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JackHargreav

I don't like the sentients (Edited)

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11 minutes ago, (XB1)anonymousx6x said:

Only need to do it twice at most. Magus Lockdown and I bring a loadout for mission type. 

See, what I'd really like is for them to just give in and allow use of operator powers (dash, void mode, amp blast, etc.) without having to actually go into Operator mode. As others have mentioned, I find it such a break in the flow of play. 

Operator mode as a thing should stay, obviously, but if I could map a quick dash-and-return kind of thing I'd be stoked. And without using macros, because they're unreliable unless I'm hosting.

(besides, can you imagine the conversations among the enemy? "Did that Tenno just knock out a Kuva Guardian by...hurling a small child at him?")

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1 minute ago, Corvid said:

It's unreliable. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I've had cases where my sword swings horizontally through their midsection and fails to register a hit, even though it blatantly passed through their model.

strange, didn't noticed, maybe cause i use Kohm blender or Paracesis Sundered Tusk

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10 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Not helped by the fact that despite their varied weapons, there's only one real way to effectively fight them which doesn't vary from foe to foe: Lock them in place with CC, shoot or hit them until they adapt, reset adaptation, rinse repeat ad nauseum. They aren't a challenging fight, they're the worst excesses of tedious enemy design that the game has to offer.

Or, don't CC them? I don't bother most of the time when I'm messing around on Lua or Jupiter. I can shoot them fine.

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1 minute ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

See, what I'd really like is for them to just give in and add the operator powers (dash, void mode, amp blast) without having to actually go into Operator mode. As others have mentioned, I find it such a break in the flow of play. 

How would you add those in? I get that PC has plenty of unused inputs, but consider consoles. And the fact that warframes can't channel the void.

It just kinda, doesn't make sense.

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

How would you add those in? I get that PC has plenty of unused inputs, but consider consoles. And the fact that warframes can't channel the void.

It just kinda, doesn't make sense.

I used to play on console, it would definitely be a problem there. For me I'd just map 5, 6, 7, 8 etc. as needed, but yes, you're right about consoles. 

As far as the "can't channel the void" part, lore always takes a backseat to better gameplay for me so I'd be like "Oh, they can't? Hm. Have to fix that in post." and then bamf through a sentient or something.

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2 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

See, what I'd really like is for them to just give in and add the operator powers (dash, void mode, amp blast) without having to actually go into Operator mode. As others have mentioned, I find it such a break in the flow of play. 

Dash I use since I change position and break their resistance. Void mode I use only when I'm outnumbered in close combat. Amp blast I can agree to an extent. But not going into operator mode? Come on, you can't be serious? It's really not that bad. Sometimes I want to see others play just to point out what they can do better. It's usually a very very small fix to add to your gameplay. 

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8 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Or, don't CC them? I don't bother most of the time when I'm messing around on Lua or Jupiter. I can shoot them fine.

In that case I do the same. CCing them is not worth the time it takes to just kill them. 

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2 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

I used to play on console, it would definitely be a problem there. For me I'd just map 5, 6, 7, 8 etc. as needed, but yes, you're right about consoles. 

As far as the "can't channel the void" part, lore always takes a backseat to better gameplay for me so I'd be like "Oh, they can't? Hm. Have to fix that in post." and then bamf through a sentient or something.

The lore issue is more difficult to fix than just that. Theres lots of lines about how only the Tenno can wield the void naturally, so unless we got a Janus key from everyone's favorite mini-boss it wouldn't work. 

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17 hours ago, Kalvorax said:

DE gave us the paracesis and now the shedu both of which have the ability to remove the adaptation, with the shedu being an AOE burst.....oh no we have to use weapons DESIGNED to fight them..........

Who knows, maybe Operators will actually be worthwhile soon(tm). I for one never really use them except for derelict runs and the rare eidolon capture (because i hate them time wait)

Don't forget that the Operator Amp also strips their adaption 

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3 minutes ago, (XB1)anonymousx6x said:

Dash I use since I change position and break their resistance. Void mode I use only when I'm outnumbered in close combat. Amp blast I can agree to an extent. But not going into operator mode? Come on, you can't be serious? It's really not that bad. Sometimes I want to see others play just to point out what they can do better. It's usually a very very small fix to add to your gameplay. 

