Revenant Rework, and opinions on it.

[(PSN)grayscale358]

That's in one gamemode... And Garuda's heal totems suffer too... That is an extreme situation then, and doesn't respond to the spawn cap on heavies. Napalms can only fire so fast, and Gunner range is kinda garbo. Just use roll for the 75% dr and get away? That situation, due to the heavy spawn cap, the gamemode it's in, and  just the absurdity of it, is barely going to happen.

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Funny how you’re telling me that I need to learn to play Revenant when I’m telling you to learn how to use self damage weapons. And yet somehow I’m in the wrong.

also, please find a better comeback than “You just don’t know how to use him”. It’s laughable that people like you think that even holds ground anymore.

again, liches are a very small and rather insignificant part of the game, being effective at killing them doesn’t make Revenant better at other content.

 

I can use those weapons, I just happen to prefer them on Rev when I can use them point blank. You obviously need to L2P Rev if you lose near 30 stacks in less that 30sec. You need to learn alot about him if you manage to screw up like that.

Liches may be a small part, but so are Eidolons. Does Chroma and Harrow suck now aswell since their niche is pretty much only hunting?

[Vox_Preliator]

18 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

again, liches are a very small and rather insignificant part of the game, being effective at killing them doesn’t make Revenant better at other content.

"What is Rev's niche, the content in which he is better than all other choices?" 

"This, he is exceedingly effective in this context while requiring next to no investment and is easier to use for it than any other frame." 

"That doesn't count"

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

7 hours ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

That... how... what...? Is Mesmer all you're using? What? That requires either a group of 28 enemies, or a build with the least duration you can manage. Which is a bad idea because Reave, Danse and Enthrall all benefit from duration. What build are you using on Rev? Seriously, I'm curious how you can manage that when you should be constantly moving.

I mean, it’s tank ability, right. I expect it to, you know, tank effectively.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

I can use those weapons, I just happen to prefer them on Rev when I can use them point blank. You obviously need to L2P Rev if you lose near 30 stacks in less that 30sec. You need to learn alot about him if you manage to screw up like that.

Liches may be a small part, but so are Eidolons. Does Chroma and Harrow suck now aswell since their niche is pretty much only hunting?

Chroma and Harrow are usable outside of Eidolon hunts. In fact I actively prefer using Harrow over Trinity if I ever run support.

[(PSN)grayscale358]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I mean, it’s tank ability, right. I expect it to, you know, tank effectively.

What is your build Gears? You've confused me on how you've managed this, and I want to know how to recreate it so I can see how you actually play Rev

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

"What is Rev's niche, the content in which he is better than all other choices?" 

"This, he is exceedingly effective in this context while requiring next to no investment and is easier to use for it than any other frame." 

"That doesn't count"

When a frame has only niches to hold it up and it gets outclassed in normal gameplay, it’s not a good frame. It’s why Nyx is so bad, yeah there’s niches people can find for her, but it’s never practical to bring her into a mission to use those niches.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

What is your build Gears? You've confused me on how you've managed this, and I want to know how to recreate it so I can see how you actually play Rev

High strength, maybe a little duration. Don’t remember off the top of my head.

Also, I don’t play Revenant. The only times I have has been to test these claims you people make.

literally the last time I used him proper was for an arbitration that gave him the 300% boost because I wanted to see what exceedly high Mesmer charges would do for him. The answer was not much.

Edited February 24, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(PSN)grayscale358]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

High strength, maybe a little duration. Don’t remember off the top of my head.

Also, I don’t play Revenant. The only times I have has been to test these claims you people make.

literally the last time I used him proper was for an arbitration that gave him the 300% boost because I wanted to see what exceedly high Mesmer charges would do for him. The answer was not much.

So you critique a frame you don't play?
Alright, quick tip for him if you ever use him, you can ignore strength. Don't lower it, but 100% is enough to be effective. More Mesmer does nothing, Natural talent and Primed flow are better options than more strength to keep Mesmer up. Range is... unnecessary, but helpful at times.

Duration impacts on the mesmer stun, so it's really a good survival tool when combined with a minute long enthrall.

Arbi drones are as good for Rev, as they are for Garuda. They kinda break the frames main method of upkeep for health, energy for Garuda, and high aggro for Rev.

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Chroma and Harrow are usable outside of Eidolon hunts. In fact I actively prefer using Harrow over Trinity if I ever run support.

Useful how? When do you ever need the support that Harrow or even Trinity brings outside of hunts? Never. When do you ever need Chroma outside of hunts? Never. If you want support you are better off with Wisp or Oberon, both being far more offensive frames while bringing what little support you may need. And when would you ever want Vex buff in non-hunt content? It buffs weapon damage, you should already be insta gibbing most thing unless you plan on running really high levels, at which point rhino would still be better due to a universal damage buff.

