Revenant Rework, and opinions on it.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 minutes ago, Ragnafiro said:

HEARD LOL, then those throats must've spread misinformation. True, his 2 held on very well for the first 4 rounds high risk but eventually, their damage, if not gonna one-shot you, gonna force you to play defensively to prevent from taking free damage that chips out very fast, losing kill speed significantly in the process, but with his Revenant 2, you see taking damage differently, it means as long you avoid those rapidfire turrets, not many enemies in the Index can quicky chip out your 2 stack as they get quickly stunned afterward. And because of that, he can play with 0 preservation and relentless, only refresh his 2 after dumping 15 points.

So is Index your only source of information for Revenants performance? Because even if he is useful there Index gameplay is different from other game modes gameplay, same goes for the amount of enemies you face. So if you don’t have any information outside of Index anything you say is literally useless.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 minutes ago, Ragnafiro said:

Rhino is picked the most common because he's a mainstreamed king of all trades frame. The first 4 rounds high risk means nearly a million credit net worth is enough for awhile for most people as they need the credit to pay the tax trade. So because of that, for most people there's no real reason to stay if they don't want the autograph.

Rhino at least has uses outside of Index. Unlike Revenant where it’s the only thing people say he’s good at.

[Ragnafiro]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

So is Index your only source of information for Revenants performance? Because even if he is useful there Index gameplay is different from other game modes gameplay, same goes for the amount of enemies you face. So if you don’t have any information outside of Index anything you say is literally useless.

By your logic, I assume you rank Chroma to be S#&$ tier because he's a statcheck frame that can easily solo Profit Taker and a mandatory pick on demanded in premade Tridolon? Limbo excels at solely defending a single immobile objective so he's S#&$? If it exist to farm at a prevalent worth, the best tools and nothing should matter else.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

9 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

 

Revenant's good at basically everything

Except he’s not. There’s not a single game mode or activity in the game that I would only chose Revenant for over any other frame. In fact he and Nyx are the absolute last frames I would ever consider bringing to a mission. Why? Because literally every other frame does what they do better.

Edited February 22, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Ragnafiro]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Rhino at least has uses outside of Index. Unlike Revenant where it’s the only thing people say he’s good at.

Plus on the topic of versatile and flexibility, that is one of the most prevalent factor when ranking tools as I understand that new players should their first few frames who can able to have the most mission coverage. But as they get more slots, they should look for more specialized tools that excels by none else. So what if it's no longer a "new player" factor but where do generalist frames falls under in the top-end content? EVEN generalist frames must have above average performace of their best abilities across the board, if they don't falls under a more specialized route like Trinity, Frost, Inaros, Saryn, etc.

[(PSN)TrollyThyTrinity]

You guys haven’t learned yet have you? Their is a good chance that it could be Augment for the frame or Augments for Another Frame or Concept for a new frame all together. Hello Protea. 

[nslay]

Just now, Ragnafiro said:

My bad, I was trying to test that thing's IQ so I guess I need to stop here, thanks for the notification.

OK, that's not very nice. I think he has a point with the theme issues. Everything else... Well, you just have to let him have his opinion.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 hours ago, (PS4)TrollyThyTrinity said:

You guys haven’t learned yet have you? Their is a good chance that it could be Augment for the frame or Augments for Another Frame or Concept for a new frame all together. Hello Protea. 

Oh right, because Blinding Reave is sooo useful.

all that augment did was help cement the fact that you cant add to flawed abilities and expect that to fix them.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 hours ago, nslay said:

OK, that's not very nice. I think he has a point with the theme issues. You just have to let him have his facts.

Comment fixed.

Also, oh dang bro you getting laugh reacted yourself now. Rev defenders be turning on each other.

Edited February 23, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[nslay]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Comment fixed.

Also, oh dang bro you getting laugh reacted yourself now. Rev defenders be turning on each other.

You have a point with theme discrepancies. However, many of your claims about Revenant are fiction. We've discussed this many times over the year. That doesn't mean that posters should insult your intelligence and I have no problem standing up and pointing out such bad behavior... even if it's you I'm defending!

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

7 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Yeah you know. Until the charges run out and your face ends up splattered on the nearby wall. Revenant can’t stand there and do nothing and survive, he’ll eventually die. Frames like Inaros and Nidus can tank indefinitely.

if you don’t know when a certain hit of a specific damage is going to hit you, how do you know when you’re going to lose a Mesmer charge?

Uh, I just roll for 3ish seconds of invulnerability when I'm around 3 charges and recast. 

Who just stands there and does nothing? 