Believe me, I use Operator mode all the time. It's beginning to really grate on me, since it's like 100% not what I enjoy about this game. Like Railjack, it's becoming a "Hey, you like Warframe? Let's do something almost but not quite entirely unlike that now!" kind of tradeoff now. 

My operator is extremely powerful and does all kinds of amazing stuff and yet I really wish Shinji could just stay in the goddamned robot. 

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Or, don't CC them? I don't bother most of the time when I'm messing around on Lua or Jupiter. I can shoot them fine.

I'm mostly talking Veil level.

Still, even if you take out the CC, it doesn't make them any more interesting to fight. They're just floating bullet sponges.

1 minute ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

How would you add those in? I get that PC has plenty of unused inputs, but consider consoles.

Perhaps holding the Operator button would put you into a temporary "Void Surge" mode. Switch the Bullet jump for a linear teleport (after all, they use the same input combo), and add the Resistance Stripping effect to melee attacks. Give it a cooldown as a trade off for not having to switch to Operator.

8 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

And the fact that warframes can't channel the void.

Erm... channeling the void is kind of what Warframes are built for. It's how our powers work.

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1 minute ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Believe me, I use Operator mode all the time. It's beginning to really grate on me, since it's like 100% not what I enjoy about this game. Like Railjack, it's becoming a "Hey, you like Warframe? Let's do something almost but not quite entirely unlike that now!" kind of tradeoff now. 

My operator is extremely powerful and does all kinds of amazing stuff and yet I really wish Shinji could just stay in the goddamned robot. 

That's why I'm looking forward to Duviri tbh, so I can actually use guns with the operator. They won't be able to do bullet jumps, but I could see void dash being just as, if not more useful.

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1 minute ago, Corvid said:

I'm mostly talking Veil level.

Veil level, CC would be necessary to stop the massive amount of damage they can put out, so that is fair.

1 minute ago, Corvid said:

Perhaps holding the Operator button would put you into a temporary "Void Surge" mode. Switch the Bullet jump for a linear teleport (after all, they use the same input combo), and add the Resistance Stripping effect to melee attacks. Give it a cooldown as a trade off for not having to switch to Operator.

The teleport I'm all for, I could see that being a very interesting way to chain together movement, melee strip would make the Paracesis less special. Maybe the strip would only be on a heavy attack so that the 'Sentient slayer' can remain unique

1 minute ago, Corvid said:

Erm... channeling the void is kind of what Warframes are built for. It's how our powers work.

I completely overlooked that fact, so thank you for correcting me. I'm not double checking with the wiki right now, so if make any more mistakes, apologies in advance.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

That's why I'm looking forward to Duviri tbh, so I can actually use guns with the operator. They won't be able to do bullet jumps, but I could see void dash being just as, if not more useful.

That might be worth trying out. 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

melee strip would make the Paracesis less special.

One weapon being a bit less special vs all others becoming more viable. That's a trade off I'm willing to make.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Maybe the strip would only be on a heavy attack so that the 'Sentient slayer' can remain unique

Still, I'd agree that this would be a good compromise.

3 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

I completely overlooked that fact, so thank you for correcting me. I'm not double checking with the wiki right now, so if make any more mistakes, apologies in advance.

Hey, no worries. Warframe's lore can be a bit tangled, I just happen to have focused on it enough that I can recall these things as needed.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Because, say it with me, they are the major antagonist.

I don't mind them being the major antagonist, I mind them being, say it with me, a major pain in the a** to fight.

1 hour ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

You have been provided with reasons, in lore, that prevent an 'other way around' from existing. DE has provided you with weapons that present a 'other way around'. You can vary your builds so that your weapons deal different damage types, that is a viable 'other way around'. There are options.

You say that, and yet the "other way around" continues to exist regardless. I don't give a rat's a** about DE's lore that's been retconned a dozen times already, they can retcon it one more time to something that's actually conducive to good gameplay. Or just ignore it like they've also done numerous times in the past.

1 hour ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

So making the other enemy factions an actual threat will make the game die? Really?