But since your own statement was that such high level missions are pointless I begin to really question when you'd ever have use for a support frame or chroma.

Edited February 24, 2020 by SneakyErvin

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

Rev has the same issue baruuks has. Hit kit has issues here and there, but the biggest problem is the Amount of anti-synergies and forced synergies that ruin how the frame can be played. Mesmer skin alone (which I think is a good ability mind you) accounts for 4 anti-synergies, thise being his life steal on 3, his damage absorbed in 4, his passive and his bonus shield regen on 1/4 combo. Until these issues are corrected, revenant will always be a meh frame at best

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

Rev has the same issue baruuks has. Hit kit has issues here and there, but the biggest problem is the Amount of anti-synergies and forced synergies that ruin how the frame can be played. Mesmer skin alone (which I think is a good ability mind you) accounts for 4 anti-synergies, thise being his life steal on 3, his damage absorbed in 4, his passive and his bonus shield regen on 1/4 combo. Until these issues are corrected, revenant will always be a meh frame at best

I would honestly not like to see life steal on 1+3 go away. It actually serves a massive purpose on him because it lets you completely ignore health sustain in your build to cover for things that pass through Mesmer Skin and leave him at 2hp minimum. Like patches of fire, self damage and similar things. The rest I agree on because they serve no purpose.

[nslay]

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I would honestly not like to see life steal on 1+3 go away. It actually serves a massive purpose on him because it lets you completely ignore health sustain in your build to cover for things that pass through Mesmer Skin and leave him at 2hp minimum. Like patches of fire, self damage and similar things. The rest I agree on because they serve no purpose.

I was farming Blood for Energy with Rev (Hades, Pluto) and that Corpus capital ship can hurt Revenant through Mesmer Skin (not kill him though). I used Reave to heal a lot (on Enthralled dead Ambulases in fact!). There are more examples of harm through Mesmer Skin elsewhere in the game that Reave's heal is just barely useful.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

So you critique a frame you don't play?
Alright, quick tip for him if you ever use him, you can ignore strength. Don't lower it, but 100% is enough to be effective. More Mesmer does nothing, Natural talent and Primed flow are better options than more strength to keep Mesmer up. Range is... unnecessary, but helpful at times.

Duration impacts on the mesmer stun, so it's really a good survival tool when combined with a minute long enthrall.

Arbi drones are as good for Rev, as they are for Garuda. They kinda break the frames main method of upkeep for health, energy for Garuda, and high aggro for Rev.

I critique a frame I do not enjoy playing as all it does is remind me that it’s the embodiment of wasted potential and bad design. Why would I actively play something I hate?

as for your build suggestions. Literally everybody here tells me “Oh but he can one shot and is unkillable”. In order to reach that one shot you need strength. So I built for strength.

You bringing up natural talent also brings up the point that his cast animations are incredibly slow. You stand still a whole second before Reave is cast, and the same goes for Mesmer skin. Tho Mesmers recast also leaves you vulnerable during the animation. Natural talent should be for abilities that are actually good, but have slow casts. Not abilities that suck and are slow for absolutely zero reason.

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

Rev has the same issue baruuks has. Hit kit has issues here and there, but the biggest problem is the Amount of anti-synergies and forced synergies that ruin how the frame can be played. Mesmer skin alone (which I think is a good ability mind you) accounts for 4 anti-synergies, thise being his life steal on 3, his damage absorbed in 4, his passive and his bonus shield regen on 1/4 combo. Until these issues are corrected, revenant will always be a meh frame at best

At least Baruuk has a semi successful gameplay loop of using his 3 and 2 for tanking and CC and then pulling out his 4 for damage. It’s only semi because his 4 is still pretty weak.

Yeah, his pacifism theme gets in the way and he doesn’t really have ability synergy outside of the garbage 1/3 range increase. But he functions far more smoothly than Revenant.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

56 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

At least Baruuk has a semi successful gameplay loop of using his 3 and 2 for tanking and CC and then pulling out his 4 for damage. It’s only semi because his 4 is still pretty weak.

Yeah, his pacifism theme gets in the way and he doesn’t really have ability synergy outside of the garbage 1/3 range increase. But he functions far more smoothly than Revenant.

True baruuk feels a bit better to play (imo) but the fact remains both have a bunch of anti synergies that ruin their gameplay flow

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Useful how? When do you ever need the support that Harrow or even Trinity brings outside of hunts? Never. When do you ever need Chroma outside of hunts? Never. If you want support you are better off with Wisp or Oberon, both being far more offensive frames while bringing what little support you may need. And when would you ever want Vex buff in non-hunt content? It buffs weapon damage, you should already be insta gibbing most thing unless you plan on running really high levels, at which point rhino would still be better due to a universal damage buff.

