15+ liches now and I've never accidentally killed a larvling anytime I didn't want a lich.  And I use the Parazon quite a lot in normal combat.

The flashing again is used in any number of other invasions, stalker, zenuka, Grustag, (insert random syndicate). It's pretty much a generic "hey SOMETHING is happening" indicator that's been reused in the game to the point that it really doesn't tell the player much on it's own. 

Yes the Kuva Guardian does come in and say "Yo dawg, kuva kuva kuva" 

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z said:

This reminds me of another thread where the guy was saying he didn't even know his Lich was spawning when he has 3 distinct cues to let him know...

Again there are not three distinct cues, two of the cues can be encountered normally throughout the game unrelated to larvaling/lich shenanigans. 

  • The Flash, any number of generic (something just happened or is about to happen) encounters 
  • The kill prompt, literally any enemy in the game that is at 5%(?) health 

Leaving the only actual major onscreen prompt that it is actually a larvaling you have to look out for and that being the kuva guardian announcement. Not really sure if the larvaling has already spawned at that point or not, I'd stopped playing Grineer levels until they added the shanking "option" and pretty much kill things fast enough that nothing is ever at 5% long enough to really display the "shank me daddy" icon. 

However I respect the fact that other player might kill slower and actually enjoy indulging in said prompt on the regular. 

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z said:

At some point user error is just user error, and not actually a problem with the design.  This is one such case.

When you implement a system where the users can error the problem is design. 

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1 hour ago, Oreades said:

The flashing again is used in any number of other invasions, stalker, zenuka, Grustag, (insert random syndicate). It's pretty much a generic "hey SOMETHING is happening" indicator that's been reused in the game to the point that it really doesn't tell the player much on it's own. 

Yes the Kuva Guardian does come in and say "Yo dawg, kuva kuva kuva" 

Again there are not three distinct cues, two of the cues can be encountered normally throughout the game unrelated to larvaling/lich shenanigans. 

  • The Flash, any number of generic (something just happened or is about to happen) encounters 
  • The kill prompt, literally any enemy in the game that is at 5%(?) health 

Leaving the only actual major onscreen prompt that it is actually a larvaling you have to look out for and that being the kuva guardian announcement. Not really sure if the larvaling has already spawned at that point or not, I'd stopped playing Grineer levels until they added the shanking "option" and pretty much kill things fast enough that nothing is ever at 5% long enough to really display the "shank me daddy" icon. 

However I respect the fact that other player might kill slower and actually enjoy indulging in said prompt on the regular. 

When you implement a system where the users can error the problem is design. 

The flash (1) is still an indication that you should look for the Kuva Guardians messages (2) at which point the map and UI marker appear (3).  Yeah you can encounter those cues in different areas in the game - but not all 3 combined like that, mainly because of the red hexagon only a blind person could miss, no other assassin gets that.  The UI and Map marker doesn't go away until you kill the larvling so your whole claim about not being "really sure" if it spawned or not is silly.  Again, pay attention.

Liches actually have a 4th in that their health bar also takes up 10% of the screen.

A user can error into a million things by spamming buttons - it's still the player's fault.  Just like people who sit in the foundry spamming the X button or whatever the PC equivalent is, only to end up "accidentally" rushing something they didn't want to for plat.  It's not a design issue at all.  You can't make every system dummy proof, because somebody will always find a new and dumb way to mess it up - i.e. not paying attention to 3 major cues happening all at once.

The reality is there's no way to accidentally execute a larveling if you are paying attention to the game, sorry to tell you that, but it's true.  

By the way somebody needs to explain this to you.  Distinct and unique are not the same thing, I'm not saying the cues are unique - but they are distinct.  Something distinct is something that sticks out compared to what is the normal.  Flashing screens and voiced dialogues right after are not part of every mission by default - and the entire purpose of them is to draw your attention to them.  They are special in-mission events... not normal standard gameplay functions.  That makes them, by definition, distinct... so again... pay attention?

Edited by (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z
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Is there any way to dispose of converted liches? Can I dissolve this Upargg Nott into kuva or something? I thought he was funny at first but now he's just annoying.