No, try reading what I actually wrote: If there's anything that would 100% make me drop warframe, it would be having to go to the arsenal to reshuffle the mods on all my gear before every mission. If the rumored damage rework equalizes the factions and forces us to actually keep swapping elemental combos all the time, this game is dead.

Not a word in there about "making other factions an actual threat". It's all about the annoyance of having to reshuffle mods all the time. If you want to have a serious discussion, you need to learn to respond to what people are actually saying, not a caricature of it that you find easy to refute.

1 hour ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

you're just too lazy to actively build your weapons so that you can skip the parts you want to.

Of course I'm lazy. If I wasn't lazy, I wouldn't be playing a videogame at all, I'd be doing something productive instead. The issue isn't building weapons, the issue is having to go back and manually swap those builds that I made years ago back and forth every five minutes. That would be annoying, and again, entertainment products are not supposed to elicit annoyance.

1 hour ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

How much time have you actually put into your Operator? Arcanes, abilities, way-bounds all grant different possibilities. Zenurik leads to a jack of all trades, Madurai for high damage, Unairu for a more offensive support structure, Vazarin for a supportive Operator, and Naramon for speed and melee focused combat. Unairu's Armour strip is actually more effective than a lot of other options, and is surprisingly powerful.

I have everything there is to have, that's why I can confidently say Operators are garbage. What you wrote may have been the original intention the devs had, in reality you run Zenurik 99% of the time except for frames that don't need energy regen (mostly Inaros, technically Hildryn but there's no reason to ever play her).

1 hour ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Again, you have more options, but you are clearly too ignorant and lazy to actually make use of them. The operator is the easiest, quickest method that interferes least with your gameplay

Right, I don't like operators because they interfere with the gameplay, and your solution is to offer me other options that interfere with the gameplay even more? Genius. That's some big brain logic right there.

1 hour ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

because those options require "swapping elemental combos" I assume they're out too

Yeah, because I can't be a**ed anymore. I've played this game for too long to find elemental combo swapping to be entertaining, it's become nothing more than an annoying chore. I want to shoot dudes in the face, not grind the modding menu.

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4 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

 

6 hours ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

So making the other enemy factions an actual threat will make the game die? Really?

No, try reading what I actually wrote: If there's anything that would 100% make me drop warframe, it would be having to go to the arsenal to reshuffle the mods on all my gear before every mission. If the rumored damage rework equalizes the factions and forces us to actually keep swapping elemental combos all the time, this game is dead.

Not a word in there about "making other factions an actual threat". It's all about the annoyance of having to reshuffle mods all the time. If you want to have a serious discussion, you need to learn to respond to what people are actually saying, not a caricature of it that you find easy to refute.

Wow, almost like actually playing a game.

Normal players do have weapons/setups that they use for different factions. I'm sorry, It's really stupid that someone can just run around with an Ignis and auto-kill everything. There are even frame abilities that do that easier.

I want to have something that's a challenge. I'd like for setups to mean something. If you'd rather have a game that practically play itself without having to think or interact with anything, go watch Twitch instead (video games might not be for you). Games are meant to be played, not played for you while you watch.

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4 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

No, try reading what I actually wrote: If there's anything that would 100% make me drop warframe, it would be having to go to the arsenal to reshuffle the mods on all my gear before every mission. If the rumored damage rework equalizes the factions and forces us to actually keep swapping elemental combos all the time, this game is dead.

Not a word in there about "making other factions an actual threat". It's all about the annoyance of having to reshuffle mods all the time. If you want to have a serious discussion, you need to learn to respond to what people are actually saying, not a caricature of it that you find easy to refute.

Wait u now actually have to start thinking about the mods and builds u have instead of using the same 1 build for everything in the game? It's almost like u actually have to use the warframe modding system for once 

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6 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

See, what I'd really like is for them to just give in and allow use of operator powers (dash, void mode, amp blast, etc.) without having to actually go into Operator mode. As others have mentioned, I find it such a break in the flow of play. 

Operator mode as a thing should stay, obviously, but if I could map a quick dash-and-return kind of thing I'd be stoked. And without using macros, because they're unreliable unless I'm hosting.