But since your own statement was that such high level missions are pointless I begin to really question when you'd ever have use for a support frame or chroma.

Chroma has been a reliable tank and damage dealer for years. Even more so now that Vex armor can be recast.

Harrow provides health, Energy, CC effectively and contrary to what people say you don’t have to fight your team mates all that much to actually get the health and energy. The only thing about him that requires your squad to cooperate is his 4, but it’s only really necessary against higher levels which at that point you’re likely communicating with each other.

I’m not going to say they’re the best choice. But they serve their purpose effectively, unlike Revenant.

Also, there’s a difference between high levels and HIGH levels. I consider level 200 the highest a player should ever really need to go in an endurance run. As most frames can deal with those enemies. You think that just because Revenant can go up to level bajillion makes him good. When the thing he does to do that literally is impractical everywhere else.

[nslay]

On 2020-02-22 at 11:04 PM, nslay said:

Revenant has a very bad passive... it's so bad that everyone only notices the Plains of Eidolon magnetic immunity and not the depleted shields effect.

Note to self: Try Empowered Blades build to intentionally trigger passive?

You'll have to work pretty hard to drain your own shield, but how hilarious would this be if it could be triggered intentionally?

EDIT: Decaying Dragon Key (which should probably always be equipped on Revenant to use his passive more).

And use a self-damage weapon with the Decaying Dragon Key (and shield rechange with -delay recharge effects and overshields!). Yes yes... I like this idea... a masochistic Revenant build that leverages his passive!

Edited February 24, 2020 by nslay

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, nslay said:

I was farming Blood for Energy with Rev (Hades, Pluto) and that Corpus capital ship can hurt Revenant through Mesmer Skin (not kill him though). I used Reave to heal a lot (on Enthralled dead Ambulases in fact!). There are more examples of harm through Mesmer Skin elsewhere in the game that Reave's heal is just barely useful.

Yep. Without heal on reave in those cases we'd be forced to either slap on arcanes (I still run magus repair when I play him cos I'm too lazy to switch it out since we dont have dedicated operator loadout slots), healing on our weapon or rely on pets to bring us back to max. Which would be a waste when a quick ability cast brings us back to full.

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Chroma has been a reliable tank and damage dealer for years. Even more so now that Vex armor can be recast.

Harrow provides health, Energy, CC effectively and contrary to what people say you don’t have to fight your team mates all that much to actually get the health and energy. The only thing about him that requires your squad to cooperate is his 4, but it’s only really necessary against higher levels which at that point you’re likely communicating with each other.

I’m not going to say they’re the best choice. But they serve their purpose effectively, unlike Revenant.

Also, there’s a difference between high levels and HIGH levels. I consider level 200 the highest a player should ever really need to go in an endurance run. As most frames can deal with those enemies. You think that just because Revenant can go up to level bajillion makes him good. When the thing he does to do that literally is impractical everywhere else.

That still doesnt answer my question. Since we really dont need Vex in those parts of the content to have competative damage vs the mobs. He'll still be a weapon frame, so he will be lacking compared to many other, including your hate object Rev that has an AoE clear aswell as reliable options to CC/pull aggro. I cant see a single piece of "regular" content where I'd bring Chroma.

So does Oberon and Wisp, but they are also more durable and can do other things aswell without fighting anyone at all for it. If you are in a group with heavy AoE (which is mostly) Harrow gets few kills. And in content where his survivability is enough, the energy and health leech isnt really worthwhile. Now if they changed it so allies within his area would trigger the effect, then he'd be a great support.

But Rev is a great choice for many things since he's a jack of all trades really. There are modes where he's not worth bringing, but that is the case for every frame, but those modes are also few for him.

And up to 200 his kit serves very well without needing to use 1+3 to kill things. It shines through that you really dont know the frame at all and just blurp out assumptions. He's a solid frame, not the best, not the worst, but can do most content types effectively while being ace at very specific ones. He has all you can ask for in a well rounded frame, CC, good survival tools, movement options, an ever scaling damage ability and a good AoE when needed. His pointless skill syncs are the only things that bother me, mostly his 1+4 syncing.

Edited February 24, 2020 by SneakyErvin

[(PSN)grayscale358]

8 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I critique a frame I do not enjoy playing as all it does is remind me that it’s the embodiment of wasted potential and bad design. Why would I actively play something I hate?

as for your build suggestions. Literally everybody here tells me “Oh but he can one shot and is unkillable”. In order to reach that one shot you need strength. So I built for strength.

