I don't like the sentients (Edited)

[Ham_Grenabe]

I just hope they have some personality and diversity. For being so key to the lore, there hasn’t been an interesting or amusing sentient yet.

I also predict that once they arrive in force, there will be hordes of one shot fodder mixed with a few damage-adapters/hard boys, just like we have with the other factions. I’m not seeing DE deviate too far from that formula.

Edited February 21, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[SpringRocker]

4 minutes ago, Eklectus said:

Why, yes, my issue is with the fact that I need to use the operator, not because, in this case, every enemy in a "standard" mission is kitted out with an ability that requires an extra step to chew through the EHP, needlessly extending the duration of the mission. I will reiterate. Sentients worked in the past because they were, essentially, miniboss enemies. Here, they suddenly become grunts, but retain the same feature that's intended to make a player pause and pay a single unit more attention than the rest of the horde. 

So you're indeed upset that you can't just breeze past them doing practically nothing.

No, Warframe doesn't need to be made even easier.

Arguing that you should be able to practically afk your way through isn't a reason to make them easier.

[Ham_Grenabe]

This game is only hard at the beginning. This isn’t about “easy.” The game can’t be made easier. This is about “since it’s going to be difficult if not impossible for me to fail, can you at least make it not annoying?”

[Vox_Preliator]

I think having a hole at their center-of-mass ties into their whole alien feeling, and it could be argued that that's actually an adaptation:  Tenno aim here, let's just not put important things there.  I like things like that, not only does it tie into their adaptation thing as well as making them look other, it also gets the player to adapt to how they're shaped.

The damage adaptation works elsewhere because they only show up in small numbers, and are basically minibosses, and even in the Anomaly there's only twenty of them with a decent potion being the fragile Brachiolysts.  A "Sentient foot soldier" that acts in the same role Lancers do would need to only have 50% or lower damage reduction on adapted types or even none at all.  I definitely don't want more things like Vomvalysts, now there's a thing that sucks a whole lot.  Alternatively, we might not even get things like 100-enemy Exterminates starring Sentients, at this point I'm not sure how well something like that could even be handled with Sentient units.

Also, I wouldn't be too surprised if we end up fighting Sentients at a significantly lower level than those we fight in the Veil, and the Anomaly beginning to show up around the other Proximas.  Sentients with adaptation do have counters, one of which can't not be brought along, and even without resistance resetting we can carry three different weapons.  We wouldn't be thrust into 100-enemy Sentient missions without knowing what we'd be getting into, and we wouldn't bring a single-element loadout while expecting not to need to reset resistances.

[buffalobuffalogaming]

If you have a problem with them flying around too fast.
Have you tried Limbo ?
Magus Lockdown ?
Enthrall ?
Temporal Blast ?

I know their strongpoints can be frustrating, but if you know about their weakpoints, you have already won.

Edited February 21, 2020 by blimsoon

[Eklectus]

2 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

So you're indeed upset that you can't just breeze past them doing practically nothing.

No, Warframe doesn't need to be made even easier.

Arguing that you should be able to practically afk your way through isn't a reason to make them easier.

Where did I say that you should be able to afk your way through a mission? What I'm saying is that with Warframe being a horde shooter, turning the baseline enemies into bullet-sponges isn't a sudden addition to difficulty, it's an annoyance. I don't need to put any extra thought into fighting sentients beyond, just because they take more time to kill per enemy, but it does make the prospect of farming on any of the future Sentient tiles that much less appealing.

[CaptainMinty]

I fired at one expecting the hit box to just not match the actual body and was pleasantly surprised that I couldn't just put my cursor in their general direction when using my sniper like I did with most other things. I have to aim at them and I rather approve of it.

[Loza03]

30 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

I think having a hole at their center-of-mass ties into their whole alien feeling, and it could be argued that that's actually an adaptation:  Tenno aim here, let's just not put important things there.  I like things like that, not only does it tie into their adaptation thing as well as making them look other, it also gets the player to adapt to how they're shaped.

Lore < Gameplay at the end of the day.

If something's making the game less fun - in this case, Sentients being frustrating to hit even though you aimed at it properly, then that's just poor design, punishing you for doing something right.

5 minutes ago, blimsoon said:

If you have a problem with them flying around too fast.
Have you tried Limbo ?
Magus Lockdown ?
Enthrall ?
Temporal Blast ?

I know their strongpoints can be frustrating, but if you know about their weakpoints, you have already won.

I use Limbo and Magus Lockdown, but I would rather not have to spam the same handful of powers because some skinny a-holes don't have the common courtesy to get shot when I shoot them.

In other words, I prefer it when I'm being active and using the movement and shooting mechanics (I use Limbo because rolling in and out of the rift to evade damage is fun for me), and the Sentients somewhat rain on that parade. Given DE's supposed dislike for 'press 4 to win' strategies, a lot of their 'endgame' enemies seem to encourage it in one way or another.

[SpringRocker]

2 hours ago, Eklectus said:

Where did I say that you should be able to afk your way through a mission? What I'm saying is that with Warframe being a horde shooter, turning the baseline enemies into bullet-sponges isn't a sudden addition to difficulty, it's an annoyance. I don't need to put any extra thought into fighting sentients beyond, just because they take more time to kill per enemy, but it does make the prospect of farming on any of the future Sentient tiles that much less appealing.

