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(PS4)reidy35

Revenant Rework, and opinions on it.

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Mesmer skin being recast able is part of the reason it's actually useful, as you can always have it up and never have to take damage. Removing that ability is a poor idea.

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23 minutes ago, Ragnafiro said:

But he have a niche: his 2 made it that he can easily survive enemies from the index into one hour solo for that autograph and because  of his 1 and 3 synergy at 250% strength, regardless if they're level 30 or 300, enthralled enemies get one-shotted by his 3, this part isn't needed in a high bodies-drop enviroment, but in an environment like the Index and easily 1v1 a lich, then he excels as a small skirmish/duelist frame that don't care for infinite scaling. "Zero benefit to teammates" 'cause he's akin to a soloframe who like endurance run like Ash. "His abilities don't flow together" yeah I think I explained the mechanical part of his kit in my earlier post. "Failure of a design" I don't dabble into opinion as I stated the facts what he do well.

Your mentality of disrespecting endurance runners such as myself is a little narrow minded IMO. For example, Requiem Void Fissure Survival or Disruption allows you that if you can stay longer, the resource booster racks up to significant degrees while never have lost of time as Survival will always be at 5 minutes interval and Disruption can be much faster but less Kuva (that game mode reward faster relic open than Kuva if you go something like an Inaros with a status shotgun and a CO melee to clean a demolyst in 3 seconds average). My point is that if I can play solo to test my arsenal to not play with people like you in public queue then I think that's a fair tradeoff.

I'll talk about Nyx in another time (maybe) but for Ember, her damage is in a similar theme as Volt: they relies in enemies quantity with flat numbers as oppose as a true "infinite scaling" like other AoE DPS frames. Saryn spore racks up her 1 at a fast pace with 200% strength and 280% range. Equinox Day 4 nukes enemies with their health and shield stats that have no real usage of strength mods. Gara with a decent statstick can ramps her loop to 1-shot armorless enemies within her melee range. Some of the best infinite scaling abilities DO NOT have to have anti-armor tools. There is a reason that Volt's 4 excels as a free press 4 without line-of-sight in content like all Void Fissures but Requiem and ESO. Enemies density in ESO is in the highest concentration to the point that he pairs well with Saryn in premade ESO in recruit chat, where there his damage excels better than Saryn until armor scaling at level 90s. With Ember? Her 4 is a flat amount and she gains +5% strength per enemies burned within her affinity radius so basically this: Fewer enemies burned, her 4 do less damage.

From my perspective as of typing this, I'm trying to to see what is her identity to worth picking, if not an AoE DPS frame. Is she a support/nuke mage hybrid frame with her 2 and 4 augment since she gives DR and energy orb drops? If that is the case, then Nezha outclassed her with his 2 without augment and his 3 with augment gives better DR. So I REALLY wanted to be wrong on why would Ember will eventually be a ballsack of suggested ideas that DE slaps into her while removing her toxic playstyle 4? (With mentally SANE constructive crititism of course, but this post is already strays too far from Revenant so I think I have to stop here)

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On 2020-02-21 at 3:09 PM, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Mesmer skin will no longer be recastable, but, you will gain 90% damage reduction to the damage types you were struck by during Mesmer skin.

This and the fact you want to get rid of Enthrall, sounds like a massive pointless nerf to Revenants survivability.

Adding a 90% damage reduction to Mesmer Skin is pointless as it provides more than enough survivability anyway. We don’t need even more bog-standard 90% DR abilities in the game.

Also, taking away the recastability is just....what? The fact you couldn’t recast Mesmer Skin was one of the biggest points of contention when Revenant was originally released, and now you want to reverse the fix?

Mesmir Skin and Enthrall work incredibly well together. Enthrall takes the heat off of Revenant, thus not allowing his Mesmer charges to be eaten away faster than a fat kid eats McDonalds, and it allows you to get your charges back with Reave with the added bonus of removing nearly all enemy health.

And you want to take all of this away? 

Also, mind-control can fall under Sentient/Eidolon theme as the lore states Sentients turned Orokin technology against their creators. 

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Cleaned the thread from several rude posts.

