Jump to content
Jade Shadows: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

On Nyx's Absorb (A Simple Replacement, And Why)


kgb_cyborg
 Share

Recommended Posts

TL;DR I was going to do this, but actually, if you can't be bothered read the whole thing, please refrain from commenting.

 

 

So I've made this post a few times over the last few days. I was a bit disheartened to see the official feedback threads shut down with no mention of Absorb's outstanding issues in the community hot topics. Inasmuch as I main any 'frame, I main Nyx, and I'm sure players of the other 'frames that were on the receiving end of 9.8 changes will have seen great suggestions go unheeded, so solidarity to all of you. But without further ado,

 

 

What's Wrong With Absorb?

Firstly, it takes control away from the player - this flies in the face of solid game design. A duration ranging from 5s to around 15s, in which you are stationary and cannot even so much as chat, in a game about space ninjas (fast-paced is what I am trying to get at here).

Secondly, its effectiveness is undermined by Nyx's more useful skills, Mind Control and Chaos. More game design principles here - you don't want negative interactions within a skillset.

 

I'm focusing here only on the core mechanics of Absorb, rather than quibbling about its range, damage, or any other stats.

 

 

Constraints on Replacement

Some of you will remember the PS4 trailer for Warframe, in which Nyx, and Absorb, were featured. Because of this, we can't just replace everything about it outright - instead our issue now becomes: we need a skill that looks like Absorb but with different core mechanics. And by looks like Absorb, I mean looks like Absorb as it appears in "The Call" trailer (

at around 3:10). And that skill looks awesome, right? It casts in about 2 seconds and knocks back/kills all the Lancers around Nyx.

Handily, basically what we want is a skill that mimics what we see in the trailer:

 

 

Replacing Absorb

- Move Chaos to 4th ability slot, with 100 energy cost

- 3rd ability becomes Absorb's replacement. 75 energy cost, ~2s cast time, borrowing animations and gfx from current Absorb and the cinematic version from "The Call" trailer. Nyx is invulnerable during cast animation. Upon execution, she performs a powerful, 360-degree telekinetic knockback for fast, hard CC over a moderate range. Optionally, devs could elect to include moderate Forcefield damage, ragdolling struck enemies - though I personally would prefer pure knockback with collateral damage from physics collisions, I'd understand if that was not feasible.

 

 

Thoughts and upvotes appreciated - it's probably too late but I think this is such a simple fix, I'd like to see it reach the devs.

 

edits:

7/10/13 edited for formatting

8/10/13 made more concise

9/10/13 added spoiler buttons

Edited by kgb_cyborg
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I say give psychic bolts more damage armor ignoring damage as well.

 

And yes I agree Chaos should be in (4) slot and have Absorb be changed.

 

Edit: I think Absorb should still have it's damage absorbing ability but have it so it ignores objects, that was one of the huge downsides of absorb.

Edited by NBlitZ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I say give psychic bolts more damage armor ignoring damage as well.

 

And yes I agree Chaos should be in (4) slot and have Absorb be changed.

Psychic Bolts are Serrated Blade type damage, iirc - they already ignore armour. But they lack utility, and simply don't do enough damage to justify the cost (leaving aside the issue of hitting terrain). Nyx should be a CC/utility 'frame, I think if there were more bolts that did less damage but had utility, such as slow, that'd be something. I've also pondered replacement skills for Psychic Bolts, but I wanted to address Absorb first and foremost as it's just so out of place in Warframe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absorb is a nice backup to have when Chaos is still active on an old set of enemies, but a new patrol spawns in front of you.  You get a nice period of invulnerability, and you might actually kill some of them.  Then when you pop out, you can hit Chaos again.  It's also incredibly useful for blocking hallways or blocking fire incoming to the cryopod from a particular direction, while your homies are reviving someone or whatever.  It's also good for chilling out for a minute while your shields recharge.  I'd be sad to see it changed to Pull v. 3.0.

 

Never used psychic bolts or mind control...didn't see the point.  You can accomplish everything you need to get done mostly with Chaos.  Absorb is just a little icing on the cake.

Edited by blahdenoma
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absorb is a nice backup to have when Chaos is still active on an old set of enemies, but a new patrol spawns in front of you.  You get a nice period of invulnerability, and you might actually kill some of them.  Then when you pop out, you can hit Chaos again.  It's also incredibly useful for blocking hallways or blocking fire incoming to the cryopod from a particular direction, while your homies are reviving someone or whatever.  It's also good for chilling out for a minute while your shields recharge.  I'd be sad to see it changed to Pull v. 3.0.

 

Never used psychic bolts or mind control...didn't see the point.  You can accomplish everything you need to get done mostly with Chaos.  Absorb is just a little icing on the cake.

You say "nice period of invulnerability", I say "some of the most mind-numbingly dull 10 seconds you will spend in Warframe"...