If it was any easier people would kill them with passive abilities like the enemies in the rest of the game.

Something doesn't die instantly and all of a sudden it's too annoying? Something puts up a fight and it's now too much of a challenge?

I'm already one-shotting these (2 shotting Symbilyst; no cleanse needed for adaptation). I'm tired of the whole mentality that if you can't run through and instantly kill everything with an Ignis or Arca that suddenly things become "unfun", "annoying", and "too hard". It's a game, not a TV show.

[(XBOX)anonymousx6x]

11 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

I have to agree, I don't enjoy fighting sentients either. And I do think their adaptation is going to be a problem. The difference between medicine and poison is the dose. Sentient adaptation is fine on a couple enemies per mission, or a couple dozen enemies in a mission you can only do once every three hours. But imagine spending all day grinding out, say, exterminate missions with 150+ enemies each, only they're all sentients and each and every one of them requires you to go into operator three times to reset their adaptation. I shudder at the thought.

Dash around in operator with arcanes dude. I use Lockdown and I strip resistance and now they can't move. I wouldn't mind a survival with the same numbers coming at me. 

[JackHargreav]

4 hours ago, blimsoon said:

If you have a problem with them flying around too fast.
Have you tried Limbo ?
Magus Lockdown ?
Enthrall ?
Temporal Blast ?

I know their strongpoints can be frustrating, but if you know about their weakpoints, you have already won.

 They are still boring to fight.

Now if I freeze them in place that doesn't change a thing. They are still boring. And I prefer to use frames that I like anyways.

Also they adapt to abilities so I either kill a single frozen or CCd unit or I run out of time and a bunch of sentients adapt to my ability and then I can't freeze or CC them anymore.

And there's also no reason for their hitbox to be this bad. Now if these enemies would be just minibosses, I wouldn't give a S#&amp;&#036;. But in the New War we have to fight against a lot of these #*!%ers and that is a problem. Because fighting more than just 3 at a time is just tedious. And unfun. On the Sentient ship we have to kill 30 and after the 10th ship I just rather tear my eyes out honestly.

[ssxtriki]

i mean they are like our mortal enemy's? even in the Lore it says "These original creations could adapt to any kind of damage and reproduced by fission while developing resistance to whatever had harmed them."  They almost  defeated the Orokin, they should be powerful, 

idk i don't find problem take them down, yes you need a bit more tactic and use skills to defeat them compared to the rest of the enemy's, its not like they are just a bullet sponge, they have interesting skills, i don't mind dying once or twice in a mission when you have 6 Revives and a group that can always resurrect you.

you can also equip Paracesis and no brain kill them if its too hard

Can we have at least some interesting, challenging enemy's? cause the rest of the game just a breeze 

[JackHargreav]

30 minutes ago, ssxtriki said:

i mean they are like our mortal enemy's? even in the Lore it says "These original creations could adapt to any kind of damage and reproduced by fission while developing resistance to whatever had harmed them."  They almost  defeated the Orokin, they should be powerful, 

idk i don't find problem take them down, yes you need a bit more tactic and use skills to defeat them compared to the rest of the enemy's, its not like they are just a bullet sponge, they have interesting skills, i don't mind dying once or twice in a mission when you have 6 Revives and a group that can always resurrect you.

you can also equip Paracesis and no brain kill them if its too hard

Can we have at least some interesting, challenging enemy's? cause the rest of the game just a breeze 

Challenging? What's challenging about a block of wood that flies around in a circle?

There's literally no skill required for the sentients at all. Because they don't do anything. They eat bullets and that's it pretty much. And they spin.

The Sentients are literally the most brain dead enemies.

Edited February 21, 2020 by JackHargreav

[tzadquiel]

12 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Challenging? What's challenging about a block of wood that flies around in a circle?

There's literally no skill required for the sentients at all. Because they don't do anything. They eat bullets and that's it pretty much. And they spin.

The Sentients are literally the most brain dead enemies.

yet, threads like this exist.

[JackHargreav]

7 minutes ago, tzadquiel said:

yet, threads like this exist.

Yes because they are crap enemies. I didn't say it's hard to fight them. I said they are boring and not fun. Did you even read my post?

[tzadquiel]

2 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Yes because they are crap enemies. I didn't say it's hard to fight them. I said they are boring and not fun. Did you even read my post?

so you want their hitboxes bigger because... why? 

 

nobody makes a thread about easy enemies that are easy to kill, bud. 

Edited February 21, 2020 by tzadquiel

[ssxtriki]

15 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Challenging? What's challenging about a block of wood that flies around in a circle?

There's literally no skill required for the sentients at all. Because they don't do anything. They eat bullets and that's it pretty much. And they spin.

The Sentients are literally the most brain dead enemies.

Sentients most brain dead enemys? 

are we playing the same game?

[JackHargreav]

4 minutes ago, tzadquiel said:

so you want their hitboxes bigger because... why? 

 

nobody makes a thread about easy enemies that are easy to kill, bud. 