You guys are free to disagree with other players, but don't be rude. This is basic human decency, really.

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1 hour ago, Ragnafiro said:

But he have a niche: his 2 made it that he can easily survive enemies from the index into one hour solo for that autograph and because  of his 1 and 3 synergy at 250% strength, regardless if they're level 30 or 300, enthralled enemies get one-shotted by his 3, this part isn't needed in a high bodies-drop enviroment, but in an environment like the Index and easily 1v1 a lich, then he excels as a small skirmish/duelist frame that don't care for infinite scaling. "Zero benefit to teammates" 'cause he's akin to a soloframe who like endurance run like Ash. "His abilities don't flow together" yeah I think I explained the mechanical part of his kit in my earlier post. "Failure of a design" I don't dabble into opinion as I stated the facts what he do well.

Your mentality of disrespecting endurance runners such as myself is a little narrow minded IMO. For example, Requiem Void Fissure Survival or Disruption allows you that if you can stay longer, the resource booster racks up to significant degrees while never have lost of time as Survival will always be at 5 minutes interval and Disruption can be much faster but less Kuva (that game mode reward faster relic open than Kuva if you go something like an Inaros with a status shotgun and a CO melee to clean a demolyst in 3 seconds average). My point is that if I can play solo to test my arsenal to not play with people like you in public queue then I think that's a fair tradeoff.

Index isn’t that hard to survive.

His 1/3 synergy is too slow to ever be a practical choice in actual gameplay. Just you your guns or a frame with good DPS.

Ash is strictly a damage dealer frame, but Revenant has a variety of different functions, most of which don’t provide enough of a benefit to team mates, like what are they going to do with a single Mesmer charge? 

That resource booster does not stack infinitely. So while there’s a reason to go a ways past the final reward there’s no continuing benefit to the risk. In fact DE has been making it so players don’t feel like they have to play in a single game mode for hours on end without break. It’s why the removed void towers.

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1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

No thanks, I already solve my up close and personal thing with melee, or the bramma when I want to have fun. 

Because when you are Nezha you can get 1-shot at certain levels, same with Rhino. And what does the percentage have to do with anything? Nezha soaking up a 10k hit is the same as Rev soaking up a 10k hit, those 10k were placed on a frame that could take it instead of a fragile one that would get 1-shot. The difference is just that Rev completely negates it while Nezha lets 10% slip through. Halo is unreliable in the end, because the further down its health goes, the more likely you are to get 1-shot the moment a hit will remove it since the invulnerability wont kick in unless you survive the hit that makes halo reach zero. Plus it cannot be recast.

No that was an example of how it works. It is enough to get a bit into arbis to see it outperform all other defensive skills because it makes you 100% safe from everything aslong as you keep track of the stacks, which isnt that hard. There are no risks for bad luck incidents where an ancient may pull you in to finish you or you get CCed in a bad spot. I'd say the second safest would be Hildryn due to her shield gate and the multitude of option to keep her shields in OS 24/7 or Inaros because he has massive ehp that can easily be topped off at all times. Rhino and Nezha are ok, but their mechanics either require too much build up to effectively recast or they cant be recast until they run out, which gets you closer and closer to 1HK terittory the more your defenses diminish. Although a Nezha built heavily around defense and with the proper mods will always sit on a massive armor value and a fully stacked adaptation.

Revenant doesn’t take 10k Damage the same way Nezha does. Revenant takes 10k Damage the same way he takes 10 damage. And since that level of damage only comes from a few select enemies that means most of Mesmer Skin is wasted on smaller enemies. While Warding halo only loses a small amount of heath to the smaller enemies and loses the big chunks to the larger sources of damage. And since all those Mesmer charges are being wasted on the smaller enemies that just means you’re more likely to run out before getting hit by a bigger attack while Mesmer is down and get one shot. Nezha atleast gets 1 second of invincibility and an AOE Fire proc to protect him when halo runs out. What does Revenant get? A tank ability that leaves you completely vulnerable for the duration of its cast and none of his abilities help negate that.