 

Anyone who hasn't seen the Absorb featured in "The Call" trailer for Warframe, I recommend you have a look, and consider whether you prefer Absorb as featured in that cinematic (if you can call that Absorb), or the Absorb we currently have in-game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you can't sit still through an Absorb, you might need some Adderall, bro.

I use public transport to get around.... Absorb is nothing. But that's not the point.

This is a game about space ninjas, if the advertising is to be believed. Read: fast-paced combat, no cover system, etc. Disregarding for a moment that taking control away from the player so completely (you can't even use the text chat!) flies in the face of good game design, what does Absorb do? You hit 4, you watch yourself meditate for between 5 and 15 seconds, and then... well, nothing much happens, most of the time - certainly compared to the shenanigans you could have been up to in that 5-15 seconds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

*shrug*  I'd like it to do more damage, since it's an ult and it generally doesn't seem to do a whole hell of a lot (granted, I don't start using Absorb until around level 100 enemies on T3 defense, so that could be the reason why it seems not to be doing much damage).  Otherwise, I like the timer and the invuln.  It's useful, whether you care to admit it or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

*shrug*  I'd like it to do more damage, since it's an ult and it generally doesn't seem to do a whole hell of a lot (granted, I don't start using Absorb until around level 100 enemies on T3 defense, so that could be the reason why it seems not to be doing much damage).  Otherwise, I like the timer and the invuln.  It's useful, whether you care to admit it or not.

Absorb having base damage is inconsistent with the skill's concept, just as a skill like Pull having damage is weird. The base damage on Absorb was a band-aid applied for reasons unknown to me. The bottom line is this. If, as a dev, the only way you can fix a skill is by making it inconsistent with its own concept, then you need a new concept, for a new skill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Best rework of Absorb I've seen on here yet. +1 from me.

 

Absorb having base damage is inconsistent with the skill's concept, just as a skill like Pull having damage is weird. The base damage on Absorb was a band-aid applied for reasons unknown to me.

It's an ult, it's supposed to be good. It isn't. I wouldn't waste a slot on it as it is. With the changes suggested here - you did read he would prefer to keep it pure knockback with only physics impact damage from, you know, actually hitting things, right? This would fit perfectly into Nyxs' role - or have you never heard of telekinesis?

 

2 second cast/anim, big knockback, range enhanced by stretch, now THAT would be an ult I'd slot!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why does everyone say absorb does terrible damage?

With a little teamwork, it can slaughter infested well past 40 mins in survival. Just have a Nova prime the units just before you explode.

I actually like absorb, it deals to s of damage if you use it right, can combo with other abilities and knocks down enemeis after it ends.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've made this suggestion several times, but I'll say it again, allowing Nyx to detonate Absorb prematurely would solve its problem of taking too long. Sometimes you want it to last for a long time (when there's no Frost around and you're protecting a pod-thingy), other times the enemies get bored with you and run away and you end up not doing any damage. So, just allow Nyx to detonate Absorb at will.

 

Secondly, Psychic bolt's main problem is that it never hits. If you could really get all the bolts to hit it might be useful, but you're lucky if one hits. Make it go through terrain! And reduce cost to 35.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why does everyone say absorb does terrible damage?

With a little teamwork, it can slaughter infested well past 40 mins in survival. Just have a Nova prime the units just before you explode.

I actually like absorb, it deals to s of damage if you use it right, can combo with other abilities and knocks down enemeis after it ends.

I've never commented on Absorb's damage... it's the core mechanics of the skill I take issue with.

 

If you have a Nova on your team in the first place, then sorry to break it to you, but for dealing damage, your Absorb is completely outclassed by AM Drop - which amplifies incoming damage, unlike Absorb. And doesn't even lock the casting 'frame down while it's being cast.

 

 

I've made this suggestion several times, but I'll say it again, allowing Nyx to detonate Absorb prematurely would solve its problem of taking too long. Sometimes you want it to last for a long time (when there's no Frost around and you're protecting a pod-thingy), other times the enemies get bored with you and run away and you end up not doing any damage. So, just allow Nyx to detonate Absorb at will.

 

Secondly, Psychic bolt's main problem is that it never hits. If you could really get all the bolts to hit it might be useful, but you're lucky if one hits. Make it go through terrain! And reduce cost to 35.

I've read this suggestion many times. I think it's a good suggestion, I just think mine is better. I don't find Absorb to be a very "psychic" skill, and I find its core mechanics lacking. Having a powerful telekinetic knockback fits right into Nyx's theme and provides much more flexible utility than the handful of use cases for Absorb.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only two fixes Absorb needs is to be able to chat when it's active and to pass through obstacles.

 

Because it's blocked by everything, does weak damage and is slower than an octogenarian turtle with arthritis.