Well, bud.

They just shouldn't have a hole in them. Which is not really a big thing to ask for since there was no video game by far that had enemies with a hole in their chest. Or in the middle of their entire body rather. That's just bad design that becomes annoying after the 100th enemy. Once you have to fight more than 3 at once the entire fight slows down to a crawl and if you have a tanky frame you don't even have to worry about getting killed.

So basically you stand there shooting enemies that can do nothing to you and every now then use the operator. And pretty much this is the entire mission.

The enemies in Fortuna are actually miles better than the sentients.

But willing to bet that you only ever fought sentients on Lua probably.

[JackHargreav]

18 minutes ago, ssxtriki said:

Sentients most brain dead enemys? 

are we playing the same game?

Tell me how they are so complex and hard.

Because by far the only thing a Sentient did is either "stand still and shoot" or "circle around me and sometimes shoot".

[(PSN)grayscale358]

3 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Well, bud.

They just shouldn't have a hole in them. Which is not really a big thing to ask for since there was no video game by far that had enemies with a hole in their chest. Or in the middle of their entire body rather. That's just bad design that becomes annoying after the 100th enemy. Once you have to fight more than 3 at once the entire fight slows down to a crawl and if you have a tanky frame you don't even have to worry about getting killed.

So basically you stand there shooting enemies that can do nothing to you and every now then use the operator. And pretty much this is the entire mission.

The enemies in Fortuna are actually miles better than the sentients.

But willing to bet that you only ever fought sentients on Lua probably.

So you actually have to aim? In a shooter? How shocking! Imagine an enemy whom you must shoot purely in the head to do proper damage?
Dude. Warframe. Is. A. Shooter. You can't just point a gun in the air and suddenly things die. Point it at the enemy, and aim, don't point it at the hole in their chest. It ain't that hard.

Sure, quick, erratic movements make it harder, but like... aim?

[tzadquiel]

1 minute ago, JackHargreav said:

They just shouldn't have a hole in them. Which is not really a big thing to ask for since there was no video game by far that had enemies with a hole in their chest. Or in the middle of their entire body rather.

that itself is why I like it. you don't have to, and it really sounds like you just need to find an easier way of killing them. hint - high dmg output single shot weapons help here. they don't adapt if they are dead.

 

1 minute ago, JackHargreav said:

So basically you stand there shooting enemies that can do nothing to you and every now then use the operator. And pretty much this is the entire mission.

but you don't have an issue with eidolon hunting w harrow or oberon? or is there a thread for that too, of yours? because, you know, you are basically standing there and every now and then use the operator. which also can be said about most warframe content, if you are negative enough and willing to reduce the gameplay to just those activities in your head.

 

1 minute ago, JackHargreav said:

But willing to bet that you only ever fought sentients on Lua probably.

i rly dont care what you believe in, sorry.

 

[SpringRocker]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

You can't just point a gun in the air and suddenly things die.

I think this is the first time they do this with something like the Fulmin and that doesn't happen. I don't mean to make fun of those people, but I agree. It's a shooter and if needing to aim is a concept that people don't want to follow then... Why play a shooter to begin with?

I like the Sentients and hope that it keeps going in this direction.

[JackHargreav]

Just now, tzadquiel said:

that itself is why I like it. you don't have to, and it really sounds like you just need to find an easier way of killing them. hint - high dmg output single shot weapons help here. they don't adapt if they are dead.

 

but you don't have an issue with eidolon hunting w harrow or oberon? or is there a thread for that too, of yours? because, you know, you are basically standing there and every now and then use the operator. which also can be said about most warframe content, if you are negative enough and willing to reduce the gameplay to just those activities in your head.

 

i rly dont care what you believe in, sorry.

 

Never cared about Eidolon hunting simply. I find that boring too. But that's also a content that you don't have to deal with.

The sentients will be a main focus and that is actually concerning. Tho that depends on how they handle it. If we have to fight the same 20 sentients, I guess that fine every now and then. If I don't have to fight them a lot that's fine by me.

But more than 20 and more frequent encounters than we have, will be nothing but slow and boring. And then ppl will complain and DE will lower the difficulty probably. And then the big boys will complain that we have no challenge.

[JackHargreav]

11 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

I like the Sentients and hope that it keeps going in this direction.

I hope they don't. Or at least make 10 more sentient units and give give them some better AI.

Make them try to corner me. Gang up on me. Just attack me like their life depends on it. Then I will be fine with them. Currently they are just some flying bricks shooting the player when they feel like it.

[Corvid]

Why do players assume that disliking the Sentients means you're unskilled at fighting them?

I can kill them just fine. It's just a tedious slog that isn't all that enjoyable. Spongey enemies that can one or two-shot the frames I like playing as isn't my idea of a good time or a satisfying challenge. It's just a gear check that forces me out of the gear I find fun to use.

It's a shame, because the Sentients were always one of the more interesting factions to me, and I've been looking forward to their full implementation ever since the Echoes of the Sentient trailer. But now, seeing how they've been handled thus far, the thought of fighting them en masse just has me sighing and considering switching the game off.

Edited February 21, 2020 by Corvid