I seriously think you have zero idea of how hard to kill the other tank frames are. Maybe do some research and come back when you know what you’re talking about. 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Pheresint said:

Mesmer skin being recast able is part of the reason it's actually useful, as you can always have it up and never have to take damage. Removing that ability is a poor idea.

Recasting Mesmer Skin leaves Revenant vulnerable to be shot. The ability itself actively prevents Danse Macabre from using its scaling ability properly. So replacing it with a tank ability that better synergizes with his damage ability is a far better option. 

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57 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

This and the fact you want to get rid of Enthrall, sounds like a massive pointless nerf to Revenants survivability.

Sentient/Eidolon theme as the lore states Sentients turned Orokin technology against their creators. 

The Sentient ARE the Orokin technology that turned on them.

Wukong became a better frame after DE “nerfed” his survivability. You’re acting like anything below 100% DR is useless.

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21 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The Sentient ARE the Orokin technology that turned on them.

Wukong became a better frame after DE “nerfed” his survivability. You’re acting like anything below 100% DR is useless.

I actually really like the 100 DR because I can just relax and chill and face tank anything, including my own explosives. Plus picking off enemies at my leisure with easy headshots while they stand motionless. 

It's a lot easier to keep track of 15 hits and every hit takes one, than to keep track of 20k points of damage absorption and not knowing if it'll soak up 5 hits or 50. Just a preference thing, I dunno. 

Edited by (XB1)aMichealMeyers
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12 minutes ago, (XB1)aMichealMeyers said:

I actually really like the 100 DR because I can just relax and chill and face tank anything, including my own explosives. Plus picking off enemies at my leisure with easy headshots while they stand motionless. 

It's a lot easier to keep track of 15 hits and every hit takes one, than to keep track of 20k points of damage absorption and not knowing if it'll soak up 5 hits or 50. Just a preference thing, I dunno. 

You won't convince him. Even if you try to use just Mesmer Skin and show that it lasts as long as other duration-based defense abilities (30 seconds on average), augment it with Thralls for minutes+ 100% damage mitigation duration, note that almost all enemies do not have 100% accuracy, the stun effect from hitting Mesmer Skin, or the undocumented per-enemy time gating... even with such overwhelming evidence, you cannot convince this guy that Mesmer Skin is pretty darn good. Keep in mind, this is somebody who complains about 28 Mesmer Skin stacks.

I think Gears has a point about thematic issues. Arguing with him about the effectiveness of Thralls, Mesmer Skin or Reave is a waste time. You cannot convince him whether it's through cold hard numbers and facts or reasonable hypothetical situations.

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34 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Index isn’t that hard to survive.

Then is there a better arsenal that can do Index for one hour and consistently carry 15 points as a solo player with 3 specters? I want to know more than just ideals. I need concrete loadout. My loadout is a Revenant with Zenurik and with heavy attack spam Hate and Kuva Brakk. Ended with 700 seconds remaining after I got the autograph.

39 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

His 1/3 synergy is too slow to ever be a practical choice in actual gameplay. Just you your guns or a frame with good DPS.

 

Yeah, I do believe it "feel" slow when you don't animation cancel and by at level 200s when even your melee vs armorless enemies starts to struggle to kill for more than 4 seconds into the the Index, so that's why when u don't carry more than 7 points, you have enough energy to use 1 and doubletap 3 to instakill those jackals-like enemies (which for some reason immune to slash procs).

42 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Ash is strictly a damage dealer frame, but Revenant has a variety of different functions, most of which don’t provide enough of a benefit to team mates, like what are they going to do with a single Mesmer charge? 

Yeah, I do belive most of his tools are wasted like let's pretend shields means something lol. So I just look at the best parts of his kit, dump the uselessness, and thought to myself "Yeah, as long as DE rework the useless shts he have without touching his strengths, I couldn't care less."

46 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

That resource booster does not stack infinitely. So while there’s a reason to go a ways past the final reward there’s no continuing benefit to the risk. In fact DE has been making it so players don’t feel like they have to play in a single game mode for hours on end without break. It’s why the removed void towers.