It is not weak, it has 800 base damage which just drops with distance, and since Absorb draws enemy's aggro and draws them closer, it's not such a terrible thing. Just yesterday I was doing an infested survival on Saturn with a friend and two randoms, I was using Nyx. First time I used absorb was in a corridor when a huge wave of infested was coming. As I blocked the path, all fire was coming to me. And then I exploded for around 20k damage to every of them. Later we moved to an open area, there was even more mobs, but only my friend was smart enough to shoot at me when I used absorb, instead of wasting ammo on single targets. I even saw as one particular Frost stopped near me, looked around and ran away. Even then I did 8k damage bursts in series as enemies just continued to come in even greater numbers. When only the infested bit and claw me, I still did over 1,5k damage bursts.

The main problem with absorb is that other players do not know what it can do and what it is intended for, otherwise it's the only ultimate I'd dare to call the ultimate.

 

And now imagine what it will become if it'll be changed to a 2-seconds cast of psychic knock-back. Nyx would be ripped off of the most potent of her skills.

 

have you never heard of telekinesis?

Exactly what it is now. Consider it as a telekinetic barrier. Incoming fire creates pressure on its surface; and when Nyx releases it, it expands in a telekinetic tsunami.

Edited by Bouldershoulder
Link to comment
Share on other sites

and since Absorb draws enemy's aggro and draws them closer, it's not such a terrible thing.

 

One problem with Absorb is that most of the enemies that are drawn to Nyx is that the enemies tend to run off and hide behind cover.'

 

And those that are hidden behind Obstacles will kill you right after you blow up the bubble.

Edited by NBlitZ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So tell me, why should other players shoot at your Absorb bubble? What exp does it give them? So you say you can do high damage to the mobs - what's the DPS compared to Rhinos Stomp or Novas M-Prime? 10-15 seconds of contemplating my navel and the ONLY place it'd be useful is a defence where the pod's seriously at risk and you forgot your Frost, Vauban, Nova, etc and even then, I'd use Chaos so I could actually DO something instead of maybe - MAYBE - doing a bit of damage to the mobs that actually bothered attacking me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You still get exp for things your teammates kill.  Otherwise everyone would be crying like little girls about Nova.

 

The only fixes Absorb needs are:

1) Should pass through obstacles, not just line of sight

2) Should be able to chat while using it

3) Should do an armor-ignoring damage type

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So tell me, why should other players shoot at your Absorb bubble? What exp does it give them? So you say you can do high damage to the mobs - what's the DPS compared to Rhinos Stomp or Novas M-Prime? 10-15 seconds of contemplating my navel and the ONLY place it'd be useful is a defence where the pod's seriously at risk and you forgot your Frost, Vauban, Nova, etc and even then, I'd use Chaos so I could actually DO something instead of maybe - MAYBE - doing a bit of damage to the mobs that actually bothered attacking me.

As you say, the utility of Absorb is completely outclassed by Chaos. And its killing power is outclassed by almost any well-modded weapon, because it has pathetic range and a 10s cast time.

 

You still get exp for things your teammates kill.  Otherwise everyone would be crying like little girls about Nova.

 

The only fixes Absorb needs are:

1) Should pass through obstacles, not just line of sight

2) Should be able to chat while using it

3) Should do an armor-ignoring damage type

Right, and still outclassed by any ultimate that doesn't take control away from the player for the duration (so on a par with Blade Storm, Overload and Sound Quake... actually SQ is better, it has range and CC).

In Warframe, I like to be able to respond to the battlefield. The battlefield can change completely in 10 seconds, let alone 15. The ability isn't locking the battlefield down, it's not clearing the battlefield. Its killing power is so completely outclassed by any well-modded weapon that 90% of the time, by the time you finish casting it, your squad has already killed everything around you.

I've seen teammates use Absorb, and I've shot at the bubble, and then when it goes off it occurs to me that I could have killed all the mobs that it did AND the ones that just downed the Nyx who cast it faster. So unsurprisingly I don't bother anymore. I clear the room (sometimes I do it with another skill just to demonstrate how useless Absorb is), I move on, the Nyx runs to catch up 15 seconds later.

 

FYI, Absorb currently deals Forcefield damage, a damage type which innately ragdolls enemies. A change of damage type would lose the ragdoll effect, unless devs chose (and remembered) to build it back in as a custom effect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would be nice if it acted like it does in that trailer.

2 seconds of charge up, with some heavy CC and moderate damage... And a nice bonus of dishing back any damage that was inflicted at Nyx, maybe? Would be cool if using the skill made all the chaos-ed enemies turn and shoot at her.

Of course it would only be nice if the CC comes BEFORE the invulnerability ends.

Edited by GTG3000
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absorb is fine and bolts will be changed soon.

It leaves you motionless barely grabbing agro doing minor damage for 15 seconds, and completely lacks any and all synergy from any of other Nyx's skills.

 

The only upside is gaining back shields, but using Chaos will let you get shields abck whiel they fight amongst themselves, for 25 less energy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...