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unfortunate as it is, you MUST be on your guard when you're doing missions where Larvligns appear, especially if you just cam back from a Murmur farm yourself. but since people are still MUDAMUDAMUDAing Larvlings, I propose the following:

- when you down a larvling and press the button to stab, it puts you in the "decision mode" sequence, like when you are deciding whether to Vanquish or Convert your Lich. the options would instead be "Abandon" or "Progenate". as with the Vanquish/Convert decision, you must actively hold the button to make your choice. as a further aid, a larger picture of the weapon this Lich will spawn with appears in the middle of the screen (and ideally, a symbol for a confirmed Ephemera spawn as well)

- selecting Abandon is what you do if you do NOT want the Lich. the Larvling will drop dead and cannot be stabbed now. 

-selecting Progenate makes you stab the Larvling with the Parazon, triggering the usual animation sequence. when you return from your mission, your Lich will rise, as normal. 

this is about as idiot-proof as the system could possibly be made, if you still get unwanted Liches after that, then it really is a "you" problem.

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6 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

Is there any way to dispose of converted liches? Can I dissolve this Upargg Nott into kuva or something? I thought he was funny at first but now he's just annoying.

you can trade them with another player in your dojo, provided you have a Crimson Branch room. that's it though. 

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Being able to lich dump throws a really rough wrench into the works. It gives you the opportunity to re-roll the weapon boost of the spawned lich or potentially re-roll for an ephemera. 

Basically, if the lich doesn't have what you are looking for, just dump it and go back to minute long capture missions until you get it.

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28 minutes ago, Deadoon said:

Being able to lich dump throws a really rough wrench into the works. It gives you the opportunity to re-roll the weapon boost of the spawned lich or potentially re-roll for an ephemera. 

Basically, if the lich doesn't have what you are looking for, just dump it and go back to minute long capture missions until you get it.

There's easy solutions:
1. The next Lich after a disposed Lich can NEVER have an Ephemera, so no disposing over and over to cheese it.
2. The next Lich might have a different weapon and element based on progenitor, but will have the exact same % bonus on the damage.

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1 hour ago, Deadoon said:

Being able to lich dump throws a really rough wrench into the works. It gives you the opportunity to re-roll the weapon boost of the spawned lich or potentially re-roll for an ephemera. 

Basically, if the lich doesn't have what you are looking for, just dump it and go back to minute long capture missions until you get it.

We have that already, this is why our larvaling waves some stupid poster of it's weapon in our faces so we don't waste time grinding a weapon we already have unless we want to.

This entire "Nemesis" system has become a joke just like Lunaro. It's nothing like the system that [DE]Steve promised us. Pretty much like everything that [DE]Steve has promised us recently.

What the game needed wasn't a short cut to seeing what weapon the Lich will have it was just a way to remove a Lich.

Imagine you get a useless lich, a bad weapon with a low roll stat, no ephemera and a face to curdle milk. Now, imaging a sortie style mission on Kuva Fortress that ends with you defending a machine that will give you a single use parazon mod that will destroy your lich once you down it but, at the same time give you no reward for doing so. 

Boom!  your Lich is gone, you can now make a new Lich, and it's all been something that's brought more gameplay, not just peering at a picture and saying "Nah, sorry mate I don't need another Kuva Seer"

More game content, happy players because they got what they wanted, happy DE because less players are complaining on the forums about grinding unwanted liches and lack of content.

It's Win Win! 

Make it so DE, make it so!

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Screen flashing, a message coming from a Kuva Guardian, a constant map marker, and an enemy that has an altered appearance and sounds from other enemies.

I'm sorry but if anyone is so zoned out while playing that "muscle memory" causes you to blank out all of those indicators I think the proper solution is for you to do something else and not for DE to waste time making a dumping mechanic. This is the same level as people wasting 5+ Forma and a Catalyst from not reading the Valence screens.

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7 hours ago, (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z said:

I want lich dumping

... You really don't want a lich dumping. Just the smell of it would kill you in the process.

Edited by Uhkretor
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It would be totally pointless since we have already a bunch of signs for the larvings.

Maybe a hold x to kill function would be better.