Yeah, I know that it's capped at +100%, a huge amount that you get twice the value for a short value of time eventually. Like I said earlier, it doesn't matter if enemies are level 80s or 290s, as long you thrive with the perfect loadout, it's always be 5 minutes along with kuva survival being one of the best kuva farming long-term. So I don't know this "risk" you're talking about as my Nekros build get tickled by by level 200s with consistent max life supports percentage. As for Disruption, the Kuva are just secondary, the main appeal is one of the fastest relic unwrapped so by around 12 rounds, the game mode discourage abilities usage vs Demolyst so it's not count as long-term kuva farm compare to kuva survival.

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9 minutes ago, nslay said:

You won't convince him. Even if you try to use just Mesmer Skin and show that it lasts as long as other duration-based defense abilities (30 seconds on average), augment it with Thralls for minutes+ 100% damage mitigation duration, note that almost all enemies do not have 100% accuracy, the stun effect from hitting Mesmer Skin, or the undocumented per-enemy time gating... even with such overwhelming evidence, you cannot convince this guy that Mesmer Skin is pretty darn good. Keep in mind, this is somebody who complains about 28 Mesmer Skin stacks.

I think Gears has a point about thematic issues. Arguing with him about the effectiveness of Thralls, Mesmer Skin or Reave is a waste time. You cannot convince him whether it's through cold hard numbers and facts or reasonable hypothetical situations.

I dunno if the guys "real" or if this is a character he's playing now. Like, the only thing I've ever seen him post is complaining about Revenant. Some of the things, I think he's just trolling 

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40 minutes ago, Ragnafiro said:

Then is there a better arsenal that can do Index for one hour and consistently carry 15 points as a solo player with 3 specters? I want to know more than just ideals. I need concrete loadout. My loadout is a Revenant with Zenurik and with heavy attack spam Hate and Kuva Brakk. Ended with 700 seconds remaining after I got the autograph.

Yeah, I do believe it "feel" slow when you don't animation cancel and by at level 200s when even your melee vs armorless enemies starts to struggle to kill for more than 4 seconds into the the Index, so that's why when u don't carry more than 7 points, you have enough energy to use 1 and doubletap 3 to instakill those jackals-like enemies (which for some reason immune to slash procs).

Yeah, I do belive most of his tools are wasted like let's pretend shields means something lol. So I just look at the best parts of his kit, dump the uselessness, and thought to myself "Yeah, as long as DE rework the useless shts he have without touching his strengths, I couldn't care less."

Yeah, I know that it's capped at +100%, a huge amount that you get twice the value for a short value of time eventually. Like I said earlier, it doesn't matter if enemies are level 80s or 290s, as long you thrive with the perfect loadout, it's always be 5 minutes along with kuva survival being one of the best kuva farming long-term. So I don't know this "risk" you're talking about as my Nekros build get tickled by by level 200s with consistent max life supports percentage. As for Disruption, the Kuva are just secondary, the main appeal is one of the fastest relic unwrapped so by around 12 rounds, the game mode discourage abilities usage vs Demolyst so it's not count as long-term kuva farm compare to kuva survival.

Rhino.

I have yet to find a scenario where one would use Reave over Danse Macabre.

And that’s the problem. Revenant has next to no upsides. He’s like 99% con. There’s no benefit to using a frame that has more downsides than upsides.

I think you just blew every bodies else’s minds here that your Nekros can survive level 200s. Because apparently everybody else here doesn’t understand that the other abilities and forms of tanking that isn’t Mesmer Skin are extremely viable and practical.

Also, I use Gauss for disruption. The benefit for that is you can use his abilities to help kill the demolyst because he boosts his weapons. Tho haven’t tried him out on Kuva disruption since before his buffs. But It’s likely he perform extremely well there.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)aMichealMeyers said:

I actually really like the 100 DR because I can just relax and chill and face tank anything, including my own explosives. Plus picking off enemies at my leisure with easy headshots while they stand motionless. 

It's a lot easier to keep track of 15 hits and every hit takes one, than to keep track of 20k points of damage absorption and not knowing if it'll soak up 5 hits or 50. Just a preference thing, I dunno. 

