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Remove "Friendship Doors"


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1 hour ago, IceColdHawk said:

Just because they add a little bit of diversity and replayability doesn't mean they don't intend the missions to be rushed. 

Ahhh but that's why they also included those friendship doors, so that people who weren't already convinced would be able to figure it out, you see? 

It's okay. Take your time to think it through. We won't rush you. Get it "won't rush you"? Get it? 

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24 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Ahhh but that's why they also included those friendship doors, so that people who weren't already convinced would be able to figure it out, you see? 

It's okay. Take your time to think it through. We won't rush you. Get it "won't rush you"? Get it? 

Right back at ya... 

18 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

That made sense to you when you wrote it out? Really? 

Wondering, because I'm legit curious. Do people always leave you behind or what happens that you get so defensive and snarky over a small thing like friendship doors? And before you ask "Yo then what are you doing?" well I simply want a better game play AND coop experience so I'm voicing my feedback on how to improve it.

The problem is not that slow players exist, I'm never expecting to always get matched with gods in public. But the problem is how these doors make the whole experience worse more than good. Like I've also explained in a previous post for when people actually want to cooperate for once and take individual tasks only to get stopped by such a door. It can also toxicate things like when 1 guy gets annoyed cuz he has to wait and the other feels like he's making someone wait for him thus feeling guilty.

Im not always the rusher and when I'm not and I see someone has to wait because of me I always feel sorry and sad that these ancient relics still exist in this game.

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59 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Right back at ya... 

Wondering, because I'm legit curious. Do people always leave you behind or what happens that you get so defensive and snarky over a small thing like friendship doors? And before you ask "Yo then what are you doing?" well I simply want a better game play AND coop experience so I'm voicing my feedback on how to improve it.

The problem is not that slow players exist, I'm never expecting to always get matched with gods in public. But the problem is how these doors make the whole experience worse more than good. Like I've also explained in a previous post for when people actually want to cooperate for once and take individual tasks only to get stopped by such a door. It can also toxicate things like when 1 guy gets annoyed cuz he has to wait and the other feels like he's making someone wait for him thus feeling guilty.

Im not always the rusher and when I'm not and I see someone has to wait because of me I always feel sorry and sad that these ancient relics still exist in this game.

Nah mate it's just that what you wrote there is nonsense because it's a non sequitor. 

21 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

If DE DIDN'T want missions to be done asap, they wouldn't make things so grindy or give items super low drop chances. 

See? The one literally does not follow from the other. Hence:

19 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

That made sense to you when you wrote it out? Really? 

Because it doesn't. Especially with the examples given that encourage us to search as much of the level as possible. 

 

And no I'm just a really snarky type of guy. Yeah it's worse when I see people acting all entitled and demanding to be allowed to abandon their teammates so they can afk at extraction. Which is literally happening on this thread. 

 

While I do sympathise with you over that one specific example of what you went through, it seems to me that you ran into a situation where you had a strategic plan that needed to change when it faced the situational realities. That happens.

Now the next question becomes, if they hadn't encountered the door, and rushed to the end... And you were still way off in the distance poking your head into the corners for the caches, and statues and other assorted cruft... Wouldn't they still have had to wait for you to eventually catch up? 

 

Also I want you to think about the number of people who have complained about people who just rushing the whole time. I want you to think about the number of people especially newbs not familiar with the tilesets, who have said that they like to go at a slightly more sedate pace, collecting the drops. I want you to think about the nightwave challenges that are clearly designed to remind people who are so resource rich at this point, that lockers, containers, mods, resources, statues and stars, and yes even credits are a thing. 

How do you not see all of the bright neon signs that are trying to remind us that there are reasons to maybe go just a tad bit slower? The doors are a part of that. 

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Agree with OP, these doors should be removed entirely, or replaced with a door that can be opened alone (a hackable door like those outside spy vaults etc.)

I farm a lot of pub Kuva siphons and floods, and the most efficient way of doing those missions is to

1. Rush through the map and find the siphon as fast as possible while completing mission objectives along the way if applicable. This is because the kuva clouds only spawn when the siphon is found, and they spawn at a fixed rate. Even without missing any clouds, the siphon will take about 2 minutes to complete after discovery.

2. While the siphon is going on, someone can go and complete the rest of the mission. If things go well, the kuva team can go straight to extraction after the siphon ends. Win win for everyone, we all get our kuva quickly.