(besides, can you imagine the conversations among the enemy? "Did that Tenno just knock out a Kuva Guardian by...hurling a small child at him?")

Is transference harder on PC or something? I keep seeing this "break in flow" saying and I'm having a hard time understanding.

On console, depending on your controller setup I guess....transference for me is simple. It's just like using an ability.

I even binded my buttons in a way that makes it so I don't have to hold the crouch button to stay in stealth mode. I simply press jump or X to dash and control my movement with the L and R joysticks.

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1 hour ago, akrid45 said:

Wait u now actually have to start thinking about the mods and builds u have instead of using the same 1 build for everything in the game? It's almost like u actually have to use the warframe modding system for once 

To be fair DE wants to implement this really late.

I don't have much against the idea but it will be the same thing as it was. There will be a meta for every faction and that's it.

I'd like it a lot more if they would just scrap the idea of modding but that is also kinda late at this point. And it would come with more complaining.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Is transference harder on PC or something? I keep seeing this "break in flow" saying and I'm having a hard time understanding.

No. You just push a button (for me, "5") and turn into a really slow and awkward emo warframe that looks like some teenage delinquent (and don't get me wrong, I play dress-up-the-delinquent like everyone else; I mean, how can you NOT want all those piercings). 

What I don't get is how people don't feel like that's a jarring transition. I mean, I've done it a bazillion times, but it's just "Playing my warframe aaaaaaand....now I'm a gawky child quick-back-to-warframe." The operator is useful, absolutely. Free energy, magus lockdown, on-demand healing. But it's so goofy

I suppose there's just players who like or dislike the Operator concept it colors everything about the interaction and mechanics. I wonder if it has to do with how much one takes to and enjoys the lore, too. I found the entire Operator/Tenno/Dreamers concept at the heart of Warframe's lore to be uninteresting, so that probably has a lot to do why I view the operator as nothing but "Power #5" for the Warframes. 

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1 hour ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

No. You just push a button (for me, "5") and turn into a really slow and awkward emo warframe that looks like some teenage delinquent (and don't get me wrong, I play dress-up-the-delinquent like everyone else; I mean, how can you NOT want all those piercings). 

What I don't get is how people don't feel like that's a jarring transition. I mean, I've done it a bazillion times, but it's just "Playing my warframe aaaaaaand....now I'm a gawky child quick-back-to-warframe." The operator is useful, absolutely. Free energy, magus lockdown, on-demand healing. But it's so goofy

I suppose there's just players who like or dislike the Operator concept it colors everything about the interaction and mechanics. I wonder if it has to do with how much one takes to and enjoys the lore, too. I found the entire Operator/Tenno/Dreamers concept at the heart of Warframe's lore to be uninteresting, so that probably has a lot to do why I view the operator as nothing but "Power #5" for the Warframes. 

Ah, I see......so, self-hate, gotcha lol. 

To me, a warframe is just a clunky battle robot that you peel off like a wet bathing suit at the end of the day. It's a dirty construction tractor on the side of the highway unless someone is operating it.... I....we.... all are that goofy space kid to me. We're literally the main character.

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"Self-hate" is a weird way to put it. I see it precisely oppositely - I don't identify with that kid at all; that's not the main character. Whatever warframe I am at the time is the "main character," the kid is some add-on ability, or like, an NPC I have to deal with.

When the stalker stabbed my frame in TSD, I wasn't like, "Oh no I'm gonna die without my frame!" I was like, "That f**kin' kid got my Rhino stabbed." 

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The Sentients are assumed to be more powerful than you(mistake), so they T-pose and go after you.

They are not aware that you have spent the last year and a half making yourself basically invincible to them. This is new for them.

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4 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Is transference harder on PC or something? I keep seeing this "break in flow" saying and I'm having a hard time understanding.

On console, depending on your controller setup I guess....transference for me is simple. It's just like using an ability.

I even binded my buttons in a way that makes it so I don't have to hold the crouch button to stay in stealth mode. I simply press jump or X to dash and control my movement with the L and R joysticks.

If the host is lagging, transference can take a long time to actually register.

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