Yeah you know. Until the charges run out and your face ends up splattered on the nearby wall. Revenant can’t stand there and do nothing and survive, he’ll eventually die. Frames like Inaros and Nidus can tank indefinitely.

if you don’t know when a certain hit of a specific damage is going to hit you, how do you know when you’re going to lose a Mesmer charge?

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1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The Sentient ARE the Orokin technology that turned on them.

You completely misunderstand a lore related post again, Gears. I know the Sentients are the product of the Orokin just like everything else. I’m saying the Sentients themselves have the capability to take over technology and turn it against the Orokin as well, as shown in the Excalibur Prime Codex;

“The Sentients had won. They had turned our weapons, our technology, against us. The more advanced we became, the greater our losses. The war was over unless we found a new way. In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed. We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction. Gave them the weapons of the old ways. Gun and blade. A new warrior, a new code was born. These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors. Warrior-Gods cast in steel and fury striking our enemies in a way they could never comprehend. Excalibur was the first.”

Stop jumping to conclusions and maybe ask what people are talking about first. This is why you come across as rude in a lot of threads.

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Wukong became a better frame after DE “nerfed” his survivability. You’re acting like anything below 100% DR is useless.

Its a straight up fact that Wukong’s survivability took a hit in his rework. There is no question in that and you won’t find anyone saying otherwise. In Wukongs case however, it was sacrificed for the sake of being better at everything else and being more fun to play. This does not work for all frames however as Wukong’s old Defy was basically his only useful ability. Revenant has good synergy with all abilites and much more fun survivability than simply pressing a button and not using anything else.

100% DR will always be more useful than 90%. So while its not useless, its a massive comedown from what Revenant has now and unlike Wukong; there is no need for a it for the reasons stated previously. Also, we have enough tank frames that have 90% reduction abilities and those that don’t always have Adaptation equipped so they get innate 90%. 

Its become a boring meta and we don’t need every tank frame to either have an ability that gives 90% DR or must have adaptation equipped to achieve that effect. Therefore, Revenant should be left where he is.

Edited by TheGodofWiFi
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2 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

You completely misunderstand a post again, Gears. I know the Sentients are the product of the Orokin just like everything else. I’m saying the Sentients themselves have the capability to take over technology and turn it against the Orokin as well, as shown in the Excalibur Prime Codex;

“The Sentients had won. They had turned our weapons, our technology, against us. The more advanced we became, the greater our losses. The war was over unless we found a new way. In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed. We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction. Gave them the weapons of the old ways. Gun and blade. A new warrior, a new code was born. These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors. Warrior-Gods cast in steel and fury striking our enemies in a way they could never comprehend. Excalibur was the first.”

Stop jumping to conclusions and maybe ask what people are talking about first. This is why you come across as rude in a lot of threads.

Its a straight up fact that Wukong’s survivability took a hit in his rework. There is no question in that and you won’t find anyone saying otherwise. In Wukongs case however, it was sacrificed for the sake of being better at everything else and being more fun to play. This does not work for all frames however as Wukong’s old Defy was basically his only useful ability. Revenant has good synergy with all abilites and much more fun survivability than simply pressing a button and not using anything else.

100% DR will always be more useful than 90%. So while its not useless, its a massive comedown from what Revenant has no and unlike Wukong; there is no need for a it for the reasons stated previously. Also, we have enough tank frames that have 90% reduction abilities and those that don’t always have Adaptation equipped so they get innate 90%. 

Its become a boring meta and we don’t need every tank frame to either have an ability that gives 90% DR or must have adaptation equipped to achieve that effect. Therefore, Revenant should be left where he is.

 You know if Ervin can pull it off and you will all applaud him like seals I’ll do the same. And if you call me out on it you’re all hypocrites.

That quote is “too vague” to be considered actual evidence. 

Yes Wukongs survivability was “nerfed”, but he became a far better frame out of it. Until DE nerfed him with the melee rework.

Nezha also lost his 100% DR in favor of 90% and he gained several new gameplay options that made him a better frame.

If you’re that bothered by it then DE can give Revenant 91% DR.

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Revenant can’t stand there and do nothing and survive, he’ll eventually die. Frames like Inaros and Nidus can tank indefinitely

Wrong. This “Just standing there” scenario does not ever work as no frame can tank, “indefinitely”. Its impossible. Inaros and Nidus are very tanky, but they will eventually die.