You bringing up natural talent also brings up the point that his cast animations are incredibly slow. You stand still a whole second before Reave is cast, and the same goes for Mesmer skin. Tho Mesmers recast also leaves you vulnerable during the animation. Natural talent should be for abilities that are actually good, but have slow casts. Not abilities that suck and are slow for absolutely zero reason.

 

Duration means with a tight circle, if you can pass the enemy through twice with one Reave, they die. You can build for strength, but duration is a lot more powerful on Rev. 

Or Reave and Mesmer Skin are actually really good, but are held back by slow animations. Slap on Natural talent, or even Speed drift, and those abilities are easier to cast.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Chroma has been a reliable tank and damage dealer for years. Even more so now that Vex armor can be recast.

Chroma's theme is broken though. How is he a dragon frame? Since when can dragons let their skin fall off and become a sentry gun? Since when can dragons grow more powerful the more they get shot?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And up to 200 his kit serves very well without needing to use 1+3 to kill things. It shines through that you really dont know the frame at all and just blurp out assumptions. He's a solid frame, not the best, not the worst, but can do most content types effectively while being ace at very specific ones. He has all you can ask for in a well rounded frame, CC, good survival tools, movement options, an ever scaling damage ability and a good AoE when needed. His pointless skill syncs are the only things that bother me, mostly his 1+4 syncing.

Considering I’ve seen the best Danse Macabre can do. No he can’t scale his damage up to level 200.

He’s the exact opposite of well rounded. Enthrall is garbage CC, you’re literally better off killing the enemy, we’ve already been over why Mesmer Skin is the worst tank ability in the game, Reave is nowhere near being considered a good movement ability, it’s cast time already makes it inferior to a bullet jump. Danse is good tho, makes everything else he “offers” redundant because they’re so garbage.

As you said it yourself. If you want actual good Jacks of all trades pick Oberon or Wisp. Tho Danse Macabre is arguably better than Sol Gate because who tf makes a narrow beam attack deal 1 damage instance per second.

Edited February 25, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Duration means with a tight circle, if you can pass the enemy through twice with one Reave, they die. You can build for strength, but duration is a lot more powerful on Rev. 

Or Reave and Mesmer Skin are actually really good, but are held back by slow animations. Slap on Natural talent, or even Speed drift, and those abilities are easier to cast.

Why do I have to waste time trying to hit an enemy with an ability twice to kill them when I can kill them and every enemy around this with a press of the right trigger?

Again, the fact that it’s considered mandatory for Revenant to use Natural talent just adds to the list of bad things about him. We shouldn’t have to sacrifice a mod slot because DE forgot to speed up the animations. That’s just bad design.

Edited February 25, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(PSN)grayscale358]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Why do I have to waste time trying to hit an enemy with an ability twice to kill them when I can kill them and every enemy around this with a press of the right trigger?

Again, the fact that it’s considered mandatory for Revenant to use Natural talent just adds to the list of bad things about him. We shouldn’t have to sacrifice a mod slot because DE forgot to speed up the animations. That’s just bad design.

It's not mandatory. It's optional. I don't use natural talent, as I've worked out how to deal with slow cast times. Obviously you haven't, because if slow animations are an issue, that other frames suffer too.

Danse is in no way his best ability if you actually know what you're doing. It's a panic button. Reave + Enthrall is 100x better at scaling damage, because 50% health reduction is, you know, a guaranteed 2 shot on anything

And I love how you ignored my point on Chroma, and how he fails to match his theme as well. That'd mean you'd hate Chroma by your own logic

Edited February 25, 2020 by (PS4)reidy35

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

It's not mandatory. It's optional. I don't use natural talent, as I've worked out how to deal with slow cast times. Obviously you haven't, because if slow animations are an issue, that other frames suffer too.

Danse is in no way his best ability if you actually know what you're doing. It's a panic button. Reave + Enthrall is 100x better at scaling damage, because 50% health reduction is, you know, a guaranteed 2 shot on anything

And I love how you ignored my point on Chroma, and how he fails to match his theme as well.

Kill every enemy around you in a matter of seconds, of fumble around just to kill 7 at a time.

How is Danse his worst ability again? 
 

I don’t care about Chroma, because dragons aren’t an established faction in Warframe. Eidolons are. So if you make an Eidolon frame then it shouldn’t be f***ing vampire themed.

Edited February 25, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(PSN)grayscale358]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Kill every enemy around you in a matter of seconds, of fumble around just to kill 7 at a time.

How is Danse his worst ability again? 

Because there's going to be a point where danse falls off in ttk compared to reave + enthrall, which always has the same speed, no matter the enemy, no matter the level.