Edited February 23, 2020 by (XB1)aMichealMeyers

[nslay]

Out of all the Revenant claims Gears makes, these are the things I take away from his frequent critiques (which I think are all valid):

• Revenant is stylized as an Eidolon but with only a couple Eidolon-like abilities.
• Revenant has a very bad passive... it's so bad that everyone only notices the Plains of Eidolon magnetic immunity and not the depleted shields effect.
• Revenant has some contradictory synergies:
  • Overshields serve no purpose when Mesmer Skin is up 100% of the time (how players use Mesmer Skin).
  • His shield depletion passive serves little purpose when Mesmer Skin is up 100% of the time.
  • Danse Macabre can return damage, but Mesmer Skin is up 100% of the time (though someone tested/mentioned that damage is still returned anyway?)
  • Danse Macabre destroys the pillars that Thralls leave behind.
  • In team play, it's hard to use Thralls or Thrall-based synergies.
  • Reave (for killing enemies) is relatively slow to use and situational. That you can do % target health damage is not usually necessary for players that only play short 10 minute missions. In other words, you can kill easy enemies faster in easier ways (like using a weapon? Danse Macabre?).
  • Reave gives allies 1 Mesmer Skin stack when this is not useful.
  • Reave's healing is unnecessary when Mesmer Skin is up 100% of the time (this is not completely true with environmental damage).

I understand that most of these points are picking at dead weight synergies and features. It is important to distinguish between dead weight and functionality... Revenant functions well in almost all content (he's bad at Eidolons and err... so-so to bad-ish at Profit Taker). Revenant still performs despite having so many curious contradictory synergy effects. For example, you can still one-shot enemies with Reave even if Reave unnecessarily heals you or gives allies a single useless Mesmer Skin charge. You can still effectively use Thralls as temporary distractions even if Danse Macabre destroys their death pillars. You can still effectively use Danse Macabre even though it doesn't return damage.

It just goes to show you that even someone so zealous about his dislike of Revenant can make genuine contributions... if you can sort the good bits from the extreme opinions.

Anyway... while it's impossible to argue with him. You shouldn't necessarily dismiss everything he says. Revenant is not perfect after all!

[TheGodofWiFi]

5 hours ago, nslay said:

Anyway... while it's impossible to argue with him. You shouldn't necessarily dismiss everything he says. Revenant is not perfect after all!

No one said Revenant is perfect. I doubt you’ll find anyone saying any particular frame is 100% perfect. However, Revenant is far better than that guy purposely makes him out to be.

People dismiss him because he’s unreasonable, immature and brushes off any opposing views and facts put in front of him. In short, he just wants to fight. He’s ruined previous threads this way.

Whether or not Revenant meets the Eidolon theme is completely subjective as there is justification for the things he can do in the lore.

Those other critiques you have outlined are not his, as yours are reasonable. That guy doesn’t offer genuine critique and instead just calls Revenant garbage in an attempt to just rile people up. You said it yourself; what he posts about Revenant is pure fiction.

Anywho, while Revenant does have some odd synergy issues, they’re not as bad as some other frames and he still works incredibly well in the game. So I completely disagree with the OP saying he needs a rework, especially the one he outlined. Some QoL changes will help with Revenants issues.

[Kaotyke]

1 hour ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Some QoL changes will help with Revenants issues.

One of the issues I have with him is remembering to apply Thrall on enemies effected by Mesmer Skin so I dont waste energy.

Would be better if we were to merge those two powers and make a new 1st?

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Revenant doesn’t take 10k Damage the same way Nezha does. Revenant takes 10k Damage the same way he takes 10 damage. And since that level of damage only comes from a few select enemies that means most of Mesmer Skin is wasted on smaller enemies. While Warding halo only loses a small amount of heath to the smaller enemies and loses the big chunks to the larger sources of damage. And since all those Mesmer charges are being wasted on the smaller enemies that just means you’re more likely to run out before getting hit by a bigger attack while Mesmer is down and get one shot. Nezha atleast gets 1 second of invincibility and an AOE Fire proc to protect him when halo runs out. What does Revenant get? A tank ability that leaves you completely vulnerable for the duration of its cast and none of his abilities help negate that.

I seriously think you have zero idea of how hard to kill the other tank frames are. Maybe do some research and come back when you know what you’re talking about. 

He still effectively tanks the same damage. And I'm not sure what revenant you've played if you run out of charges. It takes minutes on end to actually reach zero, that is if you dont recast it when you are in a safe situation, like whenever there arent mobs around, which is fairly common. And no, Nezha doesnt get a second of invulnerability, that only happens if the attack deals less damage than what is needed to kill him through halo, shield and hp. A risk that increases the lower his halo health goes, it does not work like it does on someone like Hildryn. Revenant gets the ability to recast it and recharge it during combat. Something I much rather take than a mechanic that might fail if I'm unlucky.