Also, you sound like you basically want “God-Mode”, which is incredibly boring.

Not every frame needs to function the same way. Its called diversity and if you don’t like Revenant, simply play Inaros or Nidus. Stop trying to turn frames into other frames.

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3 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

 You know if Ervin can pull it off and you will all applaud him like seals I’ll do the same. And if you call me out on it you’re all hypocrites.

That quote is “too vague” to be considered actual evidence. 

Yes Wukongs survivability was “nerfed”, but he became a far better frame out of it. Until DE nerfed him with the melee rework.

Nezha also lost his 100% DR in favor of 90% and he gained several new gameplay options that made him a better frame.

If you’re that bothered by it then DE can give Revenant 91% DR.

See, this is why your posts get laughed at. You just come crashing in guns-a-blazing and then when people show you actual evidence, you start acting like everyone else is wrong and dismiss/ignore anything that doesn’t fit your view even if its written lore by DE. You just want to fight.

I’m not getting dragged into one of your pointless eight pages long bile-swapping contests. 

So long.

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1 minute ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Wrong. This “Just standing there” scenario does not ever work as no frame can tank, “indefinitely”. Its impossible. Inaros and Nidus are very tanky, but they will eventually die.

Well my Nidus is currently taking infinite hits from 8 level 85 corrupted heavy gunners. So I think you owe me an apology.

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16 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Rhino.

I have yet to find a scenario where one would use Reave over Danse Macabre.

And that’s the problem. Revenant has next to no upsides. He’s like 99% con. There’s no benefit to using a frame that has more downsides than upsides.

I think you just blew every bodies else’s minds here that your Nekros can survive level 200s. Because apparently everybody else here doesn’t understand that the other abilities and forms of tanking that isn’t Mesmer Skin are extremely viable and practical.

Also, I use Gauss for disruption. The benefit for that is you can use his abilities to help kill the demolyst because he boosts his weapons. Tho haven’t tried him out on Kuva disruption since before his buffs. But It’s likely he perform extremely well there.

I am result oriented so what weapons, kiddos, schools that YOU have used with your Rhino solo one hour into the index and how much remaining time by the time you get the autograph, assuming you actually did it?

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4 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

See, this is why your posts get laughed at. You just come crashing in guns-a-blazing and then when people show you actual evidence, you start acting like everyone else is wrong and dismiss/ignore anything that doesn’t fit your view even if its written lore by DE. You just want to fight.

I’m not getting dragged into one of your pointless eight pages long bile-swapping contests. 

So long.

well way to go you just outed yourself as a hypocrite.


Sentients themselves are machines. If they are turning weapons and technology against the Orokin that means they were infecting that technology with themselves. So that supports the idea that Revenant should have Eidolon powers. Also, you can’t Mind Control circuitry.

 

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

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Just now, Ragnafiro said:

I am result oriented so what weapons, kiddos, schools that YOU have used with your Rhino solo one hour into the index and how much remaining time by the time you get the autograph, assuming you actually did it?

I don’t play Rhino, but I’ve heard several things about him being the best at Index.

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19 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I don’t play Rhino, but I’ve heard several things about him being the best at Index.

HEARD LOL, then those throats must've spread misinformation. True, his 2 held on very well for the first 4 rounds high risk but eventually, their damage, if not gonna one-shot you, gonna force you to play defensively to prevent from taking free damage that chips out very fast, losing kill speed significantly in the process, but with his Revenant 2, you see taking damage differently, it means as long you avoid those rapidfire turrets, not many enemies in the Index can quicky chip out your 2 stack as they get quickly stunned afterward. And because of that, he can play with 0 preservation and relentless, only refresh his 2 after dumping 15 points.

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28 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I don’t play Rhino, but I’ve heard several things about him being the best at Index.

Rhino is picked the most common because he's a mainstreamed king of all trades frame. The first 4 rounds high risk means nearly a million credit net worth is enough for awhile for most people as they need the credit to pay the tax trade. So because of that, for most people there's no real reason to stay if they don't want the autograph.

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