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I had a larvaling die on the seam between 2 tiles in a doorway. The new tooltip for the weapon wouldn't show from any angle so I just thought it was a melee finisher. Fml

 

 

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12 hours ago, (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z said:

The flash (1) is still an indication that you should look for the Kuva Guardians messages (2) at which point the map and UI marker appear (3).  Yeah you can encounter those cues in different areas in the game - but not all 3 combined like that, mainly because of the red hexagon only a blind person could miss, no other assassin gets that.  The UI and Map marker doesn't go away until you kill the larvling so your whole claim about not being "really sure" if it spawned or not is silly.  Again, pay attention.

Liches actually have a 4th in that their health bar also takes up 10% of the screen.

A user can error into a million things by spamming buttons - it's still the player's fault.  Just like people who sit in the foundry spamming the X button or whatever the PC equivalent is, only to end up "accidentally" rushing something they didn't want to for plat.  It's not a design issue at all.  You can't make every system dummy proof, because somebody will always find a new and dumb way to mess it up - i.e. not paying attention to 3 major cues happening all at once.

The reality is there's no way to accidentally execute a larveling if you are paying attention to the game, sorry to tell you that, but it's true.  

By the way somebody needs to explain this to you.  Distinct and unique are not the same thing, I'm not saying the cues are unique - but they are distinct.  Something distinct is something that sticks out compared to what is the normal.  Flashing screens and voiced dialogues right after are not part of every mission by default - and the entire purpose of them is to draw your attention to them.  They are special in-mission events... not normal standard gameplay functions.  That makes them, by definition, distinct... so again... pay attention?

Ahh and the argument continues to be a combination of generic cues are good enough and It's the players fault~ 

Ahh yes DE couldn't possibly create a system that was idiot proof, that's impossible~ I mean it isn't like they couldn't have just given the Lich assignment to Paladina (along with a HECCIN fast travel system for iron whatever it's called). That way when you actually want to make a Lich you go out of your way to talk to an NPC who tells you about Grineer commanders (liches) who are causing trouble in the system. 

So lets see..... 

  1. Play a fast paced game and just know that the flash you saw wasn't any number of other possible things and the generic cue you got to preform a finisher wasn't just a low health enemy. 
  2. Go to a specific non combat node, Talk to an NPC, Select and confirm that you want to undertake a Lich operation**

Hmmm yeah totally no way they could have made this idiot proof.... oh wait.... yeah there kinda is... 

 

by the way non unique cues are next to useless.

 

**Use a heccin token system to allow the players to claim whatever weapon/element type they want, thus eliminating any issue with "dud" liches because at that point the weapon your Lich spawns with does not matter. 

 

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1 minute ago, Oreades said:

by the way non unique cues are next to useless.

Pretty sure the kuva guardian saying things along the lines of, go forth and kill the Tenno or die trying, and having that not show anywhere but when a larvling spawns is pretty unique.

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19 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

Pretty sure the kuva guardian saying things along the lines of, go forth and kill the Tenno or die trying, and having that not show anywhere but when a larvling spawns is pretty unique.

Yeah that is the one cue that is semi useful however the cue that comes before it (the flash) and the cue that comes after it (the murder prompt) arguably the more important of any of them. are both generic. Which is the problem when we're talking about a system that's going to saddle you with a 2+hr grindfest to correct. 

Personally speaking I'm not 100% sure if the Lichlet spawns before the Guardian prompt or not, I personally can't be asked to preform finishers mercies murder animations because I kill things to quickly. Which actually makes this an even bigger problem for lower level players because they're going to be seeing those murder prompts more frequently and thus be more incline to be all "OH COOL! I can preform an awesome finisher!!!1!" without thinking "Oh shiz, the kuva guardian, better ignore those prompts for the rest of the level!" 

Tho even if they are thinking about the Lich and how they DO NOT WANT one, there is still the very real possibility that they click it out of sheer muscle memory because ZOMG spiff animation!

It's just a bad mechanic strait up, DE keeps trying to make it less bad but it just really does not belong as a "mid mission" surprise because as long as it remains as such this is going to be a continual problem for both the players and the developers. 

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