Step 2 is where these doors complicate matters, since it precludes being able to complete the mission alone (assuming friendship doors spawn after the siphon)

Back when the operator trick worked, friendship doors weren't an issue solo, and I have never had anyone complaining about the mission being completed too fast. In fact, the doors are more of a nuisance now after the trick has been fixed than a test of cooperation, since it means someone has to leave the siphon to go help the guy opening the door.

I think friendship doors are a relic of old game design that should be removed or updated. They are not "essential" to Warframe's coop gameplay in any way. Consider the fact that these doors are absent in all endless missions, open world missions, capture, mobile defense, spy and hijack. Friendship doors are also missing from entire tile sets (with the exception of rescue, although even Lua's rescue has a hackable door instead of a friendship door outside the cell block) regardless of mission type, such as Orokin Void, Orokin Moon, Orokin Derelict, Corpus Ice Planet, Grineer Sealab, Grineer Asteroid Fortress and Grineer Forest. There are probably more mission nodes without friendship doors on the starchart than those that do.

The recent devstream has shown DE reconsidering their stances and rehauling systems that have been in game for a long time such as self damage, armor scaling, excavator health etc. I think it's time for friendship doors to get the same treatment now.

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4 minutes ago, limernest said:

2. While the siphon is going on, someone can go and complete the rest of the mission. If things go well, the kuva team can go straight to extraction after the siphon ends. Win win for everyone, we all get our kuva quickly.

I posted an example before about how these doors become a hindrance to cooperative play when different members of the team are simultaneously tackling different objectives within a mission and this is another great example. 

Some people seem to have missed the fact that "I have to wait for the slow guy" isn't the only complaint about these doors!

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I think they should make a better matchmaking system overall, and also set a proper progress rank, besides the mastery, there's no distinction between a rank 9 and a rank 25 whatsoever, maybe adding some numbers like the average points you get for completing a mission, like how long does it take to finish a rescue, spy, defence, etc., how much damage dealt and taken, how many times you died, and so on.

And i don't mean to discriminate or distinguish high ranks above lower or anything, but there's certainly a big gap between how much fun can a squad of 9 ranks get and a squad of let's say one 25, another 18 and two ranking 5 or whatever, most of the time i feel guilty using my Saryn just for the sake of doing things fast and speedrun the feck off everything, and then sometimes i get salty over a rank 9 being so slow on a rescue Incursion mission, sticking the operative into the legs and causing his/her death, while i'm there sitting on extraction.

 

 

Edited by lukasystem
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Your perspective on this will depend on your definition of "cooperation". I think the intent of "cooperation" is to lighten the burden on all involved, and based on that, these doors fail on nearly all counts. In most cases, they serve to force the squad closer in proximity, almost never closer in purpose. Holding cell doors are an exception. I don't think holding back the faster, more experienced veterans can be expected to inspire any kind of genuine teamwork -- just begrudging compliance on the part of the restrained, and possibly a sense of anxiety and guilt in many of those receiving this "affirmative action". This isn't lightening anyone's load, just shifting more of it onto the patience of whoever's waiting.

For things like Kuva Siphons with multiple objectives -- things that benefit from true cooperation, from separating and allocating tasks to actually save time and effort for the whole squad -- the doors aren't anything but an active deterrent. Many times I've joined a single player and been asked, or taken the initiative, to split up and cut the mission in half... except I crash into a "friendship" door, decide to go back the two or three or whatever hundred meters to the siphon so I'm not sitting around doing nothing, by which time my friend has already finished and I get to run all the way back with him. Once I joined a Kuva Rescue with a full squad of MR20+ players. They stopped at the siphon, and I broke off to the objective and hit one of these doors about 100m away. I hit the panel, waypointed an Ayatan in the corner for good measure, and waited. These guys are high MR, they'll help me out, right? Two of them beelined over, grabbed the statue, and promptly left. I asked for a hand in chat. Nothing. I clung to hope and waited there for a good few minutes, during which time this team managed to grab one cloud of kuva. Finally I went back, captured the remaining three, and sat down at the door while the squad opened it at last, thanking me in chat with "Wow, you're kind of a d!ck." Real light workload and spirit of teamwork that day.

If you're content with the illusion of cooperation, I think you're wrong, but I guess I can understand why you like these doors. Truth is, there's really not much in the game that favors genuine teamwork over four guys just running around in the same instance, and for the few things that do, "friendship" doors are just an unnecessary hindrance.

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