Hard to kill yes, but they dont scale infinitely and some require alot of extra modding and/or build up to become tanky. A baseline Rhino is a joke, even when you run a high strength high armor build. Without ironclad charge and shrapnel to let you buff up, build up and recast he has a silly low amount of useful ironskin in "higher" level content. I'm at the point where I'm trying to come up with a good hp+armor+strength build for him, where IS will just fill an "extra" role with zero mods to buff it.

[(PSN)grayscale358]

18 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

His 1/3 synergy is too slow to ever be a practical choice in actual gameplay. Just you your guns or a frame with good DPS.

I made a thing. Taking your point about Danse into comparison too. No guns, because, like, eh, guns are good, always have been. Always will be.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

9 hours ago, nslay said:

You have a point with theme discrepancies. However, many of your claims about Revenant are fiction. We've discussed this many times over the year. That doesn't mean that posters should insult your intelligence and I have no problem standing up and pointing out such bad behavior... even if it's you I'm defending!

Funny because most, of not all of your arguments for Revenant have been complete fiction

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

9 hours ago, (XB1)aMichealMeyers said:

Uh, I just roll for 3ish seconds of invulnerability when I'm around 3 charges and recast. 

Who just stands there and does nothing? 

Oh yeah, because having to waste a mod slot to get basic QoL functions that the better tank frames have innately makes Revenant so much better than them.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

43 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

He still effectively tanks the same damage. And I'm not sure what revenant you've played if you run out of charges. It takes minutes on end to actually reach zero, that is if you dont recast it when you are in a safe situation, like whenever there arent mobs around, which is fairly common. And no, Nezha doesnt get a second of invulnerability, that only happens if the attack deals less damage than what is needed to kill him through halo, shield and hp. A risk that increases the lower his halo health goes, it does not work like it does on someone like Hildryn. Revenant gets the ability to recast it and recharge it during combat. Something I much rather take than a mechanic that might fail if I'm unlucky.

Hard to kill yes, but they dont scale infinitely and some require alot of extra modding and/or build up to become tanky. A baseline Rhino is a joke, even when you run a high strength high armor build. Without ironclad charge and shrapnel to let you buff up, build up and recast he has a silly low amount of useful ironskin in "higher" level content. I'm at the point where I'm trying to come up with a good hp+armor+strength build for him, where IS will just fill an "extra" role with zero mods to buff it.

It takes seconds.

yeah, you know nothing about how good the other tank frames are.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

I made a thing. Taking your point about Danse into comparison too. No guns, because, like, eh, guns are good, always have been. Always will be.

Did you boost Danse. It doesn’t look like you boosted Danse.

also, the Simulcrum is a controlled environment and will give false positives on Reave being good as the enemies always start in the same location.

you also only tested against one enemy. The positive of Danse is it attacks all surrounding enemies while Reave has a very small attack window. Meaning it performs far faster against groups than Reave ever will.

[(PSN)grayscale358]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Did you boost Danse. It doesn’t look like you boosted Danse.

also, the Simulcrum is a controlled environment and will give false positives on Reave being good as the enemies always start in the same location.

you also only tested against one enemy. The positive of Danse is it attacks all surrounding enemies while Reave has a very small attack window. Meaning it performs far faster against groups than Reave ever will.

I boosted Danse. My build isn't top tier and I won't claim it as such. Simulacrum was to get enemies at a decent testing level, 110. I'll go for a classic 8 spawn tomorrow and test that, though I feel like Rev'll get blown up pretty fast.

And Danse is a lot better against groups, I can't argue there. However Reave does have a lot more potential than Danse in damage, because there is a point where Danse will become useless compared to a straight percentile decrease of enemy health. That point is absurdly high however, and if I scanned enough Sentients I'd use them to demonstrate Danse's eventual fall off compared to Reave.

[(PSN)grayscale358]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It takes seconds.

yeah, you know nothing about how good the other tank frames are.

Uhh? My main build has 8 charges and I can maintain them pretty easy... What are you doing?

[nslay]

You gotta test against Gokstad officers! They are far tougher than even Corrupted Bombards. Corrupted Heavy Gunners and Bombards were obsoleted by Railjack enemies for "tough" (bullet sponges).

Edited February 23, 2020 by nslay
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[(PSN)grayscale358]

12 minutes ago, nslay said:

You gotta test against Gokstad officers! They are far tougher than even Corrupted Bombards. Corrupted Heavy Gunners and Bombards were obsoleted by Railjack enemies for "tough" (bullet sponges).

Thanks! I'll see if I can get the scans for em! Though, all I can really say is solo Railjack is going to make that a slow process. The Corrupted gunners and bombards still hold up enough for the point, right?

[nslay]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Thanks! I'll see if I can get the scans for em! Though, all I can really say is solo Railjack is going to make that a slow process. The Corrupted gunners and bombards still hold up enough for the point, right?

Of course! Though Danse Macabre works less well against Railjack enemies.